Our priorities are all wrong

United are short at least 2 forward line players. Need a player who can player center forward and wide. There are better options from a wide position than there are central, at least for this summer window.

The team isn't going to be turned over in one window, that's fantasy. But it will be supplemented and refreshed for sure. So an increase in goals won't only be from players/player quality, but also the way you play and execute, which helps develop and increase goals for.

While I agree with the overall point that United have been short of goals for many years, having a prolific center forward isn't the sure fire way going forward. You need to manufacture goals as a team. Set pieces should be 10+ goals per season. Goals from all over the pitch. If you're going to score 76+ goals (two goals per game average) in the league, you're gonna have to have goal threats from each level of the pitch - defense, midfield, forward.

Creating chances and scoring goals continues to be a total team effort, just like defending as an entire unit. So placing the goal scoring burden on only one or two players (e.g. Ronaldo and Bruno), isn't going to cut it. It has to be all players contributing whoever plays a forward, a couple from midfield, and then a joint effort from the backline on set pieces.

The priorities are correct, just that it'll have to be spread across multiple windows and that was always going to happen.
 
If we could fix every hole in the squad in a single summer transfer window we would. But we can't, so we won't. Address the deepest holes now.

It's as clear as day that we need to address our holes in midfield before as the top squad rebuild priority. I'd like to see us upgrade our fullbacks and bring in a proper CF to support Ronaldo, but unless we address our midfield our dream of becoming a top four side again will remain unrealized.
 
Irwin99 said:
Not being mean or hyper critical about them but there are serious question marks about those two. Elanga has done very well and at least plays with some energy/enthusiasm but I wonder about his overall quality. Not even going to comment where Rashford is concerned as it's all been said but let's just hope ten Hag gets him back on track.

I feel It's kind of hard to put a priority on this United side but conceding 4 to the likes of Brighton and Watford, and the thrashings against Liverpool and City shouldn't happen again. ten Hag had a very good defensive record at Ajax and i'd be somewhat surprised if he doesn't target the defence and the midfield before the attacking positions, even though they're in dire need of sorting out too.
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I agree, hence why I put them at the bottom, but if, and it's a big if, Rashford can find his form of two seasons back, we'll have four great wingers options to choose from, assuming the striker we bring in (if we do) can play as a wide forward too.

As for your second paragraph, upgrading our midfield with players who can keep the ball should in turn help our defence, simply because the more you have the ball, the harder it is for your opponent to score. This is what we see with the current City and Liverpool teams. At the moment, we struggle to dominate game, which as a result, means we have to do more defending to do. To add to that, our pressing and structural play is all over the place, which is the reason why we concede so much.

Midfield, attack and defence is the order in which I'd strengthen, although I think we could do all three if we're clever with our signings.
 
matherto said:
Put Prime Messi, Suarez and Ronaldo at the head of this team and we still miss out on top 4.
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We've had plenty of games where we've been in the final third often and struggle to find that something special to find a goal. Messi, Suarez and Ronaldo all had/have the ability to do this.

Currently we have Sancho who is not a natural goalscorer, a massively out of form Rashford, a inexpericned Elanga and a Ronaldo who is now more reliant on service rather than individual brilliance.
 
We've left ourselves with too much to do.

It is important to note though just how bad our attack is both in terms of depth and quality. Assuming Martial leaves, at the start of next season we'll be left with just 3 senior attackers - Ronaldo, Sancho and Rashford. We're supplementing lack of options and quality with a bunch of kids like Elanga and Amad. Considering you're meant to aim for 2 senior pros per position we're way way off the necessary standard meant for an elite club.

Realistically, we need 2 attackers, 2 midfielders and 2 defenders. I'm not sure where the compromise should be made because we won't be given the budget for 6 new players. I'd guess we'll probably end up with 1 attacker, 2 midfielders and 1 defender.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
I agree, hence why I put them at the bottom, but if, and it's a big if, Rashford can find his form of two seasons back, we'll have four great wingers options to choose from, assuming the striker we bring in (if we do) can play as a wide forward too.

As for your second paragraph, upgrading our midfield with players who can keep the ball should in turn help our defence, simply because the more you have the ball, the harder it is for your opponent to score. This is what we see with the current City and Liverpool teams. At the moment, we struggle to dominate game, which as a result, means we have to do more defending to do. To add to that, our pressing and structural play is all over the place, which is the reason why we concede so much.

