[Rozay]

If only. We’ve had worse performances this season. Including a game against the same opposition!

There are threads about the “bottom level” of individual players but the bottom level of United under Ole is quite something. Diabolical stuff.

I’m trying to work out whether you have come trying to build some sort of counter argument here that this team doesn’t need Pogba back in the midfield. But without actually saying it. There’s clearly been a difference in quality in the midfield area. We can’t string any passes together.

We won’t become the best team in the league because of Pogba, but he will improve our ability to pass the ball around, and we were passing it better before he was injured.

 

[Jeppers7]

I’m trying to work out whether you have come trying to build some sort of counter argument here that this team doesn’t need Pogba back in the midfield. But without actually saying it. There’s clearly been a difference in quality in the midfield area. We can’t string any passes together.

We won’t become the best team in the league because of Pogba, but he will improve our ability to pass the ball around, and we were passing it better before he was injured.

Exactly what he’s doing.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Trust to put a negative slant.....could be that Pogba was dragging us through games despite the team....but no....the rot had set in ffs

He's right though. We've seen dog shit like this with Pogba and without Pogba. It'd be lovely if Pogba's injury was the issue, but it runs deeper than that.

 

[Jeppers7]

He's right though. We've seen dog shit like this with Pogba and without Pogba. It'd be lovely if Pogba's injury was the issue, but it runs deeper than that.

Post it in someone’s thread who wasn’t dragging us through some games in that period. FFS the guy can’t even get a little credit without you lot jumping in. This is the difference between Pogba and almost every other player....he gets criticised for the teams performance and not recognised for his own performance.

 

[Born2Lose]

Classic brand footballer thread. Better when he's not playing.

 

[Rozay]

Classic brand footballer thread. Better when he's not playing.

And player of the month when he last was.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Post it in someone’s thread who wasn’t dragging us through some games in that period. FFS the guy can’t even get a little credit without you lot jumping in. This is the difference between Pogba and almost every other player....he gets criticised for the teams performance and not recognised for his own performance.

Ah yes, this is the only active player thread at the minute. Good observation.

I don't really know what to say, I'm sure you'd be the first to defend Pogba when we play poorly with him in the side and be very quick to point out the problems run deeper, but for some reason you're patrolling the thread to clutch your pearls at the suggestion that he's not a one man solution to our issue on the ball.

 

[Jeppers7]

Ah yes, this is the only active player thread at the minute. Good observation.

I don't really know what to say, I'm sure you'd be the first to defend Pogba when we play poorly with him in the side and be very quick to point out the problems run deeper, but for some reason you're patrolling the thread to clutch your pearls at the suggestion that he's not a one man solution to our issue on the ball.

No I’m suggesting certain posters only seem to appear to criticise him, disappear when he plays well, and fail to separate team performance from individual performances with this particular player. Then see people writing something positive and feel the need to put the negative slant.

FOr what it’s worth there isn’t a one man solution to our problems, unless that man was Maradona. Same as Pogba hasn’t been THE problem in his time here. He’s been one of our best players, remains one of our best players and our performances and results without him are evidently different to before he got injured.

I think it posters like you who consider him to be a one man solution, or that he should be...then put the blame on him for everything. Nah we have issues as a team, Pogba being injured currently is magnifying it because Bruno has been mostly gash since mid December with a few good games thrown in, our forwards have been terrible all season too. We have no right winger and bang average McFred.

The funny thing is some people think the answer is to get rid of Pogba. I imagine you’re one of them. Clutching your pearls at the thought of him getting another contract.

 

[NinjaFletch]

No I’m suggesting certain posters only seem to appear to criticise him, disappear when he plays well, and fail to separate team performance from individual performances with this particular player. Then see people writing something positive and feel the need to put the negative slant.

FOr what it’s worth there isn’t a one man solution to our problems, unless that man was Maradona. Same as Pogba hasn’t been THE problem in his time here. He’s been one of our best players, remains one of our best players and our performances and results without him are evidently different to before he got injured.

I think it posters like you who consider him to be a one man solution, or that he should be...then put the blame on him for everything. Nah we have issues as a team, Pogba being injured currently is magnifying it because Bruno has been mostly gash since mid December with a few good games thrown in, our forwards have been terrible all season too. We have no right winger and bang average McFred.

The funny thing is some people think the answer is to get rid of Pogba. I imagine you’re one of them. Clutching your pearls at the thought of him getting another contract.

