Patrick Dorgu | United in talks

Scholsey2004 said:
I suppose the counter-argument there is that if he was at BVB or Leipzig then he'd be more proven. He's not though, he's very young and very raw and we're operating on the possibility of him reaching an entirely hypothetical ceiling. I'm tempted to suggest that we promote a youngster for the remainder of the league season, which is basically over already. Someone like Mantato for instance.
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I think if he was at BvB or Leipzig he'd be playing in more dominant teams compared to the one he's currently playing in. That likely would've given us a better insight on the potential of the player. We have Christopher Vivell leading on recruitment at the club and if he feels that he's convinced with Dorgu's abilities in the mid to long-term then I think it would be logical to go ahead and sign the player if possible.

I feel the biggest difference will be made by signing a midfielder or two who actually move the needle when it comes to controlling games in and out of possession. I don't believe Ugarte was the right player for us in that regard and we need better midfielders imo.

Mantato is a very interesting young prospect but I'm not sure Amorim will feel that he's ready to contribute at a high enough level right now.
 
Adnan said:
I think if he was at BvB or Leipzig he'd be playing in more dominant teams compared to the one he's currently playing in. That likely would've given us a better insight on the potential of the player. We have Christopher Vivell leading on recruitment at the club and if he feels that he's convinced with Dorgu's abilities in the mid to long-term then I think it would be logical to go ahead and sign the player if possible.

I feel the biggest difference will be made by signing a midfielder or two who actually move the needle when it comes to controlling games in and out of possession. I don't believe Ugarte was the right player for us in that regard and we need better midfielders imo.

Mantato is a very interesting young prospect but I'm not sure Amorim will feel that he's ready to contribute at a high enough level right now.
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Re Mantato I'd agree that's a risk but it's a risk on a soon to be 18 year old we already own vs a 20 year old we don't. Neither are currently established. . And there are other players in the youth setup other than Mantato. Vivell's reputation is good so I suppose we have to hope he's got it right on this lad.
 
Adnan said:
I think if he was at BvB or Leipzig he'd be playing in more dominant teams compared to the one he's currently playing in. That likely would've given us a better insight on the potential of the player. We have Christopher Vivell leading on recruitment at the club and if he feels that he's convinced with Dorgu's abilities in the mid to long-term then I think it would be logical to go ahead and sign the player if possible.

I feel the biggest difference will be made by signing a midfielder or two who actually move the needle when it comes to controlling games in and out of possession. I don't believe Ugarte was the right player for us in that regard and we need better midfielders imo.

Mantato is a very interesting young prospect but I'm not sure Amorim will feel that he's ready to contribute at a high enough level right now.
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Interesting you say that. Assume you prefer a DLP kinda like Carrick?

I really like Ugarte, lot of defensive work but also good passer.
 
mav_9me said:
Interesting you say that. Assume you prefer a DLP kinda like Carrick?

I really like Ugarte, lot of defensive work but also good passer.
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I think it's difficult to get hold of a Carrick type of midfielder now due to the competition there is from other clubs. But I'd like to see us show some intent and bring in a well rounded midfielder who not only competes physically but also has a progressive passing game. I think we really lack that type of midfielder who has a high pass volume with a strong progressive passing game. I'd personally take a chance on Angelo Stiller who at 23 years of age looks like a interesting young player.

To have a system of play that is effective requires the midfield to play a big part in progressing the ball and our midfield doesn't do it well enough.

I think the flaw with Ugarte is that he's too limited on the ball as far as progressing the ball forward. He's more of a sideways and backwards passer and I think we need more than that in midfield.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
I suppose the counter-argument there is that if he was at BVB or Leipzig then he'd be more proven. He's not though, he's very young and very raw and we're operating on the possibility of him reaching an entirely hypothetical ceiling. I'm tempted to suggest that we promote a youngster for the remainder of the league season, which is basically over already. Someone like Mantato for instance.
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The difference is though our team severely lacks physical profiles. 17 year olds rarely have that.

We can’t fill any starting XI position at the moment with 17/18 year olds. We need young men in the side.
 
If the add ons are appearances based then its not too bad. An extra 5m euros for 100 appearances for eg
 
Brophs said:
What doesn’t make sense? Mike made a prediction about a player and I’m pointing out that he’s doing it again. That’s it. There’s no other level to this.
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I still don’t get it.
What are you trying to say between the lines?
 
He is the type of player Amorim wants in the wingback positions. Mobile players who can quickly join the attack. He is not yet at the required level, but my hope is that just having a player taking up the right positions and not being afraid to run at players will help quite a lot with our attacking play. Most great teams aren't filled to the brim with amazing players, they are filled with players that do what the system requires them to. Maybe Dorgu in his current state can be that for us, with scope to improve.
 
Top said:
I still don’t get it.
What are you trying to say between the lines?
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The implication would be that he was right about Sancho and so he will also be right about Dorgu although I’m not even sure if Brophs realises that is the implication. Also, being right about one player doesn’t mean a jot about another given none of us have really seen Dorgu play that much.
 
Ali Dia said:
He probably won't want to go there to be fair. I could see him getting a top loan back in Holland or even a low PL loan, decent French German or Spanish team etc
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He’s already not getting enough games for a low PL team, to be fair
 
Adnan said:
I think it's difficult to get hold of a Carrick type of midfielder now due to the competition there is from other clubs. But I'd like to see us show some intent and bring in a well rounded midfielder who not only competes physically but also has a progressive passing game. I think we really lack that type of midfielder who has a high pass volume with a strong progressive passing game. I'd personally take a chance on Angelo Stiller who at 23 years of age looks like a interesting young player.