Midfield, attack and defence is the order in which I'd strengthen, although I think we could do all three if we're clever with our signings.
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EtH and van der Gaag will implement a much, much better style and tactical approach to the team, better than it was under the previous managers but at least since Mourinho and Ole (so about 4+ years). Just that they have to work with the players at their disposal, as culling of the squad will continue for the better part of at least 3 years.

There is validation that the current squad has players that finished Top 4 and increased their table position consecutive seasons, meaning there is talent. But good (talent) isn't good enough, as EtH said yesterday many times.

More quality players will have to be brought it, but they also really need to have personalities that fit with what EtH is trying to develop.
 
Dominos said:
We've left ourselves with too much to do.

It is important to note though just how bad our attack is both in terms of depth and quality. Assuming Martial leaves, at the start of next season we'll be left with just 3 senior attackers - Ronaldo, Sancho and Rashford. We're supplementing lack of options and quality with a bunch of kids like Elanga and Amad. Considering you're meant to aim for 2 senior pros per position we're way way off the necessary standard meant for an elite club.

Realistically, we need 2 attackers, 2 midfielders and 2 defenders. I'm not sure where the compromise should be made because we won't be given the budget for 6 new players. I'd guess we'll probably end up with 1 attacker, 2 midfielders and 1 defender.
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And having too much to do is where the signings of like 3 or 4 years ago have bitten the club in the balls. Can't miss on so many players or not see them develop properly. If they are injured (e.g. Martial and at times Rashford), knowing your approach is heavily dependent on them, then you're fecked. United got fecked this year and little bit the year before when Martial was out.

Martial's injuries and then Greenwood totally destroyed the team makeup from a forward POV. Then with Rashford's crater like dip and Cavani's injuries, the previous season was the outcome. Elanga and Sancho couldn't do it yet, with Rashford doing nothing more than something, no recognized CF backup to Ronaldo who was fit, then a complete hit or miss Bruno, nobody else contributes.
 
Tavern in the town said:
I think it’s obvious our squad is full of holes. It’s well documented how we’re weak at full back, in midfield and pretty much every area. However it’s really strange to me to see us continually linked with the likes of Timber, Torres and just about any other player that isn’t an attacker.

Firepower is king. There’s a reason we all think Spurs will finish above us this season and it’s because Conte + Kane + Son = wins. Attackers are everything in this league. Fergie knew it - quality strikers on the pitch, quality strikers on the bench. That’s how you pick up points, that’s how you paper over cracks.

I read a stat on Twitter about how there’s only been one occasion in Premier League history in which a team has two players scoring more than 15 non penalty league goals and missed out on a CL spot (Spurs under Jose). That’s how we make top 4 and stay there. Sign a striker and a winger who’ll bag 40 goals between them. Worry about the rest later. Klopp knew it - all their big signings were in the front 6 positions, only once that was sorted did they spend 10m+ on defensive players.

Since Fergie retired we’ve never scored 80 goals in the league. We’ve scored 70 goals once! That’s criminal. It’s no surprise we’ve flitted in and out of the top 4 despite having many seasons of decent defensive records.

Of course to win the league we’ll have to strengthen everywhere. But priority one, two and three should be getting some fecking goals in this team.
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Prey do tell how strikers would have stopped Brighton from rag dolling us. If we had a competent midfield we wouldn't be getting cut open on a regular basis. Also we would be able to create more chances for the strikers we already have.
 
Brighton put four past us and who knows it could even have been a fecking cricket score. Around that time, Liverpool also took us to the cleaners, while Arsenal, with a pathetic excuse for an Arsenal team, managed three. We have shipped goals and the 'defense' has looked more porous than it ever did, particularly under Mourinho and Van Gaal. The defence is abysmal and the likes of Maguire don't deserve to be wearing the shirt.

Even if we had the forwards we want, we still wouldn't have got much from those games with McTominay failing to screen the defense and Maguire and Lindelof being generally hopeless. It wouldn't have made that much difference at all.

If we are to turn things around, we need a stable defence and a midfield pivot worthy of the name. Let's hope that Ten Hag is a good judge of a player and will root out the mediocrity at the back. Always best to build from the back and work on providing a solid foundation.

