TBH it was done, IMO, to avoid having 3 CB's leave at the same time, given the system we play we would have had to recruit one and an inexperienced one was probably not an option given Yoro, 2 young and inexperienced CB's rarely works out well
Patrick Dorgu | United in talks
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
That as well yeah, having an extra 4 million on hand doesn't hurt too.
I'm usually all over the hipster transfers but the Dorgu one is leaving me a little bit cold. Everyone seems to agree he's a fantastic athlete and while we definitely need players with above average athleticism in the team, his touch and passing does not look good at all from the bits I've seen.
Happy to sign these types of raw project players if you're getting them at values that factor in the amount of development they need but I'm a bit pessimistic about players that don't have the fundamentals to begin with. Really don't want another AWB on our hands and €40mn would be a real dealbreaker for me. I was really excited about the AWB signing and remember thinking in the early days that his technique would improve in time, which it did in fairness, but his base was so low that it never went beyond average.
It wouldn't surprise me if I'm proven completely wrong in time but at the moment I probably wouldn't be going too far beyond 25mn. Have seen too many of these tactico identified wonderkids with "elite potential" being replaced in their affections within a year.
Happy to sign these types of raw project players if you're getting them at values that factor in the amount of development they need but I'm a bit pessimistic about players that don't have the fundamentals to begin with. Really don't want another AWB on our hands and €40mn would be a real dealbreaker for me. I was really excited about the AWB signing and remember thinking in the early days that his technique would improve in time, which it did in fairness, but his base was so low that it never went beyond average.
It wouldn't surprise me if I'm proven completely wrong in time but at the moment I probably wouldn't be going too far beyond 25mn. Have seen too many of these tactico identified wonderkids with "elite potential" being replaced in their affections within a year.
I think we just have fundamentally different views of how transfer business should be approached, particularly when it comes to young players.
My view is that it is almost impossible to tell if a youngster will fulfil their potential (outside of very rare cases like Rooney where it’s clear they’re already top players as teenagers).
Therefore, it’s just a numbers game and you need to take a probabilistic view when signing young players.
What’s the highest ever fee for a fullback? £60m. What’s the chance this kid will reach the required standard? 30%? Therefore, £18m is a reasonable fee, which can be dialled up or down a little bit based on subjective judgement of his talent and character.
Minimum requirement for any new signings...they need to be highly technical or highly athletic. For some positions in this system, I think being athletic outliers is even more important.
For example, at wingback we need to target players with pace, high workrate, and tons of stamina. Anything less and it doesnt matter if they are prime Zidane with the ball at their feet, they're going to struggle.
For example, at wingback we need to target players with pace, high workrate, and tons of stamina. Anything less and it doesnt matter if they are prime Zidane with the ball at their feet, they're going to struggle.
Don’t get me wrong, a very classy player on the ball. But one paced. Dorgu is said to be rapid, great stamina and 6ft2. A perfect fit for Amorim
I guess when desperate and bargain hunting, you probably have to waive some attributes. So either athleticism (Fernandez) or technicality/passing (Dorgu). Personally prefer the former, with Dalot providing that on the right, but can see the reasoning for the latter.
In my mind, we lack genuine pace in the team so if someone can come in and inject that it would do wonders for the team
They should be able to control the ball, though. Otherwise we'd be facing similar problems with keeping & progressing the ball we do now.
I don't disagree with you but don't fully agree with it either. If it was an established player from PL or another top club then I could see the merit of it in context of this sesson. Still not a game changer (that is only a top striker for me in January), but someone who gives us another option and allows us to play Amad as one of the #10's.
Yes but the fact that they also use him as a winger as well would suggest he’s fine controlling the ball
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Carreras, Gutierrez, Kerkez, Ait-Nouri would be a starting point.
The videos are not very encouraging. His control & passing don't look to be top notch.
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There are more with similar profiles but then you are again going down the potential route.
If we find some millions behind the couch, Ait-Nouri from that list all the way
Winter window. The former lacks what the team lacks - pace. The rest will cost 60m each, how is that smart?
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Well the price you are suggesting is incorrect to start with on at least 2 of those.
Gutierrez has an ~£29m release clause (hence my hesitance to go much beyond £30m for Dorgu) and Carreras has £16m.
Kerkez isn’t going to cost Solanke money. Much more likely to be around the Ake fee £40m.
Even Neto and Nunes only went for ~£50-55m so there’s no way a LWB goes for more from Wolves.
As I say there are other more niche options available.
Carreras has almost twice as many successful take ons per 90 than Dorgu, 1.12 compared to 0.62 with a success rate of 45.5% to Dorgu's 30.5%, so he can't be that slow.
There’s no way Kerkez would go for 40m much more north of 60-75m
You have to factor in the difference in quality of opposition.
According to many in the Gyokeres thread Portugal is basically Championship/Leagie 1 level...
Fair point, but then again Champions league data is a part of that, so I'd say it balances out.
Kerkez would probably cost us £100 Million in fee + wages
Solanke and Ake both had release clauses at Bournemouth so it's difficult to use them as direct comparisons unless Kerkez also has one.
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This is all hypothetical but essentially I completely disagree.
He was bought for £16-18m and so his amortised cost per year for Bournemouth is around £4m per year.
£40m is a lot of profit and they’ve already bought a replacement in Soler.
If he doesn’t go to United I expect a summer move to Liverpool. I’ll buy a Liverpool shirt with his name on it if it’s near £75m.
True. But also Bournemouth have been proactive in replacing Kerkez. Everything I’ve seen from them suggests he will be sold. Maybe in the summer to Liverpool though.
Kerkez, they'll definitely get more than they got for Ake - they'd just gone down. Wolves seem to need a £50m sale every summer to stay afloat, but I think it'll be Cunha next and Ait-Nouri in 26.
Agree on Gutierrez. There was the odd report a couple of weeks ago and then it went dead. He definitely seems to hit the technical mark, and it's a bargain price.
Look I would not turn down Carreras but Dorgu appears to be our target. I’m happy with that too because I feel that we miss genuine pace. Absolutely rapid
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I think he’s the best physical profile of all the ones we’ve been linked to.
But reading into him technical level is very much in question.
Is he rapid? I don't see that in the vids at least. Looks about as quick as you expect a 20 year old to be?
Every report I’ve read, every silly analysis thing has mentioned that he’s rapid and has the running power of 2 players
Dan James was rapid and look how that worked out.
We never tried him at LWB, to be fair
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We made a significant profit on him?
We sold him for a big profit. So it worked out... good?
Regardless, Dan James not being a good player doesn't invalidate the concept of pace being a key asset.
It all went tits up after he left.
He’d be probably starting for us in this moment
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Depends how experienced they are. If it’s their first time I’d say 2 minutes tops.How fast do you expect a 20 year old to be?
A lot different when you just have pace but you’re an attacker that’s meant to contribute to assists and goals.
Imagine if we'd kept him instead of buying Antony.
We'd have had a better player, and loads more money to spend.
Fecking hell, I'd forgotten all about James for a minute there. I could see him working at Amorims RWB in an alternative universe.