Ole's clear-out

Red00012 said:
If anything Ole has done he has cleared a lot of scrap out of the club , granted Lingard and Pereira are loans but based on the current PL squad Jones is the only one left of the players that needed moving on.
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Mata James. As you pointed out Linz Perriera and Dalot will all be back like a bad case of the piles
 
Red00012 said:
If anything Ole has done he has cleared a lot of scrap out of the club , granted Lingard and Pereira are loans but based on the current PL squad Jones is the only one left of the players that needed moving on.
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Chongy may follow in the summer. Hope he does well at Brugge, but I've never got the impression that he will be a starting player for us, unfortunately. Bit in the Lingard mold. Seems like a great guy, but from the little we've seen of him, not the best footballer. Hope he develops more and proves me wrong though!
 
In his +/- 2 years here:

Sold: Smalling, Fosu-Mensah, Rojo, Sanchez, Lukaku, Darmian, Young, Valencia, Herrera, (Ighalo)
Loaned out: Lingard, Andreas Pereira, Dalot

Impressive. The amount of wages saved is immense.

Still need to get permanent deals for Lingard, Andreas Pereira, Dalot, Jones, Romero...
 
onemanarmy said:
In his +/- 2 years here:

Sold: Smalling, Fosu-Mensah, Rojo, Sanchez, Lukaku, Darmian, Young, Valencia, Herrera, (Ighalo)
Loaned out: Lingard, Andreas Pereira, Dalot

Impressive. The amount of wages saved is immense.

Still need to get permanent deals for Lingard, Andreas Pereira, Dalot, Jones, Romero...
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Very good point but wonder if the likes of Matic, Mata & James need to join this list in the summer too in order to make room for a CDM, Diallo and Sancho/Grealish. You could argue we also need to move a CB in the regular squad out too as don't really count Jones as has been injured.
 
croadyman said:
Very good point but wonder if the likes of Matic, Mata & James need to join this list in the summer too in order to make room for a CDM, Diallo and Sancho/Grealish. You could argue we also need to move a CB in the regular squad out too as don't really count Jones as has been injured.
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Matic under contract until 2023, Mata's is out in the summer though. James id bet goes out on loan. From CB, can see one of Tuanzebe or Bailly going. Tuanzebe needs regular football and he just won't get that here.
 
bosnian_red said:
Matic under contract until 2023, Mata's is out in the summer though. James id bet goes out on loan. From CB, can see one of Tuanzebe or Bailly going. Tuanzebe needs regular football and he just won't get that here.
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Yeah think Axel is the one that looks the most likely to go out of those too, in regards to Matic that was utterly stupid giving him a new 3 year deal and don't even get me started on that Jones one either
 
onemanarmy said:
In his +/- 2 years here:

Sold: Smalling, Fosu-Mensah, Rojo, Sanchez, Lukaku, Darmian, Young, Valencia, Herrera, (Ighalo)
Loaned out: Lingard, Andreas Pereira, Dalot

Impressive. The amount of wages saved is immense.

Still need to get permanent deals for Lingard, Andreas Pereira, Dalot, Jones, Romero...
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You forgot Felliani!
 
bosnian_red said:
Matic under contract until 2023, Mata's is out in the summer though. James id bet goes out on loan. From CB, can see one of Tuanzebe or Bailly going. Tuanzebe needs regular football and he just won't get that here.
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Lee Grant is the only senior at OT with a contract expiring this summer.
 
onemanarmy said:
In his +/- 2 years here:

Sold: Smalling, Fosu-Mensah, Rojo, Sanchez, Lukaku, Darmian, Young, Valencia, Herrera, (Ighalo)
Loaned out: Lingard, Andreas Pereira, Dalot

Impressive. The amount of wages saved is immense.

