[Lam]

Problem is not whether Pogba is good enough or where he should play. Mou + his team needs to figure out a way to keep him motivated to give 100% every game and throughout the 90. This will be a major challenge for Mou next season and he should make sure that the team is always in the title race, unlike this season. This in itself will keep Pogba, and a few others, motivated enough to give 100% every minute.

PS: Not saying it is Mou fault that Pogba switches off and gives a 2/10 performance

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I feel sorry for the guy, he's just judged to a different yard stick completely because of the amount we paid for him.

He's got more assists than Christian Eriksen despite playing far deeper for most of the season. He's got 1 less assist than David Silva and 3 less goals whilst playing in a side that has scored 28 less goals.

Play him in a 3 alongside Fernandinho at Manchester City and he would have been as productive as De Bruyne. The stick he gets is completely unjustified given the setup and the teammates he has.

correct

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I love how the commentators and the match pundits slated him all game yet the crowd goes and votes him MOM. Proof of the double standards he is treated with. Kinda reminds me how we were often reminded of Yaya Toure's alleged 'laziness' and 'stamina issues' when he was in his pomp.

 

[roonster09]

I feel sorry for the guy, he's just judged to a different yard stick completely because of the amount we paid for him.

He's got more assists than Christian Eriksen despite playing far deeper for most of the season. He's got 1 less assist than David Silva and 3 less goals whilst playing in a side that has scored 28 less goals.

Play him in a 3 alongside Fernandinho at Manchester City and he would have been as productive as De Bruyne. The stick he gets is completely unjustified given the setup and the teammates he has.

Exactly. Just because we paid record breaking sum, few expect him to control the midfield (which he never did and he never was that kind of player), make the runs, create chance after chance and also keep the game simple. It's like each have their own expectations on Pogba.

This season (except few games) Pogba was very good. From midfield he has contributed 15 or 16 goals in 30 games from midfield, that record is good for even attacking midfielders. He also doesn't take free kicks and corners, all his goals and assists are from open play and most of them are when he was part of midfield 2.

 

[Kostov]

When he plays it a bit more mature and uses his head, he is such a good footballer. Did he ignore Jose when he was substituted? I saw his having a handshake with Rui and Carrick but not with Jose, not that it has to mean anything but just curious.

 

[kouroux]

When he plays it a bit more mature and uses his head, he is such a good footballer. Did he ignore Jose when he was substituted? I saw his having a handshake with Rui and Carrick but not with Jose, not that it has to mean anything but just curious.

Amazing isn't it ? It's like day and night.

 

[Kostov]

Amazing isn't it ? It's like day and night.

It is indeed, but the positive part is that it seems like he tries to be more defensively responsible in his last outing. He still falls short of being good at it, but it looks like he put in an effort last night.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I love how the commentators and the match pundits slated him all game yet the crowd goes and votes him MOM. Proof of the double standards he is treated with. Kinda reminds me how we were often reminded of Yaya Toure's alleged 'laziness' and 'stamina issues' when he was in his pomp.

Eh? What network were you watching? The BT sport guys were raving about his peformance. Including Paul Scholes.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well, i'm not sure if you watched Mo Diame's performance against Arsenal, but if you compare that to his early performances in midfield, he has improved big time, so as you said, yes, Pogba can definitely learn those elements of the game.

Yeah maybe, I’m just considering the possibility that he’s genuine just not very good at it. We always assume that top players with obvious deficiencies will just concentrate on it a bit and “get” it eventually but is it that simple?

I suppose it’s more the notion that “well he’s good at the fun stuff so maybe he needs to concentrate a bit harder on the other stuff because it’s obviously down to him not trying rather than genuinely not grasping it”. Maybe that’s just me projecting my ADHD experience on to someone else

I just think the stuff he’s bad at is much easier to learn than the stuff he’s good at. In Michael Carrick he’s got the perfect teacher too. Couldn’t ask for a better Mr Miyagi.

 

[kouroux]

It is indeed, but the positive part is that it seems like he tries to be more defensively responsible in his last outing. He still falls short of being good at it, but it looks like he put in an effort last night.

We know he can do it in spurts, hopefully it becomes a habit. It's the key to him reaching another level because when he plays like this, everything is much better for him and the team.

