Took a while to get going but thought he was fantastic in second half. Big performance.
And Souness can go enjoy the pleasure of his own company the tosser.
And Souness can go enjoy the pleasure of his own company the tosser.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 16
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Very mature performance. Added everything that this team desperately needed. He was driving forward, creating space, covering the ground and retaining possesion. His defensive contribution was very good too.
Indeed sometimes less is definately better.
Indeed sometimes less is definately better.
Ok I can bring up a single example too.
I'm a Pogba fan. But I'm only going from the games they've faced each other, Pogba on the whole has struggled against him
@roonster09 just to supplement the video below is a comparison of his heat map vs Spurs and compared to Chelsea.. world of difference, much more structured and disciplined from Pogba... sticking to the left, and playing a proper role for the side rather than just ambling around where he wants.
TOTTENHAM
CHELSEA
Here's hoping any disagreements there were between manager and player have now been put to bed, which was expected tbh and everyone can get on board with him hopefully developing into a world class attacking midfielder.
TOTTENHAM
CHELSEA
Here's hoping any disagreements there were between manager and player have now been put to bed, which was expected tbh and everyone can get on board with him hopefully developing into a world class attacking midfielder.
Thought he was far better than Kante yesterday but the Caf-Kante-love-in continues, I see. Kante, this season, is a shadow of the player he was last season and the season before.
@roonster09 just to supplement the video below is a comparison of his heat map vs Spurs and compared to Chelsea.. world of difference, much more structured and disciplined from Pogba... sticking to the left, and playing a proper role for the side rather than just ambling around where he wants.
TOTTENHAM
CHELSEA
Here's hoping any disagreements there were between manager and player have now been put to bed, which was expected tbh and everyone can get on board with him hopefully developing into a world class attacking midfielder.
Also one more positive is Jose has started with 3 man midfield in the last 3 games, so looks like we are shifting towards that now.
Kante is very overrated. Pogba was always going to dominate him.
Kante is much more limited than some are willing to accept. His engine, ball winning and tenacity are exceptional but he needs a proper ball player beside him. Kante is a functional passer but lacks vision and any real creativity, also has a tendency to choose poor options and put the receiver into a bad spot. Drinkwater not really the ideal partner for him in a big game, but Fabregas has regressed to the point where he is a liability against the better teams.
Allowed Utd to key in on Willian and Hazard, as they had very little else to hurt Utd with.
Yup, but some still have this weird obsession with him and are trying to claim he was better than Pogba yesterday.
Yup. Jose gets called pragmatic, but at his best.. he's not stubborn to the extreme, the pragmatist in him knows that tactically, leaving Pogba there is just not going to work long term. Fundamentally, it was leaving us defensively unstructured.. which Jose hates, so just didn't make sense to just keep putting him there. Glad he's moved on from it, and hopefully the fans can accept that look sometimes he does get it wrong but he has the wherewithal to change it up. Deserves some credit for that.
Bodes well for the CL. Next step is re-integrating Bailly into the side, and getting the best out of Sanchez/Martial/Lingard/Rashford behind Lukaku.
McTominay I really like, just because he gives the midfield more legs and some tactical discipline.. lifts some weight off Matic's shoulders too.
@roonster09 just to supplement the video below is a comparison of his heat map vs Spurs and compared to Chelsea.. world of difference, much more structured and disciplined from Pogba... sticking to the left, and playing a proper role for the side rather than just ambling around where he wants.
TOTTENHAM
CHELSEA
Here's hoping any disagreements there were between manager and player have now been put to bed, which was expected tbh and everyone can get on board with him hopefully developing into a world class attacking midfielder.
That's what you took from it?
He was clearly in a different setup tactically with an extra midfielder in McTominay doing the work on the right:
Pogba heatmap:
McTominay:
You can see from that, it's obvious that the "structure and discipline from Pogba" you speak of was more a case of having a more defined role within the tactics.
That's what you took from it?
He was clearly in a different setup tactically with an extra midfielder in McTominay doing the work on the right:
Pogba heatmap:
McTominay:
You can see from that, it's obvious that the "structure and discipline from Pogba" you speak of was more a case of having a more defined role within the tactics.
Well duh.. I don't really get your point. I was saying the same thing.
Its more disciplined from Pogba because the manager has set up the team to play him where he wants down the left, and the system forces Pogba to play in a structure rather than giving him leeway to just go where he wants.
Finding an argument here which doesn't even exist.
