Patrick Dorgu | 2024/25 Performances

No what annoys me is the opinion police around new players. Like Hojlund last season, where people attempt to gaslight others into not believing what their eyes are clearly showing. People can form opinions about players whenever, and of course those opinions change over time, that is just normal.

I think we paid about 30m for Dorgu, 25m + 5 bonus. I think we would have been better off resigning Alvaro Carreras back from Benfica because he looks to me to be a much more natural attacking player and much better technically than Dorgu to me. Also Kerkez transfer fee was rumoured to be around 35m, not far away from what we paid for Dorgu.

Sure I get the physicality issue with Amass but I still think he can get more minutes as a sub, he did well in the last appearance he made, I’m genuinely interested in how he develops.

In any case Dorgu is a highly rated young player, and he is of course adjusting to a new league and team. So like I have already said hopefully he is just adjusting and we see a much better Dorgu next season and after. What is worrying me is his technical qualities which don’t look very good to me so far.

There's no opinion police here, nor gaslighting, that's rather melodramatic. I'm just making the point that jumping to conclusions early is reactionary. You're entitled to do so, but equally others are entitled to consider it too soon to draw conclusions.

Carreras doesn't have anywhere near the same physicality though. We signed Dorgu because the position needs someone with good pace and acceleration, who can run up and down the wing all day. There's nobody else in the squad who can do that for us on the left, again except for Shaw but he's never fit.

I agree there are technically better players, but we're a team who has been bullied on numerous occasions this season, our most pressing concern was (and still is) adding some physicality to a team full of lightweights and geriatrics. He's definitely delivered that, even though he's been inconsistent on the ball.
 
There's no opinion police here, nor gaslighting, that's rather melodramatic. I'm just making the point that jumping to conclusions early is reactionary. You're entitled to do so, but equally others are entitled to consider it too soon to draw conclusions.

Carreras doesn't have anywhere near the same physicality though. We signed Dorgu because the position needs someone with good pace and acceleration, who can run up and down the wing all day. There's nobody else in the squad who can do that for us on the left, again except for Shaw but he's never fit.

I agree there are technically better players, but we're a team who has been bullied on numerous occasions this season, our most pressing concern was (and still is) adding some physicality to a team full of lightweights and geriatrics. He's definitely delivered that, even though he's been inconsistent on the ball.

No one is jumping to any conclusions or being reactionary by evaluating a players performance SO FAR, that is the key it was clearly labeled as an evaluation SO FAR. Telling someone that to do this is jumping to conclusions when someone has clearly caveated the thought with SO FAR and even highlighted the mitigating circumstance for the player (new league, team etc) is clearly gaslighting since no one drew a final conclusion.

At this point we can just end the conversation because we clearly disagree here. Its my opinion that you a attempting to thought police fans commenting on a new players performance to date, in the players performance thread which I think is silly.

You have not watched Carreras much if you think he cannot run up and down the wing all day
 
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No one is jumping to any conclusions or being reactionary by evaluating a players performance SO FAR, that is the key it was clearly labeled as an evaluation SO FAR. Telling someone that to do this is jumping to conclusions when someone has clearly caveated the thought with SO FAR and even highlighted the mitigating circumstance for the player (new league, team etc) is clearly gaslighting since no one drew a conclusion.

At this point we can just end the conversation because we clearly disagree here. Its my opinion that you a attempting to thought police fans commenting on a new players performance to date, in the players performance thread which I think is silly.

You have not watched Carreras much if you think he cannot run up and down the wing all day

There are some things that can be evaluated as "so far", and some that can't. It would be fair to say he hasn't met your expectations so far. Or that you think he's demonstrated a lack of technical skill so far. Your original statement, though, was that he was a poor transfer for the fee so far. That isn't a judgement that can be made "so far", it requires a big enough sample size for it to be possible for us to get our monies worth. There isn't a single player that could pay back a £25m investment in a couple of months.

Your repeated use of hyperbole like "gaslighting" and "thought police" is strengthening my point. It's an overreaction, which combined with your overreaction about Dorgu, suggests a pattern. All I'm trying to do is remove the melodrama from this discussion about him.
 
There are some things that can be evaluated as "so far", and some that can't. It would be fair to say he hasn't met your expectations so far. Or that you think he's demonstrated a lack of technical skill so far. Your original statement, though, was that he was a poor transfer for the fee so far. That isn't a judgement that can be made "so far".
You are now dabbling semantics for the sake of argument.

I think so far he has been a poor signing. Whether you think thats an evaluation that can be made so far or not I have done so because like I said we disagree on this.

I know what my eyes tell me and so far he looks like a poor signing. Maybe he will look like a good one in the future.
 