Still need to get permanent deals for Lingard, Andreas Pereira, Dalot, Jones, Romero...
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Not meaning to be controversial or argumentative....but is it that impressive? 10 out in four windows on permanent deals, thats 2.5 per window and only Lukaku has bought in any type of transfer fee worth mentioning. Obvious reasons for some, but every one of those players has left the club bar Lukaku way under value. You could barely buy Long John Silver for £5m nowadays let alone a championship player yet so many of these deals are way under that fee.

Thats only 2/3 of the 15 you mention moved on in four windows and without naming them to digress from the point, there is plenty of argument for moving on 7-8 players you havent even mentioned.

In my opinion bar 3/4 signings he has made, like the managers before him though not to such a scandukous degree, he has made the wrogn signings and not made enough of them and certainly not moved out enough players quickly enough, several that have been given improved contracts under his tenure that makes them hard to sell and if we do they go for a pittance to get them out of the door.

Whether that is the managers fault, the scouts, owners or whoever. We may be movign in the right direction, but far far slower than we should be and the way we are,w e wont bridge the gap. We have a premiership where the first half of the season, the champions had no centre backs, the ex champions had no strikers, the whole league is incapable of defending and we still dont really look good enough to challenge for the title
 
jesperjaap said:
Whether that is the managers fault, the scouts, owners or whoever. We may be movign in the right direction, but far far slower than we should be and the way we are,w e wont bridge the gap. We have a premiership where the first half of the season, the champions had no centre backs, the ex champions had no strikers, the whole league is incapable of defending and we still dont really look good enough to challenge for the title
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So what gives us the divine right to defend capably?

The reason City didn't sign a striker is because the manager knows the can play a false 9. He has done that at Barca and at City last season.

Secondly, Fabinho played CB/RB at his previous club, Matip only just got injured.

Love how you are so capable of making excuses up for others but fail to see why we failed at the start. Maybe having no pre season, should be in your list?
 
jesperjaap said:
Not meaning to be controversial or argumentative....but is it that impressive? 10 out in four windows on permanent deals, thats 2.5 per window and only Lukaku has bought in any type of transfer fee worth mentioning. Obvious reasons for some, but every one of those players has left the club bar Lukaku way under value. You could barely buy Long John Silver for £5m nowadays let alone a championship player yet so many of these deals are way under that fee.

Thats only 2/3 of the 15 you mention moved on in four windows and without naming them to digress from the point, there is plenty of argument for moving on 7-8 players you havent even mentioned.

In my opinion bar 3/4 signings he has made, like the managers before him though not to such a scandukous degree, he has made the wrogn signings and not made enough of them and certainly not moved out enough players quickly enough, several that have been given improved contracts under his tenure that makes them hard to sell and if we do they go for a pittance to get them out of the door.

Whether that is the managers fault, the scouts, owners or whoever. We may be movign in the right direction, but far far slower than we should be and the way we are,w e wont bridge the gap. We have a premiership where the first half of the season, the champions had no centre backs, the ex champions had no strikers, the whole league is incapable of defending and we still dont really look good enough to challenge for the title
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Do you think Ole negotiates the deals or something? Not his fault he inherited shit players that were sold for shit fees. You can’t just dump the whole squad in 1 or 2 windows either, because we all knew they weren’t bringing much money back.
 
Zlatattack said:
We're slowly getting to the place where our squad overhaul objectives aren't "clearing out those clearly not good enough" but instead "replacing the weaker players to improve competition and improve the level of the squad".

We should be focusing on who's the weakest in each position and whether we can improve on them.
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Agreed. In that sense I see the main priority as a true defensive midfielder. Fred has learned to do a decent job of it and fair credit to him, but his energy and small stature mean he alternates between amazing ball-winning harassment and just getting walked past. McTominay is either a defender or a box to box. He's been tried more than enough in the double pivot with nothing to write home about other than the Leeds game (where he had all the space in the world to do his box to box thing). Matic is getting more inconsistent as he ages and his lack of speed is getting exposed more.

