In truth, we don't have a clue how we set up to play against them as they scored after 11 seconds. We responded well which I think is the 15 minute period you are referring to but against this current Spurs side, it's difficult to get back into the game with a deficit.
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In truth, we don't have a clue how we set up to play against them as they scored after 11 seconds. We responded well which I think is the 15 minute period you are referring to but against this current Spurs side, it's difficult to get back into the game with a deficit.
There's plenty of doubt if you understand that papers just make things up 90% of the time. Pogba being on the bench allowed them to put out a whole new round of gossip thats all.
Well the team selection was a pretty good clue!
Just going to shoot down this fabrication of Fergie being right about what he never said. He never let Pogba go or had a problem with Pogba. He despised his agent for encouraging him to leave for more playing time. Evn tried to have senior squad members talk him into staying in the final days.
If you want to talk about track records, Jose is the one who keeps falling out with his best players over the same issue. Hazard has been taking passive agressive shots at Jose since he was Chelsea manager. Once said Chelsea don't set up to play football, they only try to counter and we're seeing the exact same now
Exactly. This rewriting history about SAF and Pogba is hilarious. It's Pogba who left on free, not SAF who sold him.
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Somehow they did the exact same thing against Barcelona.
When did Hazard say that? the year when he won POTY?
I think the lack of effort was more obvious in the Spurs game. I felt the Newcastle game was a poor performance. His performance in the Spurs game was one of the most disappointing by a United player that I can remember.
I agree that it's on him and he isn't being harshly treated. I just hope that eventually he does too.
"Chelsea aren't set up to play football,"
"Chelsea are set up to counter-attack - a little bit like Real against Bayern.
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...lsea-exit-champions-league-to-atletico-madrid
Here's a more recent one talking about how Conte brought better organisation to their attack
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/eden-hazard-chelsea-conte-mourinho-11195923
I agree it was an attacking side on paper but if you think about it logically that wasn't a side picked to dominate the game and attack relentlessly by any stretch. It was a smash and grab selection.
The plan will have been to concede the midfield, have Pogba and Matic central protecting the defence and throw players forward at breakneck speed when we get a chance. Young was clearly picked to flank Sanchez who had freedom to move centrally and Martial preferred over Mata on the right because we were more interested in exploiting space in behind than holding on to the ball.
As soon as we conceded that plan was out the window. It allowed Spurs to toy with our midfield as the pressure was on us to get possession and make something rather than them.
Dier sat deeper and allowed their centre backs the luxury of tracking Lukaku completely stifling any chance we had to play it long and bypass the midfield. They then overloaded the wings with Son, Alli and Erikson rotating and fullbacks supporting which forced Pogba out wide. Pogba himself had Dembele shadowing him and making sure he didn't get any opportunity to get in the game. That left Matic basically out of the game in the horrible position of covering a large area while trying to pick up three players ghosting in and out of that space.
That single goal basically made Lingard's inclusion the wrong move. In hindsight he should have brought on Fellaini for Lingard after about 30 minutes because there was zero point in him being on by then.
Now you’re putting words in someone’s mouth. Ironic after the comment about Fergie and Pogba. Hazard didn’t mention their attack. In fact, the only specific mention of any area of the pitch related to his defensive work.
He was referring to both. Replace 'better organisatiom to the attack' with 'better organisation to the team' then. That wasn't intended to be the sticking point of my post (his history of throwing jabs at Mourinho)
Edit BTW here's the interview
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/761863/Chelsea-News-Eden-Hazard-Antonio-Conte-Jose-Mourinho
"In tactics and training we do more with Conte. We know exactly what to do. With Mourinho, he put in a system but we didn't work lots. We know what to do because we play football, but maybe the automatisms were a little bit different."
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Of course there is doubt. Almost all the tabloids are using The Sun as their source.
Is there a possibility that he's suffered a slight dip in form? Add the reported illness and huzzah, a couple of under par performances followed by a solid outing on Wednesday. Back into the starting XI on Sunday, plays well, we beat Chelsea and everyone's a winner. Turns out Pogba isn't an elephant but the dog's bollocks.
At 1h 24minutes in kieron Dyer talks about how his mind set was terrible due to thinking he should be playing a different position. I can easily imagine the same with pogba.
I'm a huge fan and think he's a fantastic player. I would be lying though if I said there aren't some worrying signs with him of late, though.
Maybe Pogba and Rom both share these illusions. Pogba maybe thinks he should be a Messi type of player and Rom says he studies all the world class strikers. In reality, they are both very tall and strong players. Pogba could be a midfield dominator and Rom could be an excellent target man. Pogba won't become a Messi and Rom won't ever be anything like some silky number 9.