Hey, well now you've admitted that, why didn't you just leave it at 'hey, we agree there isn't a one man solution to the problem and perhaps I was over alert to perceived criticism and flew off the handle a bit'?

As we're now on the same page, I'll take this a constructive little discussion where we've arrived at consensus.

 

[Rozay]

Ah yes, this is the only active player thread at the minute. Good observation.

I don't really know what to say, I'm sure you'd be the first to defend Pogba when we play poorly with him in the side and be very quick to point out the problems run deeper, but for some reason you're patrolling the thread to clutch your pearls at the suggestion that he's not a one man solution to our issue on the ball.

To be fair, he isn’t a one man solution to our issues on the ball. Far from it. But he clearly improved us on the ball. So choosing posts where people say that we miss him to try to downplay any improvement he might give us on the basis that it is not the only improvement we need is - dunno, can’t even think of the word. ‘Mischievous’? ‘Agenda-ish’? ‘Odd’?

I don’t think anyone has come here to say we’ll be the league’s strongest team if PP was here. We’ve said the team misses him, and there has been a rush from a few to basically say that it doesn’t matter, because the team needs more than just Pogba. Which is true, but why the desire to discredit? If we need another 30% and PP only gives us 10% of that, is it not true that we need him back? But for some, any conversation about that 10% just triggers the reaction for them to bang on about the other 20, to basically quickly balance any assertion that we miss Pogba.

As you said, the problems run deeper. But unless you see yourself on the ‘other side’ needing to make a counter-argument - why would that be what you are drawn to say? And why is there a need to try and counter in the first place? It’s not offensive to say the team needs Pogba back, only if that offends you!

We shouldn’t need this situation where people feel a pro-Pogba statement needs to be ‘balanced’ all the time. We should really just be looking at the team. This isn’t a competition, Pogba is a United player!

 

[Adnan]

We need him back quickly or else I fear we will miss out on top 4. Our current mid fielders wouldn't look out of place at teams fighting relegation.

 

[Adcuth]

Get well soon please Paul

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Classic brand footballer thread. Better when he's not playing.

Didn’t he win player of the month before he got injured?

 

[RedDevil@84]

Are we once again missing players who are not there

Suddenly Pogba is a secret saviour again who must be back at any cost.

 

[MattofManchester]

He’s been one of our best players, remains one of our best players and our performances and results without him are evidently different to before he got injured.

I'd correct that. He's been THE best player for the longest period of time for us, given he dates back to Jose era.

Sure, he makes mistakes, but it's absolutely clear we're worse off without him.

Still see him leaving, though.

 

[MadDogg]

Trust to put a negative slant.....could be that Pogba was dragging us through games despite the team....but no....the rot had set in ffs

Pogue was right though.

Full credit to Pogba for getting a few goals to win games recently, but the team as a whole was already playing like shit before he got injured. Him playing wouldn't have made the team as a whole play any better today (which is what some people seem to be making out) as most of the problem was with our front three. Pogba would have been more likely to score a goal himself though.

 

[croadyman]

We have dropped 8 league points since he limped off against Everton and miss him massively

 

[Ali Dia]

We have definitely missed Pogba. There’s no doubt about it at this stage. Our form since he got injured is very worrying indeed. I think our forwards are the main problem though. I understand the service isn’t great but the midfield are always working hard at least. All of our forwards apart from Cavani and James are walking around the place shrugging their shoulders this season. It’s pogbas goals and presence we have missed most because our forwards are so timid and out of sync. Even Rashford with his numbers has been seriously patchy and majorly lacking intensity/work rate. it’s about time Bruno had some kind of drop off from saving us in nearly every game. If we had a better squad you would hope rotation should stop performances like tonight but Ole is so risk averse no matter his options. It’s starting to do my head in and turn me slightly against him. Take a risk man! Change things earlier. Bring on Amad for 10 minutes. Drop someone! Give someone a bollocking! Knock someone out Brian Clough style if you have to Shake these guys up! I’m pretty sure he did say our forwards weren’t very good tonight on tv. Fecking lay into them after that!

 

[NinjaFletch]

To be fair, he isn’t a one man solution to our issues on the ball. Far from it. But he clearly improved us on the ball. So choosing posts where people say that we miss him to try to downplay any improvement he might give us on the basis that it is not the only improvement we need is - dunno, can’t even think of the word. ‘Mischievous’? ‘Agenda-ish’? ‘Odd’?

