Our squad now vs the squad Ole inherited

Defence and attack is much stronger than when he came here. GK is something I think is a difficult issue to resolve since De Gea is on a massive contract. Not sure who is to blame here, because I can somehow understand why he was given it at the time.

The way Ole handled the midfielders situation is a disgrace and enough to get him fired. Also shows he has absolutely no plan what to make of that team.

Overall I think in terms of personnel and transfers Ole did just OK. But it's the minimum which should be required considering how much he spent during 2,5 years.

Edit: I also believe the defensive line is vastly underrated, but that's because the team has no defensive structure to start with (hence defenders look shite on individual level).
 
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Chesterlestreet said:
It's obviously better and the next guy will obviously have less to complain about than his predecessors.

As for the defence, it's obviously better too - in terms of potential/individual quality (which is the only thing worth debating here - presumably nobody will deny that we've been shite this season). Varane alone is on a completely different level to anything we had when Ole took over. And the much maligned Maguire is a decent top level player at worst. It's not comparable at all, really.

A coach who knows his onions shouldn't struggle immensely to get some kind of tune out of this squad - he might even be able to build a very strong XI with the addition of a midfielder (and provided he figures out how to use Ronaldo in a way that doesn't hurt the collective).
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It really depends on who takes control next.
CM is given needs serious reconstruction.

the defence however if we have a more progressive manager that pushes high we need a new RB, new CB and new LB.

neither Maguire, AWB or Shaw fit in that picture.

Need new CF too and to sell a lot of players..
 
We still have massive issues with the squad unfortunately. First, our midfield is far below the required quality given that we can't seem to fit Pogba in, in a sustainable way. We likely have to bring in two high-quality midfielders to be able to compete for the big trophies. Second, some of our best players are very close to the end of their careers. Ronaldo, Cavani and Matic have to be replaced in the near future, leaving more gaps to fill. Third, our defense is not nearly as good as it should be, given what we have paid. Maguire and Wan-Bissaka are below the standard we need, Lindelof and Bailly are not good enough, and while I like Shaw he seems to have catastrophic games once in a while. Add to that Varane's concering injury record. Fourth, our wide forwards are a mixed bag. I think most people have lost patience with Martial, Rashford is good, but most effective on the counter and can still have steal stinkers, and Sancho has not really gotten started yet.

Much of the above is, of course, seen in the context of a really bad manager and some awful performances. With the right structure some of the problems will go away. But right now it is looking a bit bleak.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Being discussed in a few different threads so might as well start one here. My personal opinion is that the squad is better but not by much. And the next manager has a tonne of shit to sort out.

Ole held onto Jones, Lingard, Mata, Pereira and Bailly throughout his tenure. Are any of them an asset for the next manager? Or a headache for him to sort out?

Midfield: yeah, that’s a BIG problem . Pogba and VdB are probably on their bikes. What does the new manager do with McFred and Matic? I would keep Fred and, erm, that’s it…

Defence: are Maguire and AWB really good enough for a PL/CL winning team? Do they need to be upgraded?

Attack: we have the oldest strikers in the league. We’re probably going to need at least one new number 9 very soon. Arguably the most difficult signing to make a success of. Have Martial and Rashford improved and developed as footballers during Ole’s time in charge?

Goalkeeper: Is DDG good enough with the ball at his feet for a modern, progressive coach. Is he good enough, full stop? Best paid keeper in the world, by the way.


Discuss.
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Poor form is always a bad time to judge the squad. For me we have 2 issues that need sorting quickly, and that's DM and GK. Of course, other areas can always be improved, but I don't think they're a problem or priority.
 
There isn’t much difference to the squad that Jose left, especially when you factor in half a billion poured in.

Should’ve been a lot more wisely invested.

It’s a complete mishmash of styles and loads of players that need to be moved on, half of which would be really tough to move.

Our team is lopsided and would be better if our manager is someone like Simeone next rather than Ten Hag or Enrique.

That being said both this squad and what Moutinho left with some investment should be good enough for a title challenge under a good manager.