I would rather we shore things up at the back and in midfield first and foremost. That has to be the primary concern. Scott McTominay should not be starting games for us; he's just nowhere near the standard. We have to get rid of that dross and build a tenacious side. The goals may be hard to come by but we have to prioritize the basics like attitude and organization.
 
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edcunited1878 said:
And having too much to do is where the signings of like 3 or 4 years ago have bitten the club in the balls. Can't miss on so many players or not see them develop properly. If they are injured (e.g. Martial and at times Rashford), knowing your approach is heavily dependent on them, then you're fecked. United got fecked this year and little bit the year before when Martial was out.

Martial's injuries and then Greenwood totally destroyed the team makeup from a forward POV. Then with Rashford's crater like dip and Cavani's injuries, the previous season was the outcome. Elanga and Sancho couldn't do it yet, with Rashford doing nothing more than something, no recognized CF backup to Ronaldo who was fit, then a complete hit or miss Bruno, nobody else contributes.
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Amazing to think at the start of the season how highly our attack was rated. Ronaldo, Cavani, Martial, Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho, Lingard, Mata for just 3 positions - we ended up scoring just 57 goals. Everyone but Ronaldo has had pretty much the worst season possible, and most have left/are leaving.
 
I do get what the OP is saying, and agree to a degree but I think we're too weak to achieve top 4 even if we brought in the attacking players that could score those goals.

I don't think there's two signings out there (that are remotely available) who could get us 40 goals with the team much the same as it is.

Where I do agree somewhat is that if we're to spend big on a particular player or two, then their position would be better being in attack. However, we would still definitely need to improve the obvious areas of weakness, even if we don't go as big in those areas for a year or two.
 
I guess if we were being wildly optimistic we could hope that EtH could get a functional midfield out of McFred, Bruno, VdB, Garner, Mejbri etc. Maybe then a top striker could be enough to get us top 4.

There's zero evidence, from years of failure, to support it though.
 
Tavern in the town said:
I think it’s obvious our squad is full of holes. It’s well documented how we’re weak at full back, in midfield and pretty much every area. However it’s really strange to me to see us continually linked with the likes of Timber, Torres and just about any other player that isn’t an attacker.

Firepower is king. There’s a reason we all think Spurs will finish above us this season and it’s because Conte + Kane + Son = wins. Attackers are everything in this league. Fergie knew it - quality strikers on the pitch, quality strikers on the bench. That’s how you pick up points, that’s how you paper over cracks.

I read a stat on Twitter about how there’s only been one occasion in Premier League history in which a team has two players scoring more than 15 non penalty league goals and missed out on a CL spot (Spurs under Jose). That’s how we make top 4 and stay there. Sign a striker and a winger who’ll bag 40 goals between them. Worry about the rest later. Klopp knew it - all their big signings were in the front 6 positions, only once that was sorted did they spend 10m+ on defensive players.

Since Fergie retired we’ve never scored 80 goals in the league. We’ve scored 70 goals once! That’s criminal. It’s no surprise we’ve flitted in and out of the top 4 despite having many seasons of decent defensive records.

Of course to win the league we’ll have to strengthen everywhere. But priority one, two and three should be getting some fecking goals in this team.
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Brilliant post. I’ve been saying it for ages, Firminho > Mane > Salah > VvD

We’ve done the ‘sort the defence’ window with AWB & Maguire, it doesn’t work like that yet people would have us patch each department which in effect makes no department better enough. Build from the front.
 
The same Liverpool who were utterly incompetent before they signed van dijk and the same Liverpool who barely made top 4 last season when van dijk missed the majority of the season but got over 90 points, 2 trophies and the final of another this season.

Seems legit.
 
sunama said:
Agreed 100%.
There is a reason why the most expensive players on the planet tend to be Attacking Midfielders or Strikers.
Currently, the most expensive player is Neymar, who also happens to be a striker.
I actually agree with the OP. Buy the best attacker who'll join and he will at least keep us in the top 4, while we strengthen in other areas.

