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2020-21 Performances


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6.0 Season Average Rating
Appearances
42
Goals
6
Assists
6
Yellow cards
9
Status
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Didn't score, didn't assist, didn't make 16 tackles whilst simultaneously not being right next to the striker to put a goal on plate

It's funny he came on, barely lost the ball, and moved it faster than anyone did in the game which is supposedly what many here want from him.

Yeah, it's obvious now that no matter how he does it'll never be good enough.
 
It's funny he came on, barely lost the ball, and moved it faster than anyone did in the game which is supposedly what many here want from him.

Yeah, it's obvious now that no matter how he does it'll never be good enough.
Nail on the head.
If he doesn't score or assist it automatically means he's not contributed according to the caf.
 
He looks heavier and slower than usual.

I am hoping it is just the injury last season, poor prep for this with covid and not a natural Rooney style thickening. You see the problem with heavier Pogba with the amount of balls he loses in one v one battles, he is much easier to take the ball from than 2-3 years ago.
 
From MEN
"When you've got good players it's a nice challenge and a decision to make when you've got good players on the bench that can come on and impact the game," Solskjaer said. "I think Paul, all three games this week, he's really come on and made a very positive impact.
"He's been out for a while with coronavirus this summer, so he's getting better and better and maybe more his shape. Maybe I was unfair to him starting him that early in the first few games but he's coming on and he's done great when he's come on."
 
I didn't think much of him after he came on. He was better when shifted back next to Fred.
I just dont think he knows how to find space or get invovled playing as a 10. Doesn't know what runs to make, doesn't know how to find the passes needed with that little space. Think he drifts through games as a 10 and can be a bit anonymous and it winds up isolating our forwards. The few times we got our forwards involved it was a long pass from our own half for them to chase amongst a packed defence. I cant comment much on Cavani because he didn't really get a touch till Greenwood came on and Bruno was back at 10.
He played well on the left of a midfield 3 against PSG and i think thats his one and only position. Someone mentioned him being good when Solskjaer first took over and my memory of that was he was playing on the left of a midfield 3 initially before being shifted up to 10 and being anonymous before being sent off in the first leg against PSG that year.
 
Nail on the head.
If he doesn't score or assist it automatically means he's not contributed according to the caf.

An assist isnt even good enough. He assisted against PSG and played very well after he came on but it still wasnt good enough. Some even tried to argue that he wasnt good because he lost a ball. Yesterday Bruno and Fred were losing the ball at their own half... when Pogba does that the knifes will be out.

It is sad how media and some people who dislike him made the narrative that he isnt a positive asset to Manchester United. Add some easy catchphrases and terms like 'no heart', 'one trick pony' and 'virus' and now there is a large part of the fanbase shouting 'Pogba out!'

Yesterday he came on and did okay. Nothing special but still likely the best midfielder on the pitch.
 
I didn't think much of him after he came on. He was better when shifted back next to Fred.
I just dont think he knows how to find space or get invovled playing as a 10. Doesn't know what runs to make, doesn't know how to find the passes needed with that little space. Think he drifts through games as a 10 and can be a bit anonymous and it winds up isolating our forwards. The few times we got our forwards involved it was a long pass from our own half for them to chase amongst a packed defence. I cant comment much on Cavani because he didn't really get a touch till Greenwood came on and Bruno was back at 10.
He played well on the left of a midfield 3 against PSG and i think thats his one and only position. Someone mentioned him being good when Solskjaer first took over and my memory of that was he was playing on the left of a midfield 3 initially before being shifted up to 10 and being anonymous before being sent off in the first leg against PSG that year.

I fully agree with you but for some reason many thinks that he was playing as a 10 during Ole's first months when to me he was clearly playing as a CM in a midfield three with Herrera on the right and Matic as a DM, he was making runs from deep which he is good at. As a 10 he doesn't see the field, doesn't anticipate well and is easily handled by simply pressing him soon which is easier to do in the crowded areas a 10 is supposed to operate in.
 
Looks to be in suboptimal form and condition, and mentally hindered somewhat, somehow. Probably by torrential rain in the case of last night.