The most worrying part is that we didn’t really promote any young players under Ole. For all being said about United way this is one of the biggest stop gaps during his reign. We even bought some young players that were never given a chance. We have a team of players that are build to win now - in a sense this team is more Jose type than what he left us.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Being discussed in a few different threads so might as well start one here. My personal opinion is that the squad is better but not by much. And the next manager has a tonne of shit to sort out.

Ole held onto Jones, Lingard, Mata, Pereira and Bailly throughout his tenure. Are any of them an asset for the next manager? Or a headache for him to sort out?

Midfield: yeah, that’s a BIG problem . Pogba and VdB are probably on their bikes. What does the new manager do with McFred and Matic? I would keep Fred and, erm, that’s it…

Defence: are Maguire and AWB really good enough for a PL/CL winning team? Do they need to be upgraded?

Attack: we have the oldest strikers in the league. We’re probably going to need at least one new number 9 very soon. Arguably the most difficult signing to make a success of. Have Martial and Rashford improved and developed as footballers during Ole’s time in charge?

Goalkeeper: Is DDG good enough with the ball at his feet for a modern, progressive coach. Is he good enough, full stop? Best paid keeper in the world, by the way.


Discuss.
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Defence:

It feels as if this should be so much better than it is. If we can get Maguire back into acceptable form, keep Varane fit, there's no obvious reason that can't be a good pairing. They're not getting much protection so there's reason to think structural improvement can play a part. I'm not willing to write these signings off. AWB is a massive worry because we know that he categorically can only do 50% of the job of a modern full-back so that's an area of concern. Shaw should be doing better.

Midfield:

It's a mess because I think the idea was to get through this season and address in the summer with one or two. That's probably not going to change because a new manager will recognise the frailties. I don't think losing Pogba is a big issue and VDB has a fresh opportunity, it's not automatic that he's gone now. Like the OP I prefer Fred to McT if we are to lose another, but we need a couple of bodies with real quality.

Striker:
I think it's going to depend on what we can get out of Ronaldo going forward. If we lose him and Cavani then we'll have to spend big, no two ways about it. But this was always the case, I think we planned for that next summer before Ronaldo was bought because we knew Cavani had one season. In many ways Ronaldo doesn't alter that equation. If we keep him we need somebody to take the load off him and if he departs we have to go big on it.
 
On paper there's no doubt our squad is better than what we had when Ole came in. The trouble at the moment is, he was not extracting the best out of them. Personally, I don't think Maguire is good enough to be an automatic starter. He's a good squad player and should be used in rotation with others. He's a decent CB when he's on form, but nothing more, IMO. I'd get shot of Baily and keep Maguire, Varane, Lindelof and buy another first team CB.

I'd also get rid of Fred. Although I'm willing to give him a chance under new management and coaching staff, as he could be one of the players that was just severely underperforming and he's actually better than what he has shown so far. I'm skeptical on that though. Pogba is obviously gone but hopefully Donny will stay under new management. Obviously we need some new players in this position.

As for the attack, it's a tricky one. Cavani and Ronaldo will be gone soon. Martial is...done. Can't see him getting back to form. Maybe he will, but i don't see it. So we also need one or two players in that position in the next season or two. Greenwood, Rashford and Sancho are obviously very talented and I'm sure they will only improve. Greenwood and Sancho in particular.

De Gea appears to be getting back to some kind of form, but he's not perfect. Also not sold on Henderson. But I think we got more pressing issues elsewhere.
 
Maguire and Sancho will be fine with a new manager. Huge question marks over a number of squad players, not just about their overall quality but whether they'll really want to stay at a club where their careers are just wasting away (Telles, Dalot, Bailly, VdB, Martial, Mata, Henderson).
 
After defending Ole for so long it seems strange to put the boot in now. The squad is much better now but you wouldn’t know it by watching them.

I don’t have strong misgivings about any positions except CM where we are terrible. I think Rice or someone of his style and ability would make everyone else on the pitch look more like the players they actually are (and not the shadows of themselves we’ve seen recently).

AWB has developed his attacking qualities a bit and can get better. A good coach can get him and Sancho working together. Maguire has often been imperious - mobility is not his strong point but his other attributes are strong it’s just his recent form / fitness and the poor quality ahead of him in CM that is causing the problems. He has his detractors but I think he’s fine and will be amazed if the new boss replaces him; we’ll see.