A true defensive anchor in the double pivot would allow Fred, McTominay, Pogba and VDB to compete for the other spot (with McTominay freed up to bomb forward the way he loves to), with Fred and Matic able to fill in defensively and Pogba and VDB able to go further up as well into Fernandes' role.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah but what can you expect when bank managers are making important football decisions
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It looked the right decision at the time in fairness, Matic was playing well. I'm sure Ole and the coaching staff had a say in the extension too, and it wasnt just the business-men in the club that made the decision.
 
It’s difficult to underestimate just what a bloody good job he’s done in this respect. It’s why, whatever happens, Ole will be the first manager to leave the job with the squad in a much better position that he’d found it. You would hope the club actually back him with a winger and (probable) Pogba replacement in the summer.

Downplay it all you want. If it was so easy then the other fools would have done it. They didn’t; they only added to the wage bill through poor decision-making and an appalling lack of ruthlessness.

There’s no drama or negativity either. He just stops playing players and they quietly make their way out of the door. It’s a real skill.
 
Kag said:
It’s difficult to underestimate just what a bloody good job he’s done in this respect. It’s why, whatever happens, Ole will be the first manager to leave the job with the squad in a much better position that he’d found it. You would hope the club actually back him with a winger and (probable) Pogba replacement in the summer.

Downplay it all you want. If it was so easy then the other fools would have done it. They didn’t; they only added to the wage bill through poor decision-making and an appalling lack of ruthlessness.

There’s no drama or negativity either. He just stops playing players and they quietly make their way out of the door. It’s a real skill.
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Great post and completely agree.

Its the difference between getting a longer-term thinking manager in too. Jose especially, didnt care what it did to the club long term, he was only thinking 12 months ahead (if that), whereas Ole actually cares about the club and has its best interests at heart.
 
Kag said:
It’s difficult to underestimate just what a bloody good job he’s done in this respect. It’s why, whatever happens, Ole will be the first manager to leave the job with the squad in a much better position that he’d found it. You would hope the club actually back him with a winger and (probable) Pogba replacement in the summer.

Downplay it all you want. If it was so easy then the other fools would have done it. They didn’t; they only added to the wage bill through poor decision-making and an appalling lack of ruthlessness.

There’s no drama or negativity either. He just stops playing players and they quietly make their way out of the door. It’s a real skill.
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People tend to downplay the job, look at the issues with Gendouzi, Saliba that Arsenal have to deal with, added to that Ozil.

The way he got Alexis and the like out, without a fuss, he even said to us, I am looking forward to him coming back after the initial loan.

Man management is a real skill, whether you like it or not, Ole is probably one of the best at it in the PL at the moment.

Look how he dealt with Pogba, Maguire, Greenwood etc.. constantly protecting his players in public.

He isn't worried about what people think of him, he knew it was a long term play, the short term would be difficult with a bunch of crap players. He is building a team that any manager would come and make work with.
 
Clear the decks and buy players that are potentially better than our current starters. Current starters not at it become squad players before they are eventually cut and hopefully sold for decent fees given their experience and age. That’s the way to do it. Don’t be bringing in poor players to pad the squad so we don’t block xyz’s development. No expensive passengers anymore!
 
jesperjaap said:
Not meaning to be controversial or argumentative....but is it that impressive? 10 out in four windows on permanent deals, thats 2.5 per window and only Lukaku has bought in any type of transfer fee worth mentioning. Obvious reasons for some, but every one of those players has left the club bar Lukaku way under value. You could barely buy Long John Silver for £5m nowadays let alone a championship player yet so many of these deals are way under that fee.

Thats only 2/3 of the 15 you mention moved on in four windows and without naming them to digress from the point, there is plenty of argument for moving on 7-8 players you havent even mentioned.

In my opinion bar 3/4 signings he has made, like the managers before him though not to such a scandukous degree, he has made the wrogn signings and not made enough of them and certainly not moved out enough players quickly enough, several that have been given improved contracts under his tenure that makes them hard to sell and if we do they go for a pittance to get them out of the door.

