Ousmane Diomande

[pocco]

Not to derail this thread, but what happened to David Carmo? I was impressed by him at Braga, but he's had an unusual career since.

Got signed by Porto in a record deal between two Portuguese clubs, then gets demoted to their B team because of something inappropriate that he did. Then gets loaned to Olympiacos, then signed by Nottingham Forest for decent money on a 5 year deal, then loaned straight back to Okympiacos. Both Forest and Olympiacos are owned by the same guy.

What happened? And why are Forest signing players for decent money, in their peak years, and loaning them straight out?

I thought this guy would go on to become a decent CB, potentially very good, in the bits I'd seen of him. You'd think the Porto move would be the first step but it seems that it's gone massively wrong and they've quickly cut their losses. He must have done something bad for them to do that so quickly.

 

[cpresc]

Okay, let me ask you a few questions.

How did Sebastian Coates manage to be a mainstay in the centre of Amorim's defense for several seasons? He's definitely a slow defender.

How did Maguire excel in a high defensive line under Ole in both of the latter's full seasons?

How come that under ETH we played one of the lowest defensive lines in the entire league throughout his 2 full seasons, when Maguire was a bench player? And when we played one of the highest under Ole, Maguire was basically the first name on the team sheet?

Do you think pace is the only thing you need to be able to play in a high line?

If Maguire cannot play in a high line in your opinion, then how come the likes of De Ligt, Botman, Dias, and many other defenders with not much pace, have been excelling in high lines in other top teams, across the PL and other European top leagues? Even someone like van de Ven doesn't have great acceleration and mobility, despite his insane top speed. But he still plays in a high line every week.

Maguire is absolutely suited for a high defensive line, in fact, he's one of those players who actually enable you to play a high line and control games, and all phases of play, with his good anticipation, aerial dominance, and overall defensive skillset. All that's needed is a pacey defender next to him to cover for his one weakness. That's how other defenses are set up at other clubs, where the CCB is "slow" but still somehow one of the first names on the team sheet.

Yeah he looked great making that tackle on the halfway line against Twente

 

[didz]

Not to derail this thread, but what happened to David Carmo? I was impressed by him at Braga, but he's had an unusual career since.

Got signed by Porto in a record deal between two Portuguese clubs, then gets demoted to their B team because of something inappropriate that he did. Then gets loaned to Olympiacos, then signed by Nottingham Forest for decent money on a 5 year deal, then loaned straight back to Okympiacos. Both Forest and Olympiacos are owned by the same guy.

What happened? And why are Forest signing players for decent money, in their peak years, and loaning them straight out?

I thought this guy would go on to become a decent CB, potentially very good, in the bits I'd seen of him. You'd think the Porto move would be the first step but it seems that it's gone massively wrong and they've quickly cut their losses. He must have done something bad for them to do that so quickly.

Combination of things. One really bad injury, one fallout with a coach who never seemed to like him seeing him relegated to the B team, and his one biggest flaw - a lack of pace - being pretty badly exposed when he did get on the pitch for Porto, who expect their defenders to cover large spaces quickly.

Forest, I think, are just taking a chance on him and using Olympiakos as a sort of stable or halfway house where he might rehabilitate his career somewhat before they bring him into the Premier League at some point. Also, they just love signing players.

 

[pocco]

Combination of things. One really bad injury, one fallout with a coach who never seemed to like him seeing him relegated to the B team, and his one biggest flaw - a lack of pace - being pretty badly exposed when he did get on the pitch for Porto, who expect their defenders to cover large spaces quickly.

Forest, I think, are just taking a chance on him and using Olympiakos as a sort of stable or halfway house where he might rehabilitate his career somewhat before they bring him into the Premier League at some point. Also, they just love signing players.

Thanks for the explanation. I'd only seen fleeting bits at Braga when they were having a good season, and hadn't really seen enough to know his flaws. I noticed his aggression, physically solid, could hit a good pass with his left foot, if I recall. It makes more sense now. When I was reading about him yesterday it said he was demoted at Porto for some inappropriate behaviour, or something to that extent. Given they paid decent money, it's odd to bring him in and have a coach who just doesn't like him.