Yeah agree with that. Jose is not stubborn and he has proved it with various players when CAF wrote them off as he is not in Jose's "inner circle" or "bad books". Even tactically he is flexible, he came up with few laughable points that he played 4-3-3 with Lingard as 8 which was just a covering job but I'm happy at least he made the change with 3 midfielders.
It helped Matic also as he had one more player who worked hard and provided defensive cover. When we are fully comfortable it will help players like Martial, Sanchez who don't have to drop too deep to help defense.
There was a good change in Pogba's game. He played like he was given a role or proper instructions. He kept the ball moving forward quickly and he played so many good weighted passes to attacking players quickly which gave them chance to attack defenders one on one.
"much more structured and disciplined from Pogba... sticking to the left, and playing a proper role for the side rather than just ambling around where he wants"
That's what I took issue with, perhaps you didn't mean it as I read it, but I took that as you thinking he'd pulled his finger out and actually did what was asked of him rather than just bimbling about doing what he pleases. If that was the case I disagree with it, I think he was in a more defined role with less area to cover and and less responsibility/expectation.
I don't think he "just goes where he wants" as you put it, suggesting he's doing whatever he prefers to do, I just think when he's in a two he gets spread to thin and finds it difficult to dominate the game. With too much responsibility he doesn't get the opportunity to get into dangerous positions and impact the game.
Yeah I agree with all that, think it is a misunderstanding stemming from how I initially put it.
Pogba's proper position is a big talking point.He seems to be a player who can play anywhere in midfield.a no. 6 , 8 or 10.I think he should try him as no. 6.
The position of viera or keane.He still can run the show if his defensive qualities are good.He also has the physical attributes.I sometime think why not switch positions with matic.
The position of viera or keane.He still can run the show if his defensive qualities are good.He also has the physical attributes.I sometime think why not switch positions with matic.
King Pogba is a born winner. He can win any thing he wants as long as he put his heart to it. Look at how last year he won the Europa and League cup for United.
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Pogba has proved on many occasions he does not perform well defensively for us.
Plus he is 10x better at attacking than defending, so I say leave him further up the pitch. The balance in midfield with 3 is much better, doesn't isolate Matic so much.
Pogba at this stage, doesn't have the discipline or maturity to run a game like Keane or Viera.
Pogba won them all on his own did he? Bit OTT, he's been dreadful for weeks and while he put in a better performance yesterday, he's not quite the "king" yet.
A fair criticism, but what about the fact that would Keane and Viera be able to control a game like Pogba potentially could in the final third? do they have his flair or explosivity going forwards? no.
He can do certain things they can't and vice versa.
I take your point on board and tend to agree, at this stage we need to play to pogba's strength, hence I said leaving him up the pitch and shoring up the midfield by going to a 3 to leave less defensive work for Pogba.
Agreed. Just saying it's a common criticism of Pogba to compare him to those two but I think it's a silly comparison because I just don't think he's the same type of player to them. He is more of an artist and they're more warrior types. He's better going forwards and they're better deeper in the heart of the midfield battle.
Never been convinced that there are any problems between Pogba and Mourinho. 99% paper talk imo. Mourinho has to manage Pogba's ego as well as everything else. Dropping/resting him for the odd game doesnt do any harm, and a fired up Pogba can only be good for us. Once he got into his stride yesterday he was superb. There's no one like him, so all this "where's his best position" bollox doesnt have an answer, he plays where he wants, and as long as he does some defending Mou will be happy
Started badly, as did everyone, but grew into the game and by the end he was playing well.
Hopefully he sorts out his issues with Jose now. We need Pogba fit and playing well.
Hopefully he sorts out his issues with Jose now. We need Pogba fit and playing well.
I disagree with the "he plays where he wants" part of this.
That was the issue in his displays previously, he wasn't where he was supposed to be to the detriment of the team!
Changing to a midfield 3 is the best fix, allows the midfield to be more compact and solid. Gets some of the defensive burden off Pogba.
If we had played matic and pogba in a midfield 2 yesterday, we'd have been steamrolled in midfield again
Started off slow and looked a little disenchanted, but grew into the game and improved drastically in the second half.
He also done something in yesterdays game that I've been advocating for some time: keep things simple! He's at his best when he does this. Not holding onto the ball for way too long and encouraging the tackle, not trying to make things about him and over complicating the situation. Just keep it moving, find some space, and use the intelligence that he has to great effect. He has arrogance on the pitch and that's great, but it can sometimes manifest itself into something that's detrimental to the team.
He didn't do that yesterday for the most part and he, and the team, benefited greatly from it.
