Our most overrated keeper: it's Edwin / Don't Drink and Thread

[Spaghetti]

So when I said overrated...... this is what I meant.

Well it is true. He barely made any mistakes and caught pretty much every cross. Part of the reason our defence was so good is that they were comfortable with him behind them.

Of course there were some shots that he could have maybe saved, but he was much better overall than DDG and similar to Schmeichel.

 

[NoPace]

Exactly this.

VdS was a keeper who organised his back 4 brilliantly.

He was constantly communicating with them and arranging the game in front of him.

As I said previously, he’s underrated rather than overrated.

This is a bad one for bar debates because if you're not a match going fan you can't really see a ton of the communication on TV. Right up there with wingers beating the fullbacks with little runs forward and back to either go past them or come short to get the ball with some room to operate and probably some other things I don't even know to watch for.

 

[HairyBack23]

Do you understand the word overrated?! Half our own fan base doesn't rate him and wants Henderson to play.

He isn't rated ffs

Umm, no they don't though.

So somehow in your mind 50% of our fan base think De Gea is worse than Henderson and think VDS is our best ever. Talk about random unsubstantiated statements to suit your ridiculous thread.

'Do you understand overrated'. Says the guy who bases his argument off a YT video showing less than 0.1% of the shots VDS faced during his time at United. Whilst ignoring every other facet of his game.

 

[Skills]

Between 06 - 09, we had an amazing defense and a very good keeper behind it.

I'd say the difference between that 08-09 team vs Chelsea 04/05 was that Chelsea also had an amazing keeper at his prime. I reckon if you stick Cech behind Rio & Vidic, we break Chelsea's record of 15 goals conceded in a league campaign.

 

[siw2007]

VDS was one of Ferguson’s best ever signings. He was superb keeper and was great for us for a number of years, we were very fortunate that he was easy pickings at the time to take him from Fulham.

The only mark I would have against him was that his form sometimes dropped in the final third of the season and the odd error would creep into his game, often a handling error. This might have been down to his age though, despite being in your twilight years, the pressures of high level football must take its toll.

 

[Rossa]

He was a great organizer, great in crosses and had decent ball handling ability. But he was just an average shot-stopper.

Disagree with the bolded bit. He was brilliant at positioning and thus he made saves look easy where others would throw themselves about making it look spectacular.

 

[Jeppers7]

Anyone putting VDS close to Schmeichel is massively overrating him. Excellent keeper though.

 

[90 + 5min]

Watching a video showing the UCL final goals from 05 - 2020 on YT earlier and I must have forgotten just how crap Edwin was for three of the five goals we conceded.

Seriously tarnished my view of him.

What? Brilliant controling box. He had winners aura that spread around him. You could pretty much say every goalkeeper is worthless if you choose to take some moments in their career.

 

[harms]

Like to me, playing a similar role in the squad, Jesse Lingard is a better footballer than Ji-Sung Park. Many will say that is blasphemy, and then highlight every good thing Park did as evidence. But to me, key difference is Park’s era was far more ‘golden’ than the Lingard era. Still, Lingard has done things for us that Park could only dream of.

It’s not like Park had some incredible years at PSV before that, reaching a level of performances Lingard wasn’t able to replicate for more than 3-4 months (twice in his career).

 

[ManchesterManchester]

I can’t accept that DDG is an overrated keeper because he has played with such a crap team. He should be highly decorated with loads of trophies

 

[tenpoless]

I can’t accept that DDG is an overrated keeper because he has played with such a crap team. He should be highly decorated with loads of trophies

I agree. Those out of the world saves he kept making could have been the difference between a trophy and 2nd place. Unfortunately we were never really competing for a major trophy.

 

[Oranges038]

Not a great shot stopper...

 

[90 + 5min]

I can never forget his mistake against West Brom in 2011 or 2012 I think it was that cost us a 100% home record that season. Won 17 out of 18 and he drops a simple catch at the feet of some WBA no mark and we draw.

