Saha and Tevez did at Fulham and Boca respectively with Tevez impact at Boca making his arrival at West Ham look particularly odd/dodgy from the start. You are however right about Alan Smith IMO (even given his part in Leeds CL run) which considering how his subsequent career at United went only proves my point about fair weather footballers.
Ollie Watkins / Villa Player
- Thread starter SadlerMUFC
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Saha and Tevez did at Fulham and Boca respectively with Tevez impact at Boca making his arrival at West Ham look particularly odd/dodgy from the start. You are however right about Alan Smith IMO (even given his part in Leeds CL run) which considering how his subsequent career at United went only proves my point about fair weather footballers.
Saha goals record at Fulham while in the PL compare favourably to what Watkins has done at Villa
Which wouldn't get you anyone really talented. Even on a loan
Goals alone don't tell the whole story as both Tevez and Saha had superior technical ability particularly with back to goal but Saha had two standout seasons at Fulham (strangely his first and last from what I can remember) and joined us at 25 years old, it hard to pick out one whole one for Watkins at 27.
A really talented person is unlikely to be available on loan mid-season
Always rated him. Was shocked when Ian Wright said he wasn’t a good finisher on MOTD a few months back. Watkins has really proven him wrong since then.
Bingo. Even if they were. They wouldn't be 3m cheap neither
Or he has actually improved his finishing since thanks to Emery's coaching....
Nah, disagree with that. He has been a good centre forward for years.
I feel You are conflating being a good center forward with being a good finisher. Its not by coincidence he is now on his best scoring run in the league. Finishing well consistently is the only thing that has held him back since he arrived at EPL level. He is one of the few around consistently good at everything else. I don't believe I've ever seen Wright label him a poor cf. But I agreed with him that his finishing needed work.
I still disagree. I think the main issue was that the teams he was in weren’t making enough chances. I often saw a good finisher in him before this season. In that sense maybe Emery has had an influence, but on the team in general.
I think it’s fair to say that Watkins has put any doubts to bed.
My initial reaction to what Wright said was surprise, as even though he had a poor start to the season, I had seen him finish well before.
Only one goal less than Rashford and two more assists than him.
Only if we forget about the 13 other goals and 4 assists that Rashford has contributed, and he's played a majority of the season from LW off of a striker like Wout.
Watkins is a good player, always a handful for defenders, and scoring regularly at the moment. Hard to say whether it's just a purple patch or not. I'm not sure he's good enough to play for a club that wants to challenge for the title though. He'd probably be a very useful player in a squad with that aim, but Villa wouldn't let him go cheaply, so it's unlikely we'll ever find out.
There are murmurs that Bayern want him
Is he a Bayern level player?
He'd probably smash the Bundesliga like I smashed your mum last night
Is he a Bayern level player?
He'd probably smash the Bundesliga like I smashed your mum last night
While Watkins could score a lot in the league, would he get them to the champions league final? I don't think he's anywhere near Lewandowski
While Watkins could score a lot in the league, would he get them to the champions league final? I don't think he's anywhere near Lewandowski
Probably not but the confidence he would get playing in that league would do wonders for him, you never know. I never thought Gnabry looked all that special but he's certainly had an impact at Bayern.
I don't see how you can coach finishing to a 27 year old.
It's likely just confidence. No second guessing.
I fail too see how you can't. If he has the attitude and work ethic to take great coaching in board. Finishing is a skill. No one should conflate it with being a natural goal scorer.
I just don't see how a second tier midfielder can teach finishing to a Premier league level striker. Like how specifically does that work on practice?
Who? Did he play today? Might be a decent striker but can't handle the Shaw-Lindelöf partnership.
This claim is up there with wondering how journey man players can become the greatest coaches ever ....
It shows how fecking shit our options are when I dream of having a bang average striker like Watkins in our team.
Not at all. I'm not saying you have to be a good player to be a good coach.
I'm just wondering what these finishing drills are that can suddenly turn a 27 year old into a top finisher. Almost immediately. Barely any practice required. From a manager who wasn't a goal scorer. That's one hell of a drill Emery has up his sleeve.
Or could it be its just a player reaching hispeak? Or maybe having some short term form?
What's more likely.
Watkins' xG over/underperformance over the last few years:
18/19: +1.6
19/20: +2.4
20/21: 0.0
21/22: -1.0
22/23: +0.1
Net: +3.1
Doesn't really back up ideas of him being a poor finisher or someone who has magically improved his finishing. Just looks like typical variance of a typical player really.
18/19: +1.6
19/20: +2.4
20/21: 0.0
21/22: -1.0
22/23: +0.1
Net: +3.1
Doesn't really back up ideas of him being a poor finisher or someone who has magically improved his finishing. Just looks like typical variance of a typical player really.
I think his purple patch had already ended before our game luckily
As I tried to explain earlier. Finishing is a skill. NOT a talent. People often conflate that with what natural goal scorers do. Natural goal scorers don't have to be taught how to finish. For them they are taught how to use movement to their best advantage because the naturally have the composure to slow all play around them in their minds and the natural affinity to almost always hit the ball sweetly to evade a keeper.
But there exist players like Watkins. Calvert Leweyn (before Ancelotti worked on him before injury set in again) Who get into all the right positions. But were not consistently hitting the balls in the right way because they DON'T have the inate instinct. Players like that can get better by improving there finishing through practice and study.
Best example I can think of amongst elite players is Henry. He went from being an ok finisher to a truly deadly marksman within a year of arriving at arsenal. Able to out score the likes of Owen without ever having an Owen's natural variety of goal scoring finishes in his arsenal.
Even in our current team. Martial is more of a natural finisher than rashford when fit. But a Rashford thanks to steadily improving his finishing skill can now match or surpass him in numbers.
You are joking right?
A decent player but nothing more. Don't be surprised if Emery doesn't look to upgrade.
Wout Weghorst has a record of 1 goal every 2 games in the Bundesliga
Yes, I think Watkins would do quite well.
Goalscoring just is... many players who score many, don't have a great, sweet, at times powerful shot (like Shearer, Kane, Drogba, or Haaland etc..) Think of RVN.. an outstanding goalscorer, not rely on 'sweet' strikes or power. He just knew how to play against defences, and he knew how to convert chances. That's a mentality and a responsibility that not many players have. Inzaghi is another example, he could hardly kick the ball, but he scored loads of goals. Loads.
Martial is not some great finisher... no left foot and he cannot head the ball.
True. To be fair eleven goals in twelve games is pretty damn good. But Kevin Phillips, Andy Johnson, Roque Santa Cruz, Mikael Forssell, Marcus Stewart and many others have had similar periods of form.
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How are you so sure it's all that and not just a run of form? Or a player reaching his peak?
How are you so sure it's all that and not just a run of form? Or a player reaching his peak?
Because Watkins has always been a consistently dangerous forward since his Brentford days. Just not a consistent finisher. Besides, I also trust Wright's judgement when he analyses a forward's finishing.
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I’ve said it over the last year or two, but he would have been a very good pick up when we were looking for a striker.
He's a good player but quite wasteful. Considering the scarcity of chances we seem to create, he would have a horrid relationship with our fanbase.
Good player.
But if people think Rashford is greedy they will die watching Watkins.
But if people think Rashford is greedy they will die watching Watkins.
Good player but given he has indeed underperformed his xG in every PL season thus far, the stick he gets for not being clinical enough isn't unwarranted.
How much?
Only a year left on his contract next summer. They would still be looking for 50m I'd guess.
Edit: He has signed a deal till 2028. No chance of him moving for anything but silly money now.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theath...ollie-watkins-aston-villa-new-contract/?amp=1