He also done something in yesterdays game that I've been advocating for some time: keep things simple! He's at his best when he does this. Not holding onto the ball for way too long and encouraging the tackle, not trying to make things about him and over complicating the situation. Just keep it moving, find some space, and use the intelligence that he has to great effect. He has arrogance on the pitch and that's great, but it can sometimes manifest itself into something that's detrimental to the team.
He didn't do that yesterday for the most part and he, and the team, benefited greatly from it.
Yes I concede that completely. If we're to see his attacking talent, then someone (or two as it was yesterday) has to do the defending. So not completely allowed to roam free, but he has to have an amount of freedom to do his damage
Power, finesse, drive, discipline - even got stuck in with that excellent challenge on Willian. Looked in his element at left sided CAM so hope to see more of this system, out midfield looked much better for it too with Tom and Matic.
Technically, he has the attributes to be the worlds best... but he seems to be too focused on the materialistic things to ever reach that potential.
When Pogba’s on the pitch, it’s always about everything that isn’t football; what celebration he’s done, what haircut he’s got this week, what boots he’s wearing, etc.
In order for him to reach that Zidane level, which I honestly think he’s capable of... he has to grow up a little bit. And trust me I’m a massive fan of his, I’d be gutted to see him go but look at the maturity level of McTominay for example. He looks like a “man” already and he’s only just a kid. Pogba and Lingard are years behind him on that front.
When Pogba’s on the pitch, it’s always about everything that isn’t football; what celebration he’s done, what haircut he’s got this week, what boots he’s wearing, etc.
In order for him to reach that Zidane level, which I honestly think he’s capable of... he has to grow up a little bit. And trust me I’m a massive fan of his, I’d be gutted to see him go but look at the maturity level of McTominay for example. He looks like a “man” already and he’s only just a kid. Pogba and Lingard are years behind him on that front.
He is a completely different player with 2 DM's alongside him in midfield. He isn't free from defensive duties but he is able to get forward more consistently and try things he wouldn't be able to do otherwise in a pivot. What we need now is a proper attacking LB with good crossing ability and Pogba will be even more dangerous on that left hand side. At Juventus he had first Evra and then Alex Sandro and here has Young who keeps cutting inside. Its not the same. I'd love Shaw to be that player but Jose doesn't seem to rate him ahead of Young which is a shame.
I'll be honest, after watching the match I didn't think it was his best big game performance, thought he was better against Ajax, Arsenal away this season and Chelsea at home last season to be honest. That said, it was a solid and mature performance, did what he was asked and did it well.
rip
Nice! I must have missed that during the game. Kante looks like a child next to Pogba
Nice! I must have missed that during the game. Kante looks like a child next to Pogba
They spent a lot of time together during that match and I kept telling myself that it was hilarious how bigger Pogba was particularly when you think about the fact that he is the technical player.
https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/real-madrid/pogba-madrid-nunca-digas-nunca-6664444
(in Spanish)
So there's a bit of a nothing story in the Sport today about Pogba with quotes from Raiola, thought I'd post it anyway. Says "Will I take Pogba to Madrid? Never say never." But then follows that up by saying he's not a taxi driver and he doesn't take anyone anywhere Also says "Paul hasn't asked me for anything for now. He's a player that doesn't disappear from a club having won nothing." Then finally says that stories about a rift between Pogba and Mourinho are not true.
So yeah, as you were, basically
(in Spanish)
So there's a bit of a nothing story in the Sport today about Pogba with quotes from Raiola, thought I'd post it anyway. Says "Will I take Pogba to Madrid? Never say never." But then follows that up by saying he's not a taxi driver and he doesn't take anyone anywhere
Also says "Paul hasn't asked me for anything for now. He's a player that doesn't disappear from a club having won nothing." Then finally says that stories about a rift between Pogba and Mourinho are not true.So yeah, as you were, basically
He isn’t. I have seen enough of Kante this season to see that he does exactly what he always does. He is not the one that scores or creates the goals, that’s Chelsea’s issue above all.
Pogba already won Europa and league cup.https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/real-madrid/pogba-madrid-nunca-digas-nunca-6664444
(in Spanish)
So there's a bit of a nothing story in the Sport today about Pogba with quotes from Raiola, thought I'd post it anyway. Says "Will I take Pogba to Madrid? Never say never." But then follows that up by saying he's not a taxi driver and he doesn't take anyone anywhere
So yeah, as you were, basically
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Yeah but I doubt that's what he or the club are after long term. Doubt Raiola was being literal
Some good stuff from Sky
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ilemma-for-jose-mourinho-at-manchester-united
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ilemma-for-jose-mourinho-at-manchester-united
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