Our best team

Livvie

Executive Manager being kept sane only by her madn
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Joined
Jun 5, 2000
Messages
41,749
Barthez
Neville G
OShea
Ferdinand
Silvestre
Beckham
Keane
Scholes
Giggs
RVN
Ole

Argue with that. ;)
 
evryone knows that IS our BEST team, unfortunatly SAF persists with Veron and Blanc.
 
Originally posted by gfactor86:
<strong>evryone knows that IS our BEST team, unfortunatly SAF persists with Veron and Blanc.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So not everyone then. ;)
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if we can't operate without having that exact perfect 11 then we are fecked and we can kiss any sort of title away now we need to have quality throughout the SQUAD and i feel we have that it almost everywhere but up front ..... RUUD is fantastic. OLE is fantastic but only when with RUUD. FORLAN looks promising but promises don't win shit ..... so when RUUD is out we will struggle as we did today unless we can get a player who can hold the line upfront.

GET WELL SO RUUD (LIKE YESTERDAY PLEASE)

<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Barthez
Neville G
OShea
Ferdinand
Silvestre
Beckham
Keane
Scholes
Giggs
RVN
Ole

Argue with that. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

It a little bit ironic that you have omitted P Neville, after you sang his praises so much a while back when I dared to "criticise" him.

You point in one of your other comments that Ole worked his socks off- I agree, his goal was a great finish. I assume your inclusion of this comment was a sly dig at myself as I was quite critical of him a few weeks ago when he was playing poorly. When someone plays well, like he did in the 2nd half I am not afraid to say so, Well played Ole.

Since we are handing out sly digs, here is one of my own:

P Neveille was poor today, I think only Veron was worse. Seems you forgot to mention that, as your comments a few weeks back about how wrong I was about Nev now look a bit silly.
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Originally posted by Canadian Dee:
<strong>

It a little bit ironic that you have omitted P Neville, after you sang his praises so much a while back when I dared to "criticise" him.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I omitted him because I never have said he is the best at the club. He deserved credit for performing well in recent games - certainly a lot better than he has on several occasions in previous seasons.

I would never have Phil as an automatic choice in the first team if others were available. So there was nothing silly in praising him when it was due.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Barthez
Neville G
OShea
Ferdinand
Silvestre
Beckham
Keane
Scholes
Giggs
RVN
Ole
</strong><hr></blockquote>

There's a case to be made for Butt instead of Keane.
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Originally posted by Raoul:
<strong>

There's a case to be made for Butt instead of Keane.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It wouldn't be a hardship to have to play Butt instead of Keane. But Keano still has the edge imo - not just for his play but for his motivational skills.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>It wouldn't be a hardship to have to play Butt instead of Keane. But Keano still has the edge imo - not just for his play but for his motivational skills.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Time will tell if Keano's motivational skills will manage to overcome the disruptivness of his book fiasco and his sending off. At least with Butt, we get most of what Keano has without the unpredictable element.
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Originally posted by Raoul:
<strong>

Time will tell if Keano's motivational skills will manage to overcome the disruptivness of his book fiasco and his sending off. At least with Butt, we get most of what Keano has without the unpredictable element.</strong><hr></blockquote>


But can you see Keane on the bench????

Carroll, Butt, Forlan, Veron and A.N.Other would make a pretty strong bench as well.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>


But can you see Keane on the bench????

Carroll, Butt, Forlan, Veron and A.N.Other would make a pretty strong bench as well.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Looks like we won't have to worry about for a couple of months since he's in recovery and will also have to deal with his ban.
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Originally posted by Raoul:
<strong>

Looks like we won't have to worry about for a couple of months since he's in recovery and will also have to deal with his ban.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Only partly, as he's due back against Leverkusen in a couple of weeks.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Barthez
Neville G
OShea
Ferdinand
Silvestre
Beckham
Keane
Scholes
Giggs
RVN
Ole

Argue with that. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>
I cant, thats quite simply our best team, and on their day the best team in the Prem. I agree playing Butt wouldnt be too bad, but Keane is our captain at the end of the day.
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never mind what's our best team, we just don't have enough depth.
 
Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Barthez
Neville G
OShea
Ferdinand
Silvestre
Beckham
Keane
Scholes
Giggs
RVN
Ole

Argue with that. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>


for the PL.. yes but not for Europe.


still a case for Blanc, i think he's a class act.
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Originally posted by jraby:
<strong>never mind what's our best team, we just don't have enough depth.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I beg to differ. Our squad is fine for the Prem, all we need is a creative playmaker in the Ronaldinho/Duff mould.
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Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

still a case for Blanc, </strong><hr></blockquote>

Preferably one that remains shut. ;)

Blanc is even slower than he was last season. He may be class, but it's time for an O'Shea/Ferdinand partnership.