The forward line will need refreshing in a year but the top teams tend to buy a new striker every two or three years anyway.

Again, if the manager can clear the players’ heads and reboot them, it’s only CM that is significantly sub-standard.
 
The squad is definitely in better shape now. It's horribly unbalanced and there a couple of positions with deficiencies but a good manager could sort that out relatively easily.

We've got good players who are low on confidence at the moment and way too easy to play against. A manager who can get them playing as part of a cohesive unit would have a lot of success with this team. I don't have any confidence in our board to find that man though.
 
I think many are forgetting what the squad Mourinho left behind was like.

It was a mishmash of ageing players like Valencia and Young, rejects from van Gaal's time like Rojo and Darmian, and mercenaries who simply didn't want to be here like Sanchez and Lukaku. Fellaini was a key player. The squad has transformed.
 
bosnian_red said:
Nah our squad is very good now. It is weird that we're prepared to throw away the full season though and not bother with a permanent manager now. We have a squad ready to win now, and there's so much to play for this season... yet we're just giving up on it. In November. Wild stuff.

Whoever does take charge will have an excellent squad to build around though. Varane is a world class CB. Maguire has been shit but is a good CB. Lindelof is very good depth, probably would make a decent starter next to Varane tbh. De Gea and Henderson are both decent keepers and not a problem but also not Allisson level. Shaw was brilliant last year, and we have Telles as depth. Wan Bissaka is a solid young RB, some weaknesses but a good coach should be making good use out of him. The midfield situation is a bit of a mess but Fred is a very good player and important for Brazil, but needs the right system. Van de Beek surely has more to show. Pogba will just leave in the summer and that situation will be sorted out. Our attack is littered with top class individuals who just need a coach to put it all together. Needs trimming, but there's a great future front 3 with Sancho, Rashford and Greenwood.

The biggest thing our team lacks is coaching. The board and seemingly some fans have been fooled into thinking a team with enough good players can get by without a good coach it's a load of shit. We need a good coach who has the right vision with what to do with the squad, and the ability to execute that. Just like not everybody can be a good player and no amount of work rate can make them good enough, the same applies to managers and coaches. There are levels to this. We need a coaching team of the right level.
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I agree with most of that but I disagree we have a squad capable of winning. True the only part of the team that’s really weak is CM but it is so critical to how the team works. A shite CM ruins the defence and the attack.

Take Keane and Scholes out of our classic midfield and we were half the team. We managed to win in 99 but the team was completely out of kilter with Becks in CM, Giggs at RW and Jesper coming in at LW. No way we would reach the final or win anything without our best CMs that year. And that’s with a team brimming with quality in every position.

There is no coach on earth who can get us back to the top with our current CM options. BUT with two good CM signings (or even one) that could change. Can we limp to January with the benefit of some better coaching and then buy the right player to get us challenging in the second half of the season? Maybe, just maybe. We could go on an amazing run, stranger things have happened, but not without improved CMs.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Being discussed in a few different threads so might as well start one here. My personal opinion is that the squad is better but not by much. And the next manager has a tonne of shit to sort out.

Ole held onto Jones, Lingard, Mata, Pereira and Bailly throughout his tenure. Are any of them an asset for the next manager? Or a headache for him to sort out?

Midfield: yeah, that’s a BIG problem . Pogba and VdB are probably on their bikes. What does the new manager do with McFred and Matic? I would keep Fred and, erm, that’s it…

Defence: are Maguire and AWB really good enough for a PL/CL winning team? Do they need to be upgraded?

Attack: we have the oldest strikers in the league. We’re probably going to need at least one new number 9 very soon. Arguably the most difficult signing to make a success of. Have Martial and Rashford improved and developed as footballers during Ole’s time in charge?

Goalkeeper: Is DDG good enough with the ball at his feet for a modern, progressive coach. Is he good enough, full stop? Best paid keeper in the world, by the way.


Discuss.
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DDG is a different kind of keeper to what city and pool seem to have. But a better version of what Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal have. I think the keeper position depends on what the new manager wants. If he wants a sweeper/keeper who’ll allow us to play out from the back then DDG will need replacing, if he wants a genuinely good goalkeeper who stops goals then we’re fine.

