Osimhen v Kane
- Thread starter croadyman
- Start date
My preference is Kane too, but I don't feel the Weghorst should be in any conversation for us to build a profile of our future CF purchase around. His workrate is exceptional, but his application is nothing special. Tevez, Rooney, Chicharito, Welbeck all with great workrate. They had a knack of winning the ball too, not just mere harassing. ETH implemented him in that no 10 role, but I would argue he can be as hinderance in some cases more than a help. Weghorst is no where good enough to be compared to Kane's playmaking ability, and scorer instinct goal anticipation.
If you want Kane, it's because you want Kane. Not because Weghorst.
Highlight from last season vs City how operate when his team was forced to sit deep, and play on counter.
I'm starting to really warm to Osimhen the more this season goes. As a compatriot who never really rated him, he's been making me look more and more silly each week. If attainable, he might just be that heck of a signing that elevates us to a scoring machine (provided we're beefing up the midfield of course). We create a feck ton of chances already for a greedy and potent striker to gobble up. And the crosstown rivalry with the Nordic Yeti...tasty!
Ugh I’m very conflicted, leaning towards Osimhen but to be honest either player would improve us in tremendous (albeit in very different) ways and I guess if we do actually manage to get either one of them then that’s a good conundrum to have for ETH?
OR
Just take money, sign them both and figure it out later
———-——-Osimhen———-——-
Rash———--Kane——-—Bruno
———FDJ———Casemiro——-
OR
Just take money, sign them both and figure it out later
———-——-Osimhen———-——-
Rash———--Kane——-—Bruno
———FDJ———Casemiro——-
What I can't get my head off is why we should sign a striker to play in the 10 role.
One of the main reasons I’m open to Kane to United is because
Rashford - Kane - *****wood
hasn’t been tested/failed at International level when it easily could have very easily be done by now.
Everyone was particularly pissed off with Southgate preferring Sterling at LW than Rashford as well in the World Cup.
Rashford & Kane by themselves haven’t been exactly tested either even if our RW is someone like Antony.
Rashford - Kane - *****wood
hasn’t been tested/failed at International level when it easily could have very easily be done by now.
Everyone was particularly pissed off with Southgate preferring Sterling at LW than Rashford as well in the World Cup.
Rashford & Kane by themselves haven’t been exactly tested either even if our RW is someone like Antony.
I imagine the logic is that Kane would be able to drop deep and put Rashford through when he runs in behind. And of course he does score plenty himself. As I’ve said before my worry with him is his physical intensity and off the wall effort. Don’t want us to waste time covering up for his flaws which will grow as he ages.
Kane does not just play as a 10. He drops deep or wide and is extremely intelligent at linking up attacks. But he's always there in the box to finish the chances, better than almost every other pure 9.
Thats why he's so good.
Harry Kane guarantees a title challenge, the other one doesn't.
Tim Sherwood isn't playing any more, he retired back in 2005 or something like that
I would be happy with Osimhen, but I expect that would mean we play an inverted RW like Bruno as it makes no sense to have three runners up front and no one to occupy the half space.
Kane would suit us much better.
I think if we got Kane, he'd end up winning Player of the Season next year... It would be RVP-esque.
BUT, it's how much he'd cost and how many top-level years you'd get out of him after that... 2? 3?
BUT, it's how much he'd cost and how many top-level years you'd get out of him after that... 2? 3?
So basically what Bruno did before we signed Ronaldo,right ?
My opinion though if we signed de jong,then we should sign osimhen.if it's Bellingham then we should sign Kane.
It would create a far balanced system if we considered their strengths and flaws.
You're saying Kane is similar to Bruno I think. Which is an opinion, I'll give you that. And you're very welcome to it.
We've got a good team now. If it was my money, I'd be getting Kane in the door. He'll have a really top 3 years left in him (probably), which is perfectly in line with getting the most out of our time with Casemiro and Varane. After that, we'll be back in transition for a year or two, so maybe our next good team, apart from now and the next couple of years, starts to form in 5 or 6 years... Say Osimhen doesn't hit the ground running, and has a difficult 18 months...new league, new country, quite possible.. Then we're waiting until he's 29, 30 years old.
Kane is less of a gamble. His age lines up with our squad - lets stop building and win something. The next great striker will still exist in 3 years time.
Kane is less of a gamble. His age lines up with our squad - lets stop building and win something. The next great striker will still exist in 3 years time.
Kane is alright. Five years ago he’d have been great. If this is a binary choice it’s no contest in my view.
Edit: anyway we have a Harry already
Edit: anyway we have a Harry already
Just looking at his goals. Very good movement, knows how to stay offside, very strong in the air, and he just knows how to be at the right place at the right time.
