Our Defence - Has it actually been fixed?

Lindelof had a good game yesterday and I slag him off a lot as he's simply not good enough, but the mistake at the end killed any good will he might have received. AWB had a stinker and looks exhausted and Maguire who I've defended a lot has looked shaky since the restart.

De Gea has meant I've not been confident when they opposition has had a corner for what the last 8 years? He's about as dominating in the box as Angel Gomes would be if you stuck him in goal.

Matic looked tired, but we knew that would happen if he kept playing every game, that learn should have been learnt ages ago.
 
Not for me, still areas that can be improved. Also, Matic really should be sold. We needed to use this opportunity to get a new DM, who can actually screen the back line, not back away constantly that he ends up behind our CBs. Really annoys me that.
 
De Gea doesn't help. When the defenders have to go up for every ball, they are going to crack at some point. You want a goalkeeper that is willing to take charge when the defense is under pressure. The goalkeeper being able to use his hands is able to get to a wider range of balls compared to a defenders, and when he is able to hold some of these balls, it relieves pressure on the defence and allow them to regroup.

De Gea is non-existent when we are under pressure. Other teams defend with their outfielders and their goalkeeper, we defend with just our outfielders. His lack of presence allows teams to aim for areas that they normally would be trying to avoid with a more commanding keeper. Presence alone makes a whole lot of difference.

I think Maguire and AWB has aided our defence a lot, and with Shaw, we have one of the best in the league in the box and on the flanks. With De Gea in goal though, I don't see us ever having a great defence. That big goal is always on the way thanks to his impression of a traffic cone.

Looking at our backline now, I think getting him out should be the first thing we should be looking at.
 
Just
Renegade said:
Do you really believe that? His probably the most criticised starter alongside Lindelof this season. The majority want Henderson back next season.
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Just read above, mate. Regardless, I find it baffling, on the one hand that he is still a regular starter but on the other, we are stuck with him on those wages, so Ole has to make positive noises. Chelsea are after a keeper, so if they enquire over Henderson, we should offer ddg. Oddly enough, a similar situation to them having Bonetti and Stepney and we took Stepney off their hands. Think we got he better keeper and he was younger. Doubt he’d have let W Germany back into the game in the 70 WC like Bonetti did.
 
Since the restart, every goal we've conceded I've seen posters criticise our defenders. In the Tottenham game people blamed Maguire for being easily beaten by Bergjwin, some blamed Lindelof for not catching up to him, some blamed De Gea for not stopping the shot.

In the Bournemouth game Maguire for the first goal was blamed for being easily nutmeged, some blamed De Gea for not covering the near post. The second goal should not have been a penalty.

In the Southampton game, people are blaming the first goal on De Gea for passing the ball to a pressured Pogba. And the second goal I've seen people blame De Gea also for not punching the ball out, some blame Maguire for leaving his spot, some blame Lindelof for being out muscled.

I've seen people say our goals are caused by defensive errors but I wouldn't call them errors but more of the opponent exploiting our defenders weaknesses. We know Maguire's weakness is pace If Maguire was fast Bergjwin wouldn't have out paced him for the Tottenham goal.

We know Lindelof's weakness is his physicality and his pace. If he was fast he would have quickly caught up and stopped Bergjwin from scoring after he out paced Maguire. If he was stronger he would have also stopped Obafemi from scoring in the Southampton game.

We know De Gea is past his peak. We also know he doesn't like to come out of his post nor can he play from the back. If De Gea wasn't past his peak Bergjwin and Stanislas wouldn't have scored that goal in the Tottenham and Bournemouth games. If De Gea could play out from the back he wouldn't have given that ball to a pressured Pogba in the Southampton game. If De Gea likes to come out of his post then he would have done that and prevented that Southampton corner kick goal

Most of our goals conceded could not have been avoided because they are not caused by mistakes but by the weaknesses of our defenders. So no I wouldn't say it has been fixed
 
Lets be honest everyone in our back five is questionable. If money was no option we would look at uprgarding all of them, this includes Maguire and I'm a fan of him.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
Lets be honest everyone in our back five is questionable. If money was no option we would look at uprgarding all of them, this includes Maguire and I'm a fan of him.
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I think it is very fair to say that any of our back four is replaceable and could be upgraded on. There's also a strong argument for De Gea, who isn't having his best season. But, his top level is still miles above the top level of the rest of our defence. When comparing the attack of our side and the defence, there's a huge disparity between the two in terms of quality. Lindelöf had many good moments last night, but I don't think many are sold on him.
 