Maguire is fine. Yes, he’s been shit this season, with absolutely no disagreement from me, but underneath there’s a solid defender in there with the right coach, same with Shaw. Is Maguire a good partner for Varane? That I’m not so sure of, but a new manager who coaches the defence properly may be able to fashion a very good central defensive partnership out of the two of them. AwB is a write off though. Love his slide tackles but every other aspect of his game is trash, there’a no styling that out.

Midfield? I like 4231 and think it’s the way forward for us. But the new manager is going to have to be a miracle worker to make something out of the options we have there. If we’re counting McTom, Fred, VdB & Pogba as our options for there, I really don’t see a viable partnership amongst any of them. I don’t want to see us sign a water carrier like an Ndidi, I’d rather have two players who are capable of a bit of everything in there. Any individual we sign is not going to be capable of masking the shortfalls of any of those other midfielders I’ve listed. We can keep a couple as rotation, but we need two new players for there.

Rashford, Bruno, Sancho, Greenwood are all top quality players. Rashford has been injured for 18 months and rushed back too early repeatedly, but there’s a player in there. We don’t need to focus on recruitment in this area too much for now. The new manager really needs to focus on getting these 4 to actually put some work in when we don’t have the ball. All 4 are lazy as feck, that’s fixable in my opinion.

Cavani and Ronaldo are both top quality strikers. Ronaldo may not contribute too much defensively, but gets you goals. Cavani gives you workload and probably scores almost as many goals. He still has a few years left in him and could be persuaded to stay if the new manager is the right one and things are looking good. If not, then we need a new striker in the summer.

TLDR: we need a new RB, two central midfielders and maybe a striker.
 
BuzzKillington said:
DDG is a different kind of keeper to what city and pool seem to have. But a better version of what Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal have. I think the keeper position depends on what the new manager wants. If he wants a sweeper/keeper who’ll allow us to play out from the back then DDG will need replacing, if he wants a genuinely good goalkeeper who stops goals then we’re fine.

Maguire is fine. Yes, he’s been shit this season, with absolutely no disagreement from me, but underneath there’s a solid defender in there with the right coach, same with Shaw. Is Maguire a good partner for Varane? That I’m not so sure of, but a new manager who coaches the defence properly may be able to fashion a very good central defensive partnership out of the two of them. AwB is a write off though. Love his slide tackles but every other aspect of his game is trash, there’a no styling that out.

Midfield? I like 4231 and think it’s the way forward for us. But the new manager is going to have to be a miracle worker to make something out of the options we have there. If we’re counting McTom, Fred, VdB & Pogba as our options for there, I really don’t see a viable partnership amongst any of them. I don’t want to see us sign a water carrier like an Ndidi, I’d rather have two players who are capable of a bit of everything in there. Any individual we sign is not going to be capable of masking the shortfalls of any of those other midfielders I’ve listed. We can keep a couple as rotation, but we need two new players for there.

Rashford, Bruno, Sancho, Greenwood are all top quality players. Rashford has been injured for 18 months and rushed back too early repeatedly, but there’s a player in there. We don’t need to focus on recruitment in this area too much for now. The new manager really needs to focus on getting these 4 to actually put some work in when we don’t have the ball. All 4 are lazy as feck, that’s fixable in my opinion.

Cavani and Ronaldo are both top quality strikers. Ronaldo may not contribute too much defensively, but gets you goals. Cavani gives you workload and probably scores almost as many goals. He still has a few years left in him and could be persuaded to stay if the new manager is the right one and things are looking good. If not, then we need a new striker in the summer.

TLDR: we need a new RB, two central midfielders and maybe a striker.
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I agree mostly. I think shape wise in a back 4 AWB could be instructed to slide across into a back 3 as shaw goes forward. Hed be an asset in one on ones and with his recovery pace helps Maguire. You dont have to play with two wing backs. But if we do it would be good to have someone better than Dalot for competition on places/tactical flexibilty. AWB had 8 goal contributions last season so i think theres exaggeration about him being the worst player ever going forward and I think thats because TAA is a yardstick everyone wants to use. Its not usual for a right back to get that many assists.

