Absolutely not, if we paid anything close to that for WB we should shut up shop.
Patrick Dorgu | United in talks
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to celebrate rare back-to-back victories for Manchester United! They analyse the late win in the Europa League vs. Rangers and then try and find things to analyse in a pretty dour game vs. Fulham. They also chat about the latest Marcus Rashford news, and look at the latest transfer news.
I read that Lecce’s annual revenue is just €59m… is that right?
If we give them €30m it’s like a 50% increase in revenue. That’s would be the equivalent to United selling a player for £330m.
If we give them €30m it’s like a 50% increase in revenue. That’s would be the equivalent to United selling a player for £330m.
History would suggest to send a scout down to Cobham or a few of the other elite academies and a ready made player will pop up. Clubs like Chelsea only dying to offload academy talents for the PSR bump. Reece James, Ian Matsen, Colwill, Livramento, Lewis Hall, Chalobah in recent years with Acheampong and Ishe Samuels Smith next possibly. Could take a punt on someone like Harvey Vale, who is supposed to be a top talent and started off as left back but seems to be able to play anywhere.
Alternatively, you could look for heavy discounts on previous favourites here like Ferdi Kadioglu or Ian Matsen who don't seem to made any impact at their new clubs (disregard if this is because of injuries I'm not aware of).
I like the fact that Dorgu is only 20 years old. But, over the past few years United has been relying heavily on transfers. This is part of what has led to the financial fair play crisis. I'd like to see United go back to more reliance on find young players, teaching them how to play, and promoting from within. A few key transfers, of course, are important, but they should not be the building block of United.
I've watched the 20 minute highlights of under-18 and under-21 matches on United TV. There are possible good players coming up. I'm okay with a couple more years of mediocracy as long as we are building towards something and not simply spending money on a hope and a prayer. Get the youth teams to play in Amorim's system so that they can learn it and play in it well. They are not doing that yet.
I've watched the 20 minute highlights of under-18 and under-21 matches on United TV. There are possible good players coming up. I'm okay with a couple more years of mediocracy as long as we are building towards something and not simply spending money on a hope and a prayer. Get the youth teams to play in Amorim's system so that they can learn it and play in it well. They are not doing that yet.
Could not agree more!!! I'd rather do this than spend money in this era of financial fair play and try to build a team on transfers.
Yeah I was thinking along the same lines, seems a hell of a lot of money for Lecce, surprised they said no!
They must be confident that Untied will come back with an improved offer (history suggests they will) or selling him to another club in the summer.
But you never know in football, if he gets injured or form drops off they might never get a similar offer again.
Exactly, I really think right now we might have 2 Solid wing backs to play in Amorims style and when I say 2 let me be clear here ;
That’s Amad and half for Dalot and half for Shaw when he’s fit. Mazraoui has pace but he’s much better at RB or RCB in a three at the back. we simply need options and now I think we should go back and get Alvaro Fernandes at £17m and get Chillwell on loan as part of the Garnaucho deal.
United should tell Chelsea, we’ll take NKUNKU and Chillwell on loan plus £55m for Garnaucho providing Chelsea pay half their wages til the end of the season.
Send Mallacia out on loan and his wages would pay Alvarao’s wage, Antony wage saving pays Chillwell and Garnaucho transfer fee and wages leaves enough for Tyler Dybling as a permanent, and Nunkunu on loan.
We can then review everything in the summer, decide who we sign from loans and which players we actively need to force out the club. United can finally then go after Osimhen or Gykores as our number 9 as our first priority to build our summer
I wish we could get Osimhen and Gyokeres, however in our dire financial situation there's no chance in a million years of it ever happening
No thanks to Chilwell, also think Mazraoui lacks pace to be a wingback. Best keep him at RCB and have Yoro come on as a substitute.
You love your strikersRe your point we only play with 2 striker and doubt either of those want to sit on the bench
Its time to walk away. The money on the table is more than fair. He aint good enough to warrant 35m in this market.
35m is peanuts these days
Clearly not to us and Lecce. We can’t afford it and they’ve never received it before.
