My patience with him is wearing thin to be honest. He is supposed to be our talisman and game changer but he's more like a midfield version of Nani in that he is unplayable on his day but it isn't his day often enough. Maybe the manager doesn't get the best out of him but for his talent and the money spent I expect more from him. That being said, he still has a monstrous ceiling and if he gets it right we will have a generational midfielder on our hands so I hope he is still here for years to come.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
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Carrick held up our midfield for years. 2012 we had Valencia, Young, Carrick, Welbeck as our regular starters in midfield. 2013 we added Cleverley and Kagawa. There are players who started around 20 league matches. Is this surrounding Carrick with quality in the midfield and attack, serving as an explanation as to why he could actually perform consistently and not lose his head? too many sad excuses.
Thing is that Herrera outperformed him last season and Matic this season, playing mainly as his midfield partner. He has quality around him, he just doesnt show his quality often enough. Doesn't matter who his partner is. A big part of it I put down to managers playstyle, but a lot to pogba himself as his own performance varies so much and goes from playing relaxed and confidently to playing like a child and making amateurish mistakes within days of each other.
Carrick did ok but once the likes of Giggs and Scholes retired and he was the main man he struggled as much as Pogba has done.
Carrick is way out of pogbas league though, unfair comparison.
Carricks education was completely different to Pogba's. Do you understand the difference to coming to a club with a winning culture and manager. Do you know how much you learn from playing with Rio, Vidic, Evra, Gary N, young Rooney, CR7, Fletch, Giggs et al. You mention Carrick but 2012 is 6 years after he was signed. You are trying to compare that to Pogba situation.....That's absolutely laughable.
I read the bit that he has quality around him, and immediately your argument fell flat on it's face.
He's our man and should be the player we build the team around. Even when he puts in mediocre performances, he's the one who makes things happen. No player is bigger than the club but he's pretty close imv. We just need to get the best out of him. Down to the manager!
Matic and Herrera aren't quality players? Sanchez, lukaku, Mata on the ball and with his movement (even if hes ineffective for other parts), and our other younger players? They're quality players. They aren't the reason why Pogba has flopped. And it's dumb to obsess over Pogba needing a midfield 3. Yeah, maybe to get the absolute best. But often times he hasnt reached that minimum level even, and that's what I mean by his own consistency and not showing his own quality.
Of course everyone improves with yet better players, and a large part we can put down to system in place from the manager. But it's a load of shite to blame his bad form on a lack of quality around him when these so called lesser players have outperformed him while hes been here. He should show he is better first of all.
Read the post above your initial one and shut up. What do you want him to be, feking Messi? Jesus, some of you are tearing this forum apart.
Matic is closer to being a world class player than Pogba is, so not sure what you're on about.
Pogba can barely string consistent performances together so it's meaningless to look elsewhere.
I think he coasts on talent. Like many footballers, he'll have been the most talented player in his team growing up, continually being labelled a 'star', a 'potential great', 'world class' ETC, United at 16, Juventus first team not long after and then a record transfer...I think his ego means he thinks he can just waltz through games but ultimately, he isn't good enough to do it and we've been massively oversold about his potential greatness.
Last year it was because he didn't have a midfield partner, so we buy Matic to 'unleash him' or that all the times he hit the post last year would result in goals this year. ..it's just excuse after excuse. He's not disciplined enough to play him as central midfielder, so play him further forward as it's 'what he's best at'...when you watch De Bruyne, Salah, Sane you start to see just how far away he is from being a 'top player'. It's not even a debate IMO. No matter what position he plays, you compare him to the league's best players and he loses comprehensively.
He's a talented player, who I'd agree Mourinho probably doesn't get the best out of but we're not talking about him underperforming in a CL final against the best opposition - he looks pedestrian against most sides, very rarely contributing a sustained performances over 90 mins (whether it's against Brighton, Bristol City or Sevilla). Even in the City game where he scored twice and was given MOTM, he was utterly appalling in the first half to the point where he could have had no complaints of he was taken off.
He's very talented, will have great moments across a season and I don't care about the price tag - I just don't think he's close to being what a lot of us thought he would be. I'd certainly keep him though - squad player, will get better and could develop onto a very good player but he's not close to realising his potential IMO and I'm not sure whether he ever will do.
No. Matic and Herrera are solid but not good enough on the ball to play for us. Even Gary Neville agrees. This is what he said:
"The rhythm, passing and quality through midfield has not been anywhere near good enough. Herrera isn't that type of player. Nemanja Matic isn't that type of player."
Herrera had the most touches and passes with 131 and 104 respectively in midfield on Thursday. How many of those were meaningful passes? There is no invention or breaking through the lines. Nothing is happening from midfield to help our attacking players including Pogba because those are the positions he is most effective in. This is Herrera and Matic we're talking about and they're not pulling their weight in midfield. McTominay and Fellaini are not even in the discussion. It's utterly laughable how the standards of our midfield have dropped and people are content with this.
The post that states he needs better players around him? Honestly that's just deflection that takes away all accountability from Pogba for his own performances. He must be better.