Central midfield is a big issue. Need two new parts in there no questions.

Ronaldo and Cavani have superb quality in there but are very much box strikers and are not long term here.
 
Defence is better on paper, attack is better, midfield is worse.

The mentality of most of them is still pathetic.
 
The squad is substantially improved, no question about it. But the squad has been mismanaged, of which there is also question.
 
He was getting criticism for not being able to challenge for title and when he inherited, we were talking about finishing in top 4 and that used to be a task.

I think it's pretty clear that he's left behind a very competitive squad. Obviously a few positions need upgrade, but compared to what he inherited, we've come leaps and bounds
 
def think it depends on who comes in. If ten hag comes in im not sure of our current group who he would want. Would assume he would be fine with the overall attack. Would assume for midfield pogba prob is already gone, but think he would appreciate vdb. Mcfred not so much. Backline could need a complete rehaul, which would be crazy considering money spent. Cant imagine maguire/awb being anywhere close to what he wants. Varane prob would be fine. Shaw not so sure about
 
Ole's first match day squad (missing Valencia, Smalling, Lukaku, Sanchez)

De Gea, Young, Lindelof, Jones, Shaw, Matic, Herrera, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Lingard. Romero, Bailly, Dalot, Fred, Andreas, Fellaini, Mata

Ole's last match day squad (missing Varane, Pogba, Greenwood, Cavani)

De Gea, AWB, Lindelof, Maguire, Shaw, Matic, McTominay, Bruno, Sancho, Rashford, Ronaldo. Heaton, Bailly, Dalot, Telles, Fred, VDB, Lingard, Mata, Martial

I mean if you don't think the squad is better now then I don't know what to say.

Whether there's work still to do or not is another question entirely
 
I like this thread a lot, as I have no idea where all the talk about United having a squad capable of challenging comes from.

Maybe (a big maybe) if all the players were at their peaks, but Ronaldo is 37, Cavani is 34, Matic turning 34 and well past it, De Gea past it, Pogba extremely inconsistent and has been for 5+ years.

Then you have players who are overrated by United fans due to being academy products such as Rashford and Greenwood.

What does that leave us with in terms of players of the necessary quality? Bruno, Shaw and Varane pretty much.
 
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Our defence is in much better condition - we're poor at the back this season because we're terribly organised as a team, and because most of our good defenders have been run into the ground, combined with Ole trying to play a more progressive game leaving them more exposed.

Our attack is in much better condition - an overweight Lukaku who didn't want to be here vs a fit Ronaldo and Cavani, more depth with Sancho, Bruno being one of the most productive players in the league, etc.

We have the same goalkeeper, who unfortunately isn't the superhuman saving machine he used to be. Henderson looked really positive last season so hopefully he can get a run under a new manager.

The one place we're probably a bit worse off is midfield - we've lost Herrera, Matic has aged, Fred and McT are better now than they were but still aren't at the required level, and Pogba still isn't a central midfielder.
 
hobbers said:
Before you compare squads you probably have to factor in that...

Mata, Grant, Cavani, Pogba, Lingard, Bailly, Martial, Jones, Henderson, Dalot and Matic all may be either retiring, leaving, or trying to leave, before next season.

Largely as a result of criminal squad mismanagement.
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VdB very much considering his options too (understandably)
 
People want to credit Ole with putting together a potentially title winning squad when it hasn't won anything, hasn't been in a title race, hasn't strung together more than 2+ wins more than once in 2021, has a dire CL record, bottled a Europa Final, and is sat in 8th and potentially 15 points off the top by next week. Just because something looks great on paper it doesn't mean it is, this squad has HUGE question marks over its mental strength and ability to sustain quality over an extended period.
 
I do not think we keep pogba because he is not really a central midfielder. We should keep Donny.
Rashford needs to learn to defend and put on that upper body mass.
Henderson needs to go on loan to get better by next season. Look at Arsenals goalkeeper Ramsdale making excellent saves. De Gea needs a mental break so needs to be subbed at half time if another game goes poorly.
 
hobbers said:
Before you compare squads you probably have to factor in that...

