Ole Sack Watch

[Flexdegea]

Conte has won 4 Serie A titles and a PL title. How do you know he won’t win titles with this squad?

I'm taking a massive guess here, but he prob thinking we up against 3 of the best teams in Europe, and 3 best managers about, to win them league titles, so he doubtful it's a done deal with the tweak of the manager.

Mad people think we just drop in Conte in and it's done deal, these titles don't grow on trees.

 

[Adisa]

No, I don't want them to rush to anything. But Poch has achieved nothing so far to deserve it either. I don't get their supposed hard on for him. I hope we are looking at other options too.

Agree with your last bit. But I hope the club have a profile of who they want and stick to it.

 

[Rash Decision]

Funny how the percentage of votes for sacking Ole is slowly but steadily getting lower, btw.

 

[RedBanker]

I also don't see the good in sacking him now and keeping Carrick as caretaker for those three games.

Why not? The end result is likely to be the same. Three losses. But at least it will be statement of intent from the Board.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I also don't see the good in sacking him now and keeping Carrick as caretaker for those three games.

The point is that it's a board that's already shown before that they are willing to abandon all logical thought and pre planned decisions once a few good results come about. Ole was supposed to be a caretaker while we searched for our next manager, with absolutely no hint that he was ever up for the role full time, and suddenly he gets some nice results and bam, they hire him full time, and here we fecking are.

They've also shown that they are desperate for him to succeed here because him failing would represent yet another massive, costly feck up on their behalf so if he DID somehow get good results against Spurs and City then they will absolutely see it as an excuse to continue with him further.

More than likely though we'll grind out a draw against a shite Spurs and he'll be let stay on then for City who will embarrass us even more than Liverpool did.

 

[Sviken]

I'm taking a massive guess here, but he prob thinking we up against 3 of the best teams in Europe, and 3 best managers about, to win them league titles, so he doubtful it's a done deal with the tweak of the manager.

Mad people think we just drop in Conte in and it's done deal, these titles don't grow on trees.

So what's the deal? We should stay with Ole until he dies of old age because no manager who comes here is guaranteed to win titles?

 

[Craig Ward]

I've been a fan of what Ole has done and is trying to do with us, but he has been here a while now and he's always divided the fan base, the scrutiny and pressure in this job will always be ten times worse than others.

It looks right now, like it's a matter of time.

I think Ole's biggest downfall in all honesty is being too nice and trusting the players too much.

Ole is the only manager post Fergie who looked to have some clue in the transfer market. He's had 4 managers worth of players signed for different styles and a disjointed balance in the squad. Ole hasn't nailed the squad yet - but realistically he was never going too.

To do the work he has done with the current set up has to be seen as a positive. He's also tried to install a new culture within the club - again trying to integrate youth players, new signings and 4 managers worth of players before him into one vision is a pretty big task.

To an extent - i'd say he has succeeded there. No squad is perfect but overall he's made positive changes.

On paper, we have a superb x11 and a decent squad. There are glaring issue's with the squad but it's telling that we are underperforming so regularly.

We have a young, perhaps too inexperienced coaching set up. We seem slow to react tactically and our players are almost certain to make individual errors at some point.

If we dismiss Ole and hire Conte (as an example) is that really the answer? He'd be working within the same constraints as Ole.

We are so far behind on the football pitch to so many big clubs, we looked championship level against Liverpool, but the way we run the club is so dated and old school. We've been left behind and I wouldn't even say the stuff we see on the pitch is the worst of it.

Our owners are far from ideal. Woodward is a shambles. We have no structure, no idealogy. No clear vision. If City got rid of Pep, then they'd bring in a similar style and they're next manager would work to they're structure and set up. Arteta is trying to bring that to Arsenal, Tuchel likewise to Chelsea.

We would just jump to a different style, new coaches new vision and repeat the same cycle as we always do. We're pretty abject in this regard.

Ultimately, Ole will only be dismissed because of two reasons
1) Results
2) Player revolt

Number 2 worries me. Once you lose the dressing room, that's it. Game over. Manager has no chance.
The players haven't exactly covered themselves in glory lately and we have some big ego's in there.

Personally, I see no value in Ole going now. There isn't a short term fix. I said the same when Poch was being highly touted - what's the point in this set up that we have? So we can repeat every 2 years because we dont learn or evolve with modern day football?

