Personally feel like the match will be lost on the evra/vidic flank.
Doubt marcelo will be getting much joy down the beckham/neal flank.
Doubt marcelo will be getting much joy down the beckham/neal flank.
P&G Draft - QF: harms vs Team Beam
- Thread starter Physiocrat
- Start date
I like Giresse but Gullit would be a clear upgrade in almost every respect. I'll watch the Marcelo videos later if I get the chance. You make a good point about Romario Vs Vidic as even with a deeper defence Romario's acceleration could be a problem
No question that Gullit is the superior player but for this team its Giresse. His individual impact might not be as big as Gullits but he will make everyone around him better, something that Gullit wont do + he is a much better fit for a possession heavy system where he would find himself in tight spots more often then not. But not important for this discussion though
No question that Gullit is the superior player but for this team its Giresse. His individual impact might not be as big as Gullits but he will make everyone around him better, something that Gullit wont do + he is a much better fit for a possession heavy system where he would find himself in tight spots more often then not. But not important for this discussion though
I may or may not have a vested interest in promoting Gullit
Agree with this. Fits like a glove.No question that Gullit is the superior player but for this team its Giresse. His individual impact might not be as big as Gullits but he will make everyone around him better, something that Gullit wont do + he is a much better fit for a possession heavy system where he would find himself in tight spots more often then not. But not important for this discussion though
Ehm? Law is one of the most hardworking strikers ever. Just watch a game with him — or Joga's compilations.
SAF said:
Giles said:
et cetera et ceteraGreig said:
If harms wants any chance in this game then Beckham should be nowhere near Marcelo as he needs to help his midfield as much as he can and he cant do that if he marks Marcelo on the line. Its going to be Marcelo vs Neal and i know where my money is in that bet.
They don't even have a right winger?
i said i dont know.....long time since i watched Law so i forgot, thats why i mentioned it.
Not really, since Bobby will always be there
Rio was always there as well
I am thinking more in terms of romario attacking down the flank(between evra and vidic) with laudrup passing, I doubt resenbrink will help out much and can see his side creating overload on that flank.
Shouldn't have added "...suspect not that great" then. Check any video from this thread
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/cla...e-greatest-forward-in-uniteds-history.430924/
Can't see it being the match winner when there's Pelé and Law on the other side but fair enough.
I think his midfield will hold his own as yours is going to spend a large part of its energy in dealing with pele.
Agree with harms that seems a little bit harsh on Evra / Vidic given they’re primarily up against Armfield (and occasionally Giresse).
If Romario roams out to the right wing that seems like a positive thing for harms.
So Effenberg Lerby pair will hold their own against a diamond of Redondo Davids Giresse and Laudrup? Ok.
I am leaning 60-40 towards a beam win so might still change my mind, just feel that he can limit pele's influence here to an extent with his midfielders and defence while your does the same with laudrup.
You're really overestimating your midfield. It's great, but it's not going to keep 70% of possession like Barca's would've, for example. Plus since Laudrup is a part of a front 2 (and not really a hardworking player), it's going to be 3 vs 3 (Davids, Redondo, Giresse vs Lerby, Effenberg and Beckham) for most of the time. And I've provided enough evidence for Lerby standing his own (and arguably outshining Giresse) in 2 different games and Effenberg having an upper hand in every encounter that he had with Redondo. Don't get me wrong, I think that your midfield is superior and it will have more possession, but you're far from dominating anything.
By the way, check this — and say me with a straight face that Laudrup will help your midfield more defensively. And notice that, like with Beckham, it doesn't take anything away from Law's attacking game — it was the way he was playing naturally.
edit: for some reason I said Davids instead of Redondo
Well the way I see it playing out is that davids+redondo will largely be concerned with trying to battle Pele so its more effenberg and lerby against giresse and laudrup. There I am giving you a slight edge as I think laudrup + romario will influence the game more than pele+law due to the differences in the defence for both sides.
If beckham does drift inside to help out with midfield, I can see marcelo running riot here and that will cause more damage to his side thats why I feel like he will help restrict marcelo influence with neal and cancel out that flank.
It's not a diamond, and it's not Effenberg - Lerby. First of all, Laudrup is a part of the attacking unit — and he is your secondary goalscoring threat, since you're "not only relying on Romario". Second, Beckham is playing - again, his natural game, where he contributes to midfield — and because of his skillset it, again, doesn't take much from his offensive game.
Plus Redondo is looking after Pelé, as your co-manager said...
I'm taking over
As was Messi... You don't have one (and you don't have any reliable goalscoring outlet apart from Romario)
let me respond to harms and then we make a sub
I feel like John fecking Rambo here
I feel like John fecking Rambo here
sorry, for sounding like that, the mindset was the same though
I agree Moore is an excellent fit for Romario but in this field it's mostly the striker who determines who they are up against not the defender
What I said is that he will cover him along with 3 world-class defenders behind him? Pele will run riot here losing the midfield battle as you said and I just can't get the thinking process in which he will pull the strings and decide with you constantly defending.
That Lerby game was great btw.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/2846913
Absolutely run the show.
Some persuasive head-to-head arguments @harms on Pele/Schulz, Effenberg/Redondo and Lerby/Giresse.
That's the thing, isn't it? I won't be constantly defending. I will have the ball less than you do but you don't have a Barca-esque possessional juggernaut that will deny me the ball.
With player profiles on the pitch and specially with how the teams are set up there is no question we will have a vast majority of the possession. Laudrup will play like Laudrup, this time he is free and ready to roam around where ever he wants, and lets not forget he often played in a front three for Barca and would then drop and do his thing so him being a second striker as you say its a non issue because it will ultimativly change nothing in his game.
So yeah, its a diamond and if Beckham(which is a no brainer for me) gets inside to help the midfield its going to isolate Marcelo against Neal.
We never really mentioned Laudrup as part of our defensive sheme so not sure why are you bringing that up?
Regarding individual battles from other games, its hardly relevent in most cases because the whole match dynamics are different. Schulz being in a possession heavy team protected by Stam, Ruggeri and Redondo at DM in front of him will very rarely if ever leave him 1v1 against Pele/Law.
As Lerby had great games against France and Giresse it also has to be said that Giresse had great games against them.
Regarding Effenberg and Redondo, cant really remember how they fared in their clash but i can remember that Madrid team wasnt that good with players being forced into the team and similar other issues they had at the time.
Yeah, that's clearly the part we disagree really. For your attacking power you will mostly lose (because of his defending part) Beckham cross danger and you will just go through the middle with a formidable defensive unit... Or Rosenbrink on the other flank.
Just can't see how you will have more chances in this game.
I have to go!
So much of Rambo
So much of Rambo
Not teaming up, just gonna leave it here as I have to go.
What a wonderful player and would be a shame when he is in the draft to not appreciate his genius.
What a wonderful player and would be a shame when he is in the draft to not appreciate his genius.
How do I lose his crossing ability because he helps out defensively? It's the way he always played (and it helped massively with our Keane/Scholes or Keane/Butt midfield), and the beauty of Beckham's crossing is that he can do it from pretty much anywhere on the pitch — he doesn't even need to beat his fullback.
this
or this
Because he will have to go in the centre being in the defensive phase to help Effenberg and Lerby? It' s not the way he played at United, more Madrid version.
Cheers moby. As expected from a man who loves Redondo, Modric and the likes of Westbrook.
We will go on the counter in the evening when harms gets complacent.