Who are the PL LBs you rate above him?
Oleksandr Zinchenko: The most underrated player in the PL?
- Thread starter simplyared
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Think he's a good signing for Arsenal. Very tidy player. One of those technically very good but not that physical CBs, say the Lahm, Marcelo, Guerreiro, Cancelo, Mazraoui type. Could be interesting. Does Arsenal have a left sided attacker who links to hug the line? I could imagine Arteta players him as an inverted fullback
Very good and tidy young player, very intelligent tactically, though not very exciting to watch. Anyone who has watched him with Ukraine can see how influential he can be from the midfield, so i hope Arteta is planning to use him as a midfielder, though he can also occasionally use him at FB if necessary.
Anyone saying that Arsenal got robbed for that price, is out of their mind IMO.
Anyone saying that Arsenal got robbed for that price, is out of their mind IMO.
A very good signing for Arsenal!
Edu and Arteta want a versatile player who can play LB and CM for around 30m. They could not get Martinez so Zinchenko is a good alternative.
He sums up Arsenal right now. A decent, middle of the road player really. I think he's been made to look better than what he is in Pep's system surrounded by quality players. Very similar to Jesus in that regard.
He’s mediocre as feck. I haven’t watched a City match for years and not thought he’s comfortably the worst part of the team. Closely followed by Jesus.
Has looked a different player when I’ve seen him play internationally. I do believe there’s a ceiling when you buy players from the ‘Top’ clubs though otherwise they wouldn’t be selling them.
He's very good for depth at 30m. He will start at LB when Tierney has his niggling injuries and can fill in at CM quite competently too.
Not who you were responding to, but off the top of my head:
Robertson
Chilwell
Cancelo
Cucurella
Shaw (if skinny)
Digne
Tierney
Probably in that order for me.
The funny thing is that I've heard this argument made for almost every player in Pep's starting 11. "Made to look better in Pep's system". I'd go on to juxtapose this against the idea of Pep being a fraud but it's late so I can only pray that Ten Hag has this bald sorcery of transforming middle of the road players into integral components of title winning squads...
Based on performance or reputation?
I think of those names you've listed, very few (Robertson, Cancelo) have put together multiple complete seasons as Zinchenko has done at LB for a while (the 2018-19 and 2020-21 seasons come to mind). Shaw and Chilwell have shown they have higher ceilings of performance but they haven't done it consistently enough (due to injury and other factors). Cucurella, Digne and Tierney? No way, so far.
Opinions though, and all that...
I think he’s a cracking signing for Arsenal and probably more suited as a utility player to play LB and CDM than Martinez who was best at CB.
I think he’ll be a star at Arsenal.
I think he’ll be a star at Arsenal.
I don't think those two seasons were anything to write home about from him to be honest - he played ~1150 and ~1475 minutes those years in the league. Robertson and Cancelo have obviously put up multiple seasons that were better as you say, but Chilwell's last two years at Leicester and his first year and a half for Chelsea were both miles better. Shaw's last year at Southampton was better than either of those Zinchenko seasons, to say nothing of his 18/19 and 20/21 years. Also would strongly disagree that Digne and Tierney haven't had significantly better seasons than Zinchenko - from 18/19 to 20/21 Digne was phenomenal for Everton and in 20/21 Tierney was far better than Zinchenko ever has been.
I just view him as a pure passenger in that City team - only useful because he happens to be left footed and better on the ball than Nathan Ake. For me he's a far better midfielder than a LB - always feel like he is easily exposed both positionally and in 1v1s when he's at left back (e.g. in the CL final for the Havertz goal).
That said, it's very much my own opinion - but I don't think it's a coincidence that City are trying to replace him with Cucurella hence my preference. If they were swapped last year I'd have a hard time believing that Brighton would have been better off personally.
From one bench to another
Tierney is a better left back....
feels like Arsenal have signed about 15 defenders the last few years with no real reliable players
Not sure what his plans are for Zinchenko - good squad option at least
feels like Arsenal have signed about 15 defenders the last few years with no real reliable players
Not sure what his plans are for Zinchenko - good squad option at least
I get Cucurella is flavour of the month but not sure on that one, Shaw can’t come with a caveat and I disagree re Tierney and Digne.
Cancelo is in the same team so it’s basically Pool and Chelsea’s starting LB who are definitely above him and his own teammate. Even if I give you Cucurella he’s still top 5 LBs in the PL.
No arsenal fan expects him to start over Tierney...
I guess I just fundamentally disagree. He's never played 1500 minutes in the league ever - if he was playing more regularly in a team that had to defend more often he'd be far more exposed. If we're being extremely charitable here he's an entirely mediocre defender.
I don't think he's close to the top 5 of PL left backs frankly. For me any of those that I mentioned would have contributed more and improved City had they been swapped.