4th best defensive record in the division, with a team that has suffered plenty of injuries and includes 2 new defensive signings.. I’d say they’ve done well considering.
 
I'm so fed up with the agenda against Maguire from pundits, media and fans online.

He has been one of our best players this season.

He's been exposed a few times, like any defender but gets berrated because he cost 80 mil as if that means anything.

He was not at fault for that corner! He is the free man and went to win the header (because De Gea doesnt claim), and Matic fecks up with a flick on, Lindelof then gets beaten by his man. Yet Maguire is crucified online.

Its a load of nonsense.

I also think De Gea needs replacing because he does not command HIS box.

Rant over.
 
Our style has changed (for the better mostly) since restart but it has made the back 4 a lot more vulnerable. Individuals need to adapt quickly or changes will be needed for next season in my opinion.
 
I'm so fed up with the agenda against Maguire from pundits, media and fans online.

He has been one of our best players this season.

He's been exposed a few times, like any defender but gets berrated because he cost 80 mil as if that means anything.

He was not at fault for that corner! He is the free man and went to win the header (because De Gea doesnt claim), and Matic fecks up with a flick on, Lindelof then gets beaten by his man. Yet Maguire is crucified online.

Its a load of nonsense.

I also think De Gea needs replacing because he does not command HIS box.

OR we need another aerially dominant CB that also has pace. Difficult to find.

Rant over.
 
bsCallout said:
I'm so fed up with the agenda against Maguire from pundits, media and fans online.

He has been one of our best players this season.

He's been exposed a few times, like any defender but gets berrated because he cost 80 mil as if that means anything.

He was not at fault for that corner! He is the free man and went to win the header (because De Gea doesnt claim), and Matic fecks up with a flick on, Lindelof then gets beaten by his man. Yet Maguire is crucified online.

Its a load of nonsense.

I also think De Gea needs replacing because he does not command HIS box.

OR we need another aerially dominant CB that also has pace. Difficult to find.

Rant over.
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Totally agree. Most of our goals are down to goalkeeping errors and could easily be prevented if we had De Gea of old between the sticks. From the top of my head, only two goals that we've conceded since the lockdown where goalkeepers weren't at fault were penalty from Bournemouth and the goal from Norwich. Yesterday De Gea played a terrible pass into Pogba when Ings was running into him and didn't go out to pick up the cross from corner. So, if anything, it's goalkeeper that should be replaced.
 
How do you improve a back 4 worth £200m ? My biggest worry is with the lack of technical ability in RB and lack of pace in the centre of defence.
 
spontaneus1 said:
It seems like all the goals we concede no a days are the result of clear individual errors.
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I wouldn't call them individual errors. Most of them are as a result of the weaknesses of our individuals. Maguire and Lindelof's pace, Lindelof's lack of physicality, De Gea's inability to play from the back or come off his line/ being past his peak
 
Improved, but definitely not a world class back line. I'd like to see more anticipation and muscle from Lindelof, but otherwise I'm pretty happy with our options at CB and FB.

There's a big dropoff in quality from a fit Nemanja to Fred and/or Scott. On his day Matic is fantastic but he can't pull this off 2x per week, week after week. Bring in a proper DM to surpass Matic and either see to it that Lindelof improves his game or that we bring in a top CB.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I wouldn't call them individual errors. Most of them are as a result of the weaknesses of our individuals. Maguire and Lindelof's pace, Lindelof's lack of physicality, De Gea's inability to play from the back or come off his line/ being past his peak
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Spurs goal was a mistake from Maguire and DDG - same with Bournemouths first.

Bournemouth penalty was all our own doing, and Southamptons first was Pogba, and their second was just poor all round.

