P&G Draft - R1: Team Beam vs Enigma Bonito
- Thread starter Physiocrat
- Start date
As we mentioned probably 20 times in last 24 hours, football isnt black and white....just because the main instructions are to get back into shape that doesnt mean they will never press, its not like we will sub Butragueno for Crouch because he dared to press someone, we might sub him for Crouch for different reasons but thats another story, story of unreturned love...
In most cases you have time to get back into shape because very rarely a player loses a ball in a clear duel and in dangerous area, specially at this level. So the main tactic is to get back in defensive shape and secure the lines. When there will be opportunuty to press highly or there will be a need for high press to stop the counter of course they will press. This isnt getting it both ways, this is football. For example, tiki taka is probably the most strict tactic when it comes to passing options, you go short 90% of the time but of course players passed it long and direct when opportunity was there.
@harms yeah, that was the inspiration
In most cases you have time to get back into shape because very rarely a player loses a ball in a clear duel and in dangerous area, specially at this level. So the main tactic is to get back in defensive shape and secure the lines. When there will be opportunuty to press highly or there will be a need for high press to stop the counter of course they will press. This isnt getting it both ways, this is football. For example, tiki taka is probably the most strict tactic when it comes to passing options, you go short 90% of the time but of course players passed it long and direct when opportunity was there.
@harms yeah, that was the inspiration
Not sure which back and forth was more funny and reaching to being pointless. This or the MJJ/EAP one 
I think it's a joke. I can understand how it would be difficult to visualise though given how multifaceted the roles are supposed to be. I do think though England showed that such a system can work and work smoothly. Obviously they didn't come up against your midfield, but England had Lingard, Alli and Henderson in midfield.
Henderson, Lingard and Alli are hugely inferior but it has nothing to do with this game mate. All of them have much higher work rate than Giresse and Laudrup. Couldn't be much different IMO.
It's well known draft plan tho. You just reflect the negatives and weaknesses about your team. When it becomes pointless it works in your favor as voters will begin to skim through it.Not sure which back and forth was more funny and reaching to being pointless. This or the MJJ/EAP one
Really surprised that the midfield battle is seen this way have to say. Giresse, Laudrup and Redondo is great midfield on the ball, but really one of the worst when on the backfoot. Redondo would be easily overwhelmed in this set up...
Yea, not an appropriate example.
Redondo and Makelele do get this leeway due to those Madrid teams though. Always tough to imagine it working against an all time setup.
The lack of a number 10 on your team does make it a little easy to imagine it working though (I am not arguing if it will work or not, simply dunno and I keep going back and forth. Would withdraw my vote if I could)
Think you could we've seen it in drafts before
If anything is to change your mind mate think Davids/Neeskens combo would limit and close spaces when we're defending deeper whereas #10 won't. Either of them makes it easier to play on the counter as they would constantly harass and press the opposition to a mistake.
Team Beam weak point is on the backfoot, think we can agree on that with only one ball winner in midfield. Also those Real teams played on counter not on possession based football witnessed here. They seems to be getting all the benefits from both worlds yet masking the weaknesses.
Cristiano is criminally underrated here. We've seen him being a decisive figure over and over again against 5-3-2 of last even off his peak, scoring goals for fun, yet couldn't break Armfield and Stam defending wide.
England setup showed you you can play this system with 2 attacking midfielders in midfield, yes Lingard is a proper workhorse but Alli is not.
As i said many times, Giresse was a busy little fecker, ultimate team player and ever willing to sacrifice for the team. I have ZERO doubts he would blossom in this system and thats why i was begging Beam we go for him even though we could have easily went for a more attractive and easy option.
Laudrup i also have concerns but thats why he is there with Butragueno. End of the day, this system gives you a lot of protection, Redondo doesnt really care does he have protection next to him or behind him, as long as he has someone he is fine and here we have those bodies at the back which plays it nicely against your lot.
Also what we are forgetting is that having the ball is the best possible defence, with your team set up as you said it is, with player profiles we have on the pitch and with Redondo pretty much being free in offensive side of the game we will control the game for most of the time. So what england gained with a workhorse in Lingard we gained here with actual football players in midfield because contrast to england, we can keep the possession and control the game, something they couldnt.
As i said many times, Giresse was a busy little fecker, ultimate team player and ever willing to sacrifice for the team. I have ZERO doubts he would blossom in this system and thats why i was begging Beam we go for him even though we could have easily went for a more attractive and easy option.