Pogba is the one top player I know that people always give reasons for why he under performs. For many months, the main excuse was that he was not being played on the left of a midfield three. That changed. He started playing on the left of a midfield three and not much changed. Now, we are saying he is not performing consistently well because the right players are not around him in the midfield.
Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe playing partners influence playing quality but I think that should only be stretched to a certain extent. Pogba is potentially a world class player but the reality is that he really needs to step up his game. Whether he is played on the left or the right, close to the opposition box or in front of his own box, Pogba needs to deliver at a high standard more consistently.
All the 3 players are going to perform whatever the players around them. They're kind of players you build a team around them. You know when Modric, Iniesta or KDG get the ball, something is going to happen. If we need a full world class midfield to "unleash" Pogba, then we can't build a team around him, never mind that even in his supposedly best position he still has ups and downs.
Previously the excuse was he's not playing in a 4-3-3 formation, and now it's the quality of players around him. We're simply running out of excuses for his inconsistency.
Not sure about this. Complicated and wasteful is never a good thing. His best and most influential games been when he keeps things simple. I also remember the criticism Ronaldo got and how and when did it stop and him become an effective player? Not when he was self indulgent and kept doing step overs with no end product? He had to deliver before criticism stopped.
We wouldn't of won 2 trophies last year without him, we wouldn't play in the Champions League for two consecutive seasons without him, we wouldn't be second and in final for a third trophy.
Our only world class player besides De Gea, our best signing for a long time.
Our only world class player besides De Gea, our best signing for a long time.
The forum want us to be at the top table with a team where 80% of the players wouldnt make those teams that are. Like him or not, DDG, Pogba and Sanchez (cause he's already done it) are the only players that could.
People who slag off Pogba are slagging off their most important player not named De Gea. You lot should be grateful to have a player like Pogba when there's still so many average players for a team aspiring to be the best turning up on the starting XI week-in, week-out. At the end of the day, Pogba is a player who can do everything you'd want a midfielder to do. He has skills, range of passing, vision, teamwork, and can pitch in defense when the other team has the ball. However, the team as a whole is pretty poor when it comes to consistency, and the quality of the players around him makes it hard to create something out of nothing. Some of you are just spoiled, ungrateful 'fans'. When's the last time United has gotten a legitimate world class player to come to their team when everyone else wanted him? He decided to come back and there's some acting like they're ready to sell him. Good luck, the team will finally be consistent once he's gone, consistently terrible.
If you want him to cut out the flicks and tricks, you can feck right off. That's his style, like it or not, that's what makes him a different kind of player, and an entertaining one to watch as well. It didn't stop him from being effective at Juventus and at this club. But since some of you change your opinion on a player from game to game (let's see what was said about him in April compared to now), it's hard to take any of the opinions here seriously.
If you want him to cut out the flicks and tricks, you can feck right off. That's his style, like it or not, that's what makes him a different kind of player, and an entertaining one to watch as well. It didn't stop him from being effective at Juventus and at this club. But since some of you change your opinion on a player from game to game (let's see what was said about him in April compared to now), it's hard to take any of the opinions here seriously.
Don't agree with anyone calling Pogba 'world class', the key to being labelled 'world class' is consistency which is something he sorely lacks, he's got an abundance of talent but blows hot and cold far too often.
I'd say he's world class because he can play for any team in the world. Wouldn't look out of place for Real Madrid or Barcelona. That's world class. If he left us tomorrow he would only end up at teams much better than us. But maybe there are different opinions on what constitutes 'world class'. A lot of people regard Sanchez as world class even when he is was playing for Arsenal. Is he not world class anymore as well? He hasn't set the world alight yet at United but he's world class because again if he left us would only play at a better club.
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It's amazing we don't see him as world class when the only barometer of world class we have is between the sticks. We talk like we are qualified to even assess what world class is when it's been that long since we had one and should we sell him, he'd walk into any team in the world but somehow not good enough for us.....crazy.
Exactly. If we transfer listed him tomorrow the elite of Europe would be fighting to acquire his services. How many players in our squad can you say the same about? Apart from DDG, Sanchez.. None. I find it very funny when people have a go at him for not having the mentality to play for United. As if we're some elite club right now. Pogba has already shown his quality at a club much better than us and is actually doing us a favour by being here. Yes I'm not joking. I know personally I'm grateful that he chose to return to us when he had a pick of clubs to chose from one being Real Madrid. We need him more than he needs us. Our squad is largely filled with mediocre and average players but some would rather get rid of one of the very few top quality players we have. We should be looking to add quality players not lose them! A lot of people might scoff at that but we let him go once and you saw what happened. Do they want to see that again?
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Watch him smash it at the WC and prove its the current playing style and players around him!
Yes that's my opinion. He dillies and dallies always taking more touches than needed. That's no different to a player who has poor passing ability. Both are not good enough on the ball.Matic is not good enough on the ball to play for us???
Wow.