If we went drastic or bold i'd be for it - a whole change to our set up/coaching/DOF etc. It's the only logical conclusion. Like one of the German models.

Replacing Ole for Conte or Zidane just seems pointless to me. Yes Conte and Zidane have better pedigree at winning trophies, but could they win us the league with Woodward and co? I doubt it

 

[croadyman]

Fergie coming in to defend him just shows how dreadfully we are run

 

[largelyworried]

If the board have lost faith in Ole, three games won't save him. No credible organisation works that way.
I simply think the club have given themselves time to look for a replacement.

If Ole wins the next three games, or even just the City game, with the crowd bouncing and singing his name, they will not be able to sack him. If they're really wanting to get rid, then they're basically hoping he loses or they won't be able to.

 

[Adisa]

Why not? The end result is likely to be the same. Three losses. But at least it will be statement of intent from the Board.

Only fans care about "statement of intent". What difference does it make if Ole or Carrick oversee three loses on the bounce?
If the club wanted Conte, Ole would have been sacked by now.
From my pov, it's quite clear the candidates the club would like are under contract. The sensible thing to do is not rush a decision while you work things out.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Where are those posters that wanted Liverpool to hammer them so Ole would be sacked?

 

[glazed]

Mad people think we just drop in Conte in and it's done deal, these titles don't grow on trees.

Sadly these mad people are a huge chunk of the fanbase and if they think it then they pay up. That's all that matters to the functioning of the Glazer business model, so long as we are actually winning enough games to make it vaguely credible.

That's why it matters to make mad fans realise there is a much deeper structural issue than Ole. And that message now seems to be growing very loud.

 

[Lentwood]

I don't think Moyes and Mourinho was backed enough and to me it's obvious for many.

Moyes had a champions winning squad, but that was aging squad that definitely needed reinforcement to stay on top. I wouldn't say he was backed enough - that of course doesn't mean he did shit and underperformed with what he had available.

Jose as well - he wasn't backed with the players he wanted after the season he finished 2nd. Again that doesn't mean he did the right thing stinking up the place and falling out with everybody.

Ole on the other hand I'd say was fully backed - hence spending the most under him (in a corona struck windows no less) and having a huge wage bill for some of our players.

But...we've been through this...Jose spent £283m net. How can that amount to 'not being backed'?

I don't care to be honest. As another poster said, I can't be bothered to keep raking up the past.

I just wish there could be some perspective on here at times. Everything is either total garbage or amazing, never anything in-between.

Case in point, the difference for you between 'not backed' and 'fully backed' is about £40m....and in fact, I think Ole has managed one more window

 

[Tom Van Persie]

That support was evident through Ferguson's attendance at training as the players returned on Tuesday, with the former manager and current director present alongside ex-club chairman Martin Edwards. It's understood that the pair were there for non-footballing reasons, and were not involved in the training session that Solskjaer took.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I also don't see the good in sacking him now and keeping Carrick as caretaker for those three games.

I previously would have agreed. In fact, right up until the Leicester game I was of the opinion that he should see out the season, but we should be making contingency plans. But enough is enough.

Monday was the absolute perfect time to sack him. We had just been utterly humiliated by Liverpool at OT which completed a run of 4 points from 15 in the league. Yes, Carrick or whoever, taking over is far from ideal but giving him '3 games' is complicating things. He's going to go into survival mode now and do whatever he thinks necessary not to lose. Even if we get a couple of decent results over the next 3 games, it's clear as day he's not the right man. Worse still, he appears to have lost an element of the dressing room, so it's totally counterproductive keeping him on. The whole situation is beyond farcical.

 

[Chip]

The state of this fecking club. Our CEO (s?) are accountants without no clue about football. And on the other side there is so much nepotism and "protecting your mates". From Ole, Fergie, Carrick, Phelan, Fletcher to Neville, Rio etc. in the media. And that's without mentioning out owners...

 

[Van Piorsing]

Fergie coming in to defend him just shows how dreadfully we are run

SAF always cares, but in the same time it doesn't sit with me well too, especially with all health issues he had to combat last years.

Is there anyone who really can lead this club ? ...because right now looks like Ole's hiding behind SAF in face of out of control situation.

 

[red4ever 79]

I've been a fan of what Ole has done and is trying to do with us, but he has been here a while now and he's always divided the fan base, the scrutiny and pressure in this job will always be ten times worse than others.

It looks right now, like it's a matter of time.