He's a weird one atm. Easy to accept both the criticisms and praise like many of our players, but what happened to that dynamic, powerful player? It's like we tried to turn him into latter-day Scholes and everything but the vision for long crossfield passes has largely disappeared. He brings obvious positive qualities to the team but is lacking in immediacy and intensity. The game last night showed he's up for moving the ball on quickly and incisively, but will still often choose to hold the ball and run around a bit, slowing it down. I'm sure there are times that inviting pressure is a good thing, but it's basically his weak point so it's frustrating.

He doesn't seem at the races enough to warrant making him foundational at all yet, and I like the way he's being used currently in consideration of that. It shows they're working on ways to get him in there and get the best out of him. I'm probably closer to the faction that consider him problematic, but I'd love to see that supremely elegant Rhinoceros again. Where is it?
 
An assist isnt even good enough. He assisted against PSG and played very well after he came on but it still wasnt good enough. Some even tried to argue that he wasnt good because he lost a ball. Yesterday Bruno and Fred were losing the ball at their own half... when Pogba does that the knifes will be out.

It is sad how media and some people who dislike him made the narrative that he isnt a positive asset to Manchester United. Add some easy catchphrases and terms like 'no heart', 'one trick pony' and 'virus' and now there is a large part of the fanbase shouting 'Pogba out!'

Yesterday he came on and did okay. Nothing special but still likely the best midfielder on the pitch.

Pogbas career at United isnt about a few sub appearances this season. He was ok yesterday. just about. But he didnt change the game or give the team a new dimension or impetus and I am sorry but he should be doing that as a supposedly world class player. He rarely does. He is mostly ok. Only ok. Never really more than ok. If United want to win titles and CLs the players need to be more than ok.
 
When Arrigo Sacchi said that Steven Gerrard was “a good footballer but not a good player” he was a bit harsh. He should have saved it for Pogba...
 
When Arrigo Sacchi said that Steven Gerrard was “a good footballer but not a good player” he was a bit harsh. He should have saved it for Pogba...

Thing is that Gerrard would be perfect for the modern 4-3-3 systems playing in the 8 position. He’d be the ultimate player for Klopp in that system because he has all the drive and work rate for the position but much more quality than you generally see in players with that work rate.
 
Thing is that Gerrard would be perfect for the modern 4-3-3 systems playing in the 8 position. He’d be the ultimate player for Klopp in that system because he has all the drive and work rate for the position but much more quality than you generally see in players with that work rate.

Agreed. The most forward of the mid three would be his ideal role. Would probably turn out like an inferior de bruyne - but still very good.
 
There is very little chance he becomes a regular starter in midfield for us IMO. At this point I'd say van de Beek is in the same place as Pogba, although it could go either way as we are yet to see VdB in midfield. We know what Pogba offers though, and what he lacks.
 
maybe not but he’d have been on for James and that would have meant starting a midfield 6? Massive Overkill. He’s the most expensive central midfielder ever but 2 hard workers have displaced him. Unless he at least matches their effort he’s out of the team for now.

No, it would have meant replacing Mata. Ole always play with at least one runner/dribbler on the wing. In yesterday's case, whether people agreed or not, it was Dan James.

As for the most expensive midfielder, I wish people would stop talking about that now. That's gone! Was he worth that? Who knows? What I do know is that we obviously felt he was worth it at the time, as we spent that on him.

Now, with regards to Pogba matching the effort of McTominay and Fred, that's just not going to happen. He's just not that type of player. We'd see the same from VdB if we played him there, too. They just don't share the same defensive qualities. Similarly, Fred and McTominay haven't got the same attacking qualities as Pigba and VdB.

Going forward, Ole need's to keep the same base, along with Matic, and use Pogba further forward when he can. The only time we should see him deep is if we are pushing to get a goal.
 
There is very little chance he becomes a regular starter in midfield for us IMO. At this point I'd say van de Beek is in the same place as Pogba, although it could go either way as we are yet to see VdB in midfield. We know what Pogba offers though, and what he lacks.
If we continue to play McT and Fred as starters we will suffer as a result creatively and in controlling possession and it it will catch up to our performances and results. Pogba or at the very least VDB will become regular starters.
 