He was a very good keeper though, but as far as his United legacy is concerned, he, like many other footballers, has enjoyed added benefit from being in the right place at the right time. He was our keeper during a golden period, he was a good player, anyone who was a good player at the time gets elevated a bit retrospectively. Like to me, playing a similar role in the squad, Jesse Lingard is a better footballer than Ji-Sung Park. Many will say that is blasphemy, and then highlight every good thing Park did as evidence. But to me, key difference is Park’s era was far more ‘golden’ than the Lingard era. Still, Lingard has done things for us that Park could only dream of.

Lingard has never been a better football player. And never Will be. Park in his prime could play in pretty much every club in world. His understanding for game was amazing. Passing, work rate, could play both attacking and defending equaly good. Underrated player. He was extremly professional.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

What about VdS coming for crosses and in the air vs DDG…?

Or are we ignoring everything except for Hollywood saves?

 

[Jim Beam]

It’s it like Park had some incredible years at PSV before that, reaching a level of performances Lingard wasn’t able to replicate for more than 3-4 months (twice in his career).

He was incredible for South Korea as well being their main creative outlet.

Anyone putting VDS close to Schmeichel is massively overrating him. Excellent keeper though.

I think it's a valid debate. If I had to choose a keeper over the course of whole season I would probably take VDS, if its a one game final with everything on the line I would go for Schmeichel. Both had amazing international careers as well, so it's pretty close and considering their body of work matter of preference imo (aggressive, formidable presence of Schmeichel as opposed to calming and composed style of VDS).

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Umm, no they don't though.

So somehow in your mind 50% of our fan base think De Gea is worse than Henderson and think VDS is our best ever. Talk about random unsubstantiated statements to suit your ridiculous thread.

'Do you understand overrated'. Says the guy who bases his argument off a YT video showing less than 0.1% of the shots VDS faced during his time at United. Whilst ignoring every other facet of his game.

I said overrated. Again you still don't get what that means. People in here are calling him our best ever keeper.

 

[HairyBack23]

I said overrated. Again you still don't get what that means. People in here are calling him our best ever keeper.

Overrated by who? The imaginary half of our fanbase that think Henderson is better than De Gea according to you? There's barely anyone that thinks that. Probably a similar number to those that think VDS is our best ever. You're living in lala land.

 

[NewYorkRed]

Like, no way scoob.

Unlike people who don't understand the role at all aside from seeing saves. I can just see through the highlight moments and the hype. I'm not the only one that has mentioned him here. History will not be kind to our Dave. I can guarantee you that.

Think your guarantee is full of crap, just like you. I understand the role plenty. Can’t wait till ETH comes in and still keeps playing Dave, would love to get your insight then haha. Cya later, Shaggy.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

If you changed Bartez for Edwin in the title I'd be in agreement.

 

[Jeppers7]

He was incredible for South Korea as well being their main creative outlet.



I think it's a valid debate. If I had to choose a keeper over the course of whole season I would probably take VDS, if its a one game final with everything on the line I would go for Schmeichel. Both had amazing international careers as well, so it's pretty close and considering their body of work matter of preference imo (aggressive, formidable presence of Schmeichel as opposed to calming and composed style of VDS).

I disagree. Schmeichel is one of the best ever and won us the league alongside Cantona in 96. If you’d chose VDS for a season over Schmeichel I’m glad you’re not United manager.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

I'd probably have Van der Saar slightly over Schmeichel. Schmeichel was brilliant, one on one as good as any. Strikers seemed to fear him. He had a great relationship with the back 4. The Newcastle 1-0, what a performance. And he was very entertaining to watch. But he had mistakes in him. A lot. I can think of about 15 dreadful errors from him and he had a few wobbles particularly in the treble season. He got chipped a fair bit throughout his career too.

Van der Saar was close to flawless for me. He wasn't as eye-catching but he remained calm, it seemed to relax our back 4. He probably had a slight advantage with better Centre-backs in front of him. We conceded far less goals,not only down to him. He was excellent in the air, his positioning was terrific. I'd go for him just over Peter but both were incredible keepers.

