[Dan_F]

Faded badly throughout the game. Almost the reverse of McTominay.

 

[Marwood]

In my opinion yes, comfortably so. He gives it away sometimes like any player, but he actually can also be progressive on the ball. A few times he won it back and got away from his man.

I didn't see anything on the ball tonight that was beyond basic. Maybe one pass with outside of his right foot.

Everything else Fred could do.

 

[westmeath]

Very poor all night. Made look even worse by McTominay’s “coming of age” display.

 

[Marwood]

So am I to be led to believe that we were played through tonight and missed Fred’s superior pressing and tackling?

Fred’s off the ball work was irrelevant, Pogba didn’t let us down in that department tonight. He did his bit. But he obviously didn’t have much impact going forward. I don’t think he really tried to. He was mainly circulating it. He’s obviously capable of doing more offensively, but to me, he looked like he was trying to play responsibly, which ultimately just made his game boring to me. Think he was more concerned with not making mistakes and keeping his position, doing his defensive duties etc than impacting the game going forward. Balance wasn’t right.

Never mentioned being played through.

As it turned out we had all the ball so didn't really need Fred's off the ball work in there.

My primary question was did Pogba do anything on the ball beyond what Fred does? Any answer?

 

[bosnian_red]

Thought he started well, but then turned into nothing but some simple sideways passes. Expected more from him with all the time on the ball he had. Like he did alright... but feck me the amount of hassle that he's brought us over his time here, you expect a bit more.

 

[Rozay]

Never mentioned that.

Obviously we had all the ball so didn't really need Fred in there.

My question was did Pogba do anything on the ball beyond what Fred does?

He certainly didn’t do any less, and he’s obviously capable of more than Fred. Any debate about who should play between the two players is obviously in relation to defensive contribution. If not, then there’s nothing to discuss, and I don’t even have the energy to debate whether Fred should play ahead of Pogba due to superior contribution on the ball.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Started the game well. Switched the ball on a few occasions and got our full-backs, especially AWB into good areas. As others have said, he faded badly. Started making sloppy errors - probably down to tiredness.

Moved into the left midfielder position and didn't really do anything of note.

Overall, not the type of performance you want from one of your most influential players, especially in a final.

 

[Marwood]

He certainly didn’t do any less, and he’s obviously capable of more than Fred. Any debate about who should play between the two players is obviously in relation to defensive contribution. If not, then there’s nothing to discuss, and I don’t even have the energy to debate whether Fred should play ahead of Pogba due to superior contribution on the ball.

Rozay why not just answer the question? Was Pogba better on the ball tonight than Fred usually is.

I doubt you will answer so I'll take "didn't do any less" as a no.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

A great player on his day but the stars need to align for that to happen. We will not be worse without him but likely no takers for now.

 

[Posh Red]

Honestly you can’t be scapegoating him tonight? He worked hard and did fine

 

[Rozay]

Rozay why not just answer the question? Was Pogba better on the ball tonight than Fred usually is.

I doubt you will answer so I'll take "didn't do any less" as a no.

Okay, I don’t know. Me saying ‘he wasn’t worse’ is an answer. You will have to get Ekeke to forensically analyse every touch, I’ve already said his game was simple and boring, misplaced a few, not spectacular. Was it ‘better than Fred’ - what does that even mean? Are you after a pass percentage? It was an average game. Fred has similar. What separates Pogba from Fred is when he is at his very best, which I have said he wasn’t tonight, as he is capable of more. Beyond that, I have no idea if it was more or less than Fred could have done.

 

[Mainoldo]

So am I to be led to believe that we were played through tonight and missed Fred’s superior pressing and tackling?

Fred’s off the ball work was irrelevant, Pogba didn’t let us down in that department tonight. He did his bit. But he obviously didn’t have much impact going forward. I don’t think he really tried to. He was mainly circulating it. He’s obviously capable of doing more offensively, but to me, he looked like he was trying to play responsibly, which ultimately just made his game boring to me. Think he was more concerned with not making mistakes and keeping his position, doing his defensive duties etc than impacting the game going forward. Balance wasn’t right.

Great analysis.

 

[G-MUFC]

£80M and goes missing in a EL final against basic opposition.
He's now 28. He should be in his peak and dominating the middle of the park for us week in week out. However he can't even dominate against Fulham at home.

 

[city-puma]

Pogba was terrible and in a lot of minutes he seemed completely lost and didn’t know what to do in the center of the pitch. But I don’t blame him at all because he tried to give his all today. Our play depends on so much on McFred + Maguire as the foundation. We didn’t have that foundation and the luck was not on our side today.