Fergie knew this.
I still remember when Andy Cole was the top scorer for Newcastle. He then started the new season in exactly the same form (ie. top scorer in the league). Mid season, Fergie went and bought Andy Cole for the British Transfer record, at the time. There was no transfer window in the mid 90s - a club could buy a player at any time.
Fergie also went for Shearer - offered a world record fee, which was declined.
Fergie also got RvP as a band aid for an ageing squad, to win the league.

BUT in saying all of the above, we have a history of consistently making decent players, crap.
We buy a player. He plays well. Exceptionally well. A few weeks/months pass. And that player then turns to crap.
This pattern is consistent and we need to find a way of stopping this, otherwise, it won't matter who we buy in - that player will need replacing after a single season.
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How us signing Andy Cole even remotely comparable to the situation we currently find ourselves in? You could put benzema and lewandowski up top in this team and it wouldn't get a sniff because you have a disfunctional midfield behind them, just as we've seen with Ronaldo all season.

We signed Cole when we had Keane, scholes and butt playing on a weekly basis for us. What a laughable comparison.
 
Tavern in the town said:
I think it’s obvious our squad is full of holes. It’s well documented how we’re weak at full back, in midfield and pretty much every area. However it’s really strange to me to see us continually linked with the likes of Timber, Torres and just about any other player that isn’t an attacker.

Firepower is king. There’s a reason we all think Spurs will finish above us this season and it’s because Conte + Kane + Son = wins. Attackers are everything in this league. Fergie knew it - quality strikers on the pitch, quality strikers on the bench. That’s how you pick up points, that’s how you paper over cracks.

I read a stat on Twitter about how there’s only been one occasion in Premier League history in which a team has two players scoring more than 15 non penalty league goals and missed out on a CL spot (Spurs under Jose). That’s how we make top 4 and stay there. Sign a striker and a winger who’ll bag 40 goals between them. Worry about the rest later. Klopp knew it - all their big signings were in the front 6 positions, only once that was sorted did they spend 10m+ on defensive players.

Since Fergie retired we’ve never scored 80 goals in the league. We’ve scored 70 goals once! That’s criminal. It’s no surprise we’ve flitted in and out of the top 4 despite having many seasons of decent defensive records.

Of course to win the league we’ll have to strengthen everywhere. But priority one, two and three should be getting some fecking goals in this team.
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You do realize getting goals comes from the ground up right? If you can’t form a solid defensive structure you’ll struggle to retain possession and territory. If you can’t gain territory on the opposition, you wont have many chance creation opportunities. If you can’t create chances, your strikers won’t score goals. This isn’t a Chelsea situation where we have a singular black hole on the forward line.
 
Tyrion said:
The current league winners barely have forwards and no dedicated goal scorers. Just about 10 midfielders. Chelsea finished third with two flops as strikers.
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Yep. People need to stop living in 1999 where strikers that score is the answer to problems. Modern football is much more about how good you are in/out of possession than it is pure finishing in the box.
 
People also forget that our midfield is literally mid table and then bring up Liverpool from a few years ago yet then fail to mention it was the reason they still fell behind City and there CM now is class.

Yes we are better than we have shown but we literally have no CDM or any decent CM’s no decent RB and our CB captain and LB’s have been woeful
 
Since we have limited funds, priorities should be DM>CB/FB>FW

We need to rebuild a spine first, filling all the holes in between midfield/defence and forming a structure in the team, taking back control, before we could start attacking and scoring more goals.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Since we have limited funds, priorities should be DM>CB/FB>FW

We need to rebuild a spine first, filling all the holes in between midfield/defence and forming a structure in the team, taking back control, before we could start attacking and scoring more goals.
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We also need a CM. A DM is more important but ETH likes attacking football with the midfield being creative and we don’t have anyone for that
 
Sounds like last window where we added Ronaldo and Sancho and learnt the hard way functionality around the pitch is just as important as firepower signings. That canyonwide hole in our midfield is the immediate leak that needs patching.

Moreover we're actually looking for a versatile attacker so this premise isn't true to begin with. Either way we're not that good so we can start building from anywhere really.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Yeh, I mean our top priority should be CM/DM.
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I think we need both urgently. Fred is ok and is perfect for certain games but he is not a CM that is good enough to control the game or pick passes.
We have so many holes in our side it’s depressing
 
432JuanMata said:
I think we need both urgently. Fred is ok and is perfect for certain games but he is not a CM that is good enough to control the game or pick passes.
We have so many holes in our side it’s depressing
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Well Pogba and Matic will be leaving so we will need 2 replacement anyway. I just worry we will drag it too long in summer and missed all the good options.
 