Whether that is the managers fault, the scouts, owners or whoever. We may be movign in the right direction, but far far slower than we should be and the way we are,w e wont bridge the gap. We have a premiership where the first half of the season, the champions had no centre backs, the ex champions had no strikers, the whole league is incapable of defending and we still dont really look good enough to challenge for the title
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Yes it is impressive, especially compared to previous managers who kept adding to the pile of deadwood and shifting almost none of it. The main reason we made so little in fees is probably due to players being on stupidly high wages, hardly a fault of Ole. Your point about us not challenging for the title this season, after teams around us had poor first halves of the season, seem ridiculous considering we were top at the halfway mark, so we absolutely did take advantage when our rivals were not at their best, not to mention the fact that absolutely nobody expected us to be in such a lofty position in the first place. It's strange how injuries to other teams seem to be used as a clear and obvious reason as to why they are doing worse than us this year, yet when we were devasted with injuries in the first half of last season, that was deemed no excuse when the Outers were in full voice this time last year.
 
jesperjaap said:
Not meaning to be controversial or argumentative....but is it that impressive? 10 out in four windows on permanent deals, thats 2.5 per window and only Lukaku has bought in any type of transfer fee worth mentioning. Obvious reasons for some, but every one of those players has left the club bar Lukaku way under value. You could barely buy Long John Silver for £5m nowadays let alone a championship player yet so many of these deals are way under that fee.

Thats only 2/3 of the 15 you mention moved on in four windows and without naming them to digress from the point, there is plenty of argument for moving on 7-8 players you havent even mentioned.

In my opinion bar 3/4 signings he has made, like the managers before him though not to such a scandukous degree, he has made the wrogn signings and not made enough of them and certainly not moved out enough players quickly enough, several that have been given improved contracts under his tenure that makes them hard to sell and if we do they go for a pittance to get them out of the door.

Whether that is the managers fault, the scouts, owners or whoever. We may be movign in the right direction, but far far slower than we should be and the way we are,w e wont bridge the gap. We have a premiership where the first half of the season, the champions had no centre backs, the ex champions had no strikers, the whole league is incapable of defending and we still dont really look good enough to challenge for the title
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Totally agree. So many of the players we have got rid of have the been the deadest of dead wood (no where near good enough and / or always injured). In many cases the fact they have been at the club so long is an indightment of the way the club has been run post Fergie, with rojo being a good example of that. Its not as if we have been getting big fees for players like liverpool do either.

Overall I am glad the players we have got rid of are gone but think we could have got rid of them earlier and think pretty much any manager would have made the decision to get rid of them. In order to improve the squad we need to improve recruitment and decisions on contract extensions otherwise we will just end up with a new wave of dead wood.

Some of the decisions made during ole's reign which make me question whether we have done this are: phil jones contract extension, matic contract extension, de gea conract extension (after he had a number of high profile errors), the van de beek signing. You could potentially through the likes of telles and james into the mix who clearly don't look upto the level of player we need
 
Whether we deem it impressive or unimpressive, the clearout of the deadwood, stockpiled by Ole’s three predecessors, is almost wrapped up.

There’s a bit more work to be done, but we are now almost at the place where every member of the books can be a productive member of the matchday squad.
 
lex talionis said:
Whether we deem it impressive or unimpressive, the clearout of the deadwood, stockpiled by Ole’s three predecessors, is almost wrapped up.

There’s a bit more work to be done, but we are now almost at the place where every member of the books can be a productive member of the matchday squad.
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Agree with this.
Early on I was sceptical that Ole had the ability to make tough decisions but he has proved me wrong. The squad is so much stronger now than it used to be, exactly as you say.
 
The way some people talk about clearing out the squad all the time, we'd be left with a barebones squad and playing 18-year-olds in key matches. Mata and Matic are fine squad players. What's wrong with Mata? He plays reasonably well when he does play, he donates some of his wages to charity and seems like a nice guy. You don't have to pay his wages, United can more than afford his wages.