100% agree. People are entitled to their opinion but mine is that whilst the anti Utd press and pundits get their pound of flesh using Pogba as the scapegoat for our poor football and the 'greed' of Sanchez for not going to the Mecca of football where he win trophies that for 70% of the seasons, he did actually contribute too; across the pond players will be watching this closely. Some on here might not see him as WC but there's a company called Adidas that recognise his ability. You see you don't throw millions at people who aren't seen as WC. Look at their list of high profile athletes.
The other is what message does it send to the other WC players that might want to come here? Fans are moaning about our ability to sign quality players, well so we are getting a bit of a reputation of not being able to get a tune of them. What we gonna blame another player for not being good enough? The market place is now very different and so are players options.
Let's not let the usual stereotypical scapegoat mentality on here to blind us of the situation, like you say we need more quality than let the Pogba, Martial et al walk out the door yet the manager puts up a public fight to keep Fellaini.
Whats said is I think people will get their wish, 150m he's gone and I think Martial has already....
Again I agree. Footballs a strange thing as the players that try to be creative in their passing on the team, are the ones that are blamed the most for being wasteful. Can't believe when I reading Pogba looks 'better' when he keeps it simple, but you know the next thing coming.....why pay 90m on someone who keeps it simple. I think that's Pogba and Sanchez problem, they are trying too hard to justify their wages or price tag.
So Modric found it just as easy to play in a Spurs shirt as in Real one? KDG finding it easier playing at city than in that German team he came from? Have they improved playing in those teams.
You can be the best F1 driver but you need the right car and team around you to showcase your talents. It's amazing that the 10 wc players probably play in teams full of world class players....what a coincidence?
Modric and KDB have always been considered top players with huge potential otherwise they wouldn't have attracted attention of elite teams.
Having other world class players around you help that's for sure, but if the only way for you to perform is to have a full midfield and attack of world class players, with a manager that plays certain formation and style, thwn you are simply not a world class player that's supposed to have the team built around, more like a player that needs his team to carry him, not the opposite.
Having no top class midfielders or attackers around him will never be an excuse for a subpar performance. Actually I found it pretty strange we are saying this as an excuse as when he performs well and influence a match, it's also with these players so why are we putting the blames on them not being good enough when he sulks or has a terrible match ?
It's his mentality that the problem. Pogba is an inconsistent and immature kid. If he wants to play well he'll, but at some games he decides to start his shite show and go for all the useless flicks and tricks. It has nothing to do with anyone. He needs to grow up. That's all.
We aren't going to change the whole team for the sake of him.
I hear this banded around a lot but how can you prove it? Is there anything at all? It's just very strange because I hear this a lot but what proves this? Maybe you can say this about Balotelli but Pogba... Pogba is mentally one of the strongest players out there. I'm sorry but he wouldn't have achieved what he has with a weak mentality. On the pitch he does his best to help the team and is very dedicated to his profession. I think he's had two very good seasons with us contrary to what some might say. Our best player in EL last season. One of our key players again this season. Consistent performances in midfield. If he's not scoring or assisting every game doesn't mean he's inconsistent.
It's really clear. In some games he's playing simple football, linking with everyone and that's when he's great. In other games he does back heels, shots from center of the pitch and does useless long bombs. That's when he's at his worst.
It's like one of those things said (often from the media) that becomes real. I find it absolutely ridiculous when you think how he left here, went to Italy and fought his way into the team. Do people think you can do that if you are either mentally weak or immature? Honestly it's laughable that Utd would pay 90m if they thought this too. People talk about him sulking? Those people know as much about him, as he does about them.
You don't pay 90m for that and the most memorable moments in football aren't what you describe. If Rooney hits the overhead kick against City into row Z, people would say, what a waste. People can't have it both ways....
That has nothing to do with being immature or a weak mentality. I always say that world class players are world class because of their decision making. When presented with various options they always make the right action. Whether that's to pass, shoot, dribble and take a man on etc. Pogba takes shots from range because there's nothing actually better at that point than shooting. If he's shooting when there's a better/clear pass on that's poor and the wrong option but I don't see those situations occur much with Pogba. And like Wilson is saying if we discouraged shooting from distance etc we would never have had any memorable moments in the past.
We pay 90m for a player to be the real superstar of the team that carries it on and produces performance week in week out, not paying 90m for a player that we need to send 200m farther for him to start performing as expected from him. Also as a midfield, doing these useless flicks ( that he doesn't even pull out ) in center of the pitch is unacceptable. People seem to keep mixing midfielder roles with forwards'.
Those are infuriating
Pogba has taken several stupid shots from very far away when there were defenders in his face. These shots are never going to be dangerous. Doing stupid flicks in center of the field when we need to move fast or doing stupid long balls aren't doing to help anyone. Review all his great matches and you will find that he was sticking to midfield roles simply and without a fuss and that's when he plays very well.
Doing these stupid tricks in center of the pitch will make him a good player on YouTube, not in the pitch.
Maybe nothing in his mind, but if you consider how shite his shooting was for us for these past few years, then even a backpass is better option than him choosing long range shots. His shooting from range is literally pointless.
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