Tavern in the town said:
I think it’s obvious our squad is full of holes. It’s well documented how we’re weak at full back, in midfield and pretty much every area. However it’s really strange to me to see us continually linked with the likes of Timber, Torres and just about any other player that isn’t an attacker.

Firepower is king. There’s a reason we all think Spurs will finish above us this season and it’s because Conte + Kane + Son = wins. Attackers are everything in this league. Fergie knew it - quality strikers on the pitch, quality strikers on the bench. That’s how you pick up points, that’s how you paper over cracks.

I read a stat on Twitter about how there’s only been one occasion in Premier League history in which a team has two players scoring more than 15 non penalty league goals and missed out on a CL spot (Spurs under Jose). That’s how we make top 4 and stay there. Sign a striker and a winger who’ll bag 40 goals between them. Worry about the rest later. Klopp knew it - all their big signings were in the front 6 positions, only once that was sorted did they spend 10m+ on defensive players.

Since Fergie retired we’ve never scored 80 goals in the league. We’ve scored 70 goals once! That’s criminal. It’s no surprise we’ve flitted in and out of the top 4 despite having many seasons of decent defensive records.

Of course to win the league we’ll have to strengthen everywhere. But priority one, two and three should be getting some fecking goals in this team.
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That's a very interesting post...food for thought.
 
flappyjay said:
Prey do tell how strikers would have stopped Brighton from rag dolling us. If we had a competent midfield we wouldn't be getting cut open on a regular basis. Also we would be able to create more chances for the strikers we already have.
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Fair point: Brighton outplayed us completely. They were tactically vastly better and wanted to win more than our guys did, put simply. But the OP does have something important to say- he/she is surely right about Fergie's priorities, which depended heavily on firepower. Also, the ability to score goals does tend to overide other defects in a team. I remember Fergie saying something to the effect that 'we'll always score more than they do', I think it was in that last season, when we won the premier league. I don't think we can just rely on an aging Ronaldo, however well he plays sometimes. Without another deadly attacker who can beat a player and create a chance from nothing, we're fecked. Liverpool have it, City have it. Of course we need a better team, and I guess ETH's emphasis is all about the TEAM (look at your case of Brighton- that's essentially what they had over us), but the point about needing goals is a crucial one, nonetheless.
 
During SAF time, it used to be we can rely solely on good forward players to win us titles.

But Klopp and Pep had raised the bar so high that if you don't have a strong midfield and defence that can hold and play the balls dominating opposition you got no chance in modern day football.

The points required to win EPL now can be as high as more than 100 points.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
I agree, hence why I put them at the bottom, but if, and it's a big if, Rashford can find his form of two seasons back, we'll have four great wingers options to choose from, assuming the striker we bring in (if we do) can play as a wide forward too.

As for your second paragraph, upgrading our midfield with players who can keep the ball should in turn help our defence, simply because the more you have the ball, the harder it is for your opponent to score. This is what we see with the current City and Liverpool teams. At the moment, we struggle to dominate game, which as a result, means we have to do more defending to do. To add to that, our pressing and structural play is all over the place, which is the reason why we concede so much.

Midfield, attack and defence is the order in which I'd strengthen, although I think we could do all three if we're clever with our signings.
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Good point. I've said this season that, although they're not blameless and have been utter crap at times, our centre backs get little help from the full backs and especially the midfield where literally any oppo player can seeming glide through with ease. Having a midfield that can keep possession would benefit us massively.

It's also weird to think we have the first choice centre backs for England, Sweden and France and yet statistically the worst United defence in the premier league era. Hopefully ten Hag can improve them.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
During SAF time, it used to be we can rely solely on good forward players to win us titles.

But Klopp and Pep had raised the bar so high that if you don't have a strong midfield and defence that can hold and play the balls dominating opposition you got no chance in modern day football.

The points required to win EPL now can be as high as more than 100 points.
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Only in the last few years we had weak midfield. For most of the PL era we had Keane + Ince, Scholes + Keane, Scholes + Carrick. In last 2-3 seasons it was bit weak as Scholes was close to retirement, Carrick's poor form.
 