 

[Red_toad]

Okay, let me ask you a few questions.

How did Sebastian Coates manage to be a mainstay in the centre of Amorim's defense for several seasons? He's definitely a slow defender.

How did Maguire excel in a high defensive line under Ole in both of the latter's full seasons?

How come that under ETH we played one of the lowest defensive lines in the entire league throughout his 2 full seasons, when Maguire was a bench player? And when we played one of the highest under Ole, Maguire was basically the first name on the team sheet?

Do you think pace is the only thing you need to be able to play in a high line?

If Maguire cannot play in a high line in your opinion, then how come the likes of De Ligt, Botman, Dias, and many other defenders with not much pace, have been excelling in high lines in other top teams, across the PL and other European top leagues? Even someone like van de Ven doesn't have great acceleration and mobility, despite his insane top speed. But he still plays in a high line every week.

Maguire is absolutely suited for a high defensive line, in fact, he's one of those players who actually enable you to play a high line and control games, and all phases of play, with his good anticipation, aerial dominance, and overall defensive skillset. All that's needed is a pacey defender next to him to cover for his one weakness. That's how other defenses are set up at other clubs, where the CCB is "slow" but still somehow one of the first names on the team sheet.

If he can’t stay fit, is 32 before the end of the season and is on £190k a week, you seriously expect United to extend his contract?

 

[NZT-One]

If he can’t stay fit, is 32 before the end of the season and is on £190k a week, you seriously expect United to extend his contract?

You are asking the wrong guy. I think it is safe to say that he is a Maguire fan (which puts it very moderately) so the answer will always be yes for him.

 

[Rojofiam]

If he can’t stay fit, is 32 before the end of the season and is on £190k a week, you seriously expect United to extend his contract?

No, I think he's leaving on a free unless Amorim will consider him an important player and rely on him week in week out, but us buying de Ligt in the summer might mean we won't need Maguire anymore.

 

[Rojofiam]

Yeah he looked great making that tackle on the halfway line against Twente

We won the ball there btw. We also usually didn't play with a high line under ETH. There's enough evidence from Maguire's career to prove he can play very well in a high line, so picking out one action from hundreds of games doesn't really prove your point, especially when it was one where he actually made us win the ball basically.

 

[cpresc]

We won the ball there btw. We also usually didn't play with a high line under ETH. There's enough evidence from Maguire's career to prove he can play very well in a high line, so picking out one action from hundreds of games doesn't really prove your point, especially when it was one where he actually made us win the ball basically.

He literally just stood there and fell on his backside

 

[Adnan]

@Adnan works for United, confirmed!

Let's hope he proves me right and we can also bring Ousmane Diomande with him at some point. Diomande along with our current CB options would give us a great mix of physical, athletic and technical qualities. At 20 years of age he has the attributes to go on and potentially become a world class CB. He's physically and athletically already very good and also has the ability in possession to stay composed and play vertically at a good level for his age.

I think he can be utilised as the RCB or even the central CB in a 3 man back-line and if the opportunity is there to sign him, then for me it's a no brainer to sign a young player like him with his pace, power and technical qualities which is absolutely required in the EPL if you want to effectively press high via a higher defensive line with players at the back and deeper midfield controlling the spaces against quick opposition counter attacks when your high press is by-passed.

Having both Yoro and Diomande as CB options would be brilliant for us and then it's about bringing in a midfielder or two to raise the level in midfield which is a particular weakness imo.

 

[saik]

Let's hope he proves me right and we can also bring Ousmane Diomande with him at some point. Diomande along with our current CB options would give us a great mix of physical, athletic and technical qualities. At 20 years of age he has the attributes to go on and potentially become a world class CB. He's physically and athletically already very good and also has the ability in possession to stay composed and play vertically at a good level for his age.

