Patrick Dorgu | United in talks

cirilus said:
Your arguments are strong and i rate Dorgu.

I was talking about the negociating image we created.

I dont think that mistakes of the past should interfere with decisions on future negociations.

If you feel the other part is just trying to milk you, you have to be able to get out.

For as many deals necessary in order to build the idea that you have to concede as well, if you want to make deals with us.

Even if the deal is not that bad. (can any deal be worse than Antony, Onana or Hojlund?)
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I think there's certainly an image the club created and clubs have milked us, especially because we're normally desperately playing catch up. It didn't help that Woodward used to brag about how much money we could spend. So many of our current issues can be traced back to the Glazers (obviously) and their decision to put him in charge for so long.

The thing is, we've been trying to undo this for a while. We walked away from Sancho when Dortmund were asking for €100m and signed Amad and Pellistri. We then went back and got Sancho for about €85m the next summer. Here in lies the problem - when we spend big on 'proven' players they don't work out, and the alternatives either never come good, or take a few seasons to get there (like Amad). How do you solve that?

I think we just need to be a lot better at recruitment across the board, but that's going to take time. Also, part of that isn't signing these youngsters to go straight into the first team, and also not hedging our bets on one kid for a huge fee, like with Højlund.

Ideally what we should be doing right now is signing an experienced player for WB, think Perisic at Inter. Someone short term and reliable, then bring in a prospect or two to ease into the position.

Sadly, I just don't think we have the money to do that either. We have to do one or the other, so going for youngsters is a better long term investment.
 
Crimson King said:
I think there's certainly an image the club created and clubs have milked us, especially because we're normally desperately playing catch up. It didn't help that Woodward used to brag about how much money we could spend. So many of our current issues can be traced back to the Glazers (obviously) and their decision to put him in charge for so long.

The thing is, we've been trying to undo this for a while. We walked away from Sancho when Dortmund were asking for €100m and signed Amad and Pellistri. We then went back and got Sancho for about €85m the next summer. Here in lies the problem - when we spend big on 'proven' players they don't work out, and the alternatives either never come good, or take a few seasons to get there (like Amad). How do you solve that?

I think we just need to be a lot better at recruitment across the board, but that's going to take time. Also, part of that isn't signing these youngsters to go straight into the first team, and also not hedging our bets on one kid for a huge fee, like with Højlund.

Ideally what we should be doing right now is signing an experienced player for WB, think Perisic at Inter. Someone short term and reliable, then bring in a prospect or two to ease into the position.

Sadly, I just don't think we have the money to do that either. We have to do one or the other, so going for youngsters is a better long term investment.
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Think the issue is that after SAF we just wanted to sign big name players and ended up paying over the odds to get them, not sure there was much direction from LVG, Mou or Ole as they definitely did not get the players they wanted, and got several they didn't, then comes ETH and a seed change in it seems we have given carte blanche to the manager to buy the players he wants, in theory that is somewhat of an improvement unfortunately ETH didn't have a fecking clue and bought junk, now it seems (early days) there is a balance between what the manager wants and people in charge who actually know something about football, time will tell that is if we have any money do do any of it!
 
Crimson King said:
I think there's certainly an image the club created and clubs have milked us, especially because we're normally desperately playing catch up. It didn't help that Woodward used to brag about how much money we could spend. So many of our current issues can be traced back to the Glazers (obviously) and their decision to put him in charge for so long.

The thing is, we've been trying to undo this for a while. We walked away from Sancho when Dortmund were asking for €100m and signed Amad and Pellistri. We then went back and got Sancho for about €85m the next summer. Here in lies the problem - when we spend big on 'proven' players they don't work out, and the alternatives either never come good, or take a few seasons to get there (like Amad). How do you solve that?

I think we just need to be a lot better at recruitment across the board, but that's going to take time. Also, part of that isn't signing these youngsters to go straight into the first team, and also not hedging our bets on one kid for a huge fee, like with Højlund.

Ideally what we should be doing right now is signing an experienced player for WB, think Perisic at Inter. Someone short term and reliable, then bring in a prospect or two to ease into the position.

Sadly, I just don't think we have the money to do that either. We have to do one or the other, so going for youngsters is a better long term investment.
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This is why we need to have a genuine structure in place who decide how we set up formation wise and a style of play then the scouts go out to watch players to fit and the recruitment team go out to sign them with the coaching team coaching and picking the team, this is what Ineos said was going to happen once they implemented a ‘best in class footballing structure’ a year ago.

When you look at Sancho, Amad, Antony Pellestri they couldn’t be any more different yet were all signed to play the same position on the pitch and cost £200 million yet only one of those has worked out which ironically was the one we kept sending out on loan and wasn’t given a chance to show what he could do.