I think he's done pretty well so far. Our defence looks a much more solid unit since he's come in. Obviously not all down to him but I think for a young player moving to a new league in a high pressure environment that swallows up many he's settled in good. Not setting the world alight but you could say he's had a less shaky start to his United career than Patrice Evra for example
 
The negative comments he gets are just ridiculous.
His defending is fine and he is asked to cover the length of the pitch.
People moan about his lack of contribution in attack but he's often our most advanced player and, with better finishing, hw works have had 2 assists last night.
Some people just want to moan about all our signings.
 
You are now dabbling semantics for the sake of argument.

I think so far he has been a poor signing. Whether you think thats an evaluation that can be made so far or not I have done so because like I said we disagree on this.

I know what my eyes tell me and so far he looks like a poor signing. Maybe he will look like a good one in the future.

As you said, let's agree to disagree, for me that's a very premature assessment.
 
The negative comments he gets are just ridiculous.
His defending is fine and he is asked to cover the length of the pitch.
People moan about his lack of contribution in attack but he's often our most advanced player and, with better finishing, hw works have had 2 assists last night.
Some people just want to moan about all our signings.

His athleticism is pretty damn good, and that’s obviously vital for that position, especially the way Amorim plays. Difficult to argue that he’s overly blessed with talent either as a defender or attacker though. I can see why people might think that for a team aiming to be regularly in the top 4 and having runs in the Champions League he’s nothing particularly special. Still, he can improve and in terms of priority he is nowhere near the top of the list.

I do think though, that when a player joins Utd their shortcomings get overlooked quite blatantly for a good six months or a year. Look at how much Onana was defended in his first season, even when it became incredible obvious that he wasn’t the player that he was supposed to be.
 
The negative comments he gets are just ridiculous.
His defending is fine and he is asked to cover the length of the pitch.
People moan about his lack of contribution in attack but he's often our most advanced player and, with better finishing, hw works have had 2 assists last night.
Some people just want to moan about all our signings.

Agreed. It's not his fault that we have utter shite up top. He's actually put in some lovely passes into dangerous positions in the last 3 games and should have had at least 1 assist if our forwards weren't garbage.

He certainly needs to work on his consistency and focus, but he's shown his technical ability in these past few games.
 
I really like him. I said it last week - I think he’s a pretty good crosser of the ball and last night continued to show that. He’s very good physically and I’m not convinced he’s actually bad on the ball. He just has these spells in games where he’ll have a 10-15 minute period of giving the ball away - which seems like a mental thing more than a technical one to me - Dalot can do a similar thing. Only disappointment so far is when he’s one vs one he never goes at the player - hopefully that’ll come as he settles in more.
 
Clearly the irrational comment got under your skin a bit, so apologies for that. I do think you're overreacting to a very small sample size though.

I'm happy to go with your better question. What's your answer?

As for Amass, he looked nowhere near ready when he has played before, especially physically, and physicality is one of the most important attributes for wingbacks in this system. That's why Dorgu is playing there so much, he has physical attributes that are sorely lacking throughout the squad.
So Amass starts today. Very interesting
 
Clearly to rest Dorgu for Thursday don’t you think? Pretty much free hit today so giving Amass so minutes seems a sensible option.
Yes, didn’t suggest otherwise.
Its interesting he starts today after the OP suggested he was nowhere near ready after I suggested he should get some minutes as a more technically sound attacking option
 
So Amass starts today. Very interesting
Yes, didn’t suggest otherwise.
Its interesting he starts today after the OP suggested he was nowhere near ready after I suggested he should get some minutes as a more technically sound attacking option

It's a bit early to be taking this as a victory, but in fairness it is interesting, will be good to see how Amass looks.

I'd love to be wrong, but I'm expecting Amass to be exposed a bit; Newcastle are a physically dominant side, they totally dominated us in the reverse fixture, and Amass has looked physically behind whenever I've seen him.
 
Yes, didn’t suggest otherwise.
Its interesting he starts today after the OP suggested he was nowhere near ready after I suggested he should get some minutes as a more technically sound attacking option
I’ve not seen much of Amass so will be interesting to see how he goes, we definitely need more competition so hopefully he does well.
 
It's a bit early to be taking this as a victory, but in fairness it is interesting, will be good to see how Amass looks.

I'd love to be wrong, but I'm expecting Amass to be exposed a bit; Newcastle are a physically dominant side, they totally dominated us in the reverse fixture, and Amass has looked physically behind whenever I've seen him.
No victory. Just interesting and it shows Amorim sees something there which is good.

He should get some minutes and I think then you possibly have 2 players for the position who can offer different things.
 
No victory. Just interesting and it shows Amorim sees something there which is good.

He should get some minutes and I think then you possibly have 2 players for the position who can offer different things.

Equally it could show desperation, we need to rest Dorgu and Shaw isn't fit enough yet. It has the feel of a sacrificial side in order to keep players fit for Thursday.

Let's see how the game goes though, as I said I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not expecting much from today.
 
Equally it could show desperation, we need to rest Dorgu and Shaw isn't fit enough yet. It has the feel of a sacrificial side in order to keep players fit for Thursday.