You lot are out of your minds. He was excellent when he came on; offered more creativity and composure on the ball than anyone else up until that point. To criticise him after that just blatantly exposes your own agendas.

What agenda? I’m a huge fan of Pogba and have made that clear for a long time. He wasn’t excellent when he came on, though. Not even close. He was barely involved when he came on and I know he’s significantly better than that.
 
No, it would have meant replacing Mata. Ole always play with at least one runner/dribbler on the wing. In yesterday's case, whether people agreed or not, it was Dan James.

As for the most expensive midfielder, I wish people would stop talking about that now. That's gone! Was he worth that? Who knows? What I do know is that we obviously felt he was worth it at the time, as we spent that on him.

Now, with regards to Pogba matching the effort of McTominay and Fred, that's just not going to happen. He's just not that type of player. We'd see the same from VdB if we played him there, too. They just don't share the same defensive qualities. Similarly, Fred and McTominay haven't got the same attacking qualities as Pigba and VdB.

Going forward, Ole need's to keep the same base, along with Matic, and use Pogba further forward when he can. The only time we should see him deep is if we are pushing to get a goal.

If McT and Fred are much better at the defensive and work rate side of things and Bruno provides more attacking output and works a hell of a lot harder? Then Pogba is becoming redundant and it’s his own fault for going around acting like he’s indispensable and world class while phoning in his performances for a year now. Hopefully he’s gone soon and we can reinvest in someone who actually plays on the left or whatever position we try and shoehorn him into next. I think VDB will provide a really nice mixture of composure on the ball and graft once he’s given a run. He’s a hard worker supposedly. I’m actually a fan of Pogba but he’s not what we need anymore. The money could actually be used better on other areas of the squad. A proper potential world class DM would be amazing
 
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I feel like If we started with Pogba yesterday we would have conceded.
Had we started him instead of James, we would have scored 100%. Had we started Paul &Cavani over Mata&James , we have scored goals (then you could sub them off for your James and Mata if you like). There was nothing special with that back 3 of Azpi -Thiago at 36 - Zouma yesterday (so much naivete shown by OGS yesterday).
 
If we continue to play McT and Fred as starters we will suffer as a result creatively and in controlling possession and it it will catch up to our performances and results. Pogba or at the very least VDB will become regular starters.
If we continue to play Fred-McTominay in midfield, we will see how they perform with proper attackers up front. Then, if we don't perform as a team, I will start to worry.

Pogba started this season in 3 games in midfield:
  • against Crystal Palace with McTominay (lost 1-3) + Martial&Rashford up front
  • against Brighton with Matic (luckily won 3-2) + Martial&Rashford&Greenwood up front
  • against Tottenham with Matic (lost 1-6) Martial&Rashford&Greenwood up front
Total tally: 11 goals conceded, 5 scored with possibly best attacking players playing upfront

Games this season Pogba didn't play:
  • against Luton in EFL, won 3-0 (Matic-Fred midfield) + Ighalo, Lingard, Mata and vdB
  • against Brighton in EFL, won 3-0 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Ighalo, James, Mata and vdB
  • against Newcastle, won 4-1 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata (own goal conceded)
  • against PSG, won 2-1 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata (own goal conceded)
  • against Chelsea 0-0, (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata
Total tally: 2 goals conceded (both own goals), 12 goals scored with much worse attackers available in all games

How can anyone think lack of Pogba in starting XI in midfield is a problem is beyond me.
 
If McT and Fred are much better at the defensive and work rate side of things and Bruno provides more attacking output and works a hell of a lot harder? Then Pogba is becoming redundant and it’s his own fault for going around acting like he’s indispensable and world class while phoning in his performances for a year now. Hopefully he’s gone soon and we can reinvest in someone who actually plays on the left or whatever position we try and shoehorn him into next. I think VDB will provide a really nice mixture of composure on the ball and graft once he’s given a run. He’s a hard worker supposedly. I’m actually a fan of Pogba but he’s not what we need anymore. The money could actually be used better on other areas of the squad. A proper potential world class DM would be amazing

I tend to agree. I love Pogba, but with Bruno here and Ole looking like he has become tired of playing Pogba deep, then as you said, he'll obviously become surplus. From Pogba's point of view, however, he'd probably have liked to consistently play further forward for us since his arrival at United. After all, that's where he did play for Juventus.
 