Are they expecting him to be fit then?
I think it’s more there aren’t really a lot of great LBs out there rather than him being incredible. By the end of this season we might be saying Shaw/Malacia are better and others or he might play LB and have a stormer for Arsenal although I have seen rumours of him in midfield.
I guess we’ll see now at Arsenal how he does in a non dominant team.
Europa league level player but that’s just fine because that’s where he is headed. Seems like a good guy but he is nothing special. Just a Ukrainian James Milner really, jack of all trades and master of none.
Yeah I think that's totally fair - I just personally wouldn't anoint him as a great player given how limited his contributions have been in such a dominant team.
I think the midfield rumours make a lot of sense though - given the circumstances a Xhaka / Zinchenko pairing isn't a terrible option.
Great signing. Cheap and can cover multiple positions. Also a much better player and what people here claim
Don't be fat shaming Luke
Shaw has gone from one of the top 2 left backs in the world to 6th in the league when “skinny” in 12 months.
Classic United over the past 9 years.
"Goddammit" He's not fat, he's big-boned. As for this lad, haven't seen much of him recently, but when I have, he was average and won't get in over Tierney if he stays fit.
I had him 5th to be fair!
And honestly he's the hardest to place in the list - could be anywhere genuinely. On the basis of last year he's not even a top 10 PL left back; on the basis of two years ago he's the best in the league. Hope for his sake that the regime change will give him a kick up the arse a la Ole.
As I said, it is classic United over the past 9 years.
Every one of our “stars” has massive performance swings season on season based on manager and media pressure.
Ah apologies - totally misread it and thought you were taking objection to my post.
Regarding the performance swings (and at risk of derailing the thread), I do think that a lot of it is down to purely coaching - having a manager who is familiar with modern methods / sport science with a track record of improving players is key. ETH ticks those boxes for United for the first time post-SAF, I'd reckon.
This is definitely opinions based, everyone has one and what not, so take mine with a grain of salt.
You can't look at it by minutes unfortunately.
The first season I highlighted, Delph fell out of form/favor, and Mendy kept on getting injured. Zinchenko seized his position at LB and it coincided with City going on a run of 18 consecutive win run to reel in Liverpool and win the league. The second season I highlighted, he and Cancelo were being rotated, however towards the business end of the season Zinchenko was the first LB, as Cancelo dropped in form somewhat. Zinchenko in particular put in an amazing performance against PSG if I recall correctly. So minutes played don't tell the full story, I think any City fan you asked would acknowledge Zinchenko playing a crucial tactical role in those seasons.
Ratings are subjective, so let's assume your point of Chilwell and Shaw outperforming him is correct. The idea of him being a passenger in City's side is insane. You can't have a passenger in City's insanely high back line, without getting ruthlessly targeted by the opposition. Despite this I can't recall many instances of him getting mugged by top opposition, which suggests he has great positioning. Great in the air defensively. He has very good technique, has the tactical awareness to tuck in to support Rodri, or slot into the half space when Foden overlaps. How on earth is such a player being carried?
From what I see of City fans, I think they think of him very similarly to how Chelsea fans view Azpilicueta. A cheap signing who's managed to hold his own in a squad full of expensive signings, great attitude and character, similar diminutive style, popular in the dressing room and a cult hero with fans, & can play a couple of different positions to good effect. Not the most spectacular of players but nearly always dependable and the type that every good squad needs.
The main difference between the 2 is that Azpilicueta is the better defender hence can play inside as 1 of the centre backs, and Zinchenko is better on the ball because he's really a midfielder playing left back, & Zinchenko is 7 years younger.
A nothing player, never understood the fuss about Zinchenko
Good post, I don't know why he is rated among top LBs. He has never started more than 15 league games for City and yes, starts and mins do matter.
Agreed with the write up, there are LBs who had better seasons than him.
He is 25 years old, his best league season as per mins is 1474 mins.
Arsenal is a good move for him, he is good player so there is no point spending rest of his career playing just 1000 mins and 10 league games.
You have ignored big difference, Azpi didn't just hold his squad position, he always held his starting 11 position. He had wide range of managers, from rookie to veterans, from defensive managers to proactive front foot managers and every single one of them started him all the time. Managers who played wing system made room for him as right center back and managers who wanted to play Ivanovic as RB, played him as LB. Common point is, every manager wanted him on the pitch.
Similarities ends at "Fans like the player".
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was quite surprised when I saw how much Arsenal paid for him
he's bang average
he's bang average
Azpilicueta for Chelsea holds much greater value than what Zinchenko was for City.
Underrated? He is one of the City's players who heavily benefited from playing in an extremely well coached team even though individually his qualities are questionable. I never rated him and was always hoping he would play against us, looked like the obvious weak link in their team.