 

[VeevaVee]

He looked scared and overwhelmed. He obviously wasn't, as he's done bigger, but it looked that way. Very disappointing.

 

[Rozay]

He looked scared and overwhelmed. He obviously wasn't, as he's done bigger, but it looked that way. Very disappointing.

Looked to be more concerned with ‘playing his position’. Everyone knows he has quality with the ball, but as we know, there was so much talk about the role he was selected to play, and the supposed risk involved. To me, he seemed to be preoccupied with showing maturity and discipline, not doing too much and showing that he can be trusted to play the role. Sadly, as a result, it seemed the last thing on his mind was going and affecting the game. Seemed to want to not lose possession m, lose shape etc. Didn’t seem to feel liberated.

 

[criticalanalysis]

We were essentially playing 4-2-4 and people still question Pogba.

We were struggling to get the ball out of our own defence because we are coached so badly and you have Lindelof scared to play the ball forward everytime a player stands him up.

There was more than a few occasions, Pogba had to drop so dangerous low and switched play with good hold up/footwork.

Ole basically giving free reign to Bruno and the other front three to stay so high up the pitch and not offering short options is one major reason why we are so ineffective with the ball.

Pogba wasn't great but he was right in trying to be mature with the ball. Any dribble or pass between the lines would have been an easy counter attack opportunity for Villareal.

It's a massive systematic failing as much as player personnel.

 

[MattofManchester]

We were essentially playing 4-2-4 and people still question Pogba.

Yes, because it's essentially a 4-1-4 with Pogba.
He disrupts the team's balance and structure when he plays and doesn't do enough to justify that risk.

Villarreal weren't really trying to hit us on the counter, so it's not like that was a worry.
These are the games where he has the most important role in that deep position, but he fails to perform.

We keep trying to shoehorn him in but he's not doing enough to merit that.

I can't say enough how much it really is time to move on.

 

[Rozay]

Yes, because it's essentially a 4-1-4 with Pogba.
He disrupts the team's balance and structure when he plays and doesn't do enough to justify that risk.

Villarreal weren't really trying to hit us on the counter, so it's not like that was a worry.
These are the games where he has the most important role in that deep position, but he fails to perform.

We keep trying to shoehorn him in but he's not doing enough to merit that.

I can't say enough how much it really is time to move on.

How have you worked that out today? You have changed 4-2-4 to 4-1-4 and spoke about ‘risk’, when Pogba did plenty of defensive work and didn’t abandon midfield at all.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

He ain't sign a new contract if we can't even beat Villareal in final right?

I thought he was good not on par as McTominay but better than Bruno imo. However, if we are going to give him that 400k or 500k wages then you expect him to come out with a game changer or goal winner in big game and clearly he's not that type of player. That huge of wages could give us minimum 2 top players' wages.

 

[always_hoping]

We was totally nullified tonight and never looked like he'd was bothered to roll up his sleeves and provide some sort of an impact on the game.

 

[Rozay]

He ain't sign a new contract if we can't even beat Villareal in final right?

I thought he was good not on par as McTominay but better than Bruno imo. However, if we are going to give him that 400k or 500k wages then you expect him to come out with a game changer or goal winner. That huge of wages could give us 2 top players' wages.

Agree with that assessment. Scotty was our best player tonight for sure.

I disagree with this goal/game changer thing though. I’d like us to move away from judging all of our players based on ‘moments’. And also, if he’s going to be played where he played tonight, then it isn’t the position for what you asked for. If you want those things from him, he needs to be played further forward, with another two. You can’t play a player in a double pivot and judge on goals and game changing. He has provided a lot of moments this season when played further forward.

Personally, I don’t think double pivot is best for him, and wouldn’t be opposed to him moving on to get a different type of player. I don’t see him and Bruno working in the same midfield.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Really disappointing tonight. Expected so much more from him.

 

[Born2Lose]

You know it's bad when even his fanbois are using terms like "no worse than".

 

[MattofManchester]

How have you worked that out today? You have changed 4-2-4 to 4-1-4 and spoke about ‘risk’, when Pogba did plenty of defensive work and didn’t abandon midfield at all.

Because there wasn't much defensive work to be done. Villarreal stayed pinned in their own half for the vast majority of the game.
Even then, Pogba, for all his qualities, is very easily bypassed in midfield, and at times, it's as if his partner is performing a lone role. That is based on all his performances as a 6, not just today.

