Hes a top talent of course, not Sancho level but potential is there to be a world class winger. The injuries are a concern, but some players just go through bad periods. He's had 2 massive injuries and then little niggles when coming back from them. Would be an excellent signing if we could get him if we can't do Sancho, but the risk with him would be the injuries which is an unknown. Easily 2nd choice for the attacking trio, as he's a 2 footed winger with huge pace and will create loads of chances. Less refined game than Sancho, but more explosive. All I know is that we need somebody, and we can't delay any more.
Ousmane Dembele
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Players more often have muscular or ligament injuries, it's a simple question of volume. There is a lot of players that have had multiple muscular injuries and came back every time among the famous players you have the likes of RVP, Robben, Giggs or Alba. Leg breaks are a bit more random, players like Cissé, Eduardo Silva or Coleman never really regain their previous levels.
I love a good turnaround story so would be all for this if we get him for a reasonable price. Barcelona looks like a playground from top management to the players, at least from the outside. Maybe it would help Dembele with a new environment and join a group of players around his own age that are more professional and hard working?
Which is again irrelevant. The question is about conditioning, it has little to do with play style and statistically United don't run at an exceptional intensity we are below average in the PL(iirc 12th), he was playing a more physical style in Germany and was perfectly fine. The question how players are prepared by the physical trainers during the week, how they are conditioned, how their physical condition is monitored.
Not sure on that. We haven't had a crazy amount of muscular injuries this year. Pogba was the main culprit of injuries and his were mostly ankle related, and one of those where he forces himself to come back quickly and prove people wrong and then re-injuring himself. Rashford got overplayed and injured literally due to overplaying, but not muscular. Dembele/Sancho or anyone like that would solve that. Martial missed a couple months at the start of the season, but probably took the proper time out and came back properly and has been in the best physical form of his life and hasn't had any injuries in ages (when it was looking like muscular injuries would be a recurring issue with him). Maguire played pretty much every minute this season, no injury. Wan Bissaka constantly fit. Shaw had a really surprisingly good fitness record under Ole, til he twisted his ankle recently (large part due to the way the corona restart was set up).
Dembele I get the feeling has been in an endless cycle of forcing a comeback too soon after a big injury, and then picking up a small one and then another. He was fit for a full year between 2018 and 2019 basically, and then got another big injury and its been again, niggle after niggle. He's young and just needs to be eased into it to get full fitness back, and then to get a rotation system between our 3 other attackers to keep them all fresh. Injuries will always happen, but we've done a good job in reducing them. Dembele has had some tumescent luck with them at Barca, but doesn't mean it would stay like that. He's good enough and talented enough to make it a worthwhile risk, as he can definitely be world class. A tier below Sancho IMO, who is just below Mbappe in terms of talents in the world, but a world class prospect none the less.
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Well it’s not irrelevant at all. He’ll be used either to help counter which puts greater load on his hamstrings or it will be a lot of stop start play. The demands of PL football are far greater than any other league week in week out if anything Dortmund is irrelevant now as he has since picked up the injuries.
To try to argue it is not a massive concern is a bit ridiculous. It’s like saying Michael Owen’s injures didn’t hamper him Dembele is a great talent but he’s had lots of hamstring and muscular injuries in a short space of time and that absolutely will take its toll on his explosive potential.
It’s not a risk worth taking.
The demands at United are also incredibly high and I think you’re being overly optimistic to suggest someone who has had as many muscular problems as Dembele is suddenly going to recover and flourish at United.
I have concerns about his injuries and actually don't want to see United involved but it has nothing to do with your arguments. It has nothing to do with the league you are playing in, it has little to do with the playing style of your team during games and everything to do with conditioning and whether a club has a decent medical staff or not.
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We’ve had our three best attackers out at points in the season due to injuries and mismanagement of said injuries or game time. Ole has a tendency to play the same XI over and over and we have seen since lockdown the effect on players.
If Dembele is coming in as a starter he will absolutely struggle and I’d put a lot of money on him injuring his hamstring again.
It is of absolutely no relevance that he has previously been fit. Once you get hamstring problems they are always notoriously difficult to manage hence his recurring injuries since.
Honestly it just feels like desperation for a silver lining rather than sensible squad planning. Of course a fully fit Dembele is a fantastic player but I cannot see him ever being back to his best now.
If Sancho isn't happening, Dembele, upamecano and a CM would be a great summer too.
Best young French and English talent who could grow together for years.
Best young French and English talent who could grow together for years.
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Yes it does, a more physical league means increased strain game by game.
If your team will use you for explosive counters that will factor in massively into your work load.
I agree how you are conditioned and managed plays a role but at some point especially with hamstrings players develop a weakness that is very very difficult to fix.
You can quote me on this in a few years but Dembele for me has had his moment and a move to the PL would probably be the worst place for him.
You certainly wouldn't pay a big money transfer fee for him but a loan with an option to buy is a different prospect. If he fails to impress then the liability is low and Sancho comes in to focus again next summer. If he impresses then it's a win-win.