If we continue to play Fred-McTominay in midfield, we will see how they perform with proper attackers up front. Then, if we don't perform as a team, I will start to worry.

Pogba started this season in 3 games in midfield:
  • against Crystal Palace with McTominay (lost 1-3) + Martial&Rashford up front
  • against Brighton with Matic (luckily won 3-2) + Martial&Rashford&Greenwood up front
  • against Tottenham with Matic (lost 1-6) Martial&Rashford&Greenwood up front
Total tally: 11 goals conceded, 5 scored with possibly best attacking players playing upfront

Games this season Pogba didn't play:
  • against Luton in EFL, won 3-0 (Matic-Fred midfield) + Ighalo, Lingard, Mata and vdB
  • against Brighton in EFL, won 3-0 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Ighalo, James, Mata and vdB
  • against Newcastle, won 4-1 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata (own goal conceded)
  • against PSG, won 2-1 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata (own goal conceded)
  • against Chelsea 0-0, (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata
Total tally: 2 goals conceded (both own goals), 12 goals scored with much worse attackers available in all games

How can anyone think lack of Pogba in starting XI in midfield is a problem is beyond me.

We were drawing against PSG and Newcastle and narrowly winning against Brighton before Pogba was introduced, but I get your point. McTominay and Fred at the base is the way to go, especially for this season. We need to add a defensive midfielder next season.
 
If we continue to play Fred-McTominay in midfield, we will see how they perform with proper attackers up front. Then, if we don't perform as a team, I will start to worry.

Pogba started this season in 3 games in midfield:
  • against Crystal Palace with McTominay (lost 1-3) + Martial&Rashford up front
  • against Brighton with Matic (luckily won 3-2) + Martial&Rashford&Greenwood up front
  • against Tottenham with Matic (lost 1-6) Martial&Rashford&Greenwood up front
Total tally: 11 goals conceded, 5 scored with possibly best attacking players playing upfront

Games this season Pogba didn't play:
  • against Luton in EFL, won 3-0 (Matic-Fred midfield) + Ighalo, Lingard, Mata and vdB
  • against Brighton in EFL, won 3-0 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Ighalo, James, Mata and vdB
  • against Newcastle, won 4-1 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata (own goal conceded)
  • against PSG, won 2-1 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata (own goal conceded)
  • against Chelsea 0-0, (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata
Total tally: 2 goals conceded (both own goals), 12 goals scored with much worse attackers available in all games

How can anyone think lack of Pogba in starting XI in midfield is a problem is beyond me.

How many of those goals were scored with Pogba on the pitch?
 
If we continue to play Fred-McTominay in midfield, we will see how they perform with proper attackers up front. Then, if we don't perform as a team, I will start to worry.

Pogba started this season in 3 games in midfield:
  • against Crystal Palace with McTominay (lost 1-3) + Martial&Rashford up front
  • against Brighton with Matic (luckily won 3-2) + Martial&Rashford&Greenwood up front
  • against Tottenham with Matic (lost 1-6) Martial&Rashford&Greenwood up front
Total tally: 11 goals conceded, 5 scored with possibly best attacking players playing upfront

Games this season Pogba didn't play:
  • against Luton in EFL, won 3-0 (Matic-Fred midfield) + Ighalo, Lingard, Mata and vdB
  • against Brighton in EFL, won 3-0 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Ighalo, James, Mata and vdB
  • against Newcastle, won 4-1 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata (own goal conceded)
  • against PSG, won 2-1 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata (own goal conceded)
  • against Chelsea 0-0, (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata
Total tally: 2 goals conceded (both own goals), 12 goals scored with much worse attackers available in all games

How can anyone think lack of Pogba in starting XI in midfield is a problem is beyond me.
1. Because you are pretending that the first 3 games Paul was not coming back from Covid that he was ready to play
2. Because you are pretending that Paul did not change the games against Newcastle and PSG as both games were tied 1-1 until he came on.
3. Because you are pretending that we should not have been down 0-1 against Chelsea and pretending that picking Pogba over James would not have made any difference
 
If we continue to play Fred-McTominay in midfield, we will see how they perform with proper attackers up front. Then, if we don't perform as a team, I will start to worry.