Walk away. We've been the laughing stock of the transfer market for years. Being put over a barrell by some small Italian club will be a new low.
Make one last offer, 30m take it or leave it.
City have just signed Khusanov for €40m from Lens. Lens are higher up in the French league compared to Lecce in Serie A but it gives us an idea of the current market.
Surely this deal gets done at €35m.
Surely this deal gets done at €35m.
I'm not convinced, a couple other suggestions look better.
Totally agree on Mazraoui but he has pace, he’s just a risk adverse player and for win back you need players like Amad that take risks. But agree he’s best at RCB
Walk away is an imperative if you want to end the Man Utd tax.
At the same time, do the (scouts) homework, and have several options to buy.
Highly doubt the likes of Hojlund, Antony, Onana and Zirkzee were thoroughly scouted.
Looks like we are trying for cheap options, hence the talk about Mendes, Kerkez and Theo Hernandez has died down unfortunately.
Now it's Dorgu or Alvaro.
Now it's Dorgu or Alvaro.
We’ll be reading articles in the athletic in the future that Lecce were astonished when United ended up paying €40mn for a player they had only valued at €40k but United’s negotiation team turned up drunk on Chianti and the figure got lost in translation.
Hojlund, Antony, Casemiro etc etc. it works bother ways.
The main point is we need players that will make an impact now. Buying from our league offers that more than a youngster from abroad.
Except this is the same price they looked for from other clubs too.
There's no "United tax" at play here, Lecce just value him highly. Not least because for them he isn't just a fullback.
In the summer Spurs were interested in him, and I'm pretty sure Chelsea wanted to sign him and loan him to Strasbourg. They were obviously both trying to nip in and get him before he started to get more attention. Lecce wanted €35m then. They're asking for €40m now, most likely because it's the January window.
It sounds like we value him at around €30m. Paying what Lecce are asking isn't the the same as paying €100m for Antony when the club's scouts rated him at about €25m. It's not the same as paying €74m for Højlund, when the club felt he was only worth around €40m.
It's fine if you don't rate Dorgu, but walking away from this deal won't end the 'United tax'. This isn't where you draw the line in the sand.
Your arguments are strong and i rate Dorgu.
I was talking about the negociating image we created.
I dont think that mistakes of the past should interfere with decisions on future negociations.
If you feel the other part is just trying to milk you, you have to be able to get out.
For as many deals necessary in order to build the idea that you have to concede as well, if you want to make deals with us.
Even if the deal is not that bad. (can any deal be worse than Antony, Onana or Hojlund?)
No, but, at least partially, because of those deals we're mired in a bog and this kid is going to be held responsible for helping to get us out, this season, to be ready to start that process in like two weeks, in fact. So it could pretty easily go belly-up even if financially it isn't as much of a boondoggle.
Maybe we approach one of those in the summer
Been a fan of this guy for a while and considered this a no brainer of a transfer (as per the potential LB signings thread) but I expected us to be able to get this done for between 20 to 30 mil not more.
If we can't do that this window then we need to look toward the loan market, which we should be doing already for potential LB, CM and striker signings, and come back in the summer when hopefully they are more reasonable or more targets are available.
Should only be paying 30 mil tops for him at this stage.
If we can't do that this window then we need to look toward the loan market, which we should be doing already for potential LB, CM and striker signings, and come back in the summer when hopefully they are more reasonable or more targets are available.
Should only be paying 30 mil tops for him at this stage.
Who are the loan options in those positions do you reckon just out of interest. Seems so little concrete noise in this window outside of this guy
You are a fan of this guy but still will pay 30m tops for him. Why? Because you don't think he is worth more & has limited potential or because you are worried about our finances?
Because given his achievements to this point and the club he plays for that is a more than fair fee. He is potentially a top LB/LWB of the future, but that doesn't mean you break the bank to sign him. The fee we recently paid for Diego Leon (7mil) is a fair reflection of the type of fees you pay based on potential and club stature.
If you dont set reasonable limits you end up overpaying paying fees like 74 mil for a good young striker with good potential (which is what I think Hojlund is) but still alot to prove/learn at the highest level.