And I agree about Europe - that's where Veron fits in. For away games at least. We should still play an attacking game at home.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

And I agree about Europe - that's where Veron fits in. For away games at least. We should still play an attacking game at home.</strong><hr></blockquote>

yep..

Seba suits the CL, even SAF admitted that, he gets more space to run the game... in the PL, he chases the game too much...and lacks space to dominate in the same way.
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Agree your best team Livvie...this is the side I would want to see taking the field agst Arsenal in a few weeks.

It puts the best forward and midfield lines from last season out alongside the strengthened defence we can now have with O'Shea and Ferdinand as first choices. (I suspect Fergie will go with Rio and Larry on the grounds of experience, but i can live with that).

I think the team you have listed can still lift the European Cup. Unfortunately the weak point for the premiership is the weakness of the bench and the lack of cover. As per my other post, Phil Neville and Veron in midfield is a long way short of championship quality.

(And if anyone else posts drivel about how honest Roy Keane's book is then I will have a conniption fit. Today's game shows how badly we need our key players fit, available, and not sitting out key games through injury or suspension).
 
Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

yep..

Seba suits the CL, even SAF admitted that, he gets more space to run the game... in the PL, he chases the game too much...and lacks space to dominate in the same way.</strong><hr></blockquote>
the worse thing about having Seba in there (esp. when Roy or Nicky are not there) is he gets caught in possession a lot and when he loses the ball he cant win it back as tackling isnt his strong point.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Barthez
Neville G
OShea
Ferdinand
Silvestre
Beckham
Keane
Scholes
Giggs
RVN
Ole

Argue with that. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

I can agrue. I will play Keano, Butt and Scholes together in the midfield, with Giggs partner RVN up front. It seems Giggs and Ruud have great understanding with each other and Giggs can create chances as well as score, while on the other hand Ole never seems have too much spark with RVN.

But no matter what, as long as Veron is not in the team, it's a good team. ;)
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Barthez
Neville G
OShea
Ferdinand
Silvestre
Beckham
Keane
Scholes
Giggs
RVN
Ole

Argue with that. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

101% in agreement. But SAF seems to think otherwise. Maybe Blanc is not too bad.... but Veron!! <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gfactor86:
evryone knows that IS our BEST team, unfortunatly SAF persists with Veron and Blanc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

So not everyone then. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>


That IS our best team. But unfortunately the only person who counts disagrees with us. :)
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uranushk1

I can agrue. I will play Keano, Butt and Scholes together in the midfield, with Giggs partner RVN up front. It seems Giggs and Ruud have great understanding with each other and Giggs can create chances as well as score, while on the other hand Ole never seems have too much spark with RVN.
<hr></blockquote>

I beg to differ - Ruud always seem to have a re-charged enthusiasm whenever Ole comes on.

Anyway, I somehow have the feeling that deep in Fergie's mind, he's more interested in chasing European Glory rather than the EPL.

That's why I suspect that he let Roy go for the op despite not being absolutely necessary & still being unsure of the FA charges & punishment against him, & which has turned out to take effect only after he's recovered & will see him miss 5 EPL games on top of the 10 matches he has already missed, but which was timed to enable him to play against Bayer! <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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Ruud needs a partner, whether it's Ole or another striker.

But although Giggs or Scholes may have a good game playing behind Ruud, they aren't natural strikers.

It doesn't matter how good Ruud is, you only have to study a game when he's the lone striker to see the frustration at times. He runs around doing the work of two men, so it's hardly any wonder that he's going to suffer either injury or fatigue.
 
How any Manchester Utd supporter could contemplate leaving Roy Keane out of the side at the expense of anyone beggars belief,it also betrays an incredible lack of understanding of what makes a good football team, what makes a great footballer,or in fact what a football is...probably
 
Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>It doesn't matter how good Ruud is, you only have to study a game when he's the lone striker to see the frustration at times. He runs around doing the work of two men, so it's hardly any wonder that he's going to suffer either injury or fatigue.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I was worried about the injury/fatigue factor as the season started to roll along. Early on last year, Fergie would play Ruud as the lone striker in Europe and then would frequently rest him for the league matches. This year Ruud's been playing every match when he's been fit and most of them as the lone striker. You didn't have to be a genuis to know that this would catch up with him at some point. And I have to wonder if his hamstring problems aren't a direct result of playing so many matches as the sole striker.

