Ole has no system that I can see ..... or do I just need better glasses?

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

The CAF have short memories

And they're all professional football coaches who KNOW (not think) that our issues are down to Oles coaching and tactics.

Today was a poor performance, we got 3 points, I'll see what we're like in 10-20 games

 

[glazed]

> Fire Woody
> Move Ole to head of recruitment
> Hire a competent coach

In that order

1. Boycott the club and cut off their revenue. That means every Manchester United fan cancelling legal pay TV subscriptions too. Not buying merchandise. Not spending money of any kind that might reach the Glazers. Force the Glazers to sell to decent owners. Every penny they leech comes from us.

2. Fire Woodward. Fire Ole.

3. Bring in a DoF that can attract a top coach like Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Low, Flick, Poch?, Nagelsman etc. Someone who actually understands modern high press game.

4. Hire non-top coach to rebuild within new strategy. Maybe Poch.

5. Buy players in that strategy.

6. Bring in top coach.

7. Win league.

The only hard bit on the list is the first one and that's in our hands. If the fans can collectively will it, then it will happen.

 

[Glorio]

Teams have realised that if they attack us we can counter attack them and hurt them. So they do not leave space behind their defence and they have wised up. Just like today's goal by Rashford.

They realised that by December lasted year and caused us all sorts of problems. The 16 games referred to came after teams had wisened up, and we still went on the run.

We're still in pre season form incidentally. Regardless of system, if you're giving away 5 yard passes, you'll struggle

 

[hungrywing]

1. Boycott the club and cut off their revenue. That means every Manchester United fan cancelling legal pay TV subscriptions too. Not buying merchandise. Not spending money of any kind that might reach the Glazers. Force the Glazers to sell to decent owners. Every penny they leech comes from us.

2. Fire Woodward. Fire Ole.

3. Bring in a DoF that can attract a top coach like Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Low, Flick, Poch?, Nagelsman etc. Someone who actually understands modern high press game.

4. Hire non-top coach to rebuild within new strategy. Maybe Poch.

5. Buy players in that strategy.

6. Bring in top coach.

7. Win league.

The only hard bit on the list is the first one and that's in our hands. If the fans can collectively will it, then it will happen.

Yep.

(Step 1 will take a while)

(Also there are circumstances in which Ole can stay)

 

[Andycoleno9]

> Fire Woody
> Move Ole to head of recruitment
> Hire a competent coach

In that order

After he signed for fortune slowest defender in the world, full back who can't control the ball and winger who can't dribble, pass, cross and shoot, you want him as DoF?
Enough with this nepotism ffs. Just hire for every job people who have quality for that job.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Seriously worried that there is still no identity to our play. Might take some more weeks and I will take any kind of result at this point.

 

[Foxbatt]

You have to blame his coaches too and yes the buck stops with him but the coaches are part of the team and he needs help from them too. It is a disgrace the way we play. Someone is in charge of the defensive coaching and I think it is not Ole but we conceded the same goal today that we conceded against Palace. Not only that time after time Solly got behind our defence and AWB nor did any of our players thought about it. Eventually he got through. It did not matter if it was Lindelof or Bailly in that position, they still got the cross in.

 

[devilish]

What worries me is that every new player we buy start well and then descend to the shitters. AWB was difficult to see him play today and Bruno hasn't impressed for a long tim. Which really makes me wonder if its down to attitude or training.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

After he signed for fortune slowest defender in the world, full back who can't control the ball and winger who can't dribble, pass, cross and shoot, you want him as DoF?
Enough with this nepotism ffs. Just hire for every job people who have quality for that job.

This./

 

[devilish]

After he signed for fortune slowest defender in the world, full back who can't control the ball and winger who can't dribble, pass, cross and shoot, you want him as DoF?
Enough with this nepotism ffs. Just hire for every job people who have quality for that job.

this.

 

[gajender]

> Fire Woody
> Move Ole to head of recruitment
> Hire a competent coach

In that order

How can anybody want that after we have wasted 130m on defenders who have no standout attributes, Ole's recruitment has been the biggest let down for us .

 

[Sereques]

It's not a lack of tactics or whatever you want to call it. Every team in the premier league right now if fitter than us because we had the worst preseason.

 

[Flytan]

I wanted him fired last season but after the miracle 4th place just give him the season. If we end up 4th with only struggling against teams better than us for the most part (City and Liverpool are obviously better, Chelsea is a toss up). But if we finish behind Arsenal, even if we don't sign anyone else, he needs to go. We have a better squad than Arsenal, Spurs, Everton etc. and if the manager can't beat them, he's not good enough. Of course Woodward needs to be fired yesterday, but that won't happen so we need to be realistic.

 

[izec]

Park the bus and counter attack. Bruno made this work better for a bit, but he adapted to the shitty level now.

coaching? What is that?

Even looking clueless defensively now. We were never that good as people suggested, only a matter of time until it’s getting exposed. Here we are.

 

[Russky14]

Park the bus and counter attack. Bruno made this work better for a bit, but he adapted to the shitty level now.

coaching? What is that?

Even looking clueless defensively now. We were never that good as people suggested, only a matter of time until it’s getting exposed. Here we are.

