Yeah playing all 3, especially against anyone who's not top 6 is a waste. Herrera doesn't offer much going forward. We should play Pogba and one of Herrera/Matic against weaker opposition. Play Mikhi/Mata in the 10 position.
6
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He has consistently failed to dominate or even play well against the bigger teams. So it's not a one game thing. He has to learn to keep it simple sometimes. Tries to do everything himself, which is not good. So pointing that out is not changing opinion on a game by game basis.This place is insane, opinions on players change literally on a game by game basis
His performance video, again reality is lot different from the posts here. He made 2-3 mistakes, one is taking the shot when Mkhitaryan was in acres of space. Apart from that he kept the ball moving and played nice passes but somehow people think he tried lot of hollywood stuff.
Heat of the moment, people remember his one or two mistakes and use that to paint his whole game as shit.
It's also hard to dominate games when your whole team is static and you don't have anyone making runs to play the passes. Madrid whole team's off the ball runs are awesome and whole team is always on the move, easier to keep the ball moving knowing it's not a waste of possession.
As my earlier post, I think people just saw the contrast in speed of play from Pogba vs the Madrid midfielders, but didn't consider the big picture, the our surroundings ain't as good which Pogba is afforded with less options & has less trust on his teammates, giving a sense of overcomplicating thing, talking too long on the ball...
Exactly. Added that you're (Pogba) being focused for marked/pressed, while the Modric, Kroos got support to peel marker off more often than not.
Just not quite there yet, I'm expecting another frustrating season from him. Hope I'm wrong but just feels like we'll always be waiting for him to raise it a gear and he'll never quite make the top level.
Has all necessary tools to be a top top player. Apart from a good brain, that is. His decision-making is anything but clever.
He was extremely poor last night needs to step up this season if we have any chance of doing well in league or CL.
Okay, that doesn't look too bad.
Any top Euopean side, and Paul Pogba goes missing. Poor decision making, slow tempo and lack of coordination. He needs to improve so much to be considered World Class.
Think people are going overboard with the criticism. I saw an improvement in his play yesterday compared to the big games of last year where he was very very poor and clueless/timid.
Yesterday wasn't a great performance in terms of execution but it was full of promise.. you can tell that this three man midfield will bring out the best in him but we can't be playing with such mediocre wide men and expect him to provide all the drive. The team needs runners and wide threats and Paul's passing will benefit as a result. What was clear to see is that his fitness looks leaps and bounds better than last year, he looks much more nimble and assured in tight spaces and he was a threat in the final third.
He made some bad decisions so the composure needs working on but you could tell he was capable of causing damage to their side and considering how mediocre our attack was and how unthreatening our full backs are compared to Madrids attack.. I think Paul done a good job.
It's much easier to do what Kroos does when you are playing for a Legendary Bayern side and a legendary German National team and then you move to a European cup winning Real side. Not saying he himself hasn't been instrumental but he's always been surrounded by the best footballers in the world.
The heavy lifting we were expecting Pogba to do was on another level to Kroos duties which was just to keep the ball moving whereas Pogba was tasked with dictating the play as well as providing the drive and goal threat for the side outside of Lukaku and Mkhi.
Obviously I think Pogba enjoys having that star man midfielder role like Gerrard used to enjoy but it is bloody hard work especially against a side like Madrid and we should be careful before accusing him of not being world class after a slightly difficult performance for him last night .. not many midfielders in the game bring what Pogba does to the table and we should be thankful he's here and build a proper side around him not mid table level players.
Yesterday wasn't a great performance in terms of execution but it was full of promise.. you can tell that this three man midfield will bring out the best in him but we can't be playing with such mediocre wide men and expect him to provide all the drive. The team needs runners and wide threats and Paul's passing will benefit as a result. What was clear to see is that his fitness looks leaps and bounds better than last year, he looks much more nimble and assured in tight spaces and he was a threat in the final third.
He made some bad decisions so the composure needs working on but you could tell he was capable of causing damage to their side and considering how mediocre our attack was and how unthreatening our full backs are compared to Madrids attack.. I think Paul done a good job.
It's much easier to do what Kroos does when you are playing for a Legendary Bayern side and a legendary German National team and then you move to a European cup winning Real side. Not saying he himself hasn't been instrumental but he's always been surrounded by the best footballers in the world.
The heavy lifting we were expecting Pogba to do was on another level to Kroos duties which was just to keep the ball moving whereas Pogba was tasked with dictating the play as well as providing the drive and goal threat for the side outside of Lukaku and Mkhi.
Obviously I think Pogba enjoys having that star man midfielder role like Gerrard used to enjoy but it is bloody hard work especially against a side like Madrid and we should be careful before accusing him of not being world class after a slightly difficult performance for him last night .. not many midfielders in the game bring what Pogba does to the table and we should be thankful he's here and build a proper side around him not mid table level players.
