Oh, I fully agree with you on that. Looks like the picture is conflicting with the role he's playing. He'll be in defence full time. There are no attacking/playmaking requirements from him.
@Physiocrat please update below change in OP.
P&G Draft - R1: MJJ vs P-Nut/EAP
- Thread starter Physiocrat
- Start date
Oh, I fully agree with you on that. Looks like the picture is conflicting with the role he's playing. He'll be in defence full time. There are no attacking/playmaking requirements from him.
@Physiocrat please update below change in OP.
Just to quote what I posted in main thread again...
This is a typical Eusebio run. Pick up from the deep right midfield, run at the defence using this pace, some trickers and GOAL!
Seedorf is a good CM used in a fulltime DM role here....Eusebio is a level ahead.
This is typical Zidane:
This is a typical Eusebio run. Pick up from the deep right midfield, run at the defence using this pace, some trickers and GOAL!
Seedorf is a good CM used in a fulltime DM role here....Eusebio is a level ahead.
This is typical Zidane:
@Edgar Allan Pillow yeah that's way better IMO. Especially for those who aren't all that familiar with Shesternyov's game.
He didnt, thats why I said at his peak he was close to zidane. If he could do it consistently, he would obviously be ranked much higher.
Blanchflower was known for his ability to play but he was also a hard worker,good tackler with good positioning. You might need to shield the defense as your back four is pretty weak but mine is extremely strong. Seedorf playing a B2B and Blanchflower as DLP work just fine in that context.
Just to quote what I posted in main thread again...
This is a typical Eusebio run. Pick up from the deep right midfield, run at the defence using this pace, some trickers and GOAL!
Seedorf is a good CM used in a fulltime DM role here....Eusebio is a level ahead.
This is typical Zidane:
Like I said ronaldo is better than eusebio at doing that and vierchowod kept him quiet, its misleading to compare eusebio against seedorf when he will be up against scirea and vierchowod.
I also find it funny that you are questioning riquelme while playing jarni at left back. Given the weakness of your fullbacks, I really dont see much width for your attack and that limits zidane's passing options.
Difference being he has done it for a longer and more consistent period than them both, his villareal side was a thing of beauty.
Oh, I fully agree with you on that. Looks like the picture is conflicting with the role he's playing. He'll be in defence full time. There are no attacking/playmaking requirements from him.
@Physiocrat please update below change in OP.
Changed
You should compare Ronaldo with van Basten as they are both top #9s. Eusebio is a different kind of player who like to drop deep pick at balls and run at defence...which neither of Vierchowod nor Scirea will be able to track...and Seedorf will not be able to stop.
And saying Ronaldo will never have joy against Vierchowod is quite a bad argument. If they face each other 10 games, I expect Ronaldo to get the upper hand in 8 of those....same with van Basten.
Ronaldo is closer to Eusebio in playing style than van Basten. Nobody would compare his style of play to van Basten's.
You are talking about two of the best cbs in the history of football here, do you think they had never had anyone drop deep?
You still haven't addressed the lack of width issue.
Just read up on the players or watch some videos before you post such comments
You are the one comparing ronaldo to van Basten sooooo.
How about you address it since it's the whole point of the match or is taking pictures with Liverpool players more important?
Ronaldo and van Basten are traditional #9 CF's. Eusebio is more a supporting striker and best played behind a CF in a free role. His speciality is dropping back, picking up the ball from the deep and running at the defence....which is unlike anything you see from MvB or R9 on a regular basis.
Iirc Jarni did play the wingback in back 3 for Croatia successfully in the WC without a traditional winger ahead and his output for width never had any issues. Sagnol's crossing should not be questioned.
Here is Sagnol and Zidane combining to get a class save from Buffon.
That simply isn't true. Ronaldo at his peak dropped deep and played as a quasi-10. You wouldn't partner Hernandez with Vieri but you would with Ronaldo. While Ronaldo may not have dropped deep as often as Eusebio, he's more similar to a Eusebio than MVB. I think Balu had Ronaldo and Eusebio as a front two in a draft once and he lost mostly because voters thought Eusebio and Ronaldo's roles overlapped too much.