Let's see how the game goes though, as I said I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not expecting much from today.
We don’t need to rest Garnacho, Bruno, Ugarte, Dalot etc?

He gave Amass a sub appearance a few weeks back on his birthday, now he gets a start. But sure this is all out of desperation… very rational.
 
We don’t need to rest Garnacho, Bruno, Ugarte, Dalot etc?

He gave Amass a sub appearance a few weeks back on his birthday, now he gets a start. But sure this is all out of desperation… very rational.

That rational comment really got to you didn't it! :lol:

It's clearly a team that involves resting players for Thursday, there's almost unanimous agreement on here, you've even agreed with another poster about that.

Handing a youth player their first senior start as part of a team that's clearly rotational away to a Newcastle team that absolutely battered us at home certainly has an air of desperation about it.

Like I said though, let's see if it pays off, as I've said multiple times I really want to be wrong about this and for Amass to play brilliantly, it just seems very unlikely given the circumstances.
 
Seems like a pointless signing to have made mid season. Far from good enough (yet) to improve the team immediately and probably 50% too expensive due to being a January transfer. The poor choices of when and how to spend on players continue.
 
I just dont know how the feck we end up with these kind of dud signings.

Should have just signed no-one and try again in Summer. Dorgu is just a Malacia with more speed. Atleast Malacia was defensively okay.
 
Whichever head scout that advised us to sign him over activating Alvaro's clause needs binning off.
 
I really don’t see a world where this guy ends up good enough to be starting for us. Maybe he’d have a bit more luck in a conventional back four, not sure.
 
As a pre-face, I know he is 20 years old. I should not expect so much, but he is in the first-team and so I can’t demand any less.

He always seems to be in so much thought and not in the game. He is always one second late, makes stupid decisions, doesn’t use his physicality appropriately, and his passing ability the first third is atrocious.

I said this before, but he seems to have a fish’s brain in a grown man’s body.
 
He's actually been slightly better than I expected since he arrived, but still looks far from the required standard. I guess we have to give him time but it's hard to imagine that a player with such glaring technical limitations will improve significantly when he's already 20 year old.
 
I just dont know how the feck we end up with these kind of dud signings.

Should have just signed no-one and try again in Summer. Dorgu is just a Malacia with more speed. Atleast Malacia was defensively okay.
Because the club is constantly in a desperate position and feels the need to do something. All the talk in January was about whether Amorim was going to be backed and/or if players were going to be sold out from under him. It was clearly a rushed signing made with the intention of publically getting behind the manager and his system after his bad start. Whether that was wise or not, I guess we'll find out...
 
Poor signing so far. In what aspect has he improved us? He's shaky when defending, regularly manages to mess up simple passes and clearly isn't that good going forward. We spent £30m on him in January when we could've loaned 2 attackers and almost certainly been better off results wise. I've really not been impressed so far, imo he's our worst option at wingback.
 
That rational comment really got to you didn't it! :lol:

It's clearly a team that involves resting players for Thursday, there's almost unanimous agreement on here, you've even agreed with another poster about that.

Handing a youth player their first senior start as part of a team that's clearly rotational away to a Newcastle team that absolutely battered us at home certainly has an air of desperation about it.

Like I said though, let's see if it pays off, as I've said multiple times I really want to be wrong about this and for Amass to play brilliantly, it just seems very unlikely given the circumstances.
No you downplaying Amass making his full debut by calling the manager desperate really got to me. In any case he was ok, hopefully we can beat Lyon and Amass can get more minutes in the league
 
No you downplaying Amass making his full debut by calling the manager desperate really got to me. In any case he was ok, hopefully we can beat Lyon and Amass can get more minutes in the league

It was pretty desperate, and Amass demonstrated his lack of readiness, the poor lad was bullied and then threw himself off the pitch stupidly to leave a simple pass and tap in for the second Newcastle goal.

For all his technical talent, which nobody is denying, he was physically outmatched.
 
It was pretty desperate, and Amass demonstrated his lack of readiness, the poor lad was bullied and then threw himself off the pitch stupidly to leave a simple pass and tap in for the second Newcastle goal.

For all his technical talent, which nobody is denying, he was physically outmatched.

I think Amass handled himself well against one of the most physical sides in the league. He was ok, was physically outmatched at times and at times did very well too. More minutes will help him adapt to the physicality of the level. I’ll leave the Dorgu assessment for today to you
 
I think Amass handled himself well against one of the most physical sides in the league. He was ok, was physically outmatched at times and at times did very well too. More minutes will help him adapt to the physicality of the level. I’ll leave the Dorgu assessment for today to you

Yeah i would be more concerned with the grown men that got manhandled all afternoon in midfield. Harry did alright.
 
not his fault he’s been thrown in at the deep end , he should have only be integrated into this team this season. But instead he’s a regular because our squad is absolutely terrible