I don’t think anyone has come here to say we’ll be the league’s strongest team if PP was here. We’ve said the team misses him, and there has been a rush from a few to basically say that it doesn’t matter, because the team needs more than just Pogba. Which is true, but why the desire to discredit? If we need another 30% and PP only gives us 10% of that, is it not true that we need him back? But for some, any conversation about that 10% just triggers the reaction for them to bang on about the other 20, to basically quickly balance any assertion that we miss Pogba.

As you said, the problems run deeper. But unless you see yourself on the ‘other side’ needing to make a counter-argument - why would that be what you are drawn to say? And why is there a need to try and counter in the first place? It’s not offensive to say the team needs Pogba back, only if that offends you!

We shouldn’t need this situation where people feel a pro-Pogba statement needs to be ‘balanced’ all the time. We should really just be looking at the team. This isn’t a competition, Pogba is a United player!

Well the specific claim was that we'd gone to shit since Pogba had got injured. I'm not going to put words into Pogue's mouth on the broader point around Pogba as a United player, but I do think it's correct to point out that us 'going to shit' doesn't correlate precisely with Pogba's injury. It would be nice if it did, because it would make the solution much easier to our current awful form, but also because I still got the sense that even though Pogba was individually playing well he was still something of a square peg of which Ole had not quite figured out how to make the best use.

And more to the point, laying the blame for why we have dropped off at the feet of Pogba's injury is an easy cop-out for Ole and avoids discussion of much more pertinent questions about our form. All of which is to say that I think it's less a question about whether Pogba is or isn't a good player or does or doesn't improve us (lord knows whatever you think about him he isn't worse than Fred) but, rather, how the club is being managed.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Well the specific claim was that we'd gone to shit since Pogba had got injured. I'm not going to put words into Pogue's mouth on the broader point around Pogba as a United player, but I do think it's correct to point out that us 'going to shit' doesn't correlate precisely with Pogba's injury. It would be nice if it did, because it would make the solution much easier to our current awful form, but also because I still got the sense that even though Pogba was individually playing well he was still something of a square peg of which Ole had not quite figured out how to make the best use.

And more to the point, laying the blame for why we have dropped off at the feet of Pogba's injury is an easy cop-out for Ole and avoids discussion of much more pertinent questions about our form. All of which is to say that I think it's less a question about whether Pogba is or isn't a good player or does or doesn't improve us (lord knows whatever you think about him he isn't worse than Fred) but, rather, how the club is being managed.

When our team plays like crap, Pogba plays "slightly better, but hardly useful" football. All the expectations of "Saviour Pogba" have long been buried. He has been here for years now.

And then there is a "Coming back from injury" period for him that will be there. And it was pretty long after Covid. Will probably be longer after the injury which has kept him put for a considerable time.

 

[Rozay]

Well the specific claim was that we'd gone to shit since Pogba had got injured. I'm not going to put words into Pogue's mouth on the broader point around Pogba as a United player, but I do think it's correct to point out that us 'going to shit' doesn't correlate precisely with Pogba's injury. It would be nice if it did, because it would make the solution much easier to our current awful form, but also because I still got the sense that even though Pogba was individually playing well he was still something of a square peg of which Ole had not quite figured out how to make the best use.

And more to the point, laying the blame for why we have dropped off at the feet of Pogba's injury is an easy cop-out for Ole and avoids discussion of much more pertinent questions about our form. All of which is to say that I think it's less a question about whether Pogba is or isn't a good player or does or doesn't improve us (lord knows whatever you think about him he isn't worse than Fred) but, rather, how the club is being managed.

To be fair, there’s been a clear drop in performance since his injury. It isn’t just points - I agree that we dropped some points before he was injured too, but I think we still played better against the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool.

Also, to provide some balance of my own - we also lost Cavani around the same time, so that is a lot of the quality taken out of our front 6.

I’m with you that the team needs a lot more. It was just about good enough before - we were winning games but not really comfortably even with him there. But we have certainly gotten worse since he and Cavani were off. It does make the Van de Beek situation more annoying and frustrating. He should be stepping in here and smoothing things over. But I can’t imagine we even had many shots on goal over the month of Feb, let alone goals. We’ve been left clinging to some 50-50 refereeing decisions that may have given us a 1-0 at best. So yea, we need more than just Pogba for sure, in order to be the best team in the league. But to be a better version of what this current squad is capable of, we need him back I think. But I agree, even then - it’s still not great. I’m just sad and fed up tbh. Team is going round in circles.