R9 and MvB are potentially the best #9s ever. Complete all rounders. Play them alone or pair them with anyone, they'll shine. Eusebio to an extend falls in the same level, but what sets him apart is when played behind a CF. He's just spectacular and contributes more to midfield than either of R9 or MvB.
So you'd partner MVB with Vieri? Are you Joe Kinnear in disguise?
You're portraying van Basten as a better version of Inzaghi, ffs!
Yeah, he is known more for his spectacular goals, but he's a complete forward able to score and to create for others.Ronaldo and van Basten are traditional #9 CF's. Eusebio is more a supporting striker and best played behind a CF in a free role. His speciality is dropping back, picking up the ball from the deep and running at the defence....which is unlike anything you see from MvB or R9 on a regular basis.
Iirc Jarni did play the wingback in back 3 for Croatia successfully in the WC without a traditional winger ahead and his output for width never had any issues. Sagnol's crossing should not be questioned.
Here is Sagnol and Zidane combining to get a class save from Buffon.
Really? And you are the one telling people to go watch videos? R9 has a lot more in common with Eusebio than he does with Van Basten.So what happens if Jarni gets caught upfield with Hamrin alone against montero or the same on the other side with lizarazu/boniek against sagnol?
Who's cover Eusebio when he drop deep? Seedorf?
So what happens if Jarni gets caught upfield with Hamrin alone against montero or the same on the other side with lizarazu/boniek against sagnol?
If one full back gets caught high up the pitch, we have a LCB and RCB more than capable at drifting out wide to manage the threat and our defence becomes a back 4 momentarily.
Width is so severely underrated in draft games its crazy. Especially when you contrast with the transfer forum where people are dying for us to sign a right winger.
PNut is on, so I'm heading out.
Which gets destroyed? One on one your defenders cant touch my attackers. Also can only one of you argue at a time please.
Tell me about it, EAP/P-nut are basically playing with one player who will drift wide in eusebio and somehow zidane will make it work.Whoever is closer to him? He is going to drop in a congested midfield which will cause issues.
Whereas I have scirea/blanchflower both of whom can playmake from deep, two wingers staying outwide and making runs inside and suarez drifting all over. The simple movement will kill your average defense.
It's not. There are ample instances where teams not sporting a winger have won. Somehow that seems to get forgotten.
There are, and I am not denying it. I just personally feel that the ratio of draft teams sporting 3 man backlines with no wingers are way skewed compared to what we see in real world.
This is overly true in all-time(ish) drafts where quality is great, I feel its just an inefficient use of resources and available space. Its just diminishing returns, when you have somebody as brilliant as Van Basten to score your goals and Zidane to create, adding a Eusebio doesn't really give you as much as adding say a George Best / Garrincha or even some lesser winger would. Because no matter how you'd dice it (Eusebio runs deep or goes wide etc) Eusebio's fame is built upon the goals (both sheer numbers and quality) he scored and you don't really need it. Same goes for 3 central defenders defending against a lone striker, those resources really could be utilized much better.
Which gets destroyed? One on one your defenders cant touch my attackers. Also can only one of you argue at a time please.
Whoever is closer to him? He is going to drop in a congested midfield which will cause issues.
Whereas I have scirea/blanchflower both of whom can playmake from deep, two wingers staying outwide and making runs inside and suarez drifting all over. The simple movement will kill your average defense.
Already sorted as you can see above, chill out mate.
As for the width issue, I'd possibly agree if we were playing a back 4 Jarni and Sagnol wouldn't be able to provide that width. Here they've got additional cover than usual, which in turn allows them to push on more. You don't seem to be grasping that although not star names, Montero and Azpiliceuta are rock solid defensively and adept at playing central or wide. In the roles they are in now, they are perfect fits.