But that's how he has been used in his previous clubs without injuries and how he hasn't been used/conditioned at Barcelona. You are actually showcasing why your point make little sense, Dembélé isn't a low intensity player but Barcelona are a low intensity team, they train for a different game. If anything, you should edge your bets on Dembélé being less injured if he was training the entire week with a team that has for goal to play a more intensive game instead of a team that only sometimes increases intensity during official games.
And as for your third sentence, he could simply do what Alba and Robben have done in their careers with the same issues, that's actually a fairly common outcome, both have had decent careers.
Dembele is crazy talented. If we can't get Sancho I would be happy with him. You never know how injuries can go.
That being said, I haven't watched him for a while. Have all these injuries taken away from how rapid he was, or is he still at the same level?
That being said, I haven't watched him for a while. Have all these injuries taken away from how rapid he was, or is he still at the same level?
He has been out for the entirety of this season, so we will have to see but based on last season, he was the same player, no difference.
I think there’s still a world class player in Dembele but the circumstances in which he moved to Barca just laid a very bad foundation for him to succeed. First the fee was insane and then Barca came out with crazy statements claiming he was better than Neymar. Barca is not the place it used to be for bringing in and protecting young players. Ole could work wonders for Dembele and clearly he has a knack of getting the best out of attacking players. Anything after Sancho is disappointing but getting let’s say von de Beek and a CB (Upamecano or Torres) for roughly the same price as Sancho, and then Dembele on loan would be a decent window.
Tough for a teenager to make it at barcelona. Especially under such tumultous circumstances, where he wasn't really their first choice and more of a "panic" buy to appease the fans after losing neymar in such a manner.
Interestingly, he is back in their CL squad and may have yet a part to play.
To be fair though, he is supremely talented and last season scored some spectacular goals and put in some great performances. The elephant in the room of course is his injury problems. Seems this year he has taken the time to address the issue properly, and via surgery.
I wouldn't be against a loan with OPTION to buy (not obligation) with or WITHOUT Sancho coming. I think it would give us great leverage in our future transfer negotiations.
If any club in the world has faith in youth, its Manchester United and OGS. I just feel Dembele would be right at home alongside Martial and Pogba.
By all accounts, it seems he has matured and distanced himself from the controversy earlier in his career. At age 23 this would naturally be expected.
Worth taking a punt just to see the fecking look on watzke and dorks faces when they realise their club is fecked for cashflow and need to call the bank for a loan.
Even Rivaldo thinks he might be a good gamble for us: https://www.goal.com/en/news/joker-...n-utd-if-sancho-bid/hlfleokw3xsk11w6kbol9l0yy
Interestingly, he is back in their CL squad and may have yet a part to play.
To be fair though, he is supremely talented and last season scored some spectacular goals and put in some great performances. The elephant in the room of course is his injury problems. Seems this year he has taken the time to address the issue properly, and via surgery.
I wouldn't be against a loan with OPTION to buy (not obligation) with or WITHOUT Sancho coming. I think it would give us great leverage in our future transfer negotiations.
If any club in the world has faith in youth, its Manchester United and OGS. I just feel Dembele would be right at home alongside Martial and Pogba.
By all accounts, it seems he has matured and distanced himself from the controversy earlier in his career. At age 23 this would naturally be expected.
Worth taking a punt just to see the fecking look on watzke and dorks faces when they realise their club is fecked for cashflow and need to call the bank for a loan.
Even Rivaldo thinks he might be a good gamble for us: https://www.goal.com/en/news/joker-...n-utd-if-sancho-bid/hlfleokw3xsk11w6kbol9l0yy
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And he’s suffering now lots of injuries...
You can edge your bets on him but I’m convinced we’re not in for him and I don’t see him being a success now. As I said time will tell.
He’s been out for an entire season with injuries yet we expect him to return to previous levels of performance?
Not many if any players have managed that least of all those who have reportedly had concerting attitudes.
Wouldn't bother if a fee is required, Loan with option to buy is the best alternative. He's in exactly the same boat as Umtiti, they are both world class when on form but both suffer from a lack of fitness which makes them inept throughout most of the season.
Read my post again, there is the answer to your question in it.
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I did and I still think you’re wrong.
For Dembele to come back and be operating at top levels after a year out you’d need a minor miracle.
I'm wrong about saying that we will have to see because he was out for the entirety of the season but that he was the same player last season? Are you serious?
Greenwood hasn't had injuries really and we only have 2 main attackers as he only just broke through to be a starter. Again, injuries will happen. Rashford was obviously overplayed. Martial had a 2 month hamstring right at the start of the season in August, and then nothing for the rest of the season. Nothing to do with being overplayed, just probably wasn't ready for the start of the season. Getting Dembele (or anyone) means we don't need to overplay the front 3. Thats the goal. Rashford wouldn't have been overplayed if Greenwood was more ready AND we had another top attacker who is versatile. You drop Dembele into the rotation, or Sancho, and then you have 4 players fighting for 3 positions, with Dan James and Ighalo as further backup for Carabao cup. Most of the year we had Rashford, Martial, a newly turned 18 year old and then Dan James who just came from the championship as our only attacking options. Pogba was injured and we had no backup which meant player quality was really low. Add Bruno, and we're less reliant on the 2 star players in attack we had. Pogba fit again aids that.