 

[NinjaFletch]

To be fair, there’s been a clear drop in performance since his injury. It isn’t just points - I agree that we dropped some points before he was injured too, but I think we still played better against the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool.

Also, to provide some balance of my own - we also lost Cavani around the same time, so that is a lot of the quality taken out of our front 6.

I’m with you that the team needs a lot more. It was just about good enough before - we were winning games but not really comfortably even with him there. But we have certainly gotten worse since he and Cavani were off. It does make the Van de Beek situation more annoying and frustrating. He should be stepping in here and smoothing things over. But I can’t imagine we even had many shots on goal over the month of Feb, let alone goals. We’ve been left clinging to some 50-50 refereeing decisions that may have given us a 1-0 at best. So yea, we need more than just Pogba for sure, in order to be the best team in the league. But to be a better version of what this current squad is capable of, we need him back I think. But I agree, even then - it’s still not great. I’m just sad and fed up tbh. Team is going round in circles.

Oh agreed. Particularly on Van de Beek; feck knows if that's awful management or a crap signing, but he was here precisely to provide this sort of depth and he's genuinely proving to be a less useful option than Lingard would have been. But for arguments sake, we were absolutely diabolical against Sheffield United and laboured against Arsenal, Liverpool, Burnley and Fulham and Wolves all with Pogba in the side; two of those games he popped up with a winner, and I'd agree with any suggestion that he was papering over some cracks with those goals, but I don't think there was a massive gulf in the overall quality of performance.

To give Pogba his credit, it's partly because I'm not sure he's that sort of midfielder, nor that that's how you get the best out of him. I think if you were playing him alongside a more defensively minded partner who looked to be vaguely familiar with the concept of what a football is, and was cognisant of the general premise of trying to give it to one of the other people wearing red shirts, Pogba's general quality on the ball would be fine. I just don't think he's particularly great at recycling possession or setting a tempo (although probably he's the best at it of all our options) and that's been our biggest issue.

 

[Mainoldo]

He’ll get us top 4. Thank you Paul

 

[Red00012]

Are we once again missing players who are not there

Suddenly Pogba is a secret saviour again who must be back at any cost.

Ya I’d much rather Matic and Fred in the middle

 

[2mufc0]

Some posters must have a pretty entrenched agenda to say we haven't missed him.

 

[edcunited1878]

Of course he's a big miss, especially when he was fully committed on both sides of the ball. He was in form and provided another layer of penetration from the pitch that's sorely been missing.

United are missing consistent delivery and threat from the central midfield duo without Pogba. Shaw brings it from the backline, it's been missing from the central midfield layer, Bruno is on his own at the attacking midfield layer, and no forward on the forward line is a consistent service provider or provides first, scores second mentality.

United can win matches without Pogba, it has been clear. But that doesn't mean it's sustainable or optimal, because it's really not.

 

[Icemav]

Sad the pining for Pogba, or any individual player for that matter. We obviously have a stronger squad with him and he is a potential match winner when in form, but we shouldnt be relying on any single player to win the last several games. The whole squad performance has been lacklustre and without a good reason.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Some posters must have a pretty entrenched agenda to say we haven't missed him.

It is not agenda. I have pretty much seen what Pogba does, over the years. There are no guarantees with him.

Did we miss him? Yes.
Were we guaranteed top performance by Pogba when everyone else was dropping form? No

 

[roonster09]

We really missed him, he was one of the player who was capable of creating chances and also bring some composure to the team.

 

[Canucantona20]

When is Pogba back ? We need him

 

[Jeppers7]

Oh agreed. Particularly on Van de Beek; feck knows if that's awful management or a crap signing, but he was here precisely to provide this sort of depth and he's genuinely proving to be a less useful option than Lingard would have been. But for arguments sake, we were absolutely diabolical against Sheffield United and laboured against Arsenal, Liverpool, Burnley and Fulham and Wolves all with Pogba in the side; two of those games he popped up with a winner, and I'd agree with any suggestion that he was papering over some cracks with those goals, but I don't think there was a massive gulf in the overall quality of performance.