Laudrup i also have concerns but thats why he is there with Butragueno. End of the day, this system gives you a lot of protection, Redondo doesnt really care does he have protection next to him or behind him, as long as he has someone he is fine and here we have those bodies at the back which plays it nicely against your lot.
Also what we are forgetting is that having the ball is the best possible defence, with your team set up as you said it is, with player profiles we have on the pitch and with Redondo pretty much being free in offensive side of the game we will control the game for most of the time. So what england gained with a workhorse in Lingard we gained here with actual football players in midfield because contrast to england, we can keep the possession and control the game, something they couldnt.
Wonder what @Cal? thinks of Armfield or Stam on the backfoot neutralizing Ronaldo here.
Regarding Ronaldo, we asked you about what version of him you guys are using but i dont recall we got a clear answer. You guys said Madrid but IMO he has 2 versions from there. Nice bit of deflecting
He is being dealt with Armfield who was considered best european fullback at the time and a beast called Jaap Stam who is not only a great player but a perfect tactical fit for Ronaldo. He always had MUCH more creativity behind himself then you guys have in your team + im not sure him and Robben would like playing with each other, just a matter of time for one to start bitching around how other is selfish.
Its not discussed much just like our attack wasnt, who and how will Romario be stopped with so much creativity behind him, Butragueno vs Panucci is probably the biggest mismatch on the pitch(bigger then Sergi vs Robben as Sergi at least has pace and agility to at least try to stop Robben + has security of back 3 behind him).
He is being dealt with Armfield who was considered best european fullback at the time and a beast called Jaap Stam who is not only a great player but a perfect tactical fit for Ronaldo. He always had MUCH more creativity behind himself then you guys have in your team + im not sure him and Robben would like playing with each other, just a matter of time for one to start bitching around how other is selfish.
Its not discussed much just like our attack wasnt, who and how will Romario be stopped with so much creativity behind him, Butragueno vs Panucci is probably the biggest mismatch on the pitch(bigger then Sergi vs Robben as Sergi at least has pace and agility to at least try to stop Robben + has security of back 3 behind him).
Regarding Ronaldo, we asked you about what version of him you guys are using but i dont recall we got a clear answer. You guys said Madrid but IMO he has 2 versions from there. Nice bit of deflecting
He is being dealt with Armfield who was considered best european fullback at the time and a beast called Jaap Stam who is not only a great player but a perfect tactical fit for Ronaldo. He always had MUCH more creativity behind himself then you guys have in your team + im not sure him and Robben would like playing with each other, just a matter of time for one to start bitching around how other is selfish.
Its not discussed much just like our attack wasnt, who and how will Romario be stopped with so much creativity behind him, Butragueno vs Panucci is probably the biggest mismatch on the pitch(bigger then Sergi vs Robben as Sergi at least has pace and agility to at least try to stop Robben + has security of back 3 behind him).
Ronaldo has 2 versions at Real?
I've already answered on page 1 mate. The version that scored 50-60 goals on regular basis with overlapping left back like here in Gordillo.The second version I assume is when he lost a step or two, but makes no sense to play that...
But tagging cal? is a cry for help, its like Moyes turning towards Fergie in the stands and asking him to come down.
Players can feel those things, their heads are gone and we just won the match no matter what the voting outcome will be in few hours.
Players can feel those things, their heads are gone and we just won the match no matter what the voting outcome will be in few hours.
Ronaldo has 2 versions at Real?
The second version I assume is when he lost a step or two, but makes no sense to play that...
IMO he has, early version and late version so by your reaction you are playing early version, great. Would pay to watch him and Robben in their melodrama.
Don't think I'll get a formation out of @Šjor Bepo he's saving it like the Holy Grail itself and neither manager seems to have an idea how they will shape up in attack
@Isotope @Skizzo @P-Nut0712 @RedTiger @oneniltothearsenal @Gio @Ecstatic
Good luck guys in the end. It has been emotional
Well since you put it this way and unfortunately won't be much available in the latter stages of the game so tagging some of the managers who haven't voted to share their opinions on the game, so it's fairBut tagging cal? is a cry for help, its like Moyes turning towards Fergie in the stands and asking him to come down.
Players can feel those things, their heads are gone and we just won the match no matter what the voting outcome will be in few hours.