Irwin99 said:
Good point. I've said this season that, although they're not blameless and have been utter crap at times, our centre backs get little help from the full backs and especially the midfield where literally any oppo player can seeming glide through with ease. Having a midfield that can keep possession would benefit us massively.

It's also weird to think we have the first choice centre backs for England, Sweden and France and yet statistically the worst United defence in the premier league era. Hopefully ten Hag can improve them.
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That is an absolutely mental stat if you think about it. Wow.
 
You attack as a team and you defend as a team. Football has always been like this. The problem utd has is for a long time, it's a collection of individuals.

No identity on the pitch, various players giving random levels of work rate, many not really doing their jobs properly or with a real understanding of what their role is.

You cant really judge too much on the numbers this season, way too much going on behind the scenes which has led to a capitulation on the pitch. Over a 1/3 of the season the players have barely tried.

I trust ETH is going to sort things out, it'll take time. I just dont think it's as simple as utd buying lots of attackers, or anything. Way more to do with tactics and work rate which will lead to better output and goals scored and fewer goals conceded.
 
Our structure is all wrong - on the pitch/off the pitch. That's wrong. We don't recruit well, we don't plan well, we don't develop well players well. We stink.
 
Lost bear said:
Fair point: Brighton outplayed us completely. They were tactically vastly better and wanted to win more than our guys did, put simply. But the OP does have something important to say- he/she is surely right about Fergie's priorities, which depended heavily on firepower. Also, the ability to score goals does tend to overide other defects in a team. I remember Fergie saying something to the effect that 'we'll always score more than they do', I think it was in that last season, when we won the premier league. I don't think we can just rely on an aging Ronaldo, however well he plays sometimes. Without another deadly attacker who can beat a player and create a chance from nothing, we're fecked. Liverpool have it, City have it. Of course we need a better team, and I guess ETH's emphasis is all about the TEAM (look at your case of Brighton- that's essentially what they had over us), but the point about needing goals is a crucial one, nonetheless.
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That's not true. SAF was just as maniacal about the defense being solid. He had a very very low tolerance for defensive errors. Some of our best CBs since he retired (Smalling and Jones) were from SAF. His trash is treasure to other managers. He just made it look effortless. He wasn't simply let's outscore the opponent. The idea that we should just ignore key positions to chase an attacking star surely isn't from SAF's school of management. He did both.

You just saw the season that concluded. Our midfield isn't simply one that's bad, it has zero shielding to the defense. Teams can get a shot whenever they want. Any period of sustained possession we have is just borrowed time till the other team gets the ball back and strolls into our final 3rd. It's pointless trying to outscore anyone when you're this porous.
 
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Such revisionism going on in this thread.

People dismissing Fergie as relying solely on forwards to win us games, is probably only true of his final season to an extent with RVP. Look at Fergies teams throughout history and you had some of the best defenders, and midfielders the premier league has ever seen. Bruce, Pallister, Stam, Ferdinand (who Fergie obviously made the most expensive defender in the world). And then in midfield you've got Robson, Ince, Keane, Scholes, Beckham, Giggs and so on.

We know Fergie neglected the midfield a lot in later seasons but this revisionist idea that it was all about having good forwards is such a rewriting of what actually happened. Some of you make it sound like we just hoofed it upfield for our forwards to score. Never mind that you had a Ferdinand and Vidic as a rock in defence and Scholes and Beckham pinging in delightful balls for Rooney, Ronaldo, Solskjaer to score.
 
Paranoid Android said:
This is such a mind-numbing oversimplification of how football works.
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It is. That stat about only one team missing out on CL despite having two players scoring 15 or more bit might seem clever but you can't take statistics in isolation and draw conclusions from there.
 
roonster09 said:
Only in the last few years we had weak midfield. For most of the PL era we had Keane + Ince, Scholes + Keane, Scholes + Carrick. In last 2-3 seasons it was bit weak as Scholes was close to retirement, Carrick's poor form.
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I was talking about the last few years. We were totally outplayed by Pep's Barcelona in 2 CL final. But we still won the EPL, the most obvious was RVP won it for us. But in modern game now, this is impossible. Look at Klopp and Pep team, they are complete in every department. Hence, 100 points season.
 
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