Pogba started this season in 3 games in midfield:
  • against Crystal Palace with McTominay (lost 1-3) + Martial&Rashford up front
  • against Brighton with Matic (luckily won 3-2) + Martial&Rashford&Greenwood up front
  • against Tottenham with Matic (lost 1-6) Martial&Rashford&Greenwood up front
Total tally: 11 goals conceded, 5 scored with possibly best attacking players playing upfront

Games this season Pogba didn't play:
  • against Luton in EFL, won 3-0 (Matic-Fred midfield) + Ighalo, Lingard, Mata and vdB
  • against Brighton in EFL, won 3-0 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Ighalo, James, Mata and vdB
  • against Newcastle, won 4-1 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata (own goal conceded)
  • against PSG, won 2-1 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata (own goal conceded)
  • against Chelsea 0-0, (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata
Total tally: 2 goals conceded (both own goals), 12 goals scored with much worse attackers available in all games

How can anyone think lack of Pogba in starting XI in midfield is a problem is beyond me.
And this is exactly why every reasonable football fan takes such stats with a pinch of salt. There are dozens of factors besides Paul featuring or not featuring in starting XI.

You can manipulate data out of the context and create fictional narrative to suit your agenda, but anyone who actually watches United matches knows the truth.

In-form and properly tactically deployed Pogba is on another level compared to anyone else in the squad, and by omitting him we're only sabotaging the team for no reason other than incompetence.
 
1. Because you are pretending that the first 3 games Paul was not coming back from Covid that he was ready to play
Yeah, so he shouldn't play, but still doesn't change much.

2. Because you are pretending that Paul did not change the games against Newcastle and PSG as both games were tied 1-1 until he came on.
How do you mean change? He did couple of things right, the pass to Rashford when he pulled a worldie being his best move. He's much better as a sub though.

3. Because you are pretending that we should not have been down 0-1 against Chelsea and pretending that picking Pogba over James would not have made any difference
We don't know that. For what it's worth I'd pick Pogba over James.
 
I am hoping it is just the injury last season, poor prep for this with covid and not a natural Rooney style thickening. You see the problem with heavier Pogba with the amount of balls he loses in one v one battles, he is much easier to take the ball from than 2-3 years ago.
Think it's covid. I had it a while ago and I found it quite hard to get back in shape, like my lungs were a bit tired.
 
There is very little chance he becomes a regular starter in midfield for us IMO. At this point I'd say van de Beek is in the same place as Pogba, although it could go either way as we are yet to see VdB in midfield. We know what Pogba offers though, and what he lacks.
My genuine feeling on VDB is that the gap in intensity between the Eridivisie and Premier League might be showing in training. As an AM, it's not too bad and can be hidden, but as a CM, it could lose us games. Imagine if it were VDB in Pogba's spot in the first three games, his confidence may have been skewered before his career even got going. I'll give Ole the benefit of the doubt there.
 
We should put all of Pogba, Bruno, Martial/Rashford and Telles/Shaw on the left side. It would be deadly. Against the top teams we should change to 352.

-------------Martial-----Cavani-----------------
Bruno-------------------------------------VDB
--------------Pogba---------Fred-----------------
Telles---Lindelöf------Tuanzebe----AWB
-------------------------DDG-------------------------
 
And this is exactly why every reasonable football fan takes such stats with a pinch of salt. There are dozens of factors besides Paul featuring or not featuring in starting XI.