@Isotope @Skizzo @P-Nut0712 @RedTiger @oneniltothearsenal @Gio @Ecstatic
Good luck guys in the end. It has been emotional
I think this is the game I’ve struggled with the most so far
I opened the thread and saw Team Beam and thought it was settled. Then saw the opposition and hoped the discussion would sway me one way or the other, and I’ve come back about 4 times since and been no closer to being able to decide
I opened the thread and saw Team Beam and thought it was settled. Then saw the opposition and hoped the discussion would sway me one way or the other, and I’ve come back about 4 times since and been no closer to being able to decide
This is a tough one, not least because I see Gio getting credited for my profiling efforts on P1
Team Beam is more nuanced and creative in midfield. The Laudrup-Romario link always has me drooling. I'm not a fan of a holding Redondo (great, but not fully exploited) or the fullbacks (Armfield for the setup, Sergi given the Robben threat as he is a great fit).
Therein lies the problem as I see Enigma Bonito being very very effective on the break. Tito would be playing them through all day long.
There's more leadership, determination and grit across Team Enigma Bonito (required to play to their strengths).
If Team Beam score first it's a hard climb back into the game. If Enigma Bonito do they could end up completely out of sight.
I can't think of a better midfield setup to deal with Team Beam. It sacrifices creativity and flair, but it's as effective as it could conceivably be so I take that as the tie breaker in that Cristiano and Robben are rampant while their defensive setup can limit their rival's effectiveness.
Team Beam is more nuanced and creative in midfield. The Laudrup-Romario link always has me drooling. I'm not a fan of a holding Redondo (great, but not fully exploited) or the fullbacks (Armfield for the setup, Sergi given the Robben threat as he is a great fit).
Therein lies the problem as I see Enigma Bonito being very very effective on the break. Tito would be playing them through all day long.
There's more leadership, determination and grit across Team Enigma Bonito (required to play to their strengths).
If Team Beam score first it's a hard climb back into the game. If Enigma Bonito do they could end up completely out of sight.
I can't think of a better midfield setup to deal with Team Beam. It sacrifices creativity and flair, but it's as effective as it could conceivably be so I take that as the tie breaker in that Cristiano and Robben are rampant while their defensive setup can limit their rival's effectiveness.
But tagging cal? is a cry for help, its like Moyes turning towards Fergie in the stands and asking him to come down.
Players can feel those things, their heads are gone and we just won the match no matter what the voting outcome will be in few hours.
This match thread has to be one of the classics.
Aye, that's nail on the head really. Too bad others can't see it that way...This is a tough one, not least because I see Gio getting credited for my profiling efforts on P1
Team Beam is more nuanced and creative in midfield. The Laudrup-Romario link always has me drooling. I'm not a fan of a holding Redondo (great, but not fully exploited) or the fullbacks (Armfield for the setup, Sergi given the Robben threat as he is a great fit).
Therein lies the problem as I see Enigma Bonito being very very effective on the break. Tito would be playing them through all day long.
There's more leadership, determination and grit across Team Enigma Bonito (required to play to their strengths).
If Team Beam score first it's a hard climb back into the game. If Enigma Bonito do they could end up completely out of sight.
I can't think of a better midfield setup to deal with Team Beam. It sacrifices creativity and flair, but it's as effective as it could conceivably be so I take that as the tie breaker in that Cristiano and Robben are rampant while their defensive setup can limit their rival's effectiveness.
Also Gio posted it in the last draft so I took it from him, but knew you might have hand in this.
Think you could we've seen it in drafts before
Consider my vote withdrawn.
Think this is one of those games which would come down to player performances on the day.
Still consider Team Beam just about making it work without a number 10 in your ranks, but that is too fine a margin to vote one way.
Aye, that's nail on the head really. Too bad others can't see it that way...
Also Gio posted it in the last draft so I took it from him, but knew you might have hand in this.
he said its a tough one and that it might go both ways, you said how we build the most disfunctional team ever and how would you just walk through us so quoting him and saying nail on had like he said what you are saying all the time is funny. Maybe your future is in politics, that part of the game is quite good by the look of things
here we go
What is that?Redondo walks past Careca, dribbles in between Goncalves and Neeskens, only to turn around and take the piss out of Neeskens again. Maybe he gives the ball to Laudrup, who makes an S-shaped pass directly into the feet of Romario to slot it in
This match is a classic. I love it.
Have to be honest. I just love having good wingers.
That might been the actual game plan, mind.