I don't see much special or brilliance per se, but that is brilliant in itself because it is such a hard part of the game. It looks like luck, but it isn't when he keeps doing it.
We would have to really improve though on our crosses and corners, I find them to be rubbish. I fear he would score much less of those.
It is also very worrying to see how few moments of absolute brilliance you see when he's up there against defenders, he can greatly influence play from deeper with his distribution. But will you see him to be able to outpace, outmuscle, out dribble or trick defenders, I doubt so. His movement is very good and if the likes of Bruno, Rashford, Antony, Casemiro can find him, he'll score goals. But you need much more for such a fee and especially at that age. Not that the options are great, but to compare this Kane to RvP or RvN is a big error in my view. He'll score goals, but not catapult us to the next level I fear.
I don't see much special or brilliance per se, but that is brilliant in itself because it is such a hard part of the game. It looks like luck, but it isn't when he keeps doing it.
We would have to really improve though on our crosses and corners, I find them to be rubbish. I fear he would score much less of those.
It is also very worrying to see how few moments of absolute brilliance you see when he's up there against defenders, he can greatly influence play from deeper with his distribution. But will you see him to be able to outpace, outmuscle, out dribble or trick defenders, I doubt so. His movement is very good and if the likes of Bruno, Rashford, Antony, Casemiro can find him, he'll score goals. But you need much more for such a fee and especially at that age. Not that the options are great, but to compare this Kane to RvP or RvN is a big error in my view. He'll score goals, but not catapult us to the next level I fear.
Not sure this Kane dropping into the 10 position idea is as great as people are thinking. Seems a bit simplistic to me. Kane drops in, through ball, Rashford scores. To me that's not something to base an attack around, it's one particular sequence of moves that is possible.
I think Kane fancies himself too much as this 10 and his managers seem to have a hard time keeping him in the box. I think that only gets more dramatic as he ages. For now he still plays a 9 role but I wonder how that is going to balance out over the coming years.
Also look at the profile of our squad. Bruno - creator. Sancho - should be a creator. Antony - should be a creator but isn't, yet plays like one. Even Amad is more of a creator if he comes back. Wouldn't we better off with the dynamic option, Osimhen pace and running behind the defender to actually give these guys space to operate in. How can you only have Rashford threatening to break lines out of 5 or 6 attackers? I think we'll have to be very precise to play to Kane in some games and it'll look quite frustrating and ponderous.
I think Kane fancies himself too much as this 10 and his managers seem to have a hard time keeping him in the box. I think that only gets more dramatic as he ages. For now he still plays a 9 role but I wonder how that is going to balance out over the coming years.
Also look at the profile of our squad. Bruno - creator. Sancho - should be a creator. Antony - should be a creator but isn't, yet plays like one. Even Amad is more of a creator if he comes back. Wouldn't we better off with the dynamic option, Osimhen pace and running behind the defender to actually give these guys space to operate in. How can you only have Rashford threatening to break lines out of 5 or 6 attackers? I think we'll have to be very precise to play to Kane in some games and it'll look quite frustrating and ponderous.
For me Haaland bought back the value of the traditional number 9 over the false 9. Kane gives us the mix of the best of both. It was peps major mistake even if haaland is the better more deadly forward, kane suits possesion teams more. We are one & have to take advantage of citys mistake. Arsenal arguably did with gabriel jesus at the start of the season.
He's only ever been part of a title challenge once, and that's when his team came third in a two-horse race. So whatever his qualities are, he very clearly doesn't guarantee a title challenge.
I’ve also got a bad feeling about him, and I’m keen to see how he does in the latter stages of the CL. Having watched Ajax a lot, do you think Ten Hag would prefer him or Kane?
Put him in our team and he does make us a title contender for sure.
I don't think that's anywhere near as certain as you make it out to be. There isn't one single active player in the world who on his own guarantees a title challenge for United.
Rashford/Garanacho -Kane/martial- Antony/**eenwood
Thats a proper system where central players try to set up inverted fws whilst scoring goals themselves. Rashford & **eenwood play as 3rd & 4th strikers
Thats a proper system where central players try to set up inverted fws whilst scoring goals themselves. Rashford & **eenwood play as 3rd & 4th strikers
I don't think EtH needs one type of striker. Haller is maybe a bit more like Kane minus the ability on the ball. But Haller despite his goals was very frustrating. Ajax played their best football I think with Tadic, Dolberg, which Kane resembles more than Osimhen tbf.
But I don't think EtH is building an Ajax team at all. Varane, AWB, Fred, Rashford etc are really different players in style.
I think this United team is far weaker in possession and positional play but more vertical, direct. Osimhen would fit that more than Kane.