Roll on the big game on Sunday. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to see it. I've given Pogba plenty of grief in this thread, and I'll continue to do so if I think he's under-performing, or not giving enough effort.
But let's hope that he comes out on Sunday and gives us the performance we know he's capable of, drives us to a huge victory. I live in hope!
But let's hope that he comes out on Sunday and gives us the performance we know he's capable of, drives us to a huge victory. I live in hope!
Besides DDG, Pogba is the best outfield player. He's the most creative and always look to attack. Very different from some players who always play it safe and pass sideway or backwards. Pogba will walk into first 11 of any team if he stays positive in attitude.
Mourinho's comments at his press conference are pretty positive, although he was positive about Shaw as well and then dropped him as soon as Young came back. Hopefully he'll be back in the team for this game, we'll need him to really step up if we're to have a chance this weekend.
Jose's gunna feck this up isn't he?
Is he going to start on Sunday? If he doesn’t it’s safe to say it’s only going to end one way.
Oh how we could do with a big performance with Pogba grabbing all the headlines, that would shut the whole thing down.
Oh how we could do with a big performance with Pogba grabbing all the headlines, that would shut the whole thing down.
I've just read that. Had to agree with Carragher here.
Carragher is right with this part. We had said it previously a lot anyway. No way in hell there's a midfielder that has full freedom without doing defensive work.
I think it's a case of Pogba catching up with the reputation he's acquired!
A few weeks ago - yes, a few weeks (!!!) - many were comparing KdB and Pogba. I am a huge Pogba-fan, but I did well admit that KdB is having a world-class season. But this is Man Utd for you, that’s why it will never be easy for players like Mkhitaryan and let’s say Alli and Eriksen to just stroll in and copy what they have done elsewhere. Earlier in the season, Eriksen dozed off and didn’t deliver much over a month or two, before returning lately of course. Alli has been pretty average relative to this overhyped reputation, not delivering the goals everyone expected him to. What happened? Absolutely nothing - nobody cares about Tottenham and you are free to find you way back to standards. Which is good for them of course. Same with Ramsey, even Hazard, Mané and so forth.
Pogba is part of the animal and show that’s Man United, no matter how good we are, or not, the attention is ten-fold.
I will go back to where I started, it’s only a few weeks since Pogba was hailed for both goals and assists. He is still near the top in terns of assists with way less playing time. Give him the benefit of the doubt and shut the hell up, there are too many theories and stupid people jumping to conclusions. I for one hope that he will come back strongly and deliver a few good games for us, it’s usually what makes people stay away from threads like this and forget what they said.
It’s not possible to deny Pogba’s level - I have seen him dominate games in a way only he and a few selected players can do.
Pogba is part of the animal and show that’s Man United, no matter how good we are, or not, the attention is ten-fold.
I will go back to where I started, it’s only a few weeks since Pogba was hailed for both goals and assists. He is still near the top in terns of assists with way less playing time. Give him the benefit of the doubt and shut the hell up, there are too many theories and stupid people jumping to conclusions. I for one hope that he will come back strongly and deliver a few good games for us, it’s usually what makes people stay away from threads like this and forget what they said.
It’s not possible to deny Pogba’s level - I have seen him dominate games in a way only he and a few selected players can do.
"He is perceived as a ‘box-to-box’ midfielder but the reality is he is not good enough in either box."
Carragher is absolutely ruthless here, and unfortunately correct.
King pogba is creative and always look to give the through ball. He runs faster than Ozil and can shoot and head better.
Pogba is actually one of the top midfielders around. Better than Ozil or Dembele or Eriksson.
Pogba is actually one of the top midfielders around. Better than Ozil or Dembele or Eriksson.
Absolutely spot on from him , despite being scouser he is one of level headed pundit out there.
There is no CM in this world , in this history of football whom are free from defensive duty , whole "free pogba" by putting top DM beside him so he doesn't need to defend at all are bollocks
Against spurs , pogba should be the first player to try to stop dembele , but instead he just let him float around the pitch freely afraid of challenging him.
he should cover some ground , close passing option , intercept , tracking back , made a tackle , marking his man and so on that's how a CM should play. Probably only cr7 and messi can be excluded from defensive job since they cause so much damage as attacking player
We were able to play with midfield 2 with scholes/keane or scholes & Carrick , because they both did all the job , scholes was lumping in tackle around try to win the ball while carrick intercept & close oppo passing option.
Pogba only stroll around when we didn't have the ball nowadays & that's unacceptable
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Let's be fair, Pogba did play alright in the pivot when the season started. He was tackling, chasing and running around covering grounds. I've no idea why his performance dropped off.