I think he can be utilised as the RCB or even the central CB in a 3 man back-line and if the opportunity is there to sign him, then for me it's a no brainer to sign a young player like him with his pace, power and technical qualities which is absolutely required in the EPL if you want to effectively press high via a higher defensive line with players at the back and deeper midfield controlling the spaces against quick opposition counter attacks when your high press is by-passed.

Having both Yoro and Diomande as CB options would be brilliant for us and then it's about bringing in a midfielder or two to raise the level in midfield which is a particular weakness imo.

How do you compare him to Branthwaite? I'm pretty sure we wanted him this summer regardless of us signing Yoro and De Ligt. I can see us going for him again next summer as Maguire, Lindelof and Evans are all looking likely to leave and Branthwaite has the slight advantage of being English.

 

[Adnan]

How do you compare him to Branthwaite? I'm pretty sure we wanted him this summer regardless of us signing Yoro and De Ligt. I can see us going for him again next summer as Maguire, Lindelof and Evans are all looking likely to leave and Branthwaite has the slight advantage of being English.

Branthwaite could also add that extra bit of physicality and pace and has the advantage of having experience in the EPL. He's also left footed which could also be seen as a plus point and could potentially also turn out to be a good signing. But I think Diomande at 20 years of age could develop into a more rounded CB in the mid to long-term due to his progressive ability to thread the lines in the build-up phase whilst having the pace and power to control larger spaces against quick opposition counters.

I'd say Branthwaite would probaby have a more immediate impact but Diomande (imo) would need a bedding-in period due to his age and the step up to the higher quality in the EPL.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

In fact in playing a back three there is absolutely no reason why Branthwaite and Diomande couldn’t be brought into the set up and work well together.

Branthwaite’s main plus vs Diomande is his PL experience but both defend channels and space really well for their ages. Diomande has the higher ceiling although I’m unsure we’d be prioritising bringing him in after the Yoro signing as we currently have:

De Ligt
Martinez
Yoro
Maguire*
Lindelof*
Evans*

The three starred players are in their final years (although Maguire has the further +1 option) so id expect them all to be replaced in the summer.

For me it makes a lot of sense to replace Maguire with a Branthwaite and Lindelof with a Diomande and have your main 5 CBs competing for 3 spots being:

De Ligt
Martinez
Yoro
Diomande
Branthwaite

Then there is maybe an argument to converting Shaw to a LCB and bringing in a proper option at LB/LWB in Davies.

 

[NZT-One]

In fact in playing a back three there is absolutely no reason why Branthwaite and Diomande couldn’t be brought into the set up and work well together.

Branthwaite’s main plus vs Diomande is his PL experience but both defend channels and space really well for their ages. Diomande has the higher ceiling although I’m unsure we’d be prioritising bringing him in after the Yoro signing as we currently have:

De Ligt
Martinez
Yoro
Maguire*
Lindelof*
Evans*

The three starred players are in their final years (although Maguire has the further +1 option) so id expect them all to be replaced in the summer.

For me it makes a lot of sense to replace Maguire with a Branthwaite and Lindelof with a Diomande and have your main 5 CBs competing for 3 spots being:

De Ligt
Martinez
Yoro
Diomande
Branthwaite

Then there is maybe an argument to converting Shaw to a LCB and bringing in a proper option at LB/LWB in Davies.

But there is one - we can't spend fortunes on CBs every year while the rest of positions deteriote even further (looking at the midfield). On a player basis, your thoughts make sense but I think we'd be bonkers paying more than like 50 CB AGAIN this summer after having spent so much last summer as well. There have to be alternatives, lets not act as if only the best of the best is needed for the next step of the evolution. Wingbacks are needed, midfield should be looked at and the 10 positions we'll have to see whether the available players work. There is so much to do. We brought in Yoro as a future-project for the defense. Adding more to that account might be luxury we shouldn't affort to ourselves.

 

[DWelbz19]

But there is one - we can't spend fortunes on CBs every year while the rest of positions deteriote even further (looking at the midfield).