It’s the same as when you look at the shambolic chase for De Jong a few years ago as De Jong was the player we were desperate for and unsurprisingly didn’t get then rather than looking at a similar player as an alternative like Bennacer, Vitinha, Ruiz or Kokcu we panic bought Casemiro for a ridiculous panic buy fee which Real immediately accepted and offered him a lot more money than he was on to join even though Casemiro is a completely different type of player.

Because we’re so scatter gun in our approach based on how we’ve operated since that cnut Woodward said we “can do things in the market other clubs can only dream of” and had plan other than buy and worry where they’ll fit later other clubs now know they can take the piss out of us which they do.
 
Buying kids or young adults proved to be such an effective strategy for us in the past years. Antony, Zirzkee, Hojlund, Sancho, Malacia, Daniel James, money well spent! Now we have two youngsters leading the line and salivate at the prospect of having an estabilished player in Gyokeres or Osimhen. I’m not saying to buy the Casemiros of this world or Marcelo, but it’s clear this Football Manager strategy isn’t great either. Just look at how Bruno transformed us when he arived here, or more recently Mazraoui.
 


Against Atalanta who are going for the Seria A title. Looks like he played in a few positions. As you can see him tussle with Ederson (who is a quality player attracting the attention from the likes of us and other big clubs). He played very well and caused Atalanta many problems.

He will definitely add more steel to our team and is always trying to instigate an attack, rather than just pass back.

We have already read about his impressive mentality and focus on football yesterday. If Ruben believes he is the player he needs to fill multiple positions, I'm down. Let's see what happens after this next bid.
 
beer&grill said:
Buying kids or young adults proved to be such an effective strategy for us in the past years. Antony, Zirzkee, Hojlund, Sancho, Malacia, Daniel James, money well spent! Now we have two youngsters leading the line and salivate at the prospect of having an estabilished player in Gyokeres or Osimhen. I’m not saying to buy the Casemiros of this world or Marcelo, but it’s clear this Football Manager strategy isn’t great either. Just look at how Bruno transformed us when he arived here, or more recently Mazraoui.
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Whilst I agree we need experienced players, they cost a pretty penny and in January it will be difficult to get a Nuno Mendes type for under £50m

Ruben really needs to fill that wingback position as it is crucial to his system. Dorgu looks to be ideal as he is already playing for a team as a starter, can fill that position and in future, if we get an established player for that position, he can fill in other positions. For example, he could be potentially better than Dalot at RWB.
 
gulli_G said:


Against Atalanta who are going for the Seria A title. Looks like he played in a few positions. As you can see him tussle with Ederson (who is a quality player attracting the attention from the likes of us and other big clubs). He played very well and caused Atalanta many problems.

He will definitely add more steel to our team and is always trying to instigate an attack, rather than just pass back.

We have already read about his impressive mentality and focus on football yesterday. If Ruben believes he is the player he needs to fill multiple positions, I'm down. Let's see what happens after this next bid.
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Yeah I posted this and the AC Milan all touches vid. Let's just say we have different benchmarks when the term "he played very well" is used.
 
If it’s only €5m apart, it’s neither here nor there. Probably some theatrics going on to make sure Lecce don’t get fleeced when buying his replacement.

We can put Dalot back on the right and he can concentrate on proving he can be a good RWB.
 
VP89 said:
Yeah I posted this and the AC Milan all touches vid. Let's just say we have different benchmarks when the term "he played very well" is used.
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At the end of the day, it is subjective analysis from a small sample set (YouTube comp) so our viewpoints can be different, no problem. The main thing is the club will have done an extensive objective analysis on our targets.

I trust Ruben to get it right, he seems to have an eye for a playe. Some of the players he bought in or introduced to his team from the youth, now play for some of the big clubs in Europe (for example, Matheus Nunes - City, Nuno Mendes - PSG, Pedro Porro - Tottenham, etc). Conversely, he quickly analysed our squad and decided which players suit his needs and which ones don't, it took him about 4 games with Rashford played in different positions to realise he's not good enough for example (something previous managers failed to do).

In summary, if Ruben wants him and he is within our budget, let's go for it.
 
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Chairman Steve said:
If it’s only €5m apart, it’s neither here nor there. Probably some theatrics going on to make sure Lecce don’t get fleeced when buying his replacement.

We can put Dalot back on the right and he can concentrate on proving he can be a good RWB.
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Exactly
 
I have nothing against this deal provided that we still go for more experienced LWB in summer. We also shouldn't be afraid to walk away because it's only way we will not get ripped off in future negotiations.
 