Well, he inherited all these players and he strongly favoured Dalot over Wan Bissaka throughout the season. So he might eventually want to move towards turning this team into something resembling his Ajax teams a lot more.
That Ajax team with Onana, Mazraoui, De Ligt, Blind, Tagliafico, Schone, Frenkie, Donny, Ziyech, Tadic, Neres had ball players on basically every position except Donny who has other tactical qualities.
EtH's most important offensive player was Tadic, who is so completely different than our current star Rashford. Their football is just completely opposite.
Players like Varane, De Gea, our rightback, Fred, Rashford hold back that style of play, while they are very good in their own right. But this is half of the team, I really think we'll see a different style, which is good. He's not that rigid.
Yeah we’re definitely not a team in his mould yet. We don’t really play like Ajax at all, so it’ll be interesting to see which one he goes for. Is he going to try and ship out the players he inherited or adjust his style to suit? Someone in the middle? Either way as impressive as Osimhen has been when I’ve seen him, I’m not 100% sold.
Having ball players in every position is something I desperately want at United. Generally, those are the teams that regularly compete for the big things. I don't think Varane holds anything back - he certainly didn't hold Real Madrid back! - while De Gea, Wan Bissaka, or Fred are very much replaceable.
Varane is great in his own right, Real for their clear succes though, I don't think their football has always been great. They are the greatest winners I've ever seen in football, somehow.
His lack of ball playing abilities were permissible under that wonderful Real midfield though, Kroos/Casemiro/Modric, my word.
I think we are going to see a different team, which is fun. I think at times, like against Betis, I enjoyed our play just as much as I enjoyed some of his best Ajax' versions. That was total domination.
That’s a great team there, no need for Dalot in it to be honest since Bruno as a creative outlet doesn’t need a over lapping fullbackUgh I’m very conflicted, leaning towards Osimhen but to be honest either player would improve us in tremendous (albeit in very different) ways and I guess if we do actually manage to get either one of them then that’s a good conundrum to have for ETH?
OR
Just take money, sign them both and figure it out later
———-——-Osimhen———-——-
Rash———--Kane——-—Bruno
———FDJ———Casemiro——-
Lucky for you that’s what will happen.
I think that screams goals unlike this season.
Yeah, tactically he's probably the profile we're looking for. A quality younger version could be a better solution but its more of a gamble going after unproven players. Kane would be, a Casemiro type solution where theres a higher probability of success. Of course this is all speculating on Spurs being reasonable to negotiate with which is rarely the case.
Im talking about the shape with a big strong centre forward who can hold the ball and release to fast players (mainly Rashford) comimg past him or to a playmaker to make that pass. It was similar when Cavani was here. We need that profile, like Weghorst, but better. We dont need a pace man, Rashford offers that in the same way Ronaldo did at Real with Benzema releasing him. I'd still sign Weghorst though, he's a solid proffessional and addition to the squad who always puts in his best game. That creates a positive atmosphere. We've had too many guys come through the doors who, at least from an outside perspective, just havent had that focus and enthusiasm.
We shouldn't be planning with Rashford being our only real source of pace and directness IMO. We should have two up there, whether that is having that extra pace at striker with a creator on the right, or whether we have have it coming from the right with more of a creator or target man at striker. In saying that, I would certainly want the striker to still be good at hold-up play and releasing others either way.
You can have pace and creativity in one player. I think that’s what we need. Both Rashford and Osihmen are pace and no creativity. That’s the problem.
That's fair, and obviously having as much of both in the one player as possible would be ideal. Most players lean more towards one than the other though, so the goal is to figure out which balance between the different aspects would be best for the team. And then finding the player that fits that best.
Rashford himself used to be more creative than he seems to be nowadays, so whether that is an actual deterioration in that aspect of his game or whether it's because he doesn't trust the players around him to create for, who knows. I haven't seen anywhere near enough of Osihmen to know where he fits in that balance, but he definitely does seem to be more a pure finisher than helping with the creative duties. There is a risk that the two of them together may overbalance us towards pure pacy counter-attack style of football rather than building up a more dominant style of play, but I'm also worried about us continuing to rely too much on Rashford being the only one providing that driving force and directness. Maybe Kane would be perfect if we do end up filling that right wing with he-who-shall-not-be-named, but who knows how he'll return after so long out, or whether he'll return at all.
That’s fair but what you highlighted is how I see it. If we get Osihmen I don’t see our style of football changing I.e counter attacking dependent. We will be better at it but we will burn out if we continue to have a similar season to this playing over 50 games and I don’t see this playing style as ETH envisioned final style.
I think we get over Rashford’s reliance with Garnacho improving, Greenwood’s potential return and a ball caring midfielder I.e. FDJ or Bellingham.