Honestly! Eriksen and Casemiro will (should) be leaving this summer. Mason Mount is a non-entity at this point in time. We desperately need to rebuild that central midfield with the right profiles. We cannot keep stockpiling on centre backs and then wonder why we fail to win midfield battles all season.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

But there is one - we can't spend fortunes on CBs every year while the rest of positions deteriote even further (looking at the midfield). On a player basis, your thoughts make sense but I think we'd be bonkers paying more than like 50 CB AGAIN this summer after having spent so much last summer as well. There have to be alternatives, lets not act as if only the best of the best is needed for the next step of the evolution. Wingbacks are needed, midfield should be looked at and the 10 positions we'll have to see whether the available players work. There is so much to do. We brought in Yoro as a future-project for the defense. Adding more to that account might be luxury we shouldn't affort to ourselves.

From a player profile point of view there’s no reason they wouldn’t compliment the squad and positions we’d need to likely fill in the summer.

In terms of summer purchases I am assuming the following happens:

1. Lindelof, Eriksen, Evans, Heaton leave on frees
2. Maguire potentially extended and attempts to sell.

That’s losing 3 CBs (all of which don’t necessarily profile brilliantly with a back 3) a controlling midfielder and backup GK.

That leaves in our senior squad:

GK - Onana/Bayindir
RWB - Dalot/Mazraoui
CB - De Ligt/Martinez/Yoro
LWB - Shaw/Malacia
CDM - Ugarte/Casemiro
CM - Mainoo
AM - Bruno/Mount
RAM - Amad/Antony
LAM - Garnacho/Rashford
ST - Højlund/Zirkzee

I’m defining CDM as the ball winner, RAM and LAM as wide forwards or possible wide attacking midfielders (Amad).

So for me before we look at who you might sell for a fee from that squad you have a glaring problem at:

1. LB​
2. CB​
3. CM​

We’re potentially short 2 LBs, 2 CBs and a CM.

 

[NZT-One]

From a player profile point of view there’s no reason they wouldn’t compliment the squad and positions we’d need to likely fill in the summer.

In terms of summer purchases I am assuming the following happens:

1. Lindelof, Eriksen, Evans, Heaton leave on frees
2. Maguire potentially extended and attempts to sell.

That’s losing 3 CBs (all of which don’t necessarily profile brilliantly with a back 3) a controlling midfielder and backup GK.

That leaves in our senior squad:

GK - Onana/Bayindir
RWB - Dalot/Mazraoui
CB - De Ligt/Martinez/Yoro
LWB - Shaw/Malacia
CDM - Ugarte/Casemiro
CM - Mainoo
AM - Bruno/Mount
RAM - Amad/Antony
LAM - Garnacho/Rashford
ST - Højlund/Zirkzee

I’m defining CDM as the ball winner, RAM and LAM as wide forwards or possible wide attacking midfielders (Amad).

So for me before we look at who you might sell for a fee from that squad you have a glaring problem at:

1. LB​
2. CB​
3. CM​

We’re potentially short 2 LBs, 2 CBs and a CM.

Sounds lovely even though I might change a few things. Doesn't matter though - if we are missing a CB at the summer, then lets get one from without a contract. Or a loan, I don't care. At some point we have to realize our loss but we can't attempt to rectify that on the cost of other areas of the team. And basically every area needs work at point.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Sounds lovely even though I might change a few things. Doesn't matter though - if we are missing a CB at the summer, then lets get one from without a contract. Or a loan, I don't care. At some point we have to realize our loss but we can't attempt to rectify that on the cost of other areas of the team. And basically every area needs work at point.

Even if we spent ~€50m per position it would be better to spend on quality profiles than cheap out.

We need to improve our ceiling the only potential available CBs on frees that would do that:

• Tah

That’s it. So we’re going to have to spend to improve that area.

 

[Godfather]

Honestly! Eriksen and Casemiro will (should) be leaving this summer. Mason Mount is a non-entity at this point in time. We desperately need to rebuild that central midfield with the right profiles. We cannot keep stockpiling on centre backs and then wonder why we fail to win midfield battles all season.