To have a system of play that is effective requires the midfield to play a big part in progressing the ball and our midfield doesn't do it well enough.

I think the flaw with Ugarte is that he's too limited on the ball as far as progressing the ball forward. He's more of a sideways and backwards passer and I think we need more than that in midfield.
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I really like Angelo Stiller as a player, a Kroos regen from his Madrid days if we have ever seen one. His progressive passing stats are insane. He wouldn't be expensive from Stuttgart and we could still bring in a good B2B player like Ederson or Baleba. This would totally revamp our midfield and we would have an amazing midfield group including Ugarte, Mainoo and Collyer. But I still have some questions whether he has the speed and defending intensity to play in the EPL. What is your take on that? And if not Stiller, who else could bring in the progressive passing in midfield that we could target?
 
Adnan said:
I think it's difficult to get hold of a Carrick type of midfielder now due to the competition there is from other clubs. But I'd like to see us show some intent and bring in a well rounded midfielder who not only competes physically but also has a progressive passing game. I think we really lack that type of midfielder who has a high pass volume with a strong progressive passing game. I'd personally take a chance on Angelo Stiller who at 23 years of age looks like a interesting young player.

To have a system of play that is effective requires the midfield to play a big part in progressing the ball and our midfield doesn't do it well enough.

I think the flaw with Ugarte is that he's too limited on the ball as far as progressing the ball forward. He's more of a sideways and backwards passer and I think we need more than that in midfield.
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Don't you think it should be the job of Ugarte's companion? For example Mainoo is pretty much capable of being progressive (not as a passer but as a dribbler) but he is still too raw. Or ball progression can be done by the wing backs but don't.
 
Adnan said:
I think if he was at BvB or Leipzig he'd be playing in more dominant teams compared to the one he's currently playing in. That likely would've given us a better insight on the potential of the player. We have Christopher Vivell leading on recruitment at the club and if he feels that he's convinced with Dorgu's abilities in the mid to long-term then I think it would be logical to go ahead and sign the player if possible.

I feel the biggest difference will be made by signing a midfielder or two who actually move the needle when it comes to controlling games in and out of possession. I don't believe Ugarte was the right player for us in that regard and we need better midfielders imo.

Mantato is a very interesting young prospect but I'm not sure Amorim will feel that he's ready to contribute at a high enough level right now.
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I'd say Ugarte is the right fit alongside a midfielder who can dictate the tempo.
 
Most expensive wing back or full back was Hernandez at around £67m, Hakimi at around £58m.

To give some context, Lecce want around £34m which is a similar price to Kyle Walker, Ian Maatsen, Cancelo, Timber, Porro etc

He is nowhere near as proven as any of those characters, in fact Kerkez was bought last year by Bournemouth for around £15m which seems like a similar sort of experience/ profile to Dorgu, the fact we are even considering a price close to £34m for me undoes anything good as it doesn't show we are financially savvy but instead will just pay whatever price is being asked.

Doku was bought by City for around £50m after getting a goal involvement 1 in 3 in the French league yet we want to sell Garnacho (At same ago Doku moved, 20) who has better than 1 in 3 in a more proven league and turns out for the NT for around £45 to £50m? I just worry....
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Most expensive wing back or full back was Hernandez at around £67m, Hakimi at around £58m.

To give some context, Lecce want around £34m which is a similar price to Kyle Walker, Ian Maatsen, Cancelo, Timber, Porro etc

He is nowhere near as proven as any of those characters, in fact Kerkez was bought last year by Bournemouth for around £15m which seems like a similar sort of experience/ profile to Dorgu, the fact we are even considering a price close to £34m for me undoes anything good as it doesn't show we are financially savvy but instead will just pay whatever price is being asked.

Doku was bought by City for around £50m after getting a goal involvement 1 in 3 in the French league yet we want to sell Garnacho (At same ago Doku moved, 20) who has better than 1 in 3 in a more proven league and turns out for the NT for around £45 to £50m? I just worry....
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Cancelo was £60m, Walker was a world record fee of £53m for a defender at the tine. Timber and Porro were similarly priced but still more expensive.

We’re probably overpaying slightly but it’s January, they don’t need to sell, and he is a highly rated, versatile player.
 
stepic said:
Cancelo was £60m, Walker was a world record fee of £53m for a defender at the tine. Timber and Porto were similarly priced but still more expensive.

We’re probably overpaying slightly but it’s January, they don’t need to sell, and he is a highly rated, versatile player.
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Porro cost £40m
 
stepic said:
Cancelo was £60m, Walker was a world record fee of £53m for a defender at the tine. Timber and Porro were similarly priced but still more expensive.

We’re probably overpaying slightly but it’s January, they don’t need to sell, and he is a highly rated, versatile player.
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Timber £34m https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jurrien-timber/transfers/spieler/420243
Porro £34m https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/pedro-porro/transfers/spieler/553875
Cancelo £34m (Should have been clearer that it was his move to Juve at that price but even his move to City was £50m not 60, that's Euros https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/joao-cancelo/transfers/spieler/182712
Walker was £43m so that was my mistake https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kyle-walker/profil/spieler/95424

Point from my post is if you put all the full backs/ wing backs in order and look at what they had achieved by each transfer - Dorgu isn't worth more than £15/20m at a push.
 
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