You can manipulate data out of the context and create fictional narrative to suit your agenda, but anyone who actually watches United matches knows the truth.
What is the truth then?

Based on this season stats, are we a better team with Pogba or without him in starting XI?

Have you seen something that I don't see? Please show me how I manipulated the data.

In-form and properly tactically deployed Pogba is on another level compared to anyone else in the squad, and by omitting him we're only sabotaging the team for no reason other than incompetence.
So would you agree if he's out of form and not able to play in his best position (because Bruno is occupying that role, and rightly so), Ole is right to put him on the bench?

These "he's the only world class player in our squad" posts are tiring.
 
I am his biggest critic, I dont want him to stay, hes a nightmare to fit in, we have largely underachieved because of him the last few years but....ever since Ole starter using him as a super sub, hes been spectacular!
I am willing to give him another chance if he will play exclusively at AM, meaning we need to play 4-2-2-2 to accommodate him.
He is not to blame for yesterday. I think hes been playing amazingly well last few games.
 
Games this season Pogba didn't play:
  • against Luton in EFL, won 3-0 (Matic-Fred midfield) + Ighalo, Lingard, Mata and vdB
  • against Brighton in EFL, won 3-0 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Ighalo, James, Mata and vdB
  • against Newcastle, won 4-1 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata (own goal conceded)
  • against PSG, won 2-1 (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata (own goal conceded)
  • against Chelsea 0-0, (McTominay-Fred midfield) + Rashford, James and Mata
Total tally: 2 goals conceded (both own goals), 12 goals scored with much worse attackers available in all games

How can anyone think lack of Pogba in starting XI in midfield is a problem is beyond me.
And just as easily:
  • Luton in EFL - an average performance against a second string Championship team. Scored a penalty and two late goals by substitutes.
  • Brighton in EFL - a second string lower PL team
  • Newcastle - drawing before Pogba came on
  • PSG - drawing before Pogba came on
  • Chelsea - devoid of creativity (both before and after any changes)
PSG aside, where bringing on Pogab made an impact, your examples of where Pogba didn't play are hardly examples of great performances.
 
And just as easily:
  • Luton in EFL - an average performance against a second string Championship team. Scored a penalty and two late goals by substitutes.
  • Brighton in EFL - a second string lower PL team
  • Newcastle - drawing before Pogba came on
  • PSG - drawing before Pogba came on
  • Chelsea - devoid of creativity (both before and after any changes)
PSG aside, where bringing on Pogab made an impact, your examples of where Pogba didn't play are hardly examples of great performances.

And 6 of the 12 goals were scored with him on the pitch.
 
And just as easily:
  • Luton in EFL - an average performance against a second string Championship team. Scored a penalty and two late goals by substitutes.
  • Brighton in EFL - a second string lower PL team
  • Newcastle - drawing before Pogba came on
  • PSG - drawing before Pogba came on
  • Chelsea - devoid of creativity (both before and after any changes)
PSG aside, where bringing on Pogab made an impact, your examples of where Pogba didn't play are hardly examples of great performances.
Firstly, you're trying to downplay stats I shown you which indicate we're better off starting without Pogba, and the point still stands.

Secondly, they were not great performances as you say. But biggest worry between United fans is that "overly defensive" midfield without Pogba starting will be struggling against weaker sides, which is clearly not the case so far.

Thirdly, my main argument is that Fred-McTominay midfield is a good base for attacking players to perform, and I don't want to disrupt that balance because "Pogba has to play". If he brings something other players don't, he will play. For now, he should remain on the bench as a sub option and I don't see how you would argue that.
Van de Beek had similar impact on the team as Pogba so far, maybe he should get the chance first until Pogba is fully fit after Covid.

And 6 of the 12 goals were scored with him on the pitch.
And that's a good example why he is a very good impact sub.
 
And 6 of the 12 goals were scored with him on the pitch.

I think it’s a bit romantic to attribute those goals to him. Against Newcastle we were on top all game and he didn’t touch the ball a single time in any of the three goals we scored when he was on the pitch. He‘s been mostly pretty good when he’s come on but let’s be realistic about his impact.
 
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