So yeah whilst these players have weaknesses, those goals were directly due to mistakes that you would not reasonably expect these players to make.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Spurs goal was a mistake from Maguire and DDG - same with Bournemouths first.

Bournemouth penalty was all our own doing, and Southamptons first was Pogba, and their second was just poor all round.

So yeah whilst these players have weaknesses, those goals were directly due to mistakes that you would not reasonably expect these players to make.
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Spurs goal was Bergjwin out running Maguire and we all know Maguire's weakness is pace. Lindelof's weakness is also pace and the goal could have also been prevented if Lindelof was quicker to cover for Maguire's pace and stop the shot. You would expect any pacy attacker to outrun Maguire and Lindelof because pace is their weakness

De Gea for me is past his peak, I expect him to give up goals cheaply as he did against Tottenham and in Bournemouth first goal and as he has been doing since the world cup. This has happened too regularly to let it slide as a mistake and you can now say his prone to errors have become a weakness of his. The second Sheffield goal could also have been prevented if Lindelof was physically imposing on the player he was marking which is a weakness of his.

The only goal I'd say is a mistake was the first Sheffield goal as I'd expect Pogba to easily bypass the player pressuring him
 
Nope....We need another top quality CB to compete with Lindelof and Maguire.Maguire isn’t a world class CB...Hes a good player who was better than what we had at the time,but he’s nowhere near being as good as Ferdinand/Vidic....Lindelof has improved a lot but we could definitely do with a top quality CB....If Ole doesn’t have faith in Dalot,then we need to sign another RB as well...So our defence is definitely not sorted at all,it’s Still a work in progress....
 
A shame about Lindelof. Watching back, he had a decent game, until it came to defending the corner. Not all his fault, as the orgy of players in front of him really should have got their head on the ball, but he was so easily shoved aside for their equaliser.

The thing with someone like Lindelof, is that he is a decent player and defender. Just not quite up to the standards we expect at Manchester United. He doesn't have the physicaility or athleticism to dominate his opponent. In fact, many a time he looks labored and panicky when defending stronger/quicker players, which ends up spreading accross the back line and team.

Maguire isn't perfect either, but he is streets ahead in terms of winning duels and aerial battles. For me, we need to priorise finding a CB partner for Maguire. What worries me is that Ole may not have the money if we buy Sancho and he might be waiting for Tuanzebe to come back.
 
bsCallout said:
I'm so fed up with the agenda against Maguire from pundits, media and fans online.

He has been one of our best players this season.

He's been exposed a few times, like any defender but gets berrated because he cost 80 mil as if that means anything.

He was not at fault for that corner! He is the free man and went to win the header (because De Gea doesnt claim), and Matic fecks up with a flick on, Lindelof then gets beaten by his man. Yet Maguire is crucified online.

Its a load of nonsense.

I also think De Gea needs replacing because he does not command HIS box.

OR we need another aerially dominant CB that also has pace. Difficult to find.

Rant over.
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It is because Manutd fans get triggered by rival fans. The daily mail photo of Harry Maguire, they all get on him as if he is at fault. Its as if none of them watched the game.

Footballing people will understand what Maguire has brought to this team.

He is exposed in some games, yet none of them can name 1 defender that NEVER gets exposed.

I have been trying to get this point across that there is no CB that fits the bill. Lazy fans will say Koulibaly.

This is why I am annoyed at the fact that Tuanzebe is always injured.
 
The games against Bournemouth Southampton and Crystal Palace has shown that it is very vulnerable to pacy attackers
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
The games against Bournemouth Southampton and Crystal Palace has shown that it is very vulnerable to pacy attackers
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I don’t think that “pacy attackers” have cost this team many conceded goals and not against Bournemouth - Southampton - Crystal Palace. It was more these three teams that showed to have problems with a pacy team like United.
 
We scored 13 penalties this season but we turned around and conceded 13 goals from set pieces ourselves which is terrible.
 
A CB and DM are a must for me. And an attacking fullback on one side. We need a DM who can run, tackle and pass. A CB with good overall defending, pace and good on the ball. Needs to be a bit aggressive.