On MUTV once they were talking about Giggsy's hamstring problems and about how playing as the SECOND striker could create a lot more problems for his dodgy hamstrings because he had to do so much more running. If that's the case, you've got to wonder if Ruud's problems with his hamstrings aren't connected to all the extra running and work that he's had to do as the lone striker.

Anyway, it just seemed entirely predictable that he would either burn out or his body would break down playing 4-5-1 twice a week. To me it was more a matter of when and not if...
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

I can agrue. I will play Keano, Butt and Scholes together in the midfield, with Giggs partner RVN up front. It seems Giggs and Ruud have great understanding with each other and Giggs can create chances as well as score, while on the other hand Ole never seems have too much spark with RVN. </strong><hr></blockquote> No width. Ryan's trademark is surging down the wing and supplying the forwards, otherwise our left flank looks bare.
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

while on the other hand Ole never seems have too much spark with RVN.

</strong><hr></blockquote>


You mean there was no spark when Ruud came on against Villa last season?

And 61 goals (or however many it was) were all scored without a spark?

I don't think so.

The team comes to life when the two of them are up front. Of course it's not going to work for every game - it never will. But even if the majority of their goals are scored independently of each other, there have been times when they have linked very well, and shown an understanding which can only improve with practice.

They scored the most goals as a pairing in 40 years or something didn't they? So it stands to reason that the more they play together, the better it will get.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>


You mean there was no spark when Ruud came on against Villa last season?

And 61 goals (or however many it was) were all scored without a spark?

I don't think so.

The team comes to life when the two of them are up front. Of course it's not going to work for every game - it never will. But even if the majority of their goals are scored independently of each other, there have been times when they have linked very well, and shown an understanding which can only improve with practice.

They scored the most goals as a pairing in 40 years or something didn't they? So it stands to reason that the more they play together, the better it will get.</strong><hr></blockquote>


They are both terrific goal scorers, and I never doubt their goal scoring ability. What I mean by "spark" is the link up, just as you said. Ruud and Ole can improve their understanding thru partice, yet their link up will never be as good as Sheringham and Cantona did for us, because they simply are not that kind of player.

We can all see how we struggle against those mediocre opponents even on our home soil. I believe one of the main reason is we don't have a Cantona, a Sheringham, or a Dwight Yorke who have the skill and creativity to provide the spark to open a defence. In the present United squad, I think that Ryan Giggs is the most probable person who can provide this kind of creativity and spark up front.
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>


In the present United squad, I think that Ryan Giggs is the most probable person who can provide this kind of creativity and spark up front.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes - in creating goals for others.

Giggzy is not a natural goal-scorer. I know he's done exceptionally well this year, and he will always have those moments of brilliance. But those moments shouldn't make you forget that until this season it was 3 years since he scored a goal at Old Trafford. For every brilliantly conceived and executed goal, he has made glaring misses, usually down to the fact that he's one-footed.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

Yes - in creating goals for others.

Giggzy is not a natural goal-scorer. I know he's done exceptionally well this year, and he will always have those moments of brilliance. But those moments shouldn't make you forget that until this season it was 3 years since he scored a goal at Old Trafford. For every brilliantly conceived and executed goal, he has made glaring misses, usually down to the fact that he's one-footed.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I understand what you mean. So the ideal case would be -- we should buy a new forward later who can create chance as well as has a decent scoring rate. For the time being, I agree we can stick with 4-4-2 with Ole and Ruud up upfront if possible.
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>


I understand what you mean. So the ideal case would be -- we should buy a new forward later who can create chance as well as has a decent scoring rate. For the time being, I agree we can stick with 4-4-2 with Ole and Ruud up upfront if possible.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I wish we could find an unknown and make him a star. They're out there somewhere.
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I think it`s a case of ignoring what is at home and looking elsewhere in vain. Why not give Danny Webber a real opportunity to test himself in the first team? Is it just my imagination or does Manchester United have an aversion (or rather does Sir Alex)to bringing on homegrown strikers and giving them the opportunities they need?

Why the hell are we always buying strikers from other clubs but overlook our own?

:( :( :( :( :( :(
 
Perhaps it's because we don't have the home-grown quality strikers, giggsgirl?

Apart from missing a linkman like Cantona, I feel that we lack width on both wings.

We have now seen Becks perpetually in the middle with Scholes, Butt/Keane & Veron over the last few months & it's been made worse by Giggs joining the party in the centre, leaving the wings severely undermanned.

Trying to get the ball foward mainly through the middle is naive & doesn't work & therefore most through balls are gobbled up by opposing defenders, the attacks break down, & opponents counter-attack via the wings & against our over-worked backs who are used as auxiliary wing-backs!

How many goals have we scored via the middle compared to via our wings this season? Also, how many have been conceded recently via our flanks?
 
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