 

[Kostov]

We know he can do it in spurts, hopefully it becomes a habit. It's the key to him reaching another level because when he plays like this, everything is much better for him and the team.

It goes without saying.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Much better vs Bournemouth. That should be his normal level of performance, sadly it isn’t the norm. I hope it’s starting to get through to him, as he showed glimpses of how he could be in this team.
He was tracking back to make a tackle in his own half after a United attack and I thought ‘Oh, well done!’, then tempered that thought with the fact that he should be doing that tracking back! Probably why it stood out.

 

[ice-bionic red]

Reading the comments from this game and to the West Brom game the change is night and day.
Almost all wanted us to sell him/get rid yet now most are saying he should stay?

He’s had some bad games but surely we don’t sell him right? The club would look like total mugs buying back a player who they left go for “free” for £89million for them to then lose him... again?

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Reading the comments from this game and to the West Brom game the change is night and day.
Almost all wanted us to sell him/get rid yet now most are saying he should stay?

He’s had some bad games but surely we don’t sell him right? The club would look like total mugs buying back a player who they left go for “free” for £89million for them to then lose him... again?

Well the reaction was silly after that game. There were far worse players than him. Mata and Sanchez did my nut in on Sunday. I don't want them sold either.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

And I still stand by him trying to do a bit too much at times with the flicks. Maybe it's just a pet hate of mine but I detest players doing a few step overs etc without really doing anything at all - which Pogba does!

Did anyone else think it was weird that media and fans have put this good game down to him playing it simple? To me he played his normal game, tried stuff, held the ball when he could easily pass it, tried fancy flicks some that didn’t come off. Yet people are praising him for keeping it simple when he clearly didn’t.
I feel the difference tonight compared to the weekend we’re the options he had around him. He had players running and keeping width to a certain extent. Lingard could have done better in that aspect but even Shaw and Darmian we’re making the occasional offer for him. As where at the weekend Sanchez and Mata were in his space, didn’t keep width, and you could throw a blanket over the 3 of them. Young and Valencia made no effort to give him a wide option either. Give him these things and you’ll get the best out of Pogba, strong powerful guy with an eye for a pass and a goal. I don’t mind the flicks and that as much, I love to see someone enjoying themselves and trying to push the boundaries of what’s possible but there is a point where it’s like stop it and pass.

 

[Trigg]

Here are some stats to substantiate my post further up the page. Pogba compared to some other top CMs.

He looks good in terms of goals/assists but makes less passes, completes a lower % of passes, makes fewer key passes and is generally less likely to win the ball back after losing it. Like I said, he's a luxury player. These were all patterns established at Juventus before we signed him although - interestingly - since joining United his offensive stats have improved slightly, while his defensive stats have got worse. Which is what you'd expect from someone who is buying into his own hype and also goes against the idea that Mourinho is an uber-defensive coach who has throttled Pogba's creativity.

He's playing in a worse team than all those players and is still comparable.

Can he get better? Of course he can, he's only just turned 25. He just needs to be given the chance to get better. Selling him would be a huge mistake for me.

 

[Canagel]

Maybe I am being a bit too harsh. But watching the match I wasn't really blown away by his performance to say the least. And I still stand by him trying to do a bit too much at times with the flicks. Maybe it's just a pet hate of mine but I detest players doing a few step overs etc without really doing anything at all - which Pogba does!


Watching his individual highlights I still stand by that there is another level or two in his game. I mean he made a few good passes here and there, but he made few bad descisons as well. Anyway, for me, this is the absolute minimum he should be doing every game. Obviously, I don't expect him to assist every game etc. Assists can heavily pad the overall performance anyway, look at Mkhitaryan at the start of the season. Look as I was saying, with the player of his enormous talent, I fully believe that If he focuses, he can become unbelievable, Zidane level player.

I personally don't mind the flicks and tricks as long he doesn't do it in dangerous areas like the edge of our own box for instance. He's a flamboyant character that likes to express himself and entertain the viewers and I think it would be wrong for us to defuse that part of his game. At the end of the day players like Pogba are why people pay money to watch games. People had a lot of time for Ronaldo who used to do this regularly so... As long as he's doing his job in the midfield I don't mind if he tries other things.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Reading the comments from this game and to the West Brom game the change is night and day.
Almost all wanted us to sell him/get rid yet now most are saying he should stay?