 

[led_scholes]

I can never forget his mistake against West Brom in 2011 or 2012 I think it was that cost us a 100% home record that season. Won 17 out of 18 and he drops a simple catch at the feet of some WBA no mark and we draw.

He was a very good keeper though, but as far as his United legacy is concerned, he, like many other footballers, has enjoyed added benefit from being in the right place at the right time. He was our keeper during a golden period, he was a good player, anyone who was a good player at the time gets elevated a bit retrospectively. Like to me, playing a similar role in the squad, Jesse Lingard is a better footballer than Ji-Sung Park. Many will say that is blasphemy, and then highlight every good thing Park did as evidence. But to me, key difference is Park’s era was far more ‘golden’ than the Lingard era. Still, Lingard has done things for us that Park could only dream of.

Like what did Lingard do that Park could only dream of? Maybe the goal vs Leicester in the community shield. But I m sure Park is happy knowing that he scored one of the most iconic counter attacking goals vs our rival in a champions league semi final, or that Pirlo dedicated a passage about him, rather than dreaming scoring in community shield.

I do think that park is a bit ovverated, since he had many limitations, more visible when we were playing mid table clubs. But he was a great big game player, and that's why he was so important for 4 amazing champions league runs (1 with PSV, 3 for us), and he was instrumental for his nation in 2 world cups. Lingard can only dream being half the player Park was.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

I disagree. Schmeichel is one of the best ever and won us the league alongside Cantona in 96. If you’d chose VDS for a season over Schmeichel I’m glad you’re not United manager.

Yep I think Schmeichel is on another level of goalkeeper to Van der Sar and De Gea, Schmeichel is in the best ever category whereas the other two are in the best of their generation category.

 

[Ramshock]

Wow great thread will you follow it up with Robbo how shite was he?

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Yep I think Schmeichel is on another level of goalkeeper to Van der Sar and De Gea, Schmeichel is in the best ever category whereas the other two are in the best of their generation category.

Agree. I'd still have Van Der Sar half a step ahead of De Gea, but I think Schmeichel was on a different tier.

 

[lex talionis]

Van Der Sar is actually vastly underrated. I'd still give the slight edge to Schmeichel, but prime VDS was phenomenal, in some ways the better keeper although in the end Peter's command of the box is what makes his one of the greatest keepers in the history of the game.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Yes he was. Class keeper. People calling him our best ever? No. That makes him overrated.

I think the context in which we watch players, and our own personal circumstances at those times, colours our appraisal of them far more than we realise. If some people rate Edwin as our greatest keeper given the part he played in that ridiculously good team 15 or so years ago I'm not bothered enough to contradict them; he was the perfect man for that team at that time. As a complete package I certainly have him above De Gea, and he's up there with Schmeichel who even as an undisputed legend of the club is not beyond reproach on the terms you lay out in the OP (i.e. there is footage of Pete having poor games/making poor errors etc.).

Bottom line is comparing players across generations is a tough ask and I'm led to believe you like leaving a bit of bait here and there on the caf, so put this down as a bite if you wish

 

[Smores]

People forget that he had some periods of really bad form for us. Fantastic overall much like Carrick but both suffered periods of poor form.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

How many keepers have reached more CL finals the last 30 years? Navas?

I think Van der Sar has 4-5?

Of course he has played for great sides with great attacks, but it is still very impressive.

The greatest keepers we had in recent time with Buffon and Neuer has not done as much.
Although they have been better in world cups, but you can also say they have played for great national sides.

 

[Tavern in the town]

Thinking Edwin is overrated just makes me think people value the wrong things in goalkeepers. Someone like De Gea for example is one of the best pure shotstoppers in history yet lacks in pretty much anything else. VDS was the opposite - decent enough at keeping the ball out while being an amazing leader, could organise his own box and collected crosses for fun. The second type of goalkeeper is much much more valuable for me. There’s a reason we’ve never had an excellent set piece record while De Gea has been our keeper and it’s because set piece takers just drop the ball right into our 6 yard box knowing he’s not going to claim it.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

Tbh it’s a shocking view mate. There some absolute clangers from all our keepers in last few decades. De gea has had worse moments.