He's quality but last night he was totally shown up but the incredible midfield of Madrid. He made a few mistakes and made the wrong choice of pass once or twice, people saying he wasn't that bad but we are comparing him to the likes of Modric who was absolutely flawless and ran the game.
He will improve and against smaller clubs he will boss it but it's clear he's not on the level of Kroos etc just yet. I can only remember one stand out moment from him which was drawing the foul from Ramos, and his only other mentionable moment was the header which lead to the Lukaku miss.
Overall wasnt good enough but he will be.
He will improve and against smaller clubs he will boss it but it's clear he's not on the level of Kroos etc just yet. I can only remember one stand out moment from him which was drawing the foul from Ramos, and his only other mentionable moment was the header which lead to the Lukaku miss.
Overall wasnt good enough but he will be.
Pogba constantly leaves space behind him which the other team exploits. Modric and Isco were constantly running in behind causing all kinds of problems for Darmian and Matic. Hopefully, Matic can do a job covering for Pogba this season because it's insane the amount of times Pogba is standing ball watching, ahead of the play, while the opposition are in a dangerous position in and around our area. You would think by now he would know better. Also how is it that he is so poor at defending set pieces. Really needs to work on these aspects of his game if he wants to be considered amongst that upper echelon of top class players in the world today.
I don't mind the mistakes, or the over flamboyancy. What concerns me is he isn't actually involved enough particularly in the big games. Last night he drifted towards the left wing when we really needed him to attempt to control the game in the middle. Always going to be difficult against that midfield but at the minute he is the opposite of what we need - someone to control the tempo of the game and to demand the ball.
As soon as he took that shot instead of looking to play in Lingard or Mkhi you knew he was going to get slammed, but he also did quite a few good things too and certainly made an impact. For me Herrera was far more disappointing.
Yeah, know that would be the case. Thankfully we have performance video where we can check them when we are calm and not in the heat of the moment when the game is going on when every small thing is exaggerated.
He does look like a highlights player at the moment. Capable of the sublime but doesn't do the simple or stamp authority on games enough. Surely this will come with experience, I hope..
It wasn't. He's just not good at decision making. He's not a good number 10 and never has been. Needs to play deep and let a proper goal threat take his place. Unlike Madrid, we don't have midfielders or defenders who can score goals so we need a no.10 who can.
I'm a huge fan of him but if he doesn't take part in 15-20 goals directly this season I would be disappointed.
Just don't play him in number 10 for gods sake !
Just don't play him in number 10 for gods sake !
He had a poor game but people go overboard. He's still a brilliant player, immense talent
Maybe time to change what we expect from him. It's obvious he hasn't got the shoulders to carry the team (yet) as he still finds it hard to separate when to go for the flashy moves and when to keep it simple. Maybe it's about time he realizes he doesn't or cannot do it Rambo style and just needs to dial it down on the hero syndrome. He needs to mature, he plays pro football like it's a street game at times.
Did that happen against Madrid? He played simple game and barely even tried hollywood stuff except shooting from distance and ignoring Mkhitaryan.
This place is insane, opinions on players change literally on a game by game basis
Most of what I've seen is about his decision making, which was consistently mentioned last season?
Did't help that he was surrounded by static wide men and Herrera was clearly unfit.
I think the whole team struggled with the humidity (apart from Valencia who's a machine) We clearly perked up after the water breaks every time.
I don't think our tactics defensively help him/us either. Sitting off and trying to contain isn't natural, he's much better when he can go and press. We need to use a higher defensive line. They kept backing away and leaving gaps between the midfield.
I think the whole team struggled with the humidity (apart from Valencia who's a machine) We clearly perked up after the water breaks every time.
I don't think our tactics defensively help him/us either. Sitting off and trying to contain isn't natural, he's much better when he can go and press. We need to use a higher defensive line. They kept backing away and leaving gaps between the midfield.
The players supposed to lift the team and make the difference are wide forwards followed by strikers. These are the positions where all the players who create the difference for their teams in the world are there: Hazard, Sanchez, Neymar etc.
The midfielder is a part of the system and part of creating some chances but on his own Pogba won't carry the team alone. His position doesn't allow him imo. He'll excel with very good wide forwards surrounding him so he has different targets to play with, but expecting him to carry the team on upfront as the superstar is unrealistic. The superstar should be in the attack. Pogba is a part of the team system and that's it. Modric didn't dominate the midfield on his own and he has Kroos besides him and has great wide forwards and wingers with him.
Pogba didn't have his best match yesterday that's for sure, but the only time I was really frustrated with him was the counter he spoiled, other than this was a normal performance that lacked cohesion with other players.
He'll have a very good season but at the same time we need to accept the fact he's not the player supposed to carry the team alone in the attack. We need a super wide forward to do this, which makes the failure to sign Griezmann so frustrating.