Ok so whoever is closest to Eusebio will track him, who do you see that being most of the time.
Again with the average defence. I've provided you with posts on both of the CBs you have decided are average, demonstrating they have never been labelled as such. In fact, both are/we're regarded as amongst the best defenders in their leagues.
As for Jarni I'll just leave the below here for you, he's playing in the exact same role as he is in now by the way.
Not sure I agree. Think how many times we see a side that usually plays a back 4 have to change to a back 3 when meeting someone that plays it regularly.
By having the extra man in the backline, it actually allows you to put more players in the attacking phases of the game.
Yeah, I just came from reading some threads on our tactics for next season and it made me depressed so feel free to ignore me
. I just love wingers man, its such an important & exciting part of the game, can't really get myself ready for 3-5-2 that Mourinho is going to play next season.For your wing backs to provide width they would need to be positioned pretty high on the pitch or atleast on average with the DMs. That leaves my three attackers against your three defenders which only ends one way. If you are playing a back five then often enough Zidane will be isolated when he receives the ball as both fullbacks will be sitting deeper. They can't magically appear up the pitch.
And they are average though in an all time context, that's why you picked them up at 15m apiece.
Eusebio if he drifts wide will be picked up by either of the fullbacks, if he picks up the ball from deep then either the closest mid or scirea will close him down. Given your setup when he drops deep there is only van Basten to aim at.
One on one I would rely on scirea against eusebio.
Eusebio if he drifts wide will be picked up by either of the fullbacks, if he picks up the ball from deep then either the closest mid or scirea will close him down. Given your setup when he drops deep there is only van Basten to aim at.
One on one I would rely on scirea against eusebio.
It's not magic they will use their legs and run.
Just one post ago you was asking what happens if Jarni/Sagnol get caught up field and now you're trying to say they'll never be there.
You're making it out as though it's going to be a static game, with every player standing in their position. Full backs provide width in the modern game, and now you're trying to claim wingbacks can't do it.
Only Azpiliceuta was picked up for 15m. And why is he average in an all time sense? He's one of the premier leagues best ever defenders, proving himself in multiple positions. It also means that he's suited to the RCB role which you seem to keep ignoring.
When Eusebio drops deep do you think Zidane will just stand and watch? If one comes short the other will push into his position. Again you're making out as if my side won't move at all and will just stand in their positions making the game easy for you.
Okay so Zidane will have enough time on the ball for both/one of the fullbacks to run up the pitch?
Fullbacks can't provide width and defend at the same time, that's why you rarely see them without wingers.
In your system the average starting position of fullbacks has to be closer to mid if they are providing width. See Alves at sevilla.
They can't be part of the back five and support the attack at the same time.
The same api conceded four goald against Watford and three against Bournemouth this very year. He is one of the best in the PL but that doesn't say much.
Is your argument really that wingbacks can't defend and provide width in the same game? If so then I'll just leave it at that as I don't really know what to say to that.
@P-Nut0712 Are you playing counter-attack or are you trying to keep possession and control proceedings? If in between is it more towards counter-attack or possession?
You could do the same for any player ever to play the game.
Lizarazu conceding 3 in consecutive games
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/6861
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/6663
Vierchowod conceding 4 against Torino
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/2286054
Scirea conceding 4 multiple times
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/2375666
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/2377411
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/2377886
For some reason transfermrkt doesn't have stats for McGrain but surely you can see the point by now.
Yeah, I just came from reading some threads on our tactics for next season and it made me depressed so feel free to ignore me
Especially with the way United used to play with two out and out wingers. I can’t imagine winning any draft here playing 4-4-2.. It’s really unlikely
It's in the OP. It's balanced with a slight emphasis on counter attacking.
Thanks
No the aegument is that there is a trade off, your wing backs can't defend as well as fullbacks or provide width and attack as well as wingers. So your side either lacks width or if you instruct them to push up, it means you will be left with three at the back.