Or fail to score goals with the forwards we have

 

[NZT-One]

Even if we spent ~€50m per position it would be better to spend on quality profiles than cheap out.

We need to improve our ceiling the only potential available CBs on frees that would do that:

• Tah

That’s it. So we’re going to have to spend to improve that area.

While I agree completely with the premise, I think at the current situation, there is no need to prevent the risk of "cheaping out". We have De Ligt, Yoro and Martinez as CBs, Shaw can fill in if needed, Casemiro and Dalot maybe as well. We are not having to provide a squat next season to challenge for titles yet, there is just no need to go overboard for another CB that is going to rotate anyway. Especially not young one that needs minutes to continue their development. Considering what decent of a job Johnny Evans did, I'd have no issues tapping those regions once again. For now. Even that free CB that went to Chelsea would have done and such deals will always pop up.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

While I agree completely with the premise, I think at the current situation, there is no need to prevent the risk of "cheaping out". We have De Ligt, Yoro and Martinez as CBs, Shaw can fill in if needed, Casemiro and Dalot maybe as well. We are not having to provide a squat next season to challenge for titles yet, there is just no need to go overboard for another CB that is going to rotate anyway. Especially not young one that needs minutes to continue their development. Considering what decent of a job Johnny Evans did, I'd have no issues tapping those regions once again. For now. Even that free CB that went to Chelsea would have done and such deals will always pop up.

Deals only pop up if players are in the last year of their contracts. But I see what you mean.

 

[goncaloc10]

I’m not sure if you need him. But I can tell you something: this guy’s gonna be one of the best CB in the world in 1/2 years. He has absolutely everything. And he can play RCB in that line of the thee, too.

 

[sullydnl]

I’m not sure if you need him, prob De Ligt will adapt well to the new system. But I can tell you something: this guy’s gonna be one of the best CB in the world in 1/2 years. He has absolutely everything. And he can play RCB in that line of the thee, too.

A key bit of context is that three of our CBs (Maguire, Evans & Lindelof) are currently out of contract in the summer.

So whether we need Diomande specifically, we will definitely need to sign at least one CB next summer.

 

[goncaloc10]

A key bit of context is that three of our CBs (Maguire, Evans & Lindelof) are currently out of contract in the summer.

So whether we need Diomande specifically, we will definitely need to sign at least one CB next summer.

The think is Rúben might prefer a left footed CB (a backup to Martinez).

But if a right footed CB is searched, then… this guy’s an absolute beast.

I would say: prob the most promising / high ceiling potential Sporting player (the most capable to succeed at the highest EPL level).

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

But there is one - we can't spend fortunes on CBs every year while the rest of positions deteriote even further (looking at the midfield). On a player basis, your thoughts make sense but I think we'd be bonkers paying more than like 50 CB AGAIN this summer after having spent so much last summer as well. There have to be alternatives, lets not act as if only the best of the best is needed for the next step of the evolution. Wingbacks are needed, midfield should be looked at and the 10 positions we'll have to see whether the available players work. There is so much to do. We brought in Yoro as a future-project for the defense. Adding more to that account might be luxury we shouldn't affort to ourselves.

You and Benito both have valid points honestly and I’d understand if the club moved either way. There’s something to be said for forming a potentially elite backline of young star CB’s and ensuring we are never weak in that dept (assuming we’ll be a 3atb team under RA).

But we also without a doubt need more technicality in midfield as well as a top attacker (personally might be my biggest need).

 

[didz]

The think is Rúben might prefer a left footed CB (a backup to Martinez).

But if a right footed CB is searched, then… this guy’s an absolute beast.

I would say: prob the most promising / high ceiling potential Sporting player (the most capable to succeed at the highest EPL level).

We do have the ghost of Luke Shaw who could at least haunt Licha's position (kind of like a St. Juste to Debast). Meanwhile at Lille, while Yoro played in a pair, he usually found himself being the anchor of the defence in a CCB position, which is where De Ligt is also best. If anything it's the RCB position where we look most bare next term.