I think Ole's biggest downfall in all honesty is being too nice and trusting the players too much.

Ole is the only manager post Fergie who looked to have some clue in the transfer market. He's had 4 managers worth of players signed for different styles and a disjointed balance in the squad. Ole hasn't nailed the squad yet - but realistically he was never going too.

To do the work he has done with the current set up has to be seen as a positive. He's also tried to install a new culture within the club - again trying to integrate youth players, new signings and 4 managers worth of players before him into one vision is a pretty big task.

To an extent - i'd say he has succeeded there. No squad is perfect but overall he's made positive changes.

On paper, we have a superb x11 and a decent squad. There are glaring issue's with the squad but it's telling that we are underperforming so regularly.

We have a young, perhaps too inexperienced coaching set up. We seem slow to react tactically and our players are almost certain to make individual errors at some point.

If we dismiss Ole and hire Conte (as an example) is that really the answer? He'd be working within the same constraints as Ole.

We are so far behind on the football pitch to so many big clubs, we looked championship level against Liverpool, but the way we run the club is so dated and old school. We've been left behind and I wouldn't even say the stuff we see on the pitch is the worst of it.

Our owners are far from ideal. Woodward is a shambles. We have no structure, no idealogy. No clear vision. If City got rid of Pep, then they'd bring in a similar style and they're next manager would work to they're structure and set up. Arteta is trying to bring that to Arsenal, Tuchel likewise to Chelsea.

We would just jump to a different style, new coaches new vision and repeat the same cycle as we always do. We're pretty abject in this regard.

Ultimately, Ole will only be dismissed because of two reasons
1) Results
2) Player revolt

Number 2 worries me. Once you lose the dressing room, that's it. Game over. Manager has no chance.
The players haven't exactly covered themselves in glory lately and we have some big ego's in there.

Personally, I see no value in Ole going now. There isn't a short term fix. I said the same when Poch was being highly touted - what's the point in this set up that we have? So we can repeat every 2 years because we dont learn or evolve with modern day football?

If we went drastic or bold i'd be for it - a whole change to our set up/coaching/DOF etc. It's the only logical conclusion. Like one of the German models.

Replacing Ole for Conte or Zidane just seems pointless to me. Yes Conte and Zidane have better pedigree at winning trophies, but could they win us the league with Woodward and co? I doubt it

Surely you have that the wrong way round

 

[red4ever 79]

Funny how the percentage of votes for sacking Ole is slowly but steadily getting lower, btw.

I wouldn't worry. That's just SAF and Martin Edwards signing up to the caf today

 

[Drifter]

Fergie coming in to defend him just shows how dreadfully we are run

It seems to be all about nostalgia, and it works.

 

[PlayerOne]

Can't help but lose bit of respect for Ole as a coach when you rely on your former manager to come to training and speak to the players. What's next, Fergie selecting the team and tactics. It's bound to happen.

That's why I never wanted a former player as a manager here and not one who's very friendly with the likes of Fletcher.

What difference does winning the next 3 games even make? He's not good enough, it's that simple

 

[Valar Morghulis]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1635252892

So Fergie had Ronaldo over his knee while Martin Edwards disciplined Pogba. Promising.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

And if we somehow let's say get two wins and a draw out of those 3? I reckon our inept Board stick with him. Nothing good will come out of keeping him for 3 games.

This.

 

[Flytan]

And if we somehow let's say get two wins and a draw out of those 3? I reckon our inept Board stick with him. Nothing good will come out of keeping him for 3 games.

Yup, I am legitimately thinking it's best for this club if we lose games. I'm actually close to thinking that I want us to lose so we can get rid of this nightmare.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

 

[Highfather_24]

I'm not dodging the question, I'm saying I'd rather the club be patient and find the right man for the job rather than appoint the only person currently without a job. Hiring the wrong man is far more damaging to the club than waiting until the end of the season. Either way, you don't seem to want to understand that so there's no use in labouring the point any further.

The point is there is no "right man". Because I've asked you 3-4 times now to mention this right man, and you have failed to do so. It should be very easy to do considering the lack of proven top managers who also play the brand of football you want.

Edit : I find it laughable that you think Conte would do more damage to the club than Ole is doing right now in the next few months.

 

[RedOldBoy]

Where are those posters that wanted Liverpool to hammer them so Ole would be sacked?

I would argue that these posters are not real supporters

 

[Pretzels81]

It must be done; like Michael did with Fredo.