Add another top attacker in the rotation and Ole won't have to overplay, which means less injuries for all, better bench options, better competition for places leading to better performances. Its a no brainer to get in a versatile but mainly right sided player, who is a similar level to Martial/Rashford/Greenwood. Sancho is the dream, but looking like its not happening now so on to the next. Dembele is the next best option and still a brilliant option. The injuries are a risk, but in no way is 2 injuries before the age of 23 a sign of things to come and something irreparable. Needs to be managed back to full fitness, and just get back to normal. Giggs and Messi both had constant muscular injuries in their young days, eventually they got over them and barely ever got any injuries. Its not like its repeated knee injuries like Hargreaves.
Loads of players come back from big injuries to be top players. Especially when they're young. Thats not a true statement at all. He just turned 23, not 30. A big injury at 22 isn't something you give up on. He'll be fine.
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Yes because if he goes to United he’ll be entering a new more difficult and high pressure environment. He’ll be seen as the Sancho alternative and that in itself is going to be one hell of a situation if it arose.
I just don’t see it happening. Time will tell but I don’t see Dembele in a United shirt and I also don’t see him becoming a world class talent now. He’ll have an ok career.
Some players do not lots. How many players do you know who moved to a big club had a year out with injury then moved to a different one and suddenly became world class?
Which has nothing to do with what I said, so how can I be wrong about something I didn't talk about?
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I assumed as the surrounding discussion was about him coming to United you were believing it possible for him to perform for United at his previous level. If that assumption was incorrect I apologise
I literally told you that I was against that transfer.
I see him as Robben in 2009 while the prospect of signing him and getting what Bayern got from Robben is exciting, I would only be in favour of it if we were talking about a similar bargain, so basically no more than 40m. And even then I wouldn't put too much hope on it because I don't trust United with players injuries.
A fully fit Ousmsne suits United formation better than Sancho.Ousmane has that directness like Rashford and Greenwood. Sancho is more like Hazard, the team would needs to be built around him to work effectively.
On one hand, no one should be dumb enough to give a "free ride" on Dembele for a whole season with an option to buy, a player that struggles with muscular injuries but still has the talent to break into the starting 11 has to stay or be sold. Best you should get is a loan with an obligation to buy, otherwise it's like loaning a Ferrari hoping the guy won't return it wrecked a year later.
On the other hand we're run by idiots, so you might have a point there...
If they aren't considering cutting their losses, then this is a non-starter surely?
Don't think their wage structure is great either due to Messi, but yeah, they do have more pressing concerns.
It doesn’t tell the story of what I see when he plays though, I haven’t seen much discipline from him or a constant threat when I’ve watched. Stats only do so much.
The issue i have is that it isnt two injuries, if it was two big injuries then yeah, but he has had multiple in and outs the question is why. if it is a re straining of the same injury thats a problem, either because he is the kind of player to rush back to quickly (suggesting he can't communicate), or he is now more prone to repeat injuries.
If we go get him I would be unimpressed with paying any kind of fee, and it has to be an option to buy, or only obligation if he completes more than 15 games.
It actually tells the story, Dembélé makes the difference for Barcelona and is a constant threat, the same way he did it with other teams. Now he isn't a possession player and isn't tactically mature but we are talking about a young player, they rarely are.
I mean, if our options are Dembele or no one then yes, get him in on loan and if he’s not completely done by injuries we can talk about signing him at the end of the season. I don’t think it would make any sense to sign him on a perm now though.
I think I any deal will be a loan with an option to buy. Barca know his value is at it’s lowest point so they’ll take the risk that he actually shows up for us. Dembele could do well under Ole and has Martial and Pogba to help guide him.
This. Barcelona's board are basically morons in most of their decisions but I doubt even they could be enticed in a loan with option to buy, it makes no sense whatsoever. If he's to leave, it will either be an obligation to buy or a straight sale without a loan pending medical examination.
I'd disagree with this, if anything with the directness of others like Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, it helps greatly having the more measured approach from others like Sancho and Martial. Helps vary your game, makes it harder to predict, meshes everything better. Sancho compliments any 2 of Greenwood, Martial and Rashford really well because of this IMO. Dembele would be different but also someone who would work, though he's more of your typical winger rather than a forward always looking to score. Just need a creator to balance out the other 2 IMO
Dembele could be amazing at the right club. Barca, at this time, was not the right one for him, the system around Messi is somewhat stifling for an erratic risk taker like Dembele, but he was one of the most exciting young players in Europe while at Rennes and Dortmund, that ability is still there. If he is available for a reasonable price the potential upside is huge.
How old is he now? 22? He has got time on his side if his injuries are behind him and has some change in attitude to his game. He has similar potential to Sancho and can even be better due to his superior explosiveness. He needs to stay fit though.
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