The midfielder is a part of the system and part of creating some chances but on his own Pogba won't carry the team alone. His position doesn't allow him imo. He'll excel with very good wide forwards surrounding him so he has different targets to play with, but expecting him to carry the team on upfront as the superstar is unrealistic. The superstar should be in the attack. Pogba is a part of the team system and that's it. Modric didn't dominate the midfield on his own and he has Kroos besides him and has great wide forwards and wingers with him.
Pogba didn't have his best match yesterday that's for sure, but the only time I was really frustrated with him was the counter he spoiled, other than this was a normal performance that lacked cohesion with other players.
He'll have a very good season but at the same time we need to accept the fact he's not the player supposed to carry the team alone in the attack. We need a super wide forward to do this, which makes the failure to sign Griezmann so frustrating.
So he is no Cesc, Gerrard or Lampard then who IMO excelled without super wide players in various Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool teams and were comfortably carrying the midfield and large parts of the attacking play? I'm fine with that but I am still very much confused then as to what his role will be and why he should be regarded one of the best of his generation? I mean if we play 2 other CM players to free him up, and he is described as a goal scoring midfielder then your downplaying of his role sounds a bit off key.
I do blame him for not making that pass to Mkhitaryan. But he created that chance entirely on his own skill and I am aware of that as well.
He is getting far too much criticism over here for making mistakes and yet we saw Modric and Kroos make mistakes as well. On multiple occasions our players just eased Modric off the ball like he wasn't even there. Kroos' mistake really should have cost them a goal. It's just a part of the game really.
I wasn't expecting such OTT comments against him.
He is getting far too much criticism over here for making mistakes and yet we saw Modric and Kroos make mistakes as well. On multiple occasions our players just eased Modric off the ball like he wasn't even there. Kroos' mistake really should have cost them a goal. It's just a part of the game really.
I wasn't expecting such OTT comments against him.
He's a very different player from Lampard to start with, and his play style is also different from the ticki taka Cesc learned at Barce, and he's not actually a goal scoring midfielder, who said this ? Pogba goal scoring records at Juve were 9,10,10 and last season with us was 9, so his normal range of goals per season is 9-10 goals at best. He's a more of chance creator midfielder. He needs player around him and on the wide flanks to get use of his passes and score. If you expect him to bang 20 goals as Lampard you'll be disappointed. He's not like Lampard at all. His strengths are his passes, throughs and long passes, so we need players to utilize these.
He's not going to score 20 goals as Lampard, but he can get you +10 assists in the league alone with the right players upfront.
thats fine but I feel a youthful Cesc 21-24 was far better at this role also which is why I mentioned his name. Its no shame because Cesc was truely class and in many ways resembled Toni Kroos today
Obviously one match changes nothing, Pogba is still that highlight player and he did more than that opportunity he shot instead of passing. You can see it in his game, this "I'm the best and I'll show it in a cool way" attitude.
The only issue with him is an easily fixable one. The dwelling on the ball. Fecking move it a bit faster or move us up the pitch.
That video just highlights the problem. Not just with Pogba but the state of our attacking play. It's all just one pass from Pogba before it's another clip a few minutes later after a move has broken down straight away. We need him to be knitting our play together and moving the attack forward if he's going to play in an advanced role.
There is a long season ahead, he is an incredible talent and I think Matic will defo free him up and hopefully he defines himself further up the pitch and scores more goals, don't forget he is still relatively young and no longer bears the burden of the World's most expensive player, he will be fine and I expect him to kick on this season.
Behave. His decision-making is sometimes poor. He's certainly not an unintelligent footballer. Lets try to maintain some perspective please.
Well when more often than not he's making the incorrect decision, you could argue his decision making is generally poor. He's not the dumbest player around, but he's certainly no where near the smartest. That'll come with experience though.
Last season his game changed as the season progressed. He kept the game simple with less flashy stuff.
Anyways my initial point was just about Madrid game.
How much more experience will make him finally click ? I mean he's already won multiple titles, been to a CL final, won the EL and reached the Euro final. I don't think more experience will be the key of his development, it just has to come from him. As a comparison, Verratti started to play like an experienced old player as soon as he arrived at PSG.
He is more mature as a player even if he still has his moments of insanity.
He needs to get his mind in the right place, he has all the physical tools and talents.
Hopefully addition of Matić will free him up offensively and I don't expect that transition to be done after a single game, it will take some time.
Hopefully not too much time.
Hopefully addition of Matić will free him up offensively and I don't expect that transition to be done after a single game, it will take some time.
Hopefully not too much time.
I agree with this. As I said to @kouroux earlier, his biggest flaw is one you typically associate with immaturity. So we have to be hopeful that experience will solve it. Pre-season has been frustrating because there's been glimpses of him taking that step up we need him to take (Barca) only to regress back to the more flawed performances we saw last season. What is particularly worrying is that these two flawed performances came alongside the sort of midfielder that a lot of people thought we needed to get the best out of Pogba (i.e. Matic)
I've always maintained that the biggest obstacle to Pogba being a world-beater, is Pogba himself. I've seen nothing in pre-season to change that opinion, unfortunately.
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