He’s had some bad games but surely we don’t sell him right? The club would look like total mugs buying back a player who they left go for “free” for £89million for them to then lose him... again?

The issue is consistency. Hence the huge difference in opinions after his two most recent performances. He has to be more consistent. If he can’t then we have no option but to get rid. You can’t have the main man in our team going from an 8/10 to a 4/10 and back to an 8/10 all in just over a week. We never got that from players like Keane and Scholes and that’s the sort of calibre player we need if we’re serious about winning the league. Especially now that City have raised the bar.

 

[VanGaalEra]

5 goals and 15 assists in 31 games is a very good return for a CM player.

 

[roonster09]

5 goals and 15 assists in 31 games is a very good return for a CM player.

His assists stats are wrong. It should be 11 assists.

 

[roonster09]

Did anyone else think it was weird that media and fans have put this good game down to him playing it simple? To me he played his normal game, tried stuff, held the ball when he could easily pass it, tried fancy flicks some that didn’t come off. Yet people are praising him for keeping it simple when he clearly didn’t.
I feel the difference tonight compared to the weekend we’re the options he had around him. He had players running and keeping width to a certain extent. Lingard could have done better in that aspect but even Shaw and Darmian we’re making the occasional offer for him. As where at the weekend Sanchez and Mata were in his space, didn’t keep width, and you could throw a blanket over the 3 of them. Young and Valencia made no effort to give him a wide option either. Give him these things and you’ll get the best out of Pogba, strong powerful guy with an eye for a pass and a goal. I don’t mind the flicks and that as much, I love to see someone enjoying themselves and trying to push the boundaries of what’s possible but there is a point where it’s like stop it and pass.

I agree. Narrative is already established. if he plays bad then it's because he tried too many things. If he plays well then it's because he kept it simple.

He dribbled past players, tried his flicks and tricks but somehow he kept it simple.

There was one guy who even said Pogba would have usually blasted the shot instead of passing it to Lukaku previously but now he kept it simple and passed it. In 2 years only against Burnley or some other team he tried to score instead of passing it to the player who was in very good position but somehow it's norm now. Pogba passing means he kept it simple when he always passes the ball when player is in good scoring position (except 1 or 2 games).

 

[charlenefan]

Much better vs Bournemouth. That should be his normal level of performance, sadly it isn’t the norm. I hope it’s starting to get through to him, as he showed glimpses of how he could be in this team.
He was tracking back to make a tackle in his own half after a United attack and I thought ‘Oh, well done!’, then tempered that thought with the fact that he should be doing that tracking back! Probably why it stood out.

Last night was a performance of someone who had some making up to do hence why he kept things simple for the most part, it's certainly not what I expect his normal level to be though. I expect his normal level to be a few levels higher than last night, not quite the level of his second half against City but certainly something more akin to how he started the season

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Last night was a performance of someone who had some making up to do hence why he kept things simple for the most part, it's certainly not what I expect his normal level to be though. I expect his normal level to be a few levels higher than last night, not quite the level of his second half against City but certainly something more akin to how he started the season

Exactly, this is why so many are disappointed in him. We know he’s capable but the times that he puts these performances in recently have been few and far between.

 

[Murray3007]

i think he needs to keep his game far more simple and move the ball quicker, and get in the box every chance he can, i would play matic and herrera most of games for them to do most of his defensive work.

 

[redflair]

An excellent performance considering he's been on strike, sulking or delete as appropriate for the last three months (the two goals at the Etihad notwithstanding).

Let's hope he can do similar things at Wembley on Saturday. A similar team with some proper width and pace would help.

 

[Andycoleno9]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...gba-Mourinho-appear-odds-Bournemouth-win.html

I know it is daily mail and i should not post it, but this is unbelievable stuff. How can journos make a story from nothing it is beyond me

 

[Jim Beam]

Overall, he responded pretty well after the international break. Not only was he in awful form, but there were question marks about pretty much everything in the media (Sanchez salary, attitude, problems with Mourinho, a story about City). Nothing of that has to be the truth and it can still affect the player if he's mentally weak. Only a gut feeling, but think Carrick massively helps as it seems he took him under his own. Every player needs a different approach and Pogba doesn't seem that "run through the wall" type of player which Jose prefers.