Wouldn't surprise me if he gets used as the left 10 at times - he's practically getting into positions where our 10s would be expected to be seen.
 
Is Dorgu the answer?

Will he be the catalyst that catapults us into the nosebleed heights of the top half of the league?
 
Chairman Steve said:
If it’s only €5m apart, it’s neither here nor there. Probably some theatrics going on to make sure Lecce don’t get fleeced when buying his replacement.

We can put Dalot back on the right and he can concentrate on proving he can be a good RWB.
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Yeah, if it's only €5m you'd have to assume it'll get done one way or another with slightly higher guaranteed or more achievable add-ons.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
Wouldn't surprise me if he gets used as the left 10 at times - he's practically getting into positions where our 10s would be expected to be seen.
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They've practically played him in every position on the pitch this season. I think it's only at CB and on the right of the front three he hasn't played, apart from in goal obviously. So he's very versatile.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
Wouldn't surprise me if he gets used as the left 10 at times - he's practically getting into positions where our 10s would be expected to be seen.
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If we use him as the left 10 then we are back to not having anyone who can play as the LWB!

The fact he is getting into those positions is exactly what the LWB needs to be doing in this system!
 
VP89 said:
Yeah I posted this and the AC Milan all touches vid. Let's just say we have different benchmarks when the term "he played very well" is used.
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Looks like there’s plenty to work with based on that. OK it’s not an absolute Rolls Royce performance, but for a 20 year old he seems to have a lot of good attributes and I’d say its exactly the profile we need in that role. He just needs to smooth his game out a bit, but I imagine he’ll have never worked with top class coaches before and we can improve him a lot.
 
pocco said:
Looks like there’s plenty to work with based on that. OK it’s not an absolute Rolls Royce performance, but for a 20 year old he seems to have a lot of good attributes and I’d say I’d exactly the profile we need in that role. He just needs to smooth his game out a bit, but I imagine he’ll have never worked with top class coaches before and we can improve him a lot.
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Definitely has plenty to work with. Also has plenty that needs to improve.
 
He’s played quite a few games at RW for lecce this season where he’s picked up decent ratings. Bit of a random position to play your LB.
 
DJ_21 said:
He’s played quite a few games at RW for lecce this season where he’s picked up decent ratings. Bit of a random position to play your LB.
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Seems to have always been the plan. His former manager (curiously) compared him to Bale late last season, and he was on the right wing early on in the campaign.

Had a game against Empoli (if I remember right) this month where he started at left back and moved to RW late in the game to use his pace on the break, once Lecce were up a couple, to score. So he's versatile within games, which would be great if we had any other left sided players.

Edit: was an assist not a goal you miserable pedant.
 
pocco said:
Looks like there’s plenty to work with based on that. OK it’s not an absolute Rolls Royce performance, but for a 20 year old he seems to have a lot of good attributes and I’d say its exactly the profile we need in that role. He just needs to smooth his game out a bit, but I imagine he’ll have never worked with top class coaches before and we can improve him a lot.
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I think some of it is just form over substance, he looks like he isn't in control of the ball at most times but is rarely losing it and he can sure drive a team up the pitch. That power will make him a dominant player as he grows and as you say start to smoothen his game.
 
beer&grill said:
Buying kids or young adults proved to be such an effective strategy for us in the past years. Antony, Zirzkee, Hojlund, Sancho, Malacia, Daniel James, money well spent! Now we have two youngsters leading the line and salivate at the prospect of having an estabilished player in Gyokeres or Osimhen. I’m not saying to buy the Casemiros of this world or Marcelo, but it’s clear this Football Manager strategy isn’t great either. Just look at how Bruno transformed us when he arived here, or more recently Mazraoui.
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Come on, we're not terrible because they're young, we're terrible because the players we've bought have been terrible. We haven't gone for the best talents, and barring Sancho, none of the players you listed were with in an ass's roar of being considered future best in the world at the time of purchase. Our recruitment has just been appalling. We've seen young players like Vini Jr, Bellingham, Pedri, Yamal, Cubarsi, Musiala, Olise thrive in big teams because they're the best.

We've given free runs to teams like Chelsea who have, despite their batshit crazy transfer model, signed world class prospects like Estevao, Andrey Santos and Kendry Paez. We've done similar to two scandinavian talents (Nypan and Bergvall) when we've had the advantage of both players supporting us.
 
Withnail said:
They've practically played him in every position on the pitch this season. I think it's only at CB and on the right of the front three he hasn't played, apart from in goal obviously. So he's very versatile.
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Yeah the versatility is definitely appealing
 
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