To give Pogba his credit, it's partly because I'm not sure he's that sort of midfielder, nor that that's how you get the best out of him. I think if you were playing him alongside a more defensively minded partner who looked to be vaguely familiar with the concept of what a football is, and was cognisant of the general premise of trying to give it to one of the other people wearing red shirts, Pogba's general quality on the ball would be fine. I just don't think he's particularly great at recycling possession or setting a tempo (although probably he's the best at it of all our options) and that's been our biggest issue.

Of course you’re going to agree with any negative slant....you’re free to do that. But no we are not in any kind of agreement. You obviously struggle to give Pogba any credit. You’re exactly the kind of agenda merchant I’m referring to with the other one.

 

[Jeppers7]

It is not agenda. I have pretty much seen what Pogba does, over the years. There are no guarantees with him.

Did we miss him? Yes.
Were we guaranteed top performance by Pogba when everyone else was dropping form? No

Who guarantees us that? Just out of interest?

 

[R'hllor]

Its confusing, not a small number of people couldnt/cant wait to see back of him and his agent.

 

[kouroux]

Some posters must have a pretty entrenched agenda to say we haven't missed him.

It takes something special to say we haven't missed him. Even if the results were bad at times with him, we rarely were this boring and toothless.
You'd think something so obvious can be easily admitted

It is not agenda. I have pretty much seen what Pogba does, over the years. There are no guarantees with him.

Did we miss him? Yes.
Were we guaranteed top performance by Pogba when everyone else was dropping form? No

Who does that in the entire world ?

 

[drdoityourself]

His ability to receive the ball in midfield and move it forward is sorely missed in this team. Won't solve the lack of form for the strikers entirely but I'd like to believe it would get them more opportunities on the ball and therefor a better feel for the game and better rhythm.

Matic has unfortunately reinvented himself as a false left centreback when attacking and Fred isn't a good passer and carries no threat in the many shooting opportunities he finds himself in. We really need him back.

 

[ghaliboy]

Are we once again missing players who are not there

Suddenly Pogba is a secret saviour again who must be back at any cost.

the usual whizzers are dipping the stick as well

 

[Golden Nugget]

We’re really missing him, especially as Bruno looks jaded and is really out of form right now.

We really need another creative option when Bruno wasn’t performing - which was Pogba before he got injured. Fred and Matic definitely aren’t helping - McTominay has been decent but it to that level - van see Beek... who knows.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Of course you’re going to agree with any negative slant....you’re free to do that. But no we are not in any kind of agreement. You obviously struggle to give Pogba any credit. You’re exactly the kind of agenda merchant I’m referring to with the other one.

Do you have anything of value to contribute or do you just throw around 'agenda!!!' whenever someone posts an opinion of a player you don't happen to agree with?

 

[Jeppers7]

Do you have anything of value to contribute or do you just throw around 'agenda!!!' whenever someone posts an opinion of a player you don't happen to agree with?

Value

in giving Pogba credit you wrote a full paragraph discrediting him, and added that his general ability on the ball is ‘fine’. Thanks for the contribution.

If that’s a paragraph in his credit, it’s no wonder you’re quick to defend anyone who is discrediting him.

That’s fine, don’t get your knickers in a twist....I get it.

Move on

 

[NinjaFletch]

Value

in giving Pogba credit you wrote a full paragraph discrediting him, and added that his general ability on the ball is ‘fine’. Thanks for the contribution.

If that’s a paragraph in his credit, it’s no wonder you’re quick to defend anyone who is discrediting him.

That’s fine, don’t get your knickers in a twist....I get it.

Move on

You may well think Pogba has skills I don't, you may well think Pogba is capable of things I don't, and you may well disagree with me about how to get the best out of him as a result. I don't really know, because you've spent every single post just posting increasingly snitty remarks in lieu of actually giving your thoughts. But, hey, you may be right and I may be wrong; it doesn't exactly matter. We both, ultimately, want United to be successful and would be happy to see Pogba playing a part in that.

You have over a hundred posts in this thread jumping on posters who aren't quite as effusive in their phrase as you feel they ought to be, but you seemingly have very little interest in actually discussing the topic that you're dedicating this much time to. - in fact, you seem to see discussion in itself as an affront to Pogba's ability. I'm not sure I really see the point of being on a discussion forum if I have no interest in discussion, but each to their own.