Matic is actually an important enough player in the squad and has played quite well this season. He is suited to certain games like he was one of the best players on the pitch against Burnley away. He's maybe not good enough to be a consistent first-choice player - so he isn't. He's started only 7 of the 22 PL games so far. That's perfectly fine for a player with Matic's qualities.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
The way some people talk about clearing out the squad all the time, we'd be left with a barebones squad and playing 18-year-olds in key matches. Mata and Matic are fine squad players. What's wrong with Mata? He plays reasonably well when he does play, he donates some of his wages to charity and seems like a nice guy. You don't have to pay his wages, United can more than afford his wages.

Matic is actually an important enough player in the squad and has played quite well this season. He is suited to certain games like he was one of the best players on the pitch against Burnley away. He's maybe not good enough to be a consistent first-choice player - so he isn't. He's started only 7 of the 22 PL games so far. That's perfectly fine for a player with Matic's qualities.
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Low performance levels. If our youngsters like Elanga cant outperform what hes done this season they have no chance of making it
 
Remember when Keane was asked in that best of enemies interview what was Fergusons worst and best attributes and he said ruthlessness. I think Ole has a bit of a ruthless streak, and I think you need it at this club. Its where the standards come from.
 
Green_Red said:
Remember when Keane was asked in that best of enemies interview what was Fergusons worst and best attributes and he said ruthlessness. I think Ole has a bit of a ruthless streak, and I think you need it at this club. Its where the standards come from.
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It's hardly as if LVG or Mourinho were scared cats. They had no problems getting rid or players. They just made shit choices and stuck to wrong ones.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Matic is actually an important enough player in the squad and has played quite well this season. He is suited to certain games like he was one of the best players on the pitch against Burnley away. He's maybe not good enough to be a consistent first-choice player - so he isn't. He's started only 7 of the 22 PL games so far. That's perfectly fine for a player with Matic's qualities.
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Agree. 7 of 22 PL games is fine this season; a valuable squad player. I expect the number to decrease next season. If so we can assume he cross the threshold to be a not valuable squad player or deadwood. Both United and Matic will benefit from a move in the summer window.
 
DannyCAFC said:
Not true. Mata, Romero, Joel Pereira.
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Agree with Romero. I thought United had triggered a 1 year extension. Joel Pereira is not a senior; he's never played for the 1st team and has never been in the squad. Mata has a 1-year extension option too. United always seem to trigger the 1 year extension. Mata has done well this season; I expect his extension will be triggered.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
Agree with Romero. I thought United had triggered a 1 year extension. Joel Pereira is not a senior; he's never played for the 1st team and has never been in the squad. Mata has a 1-year extension option too. United always seem to trigger the 1 year extension. Mata has done well this season; I expect his extension will be triggered.
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He's still out of contract though, which means Ole has the opportunity to get rid of him. And has he played well? Don't think he's played since before Xmas, and hasn't even made the bench the last couple of games. Considering his minutes seem to be reducing every season, I'd be quite surprised if United keep him, especially as he's on a hefty wage.

Pereira has actually played 3 games for United, and he turns 25 before his contract expires so yes, he's a senior.
 
Matt851 said:
Totally agree. So many of the players we have got rid of have the been the deadest of dead wood (no where near good enough and / or always injured). In many cases the fact they have been at the club so long is an indightment of the way the club has been run post Fergie, with rojo being a good example of that. Its not as if we have been getting big fees for players like liverpool do either.

Overall I am glad the players we have got rid of are gone but think we could have got rid of them earlier and think pretty much any manager would have made the decision to get rid of them. In order to improve the squad we need to improve recruitment and decisions on contract extensions otherwise we will just end up with a new wave of dead wood.

Some of the decisions made during ole's reign which make me question whether we have done this are: phil jones contract extension, matic contract extension, de gea conract extension (after he had a number of high profile errors), the van de beek signing. You could potentially through the likes of telles and james into the mix who clearly don't look upto the level of player we need
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So why didn't they, why was it left to Ole?
 
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