West Brom game aside (which was in fairness absolute crap from everyone, so his tricks and flicks game became more highlighted), a big game performance and yesterday Pogba's was from the first half of the season. What I'm trying to say, he doesn't seem to be that prima donna type many people suggest and it's encouraging sign for the future.

 

[Jim Beam]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...gba-Mourinho-appear-odds-Bournemouth-win.html

I know it is daily mail and i should not post it, but this is unbelievable stuff. How can journos make a story from nothing it is beyond me

Absolute horseshit. Jose is nodding and clapping. He was subbed because he was saved for Spurs. And on top of that, Jose massively praised Pogba after the match.

Joke of a paper, regret every time I open it.

 

[Stacks]

Pogba has a quality game no doubt. The general consensus is that he needs to do these performance more frequently and also improve his bottom level to be a top player. Credit where credit is due, he ran things today. If you look at guys like prime Iniesta or Kaka, they would have at least a dozen games where they left us breathless, but they would seldom look a liability in any of the other matches. This is what we need from Pogba. not get settled, just doing it on occasion. Be the man, most the time. I still feel he is short of where we need him but he did the business today no doubt. Congrats to the lad

 

[Stacks]

Maybe I am being a bit too harsh. But watching the match I wasn't really blown away by his performance to say the least. And I still stand by him trying to do a bit too much at times with the flicks. Maybe it's just a pet hate of mine but I detest players doing a few step overs etc without really doing anything at all - which Pogba does!


Watching his individual highlights I still stand by that there is another level or two in his game. I mean he made a few good passes here and there, but he made few bad descisons as well. Anyway, for me, this is the absolute minimum he should be doing every game. Obviously, I don't expect him to assist every game etc. Assists can heavily pad the overall performance anyway, look at Mkhitaryan at the start of the season. Look as I was saying, with the player of his enormous talent, I fully believe that If he focuses, he can become unbelievable, Zidane level player.

this contributes to the disappointment. stop putting players of Zidane's caliber into this. Its unrealistic expectations. Zidane is a once in generation player. Pogba will do well to reach a Lampard, Gerrard or Yaya level. Zidane is different gravy. Its just because he dribbles and passes that people make the connection but its unrealistic.

 

[Jeppers7]

Was nice hearing Owen Hargreaves commentary of the game last night. Didn't set out with an agenda against Pogba. Balanced and positive. Took a view from the game in general, was there options, movement etc.

 

[TrueRed79]

Wanted Pogba here before he signed for us. Thought he would be a game changer. Very disappointed with him after two years. After that pathetic display against Newcastle, he has gone right down in my estimation and i honestly couldn't care less if he left.

 

[Laurentiu amt]

ESPN now reporting that PSG are in contact with Raiola for a summer transfer . It doesn't sound good or ESPN are BS'ing.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I just think the stuff he’s bad at is much easier to learn than the stuff he’s good at. In Michael Carrick he’s got the perfect teacher too. Couldn’t ask for a better Mr Miyagi.

I agree. Having started his career as an attacking midfielder, he also had to learn the defensive side to his game.

 

[NinjaFletch]

ESPN now reporting that PSG are in contact with Raiola for a summer transfer . It doesn't sound good or ESPN are BS'ing.

They're committeed to buying M'Bappe and are in FFP trouble. I find it hard to believe they have another 100m lying around.

Also this thread is about Pogba's performances.

 

[harms]

His assists stats are wrong. It should be 11 assists.

Based on?

 

[el3mel]

Based on?

He's right. He has 10 assists in the league and 1 in CL. The other 3 assists are either FKs he won and got scored or a deflection. IIRC Matic goal vs Palace and Zlatan goal vs Bristol has been counted as assists for him, and both are clearly aren't.

 

[elnorte]

Similar to what I said about Mourinho in the 2017/18 assessment thread it's too early to call time on Pogba. One more season to show he can justify the hype and fee paid for him. At this current venture it's simply way too big of a risk trying to find another potential superstar by selling the one we may already have.

 

[JohnnyKills]

I just think the stuff he’s bad at is much easier to learn than the stuff he’s good at. In Michael Carrick he’s got the perfect teacher too. Couldn’t ask for a better Mr Miyagi.

Yeah agree. Should be the perfect mentor for him

 

[ravi2]

Yeah agree. Should be the perfect mentor for him

And before carrick he played with pirlo for a few years