Redondo walks past Careca, dribbles in between Goncalves and Neeskens, only to turn around and take the piss out of Neeskens again. Maybe he gives the ball to Laudrup, who makes an S-shaped pass directly into the feet of Romario to slot it in
This match is a classic. I love it.
Yes, we are deflecting and deceiving voters by answering every single question about the formation on which we basically got the answer back "erm, nope, that's a wall of text, won't discuss or count that"
On the other hand, there are 4 posts on the previous page implying that the score is heavily on our side long before the end and then a final cry to Cal with Ronaldo argument.
Can only repeat what my right hand said. Sheeeeeeit....
On the other hand, there are 4 posts on the previous page implying that the score is heavily on our side long before the end and then a final cry to Cal with Ronaldo argument.
Can only repeat what my right hand said. Sheeeeeeit....
@Enigma_87
@Joga Bonito
good game and you built a great team, tbh you guys were one of the few teams we wanted to avoid.
@Joga Bonito
good game and you built a great team, tbh you guys were one of the few teams we wanted to avoid.
Yeah, we talked about it and your team (along with one other) we definitely preferred to avoid, especially because of that great midfield of yours.
@Enigma_87 @Joga Bonito thanks for a great game and giving us more than few headaches along the way.
@Enigma_87 @Joga Bonito thanks for a great game and giving us more than few headaches along the way.
Let down by team mates again...
Good game @Šjor Bepo @Jim Beam , felt dirty arguing against Laudrup and Giresse (and tried to pretend Schulz wasn't on your side, ridiculous that he was 25m btw) but had to be done , best of luck going forward guys.
, best of luck going forward guys.Well done lads @Šjor Bepo @Jim Beam ! I stand what I’ve said that to me your midfield is a bit light but I’m sure you’ll address that in the reinforcement round.
You guys did pretty well arguing your case and it was really intense (and full of headaches for both sides) game.
Best of luck going forward
You guys did pretty well arguing your case and it was really intense (and full of headaches for both sides) game.
Best of luck going forward
Don't think I'll get a formation out of @Šjor Bepo he's saving it like the Holy Grail itself and neither manager seems to have an idea how they will shape up in attack
Well since you put it this way and unfortunately won't be much available in the latter stages of the game so tagging some of the managers who haven't voted to share their opinions on the game, so it's fair
@Isotope @Skizzo @P-Nut0712 @RedTiger @oneniltothearsenal @Gio @Ecstatic
Good luck guys in the end. It has been emotional
Sorry. Ill the last two days and busy today.
I think you could have been more offensive so a 4-4-2 with Neeskens-Davids in central midfield. I have the feeling that your full-back are balanced so I would have replaced Nestor Goncalves by an offensive player to support Careca.
I like the rationale of Team Beam (playmaking midfield, connection Romario-Laudrup) but I would have loved more shining/offensive full-back in a 3-5-2 system. I have just watched the video about Armfield so it's great to really discover this player whose stamina seems high. I selected Butrageno in a previous draft and I had mixed feelings: I don't know if he's really a consistent player (similar thoughts about Paolo Rossi) with a sense of sacrifice as I see Laudrup-Giresse trying to compensate the relatively lack of offensive impact of the FB in this context.
So, the choice is between a brilliant team with a lot of creativity and a powerful team with players more suited to win the battle midfield, good against evil
Well done @Šjor Bepo @Jim Beam. The scoreline reflects what was quite clearly a close game, most likely going down to whether Laudrup turned up in full flight.
I'd really have a look at Armfield there. I have a hard time buying an English wingback in a 3-5-2.
Btw, wasn't this supposed to be a draft where you got a GOAT and a bunch of second tier players? Looks like a regular All-Time draft to me.
I'd really have a look at Armfield there. I have a hard time buying an English wingback in a 3-5-2.
Btw, wasn't this supposed to be a draft where you got a GOAT and a bunch of second tier players? Looks like a regular All-Time draft to me.
I take it you are in the sack Mourinho camp
It is in a sense that budget limits you, but then again if you dig or find some under the radar players (not listed or not valued so much) you will still be able to put a pretty strong lineup. Armfield, Schulz and Giresse in our case and on their side, you had Carvalho, Gordillo and Goncalves who were all I think not listed players and valued at minimum prices. Likewise in other teams.
Good game @Šjor Bepo @Jim Beam , felt dirty arguing against Laudrup and Giresse (and tried to pretend Schulz wasn't on your side, ridiculous that he was 25m btw) but had to be done
Yeah, had the same problem with Neeskens.