For that risk to be made, there needs to be reward. Today was ideal for him, as creatively, he should have ran the show
He didn't offer that, which isn't good enough to justify his continued place in the team or at the club, given his contract.

 

[bosnian_red]

Wonder if that was his final United game.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Yes, because it's essentially a 4-1-4 with Pogba.
He disrupts the team's balance and structure when he plays and doesn't do enough to justify that risk.

Villarreal weren't really trying to hit us on the counter, so it's not like that was a worry.
These are the games where he has the most important role in that deep position, but he fails to perform.

We keep trying to shoehorn him in but he's not doing enough to merit that.

I can't say enough how much it really is time to move on.

He along with Bailly and Lindelof was literally the deepest player behind the entire Villareal team at times in the first half. Everytime he picked up the ball, he would have had 3-4 players pouncing.

Sure they may not have been a counter attacking threat but if you're expecting your deepest midfielder to do game changing stuff, the issue is not on Pogba, it's the frankly abysmal coaching.

We had all our players in their half and we couldn't get it to them without struggling massively without needing a loose second ball or getting lucky by randomly pressing them.

Ole could have prime Xavi and he would still play 4-2-3-1 expecting him to be box to box against the midfield opposition.

Pogba deserves criticism, I'm not absolving him of that. The fact McT was one of our greater attacking threats tells all you need to know about how out coached Ole was by Emery.

 

[Eternitiy]

He was good in the first half, but ran out of ideas and became very sloppy as the game progressed.

Disappointing over all, but where are the critics for Bruno? A far worse display - selected as captain and promptly disappeared throughout the match, only to reappear to berate the officials.

 

[Rozay]

Because there wasn't much defensive work to be done. Villarreal stayed pinned in their own half for the vast majority of the game.
Even then, Pogba, for all his qualities, is very easily bypassed in midfield, and at times, it's as if his partner is performing a lone role. That is based on all his performances as a 6, not just today.

For that risk to be made, there needs to be reward. Today was ideal for him, as creatively, he should have ran the show
He didn't offer that, which isn't good enough to justify his continued place in the team or at the club, given his contract.

Perhaps, but in a big final, I’m not sure him taking it upon himself to go off trying to be a creator was the right thing. I’m sure he is aware of all that is said of his game, and to me, he seemed scared shitless to go off and do the things you speak of.

Bruno Fernandes was selected to do the things you ask, and he created feck all. Pogba played in a double pivot, and to me, played conservatively. I don’t think people know what they want from Pogba. If he went off trying to score and force it and we lost, people would be calling for him to keep it simple. But we know he is capable of creating, so if he plays it simple and we don’t win, it looks like he doesn’t do enough. From what I see, he approached the game as he did for France, which just before kick off I was reading many people citing as evidence of his ability to play that role.

To me, he clearly wants to play further forward. But he is also aware of this narrative of him being a liability in a two, and of all games, I suspect a cup final was the last game where he wanted to take any risk and cost us today. I personally don’t blame him, or Bruno. The midfield doesn’t work. A midfield is a unit, and it didn’t really make sense. It’s easy to pick individuals, but that is a mentality that holds us back. People genuinely watched us play tonight, and have come on to express their anger that Pogba basically didn’t just ‘do something amazing’, on the basis of nothing other than ‘he gets paid a lot of money’. How anyone could watch the game and just hope that, from nowhere, a star player just ‘does something’ is beyond me. We did not stretch them, we did not move them, we just looked like men thrown together. Which is sadly not uncommon.

 

[MattofManchester]

Perhaps, but in a big final, I’m not sure him taking it upon himself to go off trying to be a creator was the right thing. I’m sure he is aware of all that is said of his game, and to me, he seemed scared shitless to go off and do the things you speak of.

Bruno Fernandes was selected to do the things you ask, and he created feck all.

Bruno is the force, as we've discussed already. It's not his role that I'm referring to. In games like today, someone like Bruno is rendered less useful as there's no space to play or move into.

Pogba in the deep role has the most integral role then. He has to set the tempo and control the game with his range and ability.

That is what I expect from him, and that is what he didn't deliver.
I didn't expect anything amazing. I expected him to raise his game and excel at what he is partly talented at.

While the whole team was problematic, he continues to be a massive sticking point in the XI.
For a player of his stature and experience, that is not something that is anywhere near good enough.
He drifts with the flow far too often to be given the kind of importance that he is asking for and that has been placed on him.