To say that he is asking to be indulged is a tad bit over board. I agree that Pogba is often unaware of runners behind him and this isn't something that a midfielder should do. Furthermore, his tendency to vacate his central midfield position and roam forward is a big problem for us.
To say that he is asking to be indulged is a tad bit over board. I agree that Pogba is often unaware of runners behind him and this isn't something that a midfielder should do. Furthermore, his tendency to vacate his central midfield position and roam forward is a big problem for us.
Judging a midfielder by goals scored is such a stereotypical thing from a British pundit.
As usual clueless from Carragher and it's laughable he even cites his analysis from last season when Jose himself said bypass the midfield andb play long so Pogba had to run forward at every chance either for header or second ball.
It's a shame these guys are paid to write when he doesn't even know the difference in set up and roles playing for Pep and Jose.
As usual Carragher talks nonsense and some buy it. Imagine if Iniesta was English, these pundits would have called him not good enough for not scoring goals and not being defensively stronger.
Yeah everyone is saying Pogba should play free role, not part of midfield 3 where he can attack more than defend.
And I have a feeling Iniesta would not look as good in a double pivot in a Mourinho system.
Last few games , I think Pogba had poor games , even Sevilla one , which Jose labelled as good performance from Pogba.
As a midfielder , he should be pressing harder and closing space but he looked uninterested in doing either. For me, he should be doing a lot more than what he is doing in these recent games.
But certainly Pogba has abilities to be very top. I have seen very few midfielders that are as complete as Pogba. It's natural to have some off games. I think Pogba will start performing to his usual best soon and we all move forward. We need Pogba.
As a midfielder , he should be pressing harder and closing space but he looked uninterested in doing either. For me, he should be doing a lot more than what he is doing in these recent games.
But certainly Pogba has abilities to be very top. I have seen very few midfielders that are as complete as Pogba. It's natural to have some off games. I think Pogba will start performing to his usual best soon and we all move forward. We need Pogba.
I'm around to thinking the guy is a Billy BigTime arsehole I'm afraid, unless he's carrying an injury they want to keep quiet going into the business end of the season.
Plenty of ability - should be dominating, should be doing his share of the work. We've seen occasional glimpses & the problem is allegedly that the team isn't revolving around him deployed in a specific role quite enough.
Oh well.
Plenty of ability - should be dominating, should be doing his share of the work. We've seen occasional glimpses & the problem is allegedly that the team isn't revolving around him deployed in a specific role quite enough.
Oh well.
You’ve got to love how people’s assumptions have been projected on to Pogba as if it’s a fact and he’s actually come out in a press conference and said he doesn’t want to do the defensive work.
What’s actually happened is a circular arguement over the past 6 weeks that pundits and fans alike have contributed to. It started with Pogba being “lazy”, then Mourinho using him wrong and that he needs to play in a three, then Rooney came out and said he needs to play “box to box so he doesn’t have any defensive responsibility” (I mean for feck sake), then Mourinho laughed off the idea that a midfielder could be in a role with no defensive responsibility, then Pogba is dropped and then ill and here we are a few weeks later with pundits and fans acting like Pogba is the one who is demanding to play in a three with no defensive responsibility.
If you go back to the end of December when Scholes said Pogba was “just strolling around and not doing the defensive work”, Mourinho called him out on it and said it was bullshit.
I think it really is as simple as a run of bad form compounded by illness. His languid reggee infused running style is mistaken for casualness.
What’s actually happened is a circular arguement over the past 6 weeks that pundits and fans alike have contributed to. It started with Pogba being “lazy”, then Mourinho using him wrong and that he needs to play in a three, then Rooney came out and said he needs to play “box to box so he doesn’t have any defensive responsibility” (I mean for feck sake), then Mourinho laughed off the idea that a midfielder could be in a role with no defensive responsibility, then Pogba is dropped and then ill and here we are a few weeks later with pundits and fans acting like Pogba is the one who is demanding to play in a three with no defensive responsibility.
If you go back to the end of December when Scholes said Pogba was “just strolling around and not doing the defensive work”, Mourinho called him out on it and said it was bullshit.
I think it really is as simple as a run of bad form compounded by illness. His languid reggee infused running style is mistaken for casualness.
Pogba needs to make it as a #10, it’s as simple as that. It’s what he wants, where he needs to deliver, and what we need to realise cos he ain’t no fecking midfielder.
Do you reckon he's good enough to play as a ten? I'm not convinced.
He's very leggy which is what worries me, sometimes he can be great in tight spaces but just as often he is easily dispossessed. On top of that I don't think he'd neccesarily score enough goals to warrant being a full time attacker.
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