Joining 20 and spending 10 seasons plus already that’s to be expected. But look at his best moments and over how long, literally 5 world class seasons, a dip in for 2 years then back to normal past 2 years and his first year he made mistakes but was mostly down to age and being new.

 

[Jim Beam]

I disagree. Schmeichel is one of the best ever and won us the league alongside Cantona in 96. If you’d chose VDS for a season over Schmeichel I’m glad you’re not United manager.

Well, likewise mate considering your 'nowhere close to Schmeichel' hyperbole.

For what is worth I would have Schmeichel as our number 1 and VDS as our number 2 overall counting their peaks, influence, etc... Its just that I don't think the margin is that big between them.

 

[Red4Ever]

Tbh it’s a shocking view mate. There some absolute clangers from all our keepers in last few decades. De gea has had worse moments.

this ^^^

 

[Rozay]

Like what did Lingard do that Park could only dream of? Maybe the goal vs Leicester in the community shield. But I m sure Park is happy knowing that he scored one of the most iconic counter attacking goals vs our rival in a champions league semi final, or that Pirlo dedicated a passage about him, rather than dreaming scoring in community shield.

I do think that park is a bit ovverated, since he had many limitations, more visible when we were playing mid table clubs. But he was a great big game player, and that's why he was so important for 4 amazing champions league runs (1 with PSV, 3 for us), and he was instrumental for his nation in 2 world cups. Lingard can only dream being half the player Park was.

The Leicester goal wasn’t even his best solo goal for us. He picked up the ball well into his own half against Watford and went past their defence to score, he’s put numerous goals into the top bins from outside the box and in an era where success has been limited, has scored in two of our last 3 successful finals, the winning goal in one of them. Park was not a top player by any stretch, and who gives a feck if he played well for PSV in Holland either? He was not some superstar of the Dutch league like others. He was a decent player, at the right time. He could never have done what Lingard did at West Ham last season.

 

[Reapersoul20]

VdS about as overrated as bitcoin in 2002.

 

[Bondi77]

Watching a video showing the UCL final goals from 05 - 2020 on YT earlier and I must have forgotten just how crap Edwin was for three of the five goals we conceded.

Seriously tarnished my view of him.

He was never good on video.

 

[Lay]

Disappointed with his performances in the UCL finals with United. One massively important penalty save of course but he let some cheap goals in.

Overall a good goalkeeper for the club, he went through a weird patch one month when he made saves by punching the ball down. Cost us a goal against Roma first leg and against Portsmouth

 

[Caesar2290]

Disagree with the bolded bit. He was brilliant at positioning and thus he made saves look easy where others would throw themselves about making it look spectacular.

Exactly! He could pull off a worldie out of nowhere. His PL debut match he made a point blank save from a header that was going in the opposite direction of his momentum.

That save at Anfield when we were 0-1 up and with 10 men which basically secured the title. And that one from Bolton

 

[Fingeredmouse]

People forget that he had some periods of really bad form for us. Fantastic overall much like Carrick but both suffered periods of poor form.

I have no memory of runs of bad form. I remember him going through a spell of getting done with long rangers but he was still generally playing well. In fact, consistency is one of the key strengths I remember.

I may just have blocked out if course, but I remember a couple of properly bad runs from Big Pete (pre Christmas in our treble year for instance), so I imagine I would. Memory is an unreliable record though, so I'm sure you may well be correct.

 

[Desert Eagle]

The Leicester goal wasn’t even his best solo goal for us. He picked up the ball well into his own half against Watford and went past their defence to score, he’s put numerous goals into the top bins from outside the box and in an era where success has been limited, has scored in two of our last 3 successful finals, the winning goal in one of them. Park was not a top player by any stretch, and who gives a feck if he played well for PSV in Holland either? He was not some superstar of the Dutch league like others. He was a decent player, at the right time. He could never have done what Lingard did at West Ham last season.

except he did all that and more for his national team for years. Park was a top player by any metric and only because he sacrificed himself for the team and to win did we have the success we did with him in the side.