Mata, Grant, Cavani, Pogba, Lingard, Bailly, Martial, Jones, Henderson, Dalot and Matic all may be either retiring, leaving, or trying to leave, before next season.

Largely as a result of criminal squad mismanagement.
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All those players are garbage except Henderson which will get his go when DDG goes and Cavani which is on his last legs anyway.
 
Squad is better now, I don't think anyone can really argue about it. You can say you would expect that having spent as much money as we did but I think he did an okay job clearing some of the deadwood and signed some really exciting and promising players who I am sure would thrive under better coaching. It genuinely feels like our signings have been alright and improved the team, something we can't really say about Ole's predecessors.
 
Most of the players are making a living off past reputation and price tag.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Being discussed in a few different threads so might as well start one here. My personal opinion is that the squad is better but not by much. And the next manager has a tonne of shit to sort out.

Ole held onto Jones, Lingard, Mata, Pereira and Bailly throughout his tenure. Are any of them an asset for the next manager? Or a headache for him to sort out?

Midfield: yeah, that’s a BIG problem . Pogba and VdB are probably on their bikes. What does the new manager do with McFred and Matic? I would keep Fred and, erm, that’s it…

Defence: are Maguire and AWB really good enough for a PL/CL winning team? Do they need to be upgraded?

Attack: we have the oldest strikers in the league. We’re probably going to need at least one new number 9 very soon. Arguably the most difficult signing to make a success of. Have Martial and Rashford improved and developed as footballers during Ole’s time in charge?

Goalkeeper: Is DDG good enough with the ball at his feet for a modern, progressive coach. Is he good enough, full stop? Best paid keeper in the world, by the way.


Discuss.
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Outside of midfield, the squad is in fine shape. Pogba's gone sure - but VDB will be a star when he gets a kick. Fred and McTominay will be kept, and frankly thats about it. Need two top class players in there. Defence is fine. Don't look at the players - the pressing higher up the pitch has been none existent and AWB and Maguire have been put in a shit position every game as a result - the guys ahead of them haven't put pressure on the ball and they've had to step up and out of position to try and do so leading to them being exposed. Adequate/low-prem tier coaching will sort that - our coaching has been utterly atrocious. I wouldn't worry yet about the future no 9 issue - yes - we will need one. But for now we're ok until we find who we want.
Players to go - Jones, Lingard, Pereira, Bailly, Matic.
We have the core of a good squad. Its a million miles better than the one he inherited, with an out of shape Lukaku, Ashley Young and Darmian as full backs, Dalot on the wing with Lingard as a no 10. Miles better. We've a good enough squad to win the league.
 
Ricardo de la Vega said:
We've a good enough squad to win the league.
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In 2021 we've only won 2 or more games in a row once, it is not possible to win the league with consistency like that. We've just been battered by Liverpool, City, Watford and Leicester...we''re miles off. We have a squad of players constantly being told they're amazing without ever having to prove it.
 
hobbers said:
Before you compare squads you probably have to factor in that...

Mata, Grant, Cavani, Pogba, Lingard, Bailly, Martial, Jones, Henderson, Dalot and Matic all may be either retiring, leaving, or trying to leave, before next season.

Largely as a result of criminal squad mismanagement.
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A lot of them should have been shipped out a while ago. Especially Matic Jones, Mata, Grant, Lingard and Bially.
 
Ixion said:
In 2021 we've only won 2 or more games in a row once, it is not possible to win the league with consistency like that. We've just been battered by Liverpool, City, Watford and Leicester...we''re miles off. We have a squad of players constantly being told they're amazing without ever having to prove it.
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Good enough squad. No one said the manager was. Look at Chelsea today with Tuchel. We have the talent in the squad to challenge.
 
Cassidy said:
Good enough squad. No one said the manager was. Look at Chelsea today with Tuchel. We have the talent in the squad to challenge.
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I don't think Chelsea, Liverpool or City would be banging down our door to take our defense or midfield off our hands.
 
Ixion said:
I don't think Chelsea, Liverpool or City would be banging down our door to take our defense or midfield off our hands.
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I didnt say they would. Yet the point still stands.
 
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