 

[yipthatman]

Funny how the percentage of votes for sacking Ole is slowly but steadily getting lower, btw.

It's actually going up mate. It was 12.3% yesterday, now it's 12.7%. I reckon its oppo fans.

 

[golden_blunder]

I'm sick of this. I will stay off the forums for a while. No point.

No point in what? Should we allow childish name calling?

 

[Zen86]

The point is there is no "right man". Because I've asked you 3-4 times now to mention this right man, and you have failed to do so. It should be very easy to do considering the lack of proven top managers who also play the brand of football you want.

Whoosh.

 

[Atheist]

Why is Fergie getting involved in the executive decision making of the club? He’s a legend of course, but he got the Moyes decision wrong and his judgment of managers in general won’t be objective (as he was a manager himself).

 

[Pretzels81]

Why is Fergie getting involved in the executive decision making of the club? He’s a legend of course, but he got the Moyes decision wrong and his judgment of managers in general won’t be objective (as he was a manager himself).

Is he vetoing the sacking of Ole???

 

[Judas]

You have to question the judgement of anyone happy to see Ole manage another game for us really.

 

[Rolaholic]

We are exactly that. A club and fanbase still living in history, thinking we can manage to replicate Sir Alex, when it's close to impossible to do so.

It's good to have players and coaches who were part of our winning squads, but if they are not performing well, we need to get rid. All the United pundits still want Ole to keep his position. They would have hounded any other coach by this time.

Agreed as we're the only big club left where the manager is constantly put up on a giant pedestal irregardless of results when they're just another employee at every other club.

Just look at people like Neville and top reds who deify the manager and blame everyone and their mother under the sun before them when things get tough with the whole 'JUST BACK THE MANAGER' crap.

You don't see managers lasting more than 3 years at most big clubs nowadays unless they're building something truly special like Pep or Klopp. The most successful clubs over the last decade haven't had any qualms over cutting bait soon as things are trending backwards yet the club loves to drag things out as long as possible and give chance after chance even as things become inevitable.

I adore Fergie for all he did but he also seriously warped/fecked the club and the fanbases expectations for a manager and views of what a manager represents. You're never going to get decades-long managerial dynasties where the manager is the end all be all again the same way we're never going to see someone last as long as Wenger did either. That's a bygone era now and everyone in the football world seems to know it but the club and fanbase.

Managers aren't Gods the same way that players aren't either, they're just another cog in the machine albeit very important ones, but clubs are bigger than them and most serious ones act like it

 

[Highfather_24]

I'm taking a massive guess here, but he prob thinking we up against 3 of the best teams in Europe, and 3 best managers about, to win them league titles, so he doubtful it's a done deal with the tweak of the manager.

Mad people think we just drop in Conte in and it's done deal, these titles don't grow on trees.

There is no manager in the world who we can get, with whom it will be a "done deal" or even close to a "done deal". Conte is one of the few managers who have a very good winning track record, Simeone and Zidane(he doesnt want to come here) are others.

 

[Handsome Devil]

Funny how the percentage of votes for sacking Ole is slowly but steadily getting lower, btw.

And the more important majority of Out voters is getting higher.

 

[Ralph1386]

Fergie coming in to defend him just shows how dreadfully we are run

Can't help but lose bit of respect for Ole as a coach when you rely on your former manager to come to training and speak to the players. What's next, Fergie selecting the team and tactics. It's bound to happen.

That's why I never wanted a former player as a manager here and not one who's very friendly with the likes of Fletcher.

What difference does winning the next 3 games even make? He's not good enough, it's that simple

If all this is true, I can’t comprehend how a person of SAF’s intelligence would even involve himself in this circus-like situation.

What would he have thought if Sir Bobby had come to one if his trainings when he was the boss to “protect” him?

 

[Highfather_24]

Whoosh.

Insane that you want us to keep Ole till the end of the season and waste it, because Conte will apparently come in and cause far more damage than Ole(despite being 10 times the manager he is). And that next summer suddenly the "right manager" will spontaneously materialize out of thin air and take our club to glory. Delusional stuff.

 

[beer&grill]

I also don't see the good in sacking him now and keeping Carrick as caretaker for those three games.

The good is that we’d be certain we will have a new manager. Stick with Ole while he luckboxes a few points from the next games and the inept board will revert to thinking he has done a phenomenal job.