Rice/Zakaria
Upamecano/Konate

go shopping Woody
 
Ace of Spades said:
Not for me, still areas that can be improved. Also, Matic really should be sold. We needed to use this opportunity to get a new DM, who can actually screen the back line, not back away constantly that he ends up behind our CBs. Really annoys me that.
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Matic has been outstanding recently. He changed the game on Thursday night when he came on .
 
Imo

We need to sell and replace Shaw with a top class left back and keep Williams as the understudy.

Replace Jones, Smalling and Rojo with one top class CB and another young CB with potential.

Ole clearly wants to move Dalot on so we may need another 2nd choice right back if not Williams can cover.

Leaving something like...

LB 1st Grimaldo 2nd Williams
CB 1st choice pairing Konate and Maguire
Backups Lindelof Tuanzebe and Diop
RB 1st AWB 2nd Williams

If we can improve on Lindelof as a starter and get more going forwards out of our left back we'd be solid. The scrap has to be replaced.

Martial
Rashford Fernandes Sancho
Matic Pogba
Grimaldo Maguire Konate AWB
De Gea​

Subs
Romero
Lindelof
Diop
Williams
McTominay
Greenwood

Genuinely feel we're 3 starters/positions away from challenging for the league next season. The bench would be stronger simply by players that are starting now moving to the bench.
 
We certainly need CBs who can handle themselves against strikers on one on one every time. I think lack of pace is one of our biggest concerns. Lack of pace in the CBs and our dm.
 
Why people want us to spend 55m release clause on a centre back Konate who is so far only able to accomplished 1 full season in his professional career. Not saying he's bad but don't you think it's a lot of money for someone who is unproven like him? Should at least give him another season.

We've seen Mangala at Porto, Mustafi at Valencia, Bailly at Villareal & Benatia at Roma. They look promising for 1 or 2 seasons, and look at what happened. Lot of centre back with pace tends to be poor positioning, so need to be careful when buying these players. We might end up wasting the money like how City did it on Mangala and the only way for them to get rid of him is wait for his contract to expired.
 
What is this fetish with Tuanzebe who has shown nothing that he is good enough so far. Lindelof certainly right now is a much better player than Tuanzebe.
 
Maguire and Lindelof have similar weaknesses. Against pacy strikers they'll struggle.
One way to fix it is to buy a CB that is strong and fast but they are usually less technical. Ironically, I still see Smalling as a better partner to Maguire than all the rest of CBs we have. I have nothing against Lindelof though, he's done okay.
 
MrSingh2002 said:
Imo

We need to sell and replace Shaw with a top class left back and keep Williams as the understudy.

Replace Jones, Smalling and Rojo with one top class CB and another young CB with potential.

Ole clearly wants to move Dalot on so we may need another 2nd choice right back if not Williams can cover.

Leaving something like...

LB 1st Grimaldo 2nd Williams
CB 1st choice pairing Konate and Maguire
Backups Lindelof Tuanzebe and Diop
RB 1st AWB 2nd Williams

If we can improve on Lindelof as a starter and get more going forwards out of our left back we'd be solid. The scrap has to be replaced.

Martial
Rashford Fernandes Sancho
Matic Pogba
Grimaldo Maguire Konate AWB
De Gea​

Subs
Romero
Lindelof
Diop
Williams
McTominay
Greenwood

Genuinely feel we're 3 starters/positions away from challenging for the league next season. The bench would be stronger simply by players that are starting now moving to the bench.
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Grimaldo can barely get out of bed without being injured and is a shocking defender.

Konate would be a good addition but the defence is good but bar Shaw they all fall apart under preasure. That goes for DeGea and Matic when he’s facing goal. We have a nice balance but if I could I would do this.

DeGea
AWB Konaté Maguire Shaw
Saul Pogba
Sancho Bruno Rashford
Martial​

Then in play it resembles something more like Shaw tucks inside to Pogbas position allowing Pogba and Bruno to join the attack with more freedom. Bissaka sticking out wide Sancho Bruno Martial and Rashford doing the same things we do now. Just Saul and Shaw protecting the back 2.

​
 
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Tiredness creates concentration level drops and mistakes. They’re all playing at 80% and it shows.

AWB should have been rested ages ago as he looks a shadow of the player we saw early season.
 
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