Given those factors Dorgu is currently worth 30mil max and we shouldn't be entertaining a fee of much higher.
ps our current financial status only makes all of the above more pertinent.
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I wonder if our add-ons tactics of Champions League winners, Ballon D’or winner etc isn’t working anymore? Cant think why….
Likewise we can’t be shafted again so walk away and get someone on loan
Likewise we can’t be shafted again so walk away and get someone on loan
If Lecce want €40m they are well within their rights to ask for it. But I feel nothing for this signing. If we sign him, fine, if we don't sign him, i'm not losing any sleep either.
Buying from our league is too expensive
40 mio is a lot for someone who has not played more than Dorgu has. On the other hand everyone is shouting minimum 60 for Garnacho, who has only a year more experience in a top five league. Lets face it. Raw talent and prospect are costing these days. I don´t like it, but that is the way it is. FourFourTwo made a really good video on why we need Dorgu, and highlighted his skills. The most important is him being a fast ball carrier who occupies the winger position when we attack as opposed to Dalot and 'Maz. He is also the second most fouled player in the serie A. The more I see the more I am for this transfer. I hope we can meet Lecce at 35 mio.
Those situations are in no way comparable, we messed up previously but if we rate him that high and were willing to pay £25m - £30m the difference required to do a deal here is not much and not really detrimental. If we think the risk of development is too high and he is not a sure thing then we shouldn't have even bid for him.
What happened with Antony and Hoijlund is we had a ballpark figure in mind and were made to pay double in the former case and over 50% in the latter. That's when we should have walked away but e had an executive team that was too scared be called out for not backing the manager.
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If we do end up paying €40m then it’ll once again be down to terrible squad planning and long term thinking that we’re once again desperate in January for something to come in and save our season somewhat.
Relying on Shaw and Malacia for a second season in a row is absolutely criminal from our higher ups.
But he should fit into what Amorim demands.
Relying on Shaw and Malacia for a second season in a row is absolutely criminal from our higher ups.
But he should fit into what Amorim demands.
But this season we didn't we bought a versatile fullback who, for all his talents and adaptability, playing WB in this system has proved a step too far. The plan was to have Maz and Dalot covering that position and given that we played with inverted fullbacks it was solid.
Where we failed is we made Sharp turn towards Amorim's system midseason and because Shaw isn't available and can't be relied upon to ever be consistently available we now desperately need a player there. This squad wasn't planned for Amorim in the slightest bit.
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But Mazraoui, who is a good footballer, was good value and is homophobic, shouldn’t be a clubs LB or LWB over any significant time period because he’s not a natural left footer. He should be the competition and alternative to Dalot as a RB given we sold AWB.
So for me it’s inexcusable.
At least we can agree that the lack of long term planning here is signing someone to play inverted, then sack that manager and switch to a completely different system that none of your current fullbacks are suited to.
We’ve essentially binned Dalot, Shaw, Malacia and to a lesser Mazraoui because of the system change and created problems in terms of squad composition that are impossible to solve internally, and incredibly difficult to fix in January.
I feel incredibly sorry for Amorim to only have a January window to maybe add a player to help him.
It was silly and a concerning error to make. SJR clearly didn't rate ETH, he refused, even on the day of the final, to endorse him which was easier to do. How he let people convince him to keep the manager when he didn't have faith in him himself was a major feck up. To then spend money on his vision was castrophic in this PSR era.
On to the Amorim appointment, no doubt he is a very good coach and could achieve great things here but someone needed to see the number of players that would be made redundant in his system, the difficulties in adopting to it midseason and the outlay needed to modify the squad to suit him. With the wages we pay who is going to pay us good money for Rashford, Antony, Mazraoui etc? These are the questions they should have asked themselves.
With United, be it a signing or a managerial recruitment, we always go with who is easy to bring and forget all the issues thereafter. Maybe Dan Ashworth saw through all this and possibly the need for a manager who would take the fall for the huge build ahead, which is why he recommended keeping ETH around, if he did, so that we could use his period to do all the dirty work like undoing all the toxic contracts and shifting the deadwood to make the squad lean and then properly rebuild. Amorim can't survive the pain of the job ahead.