 

[Hammondo]

Really poor. Slow on and off the ball, and hid from responsibility. Perfect example of how he can never run a game

 

[criticalanalysis]

Bruno is the force, as we've discussed already. It's not his role that I'm referring to. In games like today, someone like Bruno is rendered less useful as there's no space to play or move into.

Pogba in the deep role has the most integral role then. He has to set the tempo and control the game with his range and ability.

That is what I expect from him, and that is what he didn't deliver.
I didn't expect anything amazing. I expected him to raise his game and excel at what he is partly talented at.

While the whole team was problematic, he continues to be a massive sticking point in the XI.
For a player of his stature and experience, that is not something that is anywhere near good enough.
He drifts with the flow far too often to be given the kind of importance that he is asking for and that has been placed on him.

You expect too much from one player. No single person can set the tempo or control the game without a well coached set up.

Can he play better? Absolutely. Can you expect him to 'dictate' the game in this team? Wild expectations imo.

Before you judge Pogba's potential ability to do those things, why don't you think about whether you saw obvious short, medium and long pass options on the pitch tonight?

'Tempo' and 'control' don't just happen with one player being superlatively better than everyone else on the pitch and just doing it. There's need to be and I hate to say this 'patterns of play'.

 

[Number32]

I don't undetstand the obsession with Paul Pogba's creativity in this forum. He IS NOT a creative player, he is strong, technically great, and can score, but creativity is not his thing.

When Bruno was locked by 2 players, he should've step up to make a forward pass or crack their defense, instead he is just jogging around and passing the ball side ways.

We need a better creative midfielder for next season and let him go this summer. Going back to Juve might suit him better.

 

[el3mel]

He did feck all. He's really not a center midfielder no matter how much we try him there. He's shit at it. We should either throw him upfront as an attacking midfield or not play him at all from the start.

Pogba while a great player on day, is just unfortunately a huge tactical headache with his inability to play any other position than a very specific one. It's either this position or forget about it.

 

[ti vu]

Looked to be more concerned with ‘playing his position’. Everyone knows he has quality with the ball, but as we know, there was so much talk about the role he was selected to play, and the supposed risk involved. To me, he seemed to be preoccupied with showing maturity and discipline, not doing too much and showing that he can be trusted to play the role. Sadly, as a result, it seemed the last thing on his mind was going and affecting the game. Seemed to want to not lose possession m, lose shape etc. Didn’t seem to feel liberated.

This. We know how frustrating McFred combo can be on their off day. However with them being tasked to cover the defensive duty, that would allow Pogba to play with more freedom going forward. He may still do silly thing, but with higher risk, the probability of reward is higher. This game with only McTominay to screen our backline and Maguire, the captain out, it may be both the instruction and Pogba's cautiousness to play more withdrawal. I leaned more on Ole's instruction, which is bad combining with his damn late sub pretty much counter producing our players. Playing into Emery's hand from the start.

 

[MiracleInMadrid]

Used wrongly by Ole. Very predictable performance when placed in the middle of the park.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

B

As much as I admire Pogba as a player, he is just not the right fit for our team with the system we are playing and hasn't been since he joined. He isn't the type of player who is consistently good in a midfield two, he isn't a left winger and he isn't an attacking midfielder. He can do a job there at times, has a few good games here and there, but overall we try to shoehorn him into the team when he is fit. In the long run it's just not beneficial for both parties.

Tactically he's a real pain. Not an attacker due to low end product. Not a midfielder as he doesn't do the job properly. He'll perennially be stuck between the two. Could be part of your midfield but it needs to be a three with the right ingredients which we won't have.

 

[Freak]

He never fit us. Looks out of place whenever he plays more often than not.

 

[ForeverRed1]

I keep saying it but I’d sell him.
He’s been so underwhelming for us. A few decent spells doesn’t justify his price tag and expectation.

his agent is a nightmare and he is constantly flirting with other teams. Hasn’t signed a contract yet and probably won’t so he can walk away next season on silly money, while we recoup nothing back from the 89million we spent on him.

let him get his dream move to real and go all out for jack grealish.

 

[ForeverRed1]

I keep saying it but I’d sell him.
He’s been so underwhelming for us. A few decent spells doesn’t justify his price tag and expectation.

his agent is a nightmare and he is constantly flirting with other teams. Hasn’t signed a contract yet and probably won’t so he can walk away next season on silly money, while we recoup nothing back from the 89million we spent on him.

let him get his dream move to real and go all out for jack grealish.