Counter attack football is yesterday philosophy. Ok u can use here & there but it has been the high press for the last 5 years & whatever flavour that is Pep Klopp or newer coaches. But our clueless CEO appoints dinosaurs & then a rookie.

What a disastrous mess.

 

[Untd55]

We are a counter-attacking side, which isn't good enough for a club like ours. That is a small club mentality.

We created no chances yesterday until Brighton pinned us in our half and we were able to counter. Our forwards (Rashford mainly) somehow kept us in the game (and goalpost at the other end). It is purely pace and finishing that is getting us goals at the moment. Our actual team play is shockingly bad. Defence, Midfield, and Attack (when facing a packed defence) seem to have no idea what to do.

The only player who seems to really be able to pull something out of the bag is Fernandes. His contribution to our goals (in terms of goals and assists only) is over 50%, which is insanely high for a club like Manutd, If he doesn't do something, we don't score. That is not a sign of a good team; that is the sign of a good individual.

We parked the bus yesterday, having 8 players in the box and having to bring on another centre-back against Brighton. This is nowhere near good enough. And I do not buy the excuse about match fitness; no club has had a proper preseason.

 

[sugar_kane]

Park the bus and counter attack. Bruno made this work better for a bit, but he adapted to the shitty level now.

coaching? What is that?

Even looking clueless defensively now. We were never that good as people suggested, only a matter of time until it’s getting exposed. Here we are.

If you’re basing this on the first two games, it’s probably worth pointing out that we’re the team that plays in red.

Yes there are tactical issues but to say we’re a park the bus/counter attacking team is just plain wrong.

Perhaps we’ve done it against some of the tougher teams but there is no shame in that - we’ve also won a huge chunk of those games.

 

[FatherWolff]

If you’re basing this on the first two games, it’s probably worth pointing out that we’re the team that plays in red.

Yes there are tactical issues but to say we’re a park the bus/counter attacking team is just plain wrong.

Perhaps we’ve done it against some of the tougher teams but there is no shame in that - we’ve also won a huge chunk of those games.

It is very wrong. We had to do something yesterday as they made to many chances down the right side. And we did. Even then they scored from a right side mistake.. The players are of the pace. It is to be expected at this moment in time. Just watch Real Madrid of Dortmund yesterday. Off the pace. No patterns of play (as people cry about) individual mistakes. Low energy.. etc. We are two games in a very strange season with no pre season. People need to chill.

 

[Untd55]

If you’re basing this on the first two games, it’s probably worth pointing out that we’re the team that plays in red.

Yes there are tactical issues but to say we’re a park the bus/counter attacking team is just plain wrong.

Perhaps we’ve done it against some of the tougher teams but there is no shame in that - we’ve also won a huge chunk of those games.

What else was the Brighton game then? We were dominated and pinned in our own half. Against Brighton, we had our box packed with players and had to bring on another centre-back to defend against them. That is the definition of parking the bus.

The last 20 minutes, they had over 60% possession. We parked the bus, there is no denying it.

The Crystal Palace game wasn't any better. We parked the bus, just in the middle of the pitch. Solskjaer learned yesterday and put the bus in the box.

 

[sugar_kane]

What else was the Brighton game then? We were dominated and pinned in our own half. Against Brighton, we had our box packed with players and had to bring on another centre-back to defend against them. That is the definition of parking the bus.

The last 20 minutes, they had over 60% possession. We parked the bus, there is no denying it.

The Crystal Palace game wasn't any better. We parked the bus, just in the middle of the pitch. Solskjaer learned yesterday and put the bus in the box.

My understanding of park the bus is to consciously sit back with nearly every player behind the ball and let the opposition have possession.

We were pinned back yesterday because Brighton were attacking well and because of our deranged insistence on playing out from the back which invites loads of pressure.

I’m not saying we played well, I’m just disagreeing that our tactics are sit back and counter.

Our tactics seem to be to retain possession and to build from the back, we’re just crap at it/don’t have the right personnel.

 

[Bestietom]

What worries me is that every new player we buy start well and then descend to the shitters. AWB was difficult to see him play today and Bruno hasn't impressed for a long tim. Which really makes me wonder if its down to attitude or training.

Yes, I feel the same way. Drop a few of them, until the start playing up to standard.

 

[mancan92]

My understanding of park the bus is to consciously sit back with nearly every player behind the ball and let the opposition have possession.

We were pinned back yesterday because Brighton were attacking well and because of our deranged insistence on playing out from the back which invites loads of pressure.

I’m not saying we played well, I’m just disagreeing that our tactics are sit back and counter.

Our tactics seem to be to retain possession and to build from the back, we’re just crap at it/don’t have the right personnel.

You've literally destroyed your own point by only vaguely being able to describe one aspect of tactics which you even said "seem to be" shows that you also have no idea. After a year and half that's ridiculous to not have clear ideals.

 

[devilish]

Yes, I feel the same way. Drop a few of them, until the start playing up to standard.

I find that particularly concerning as it's seem inheritable from manager to manager. It actually got worse when SAF left, it remained constant when Moyes, LVG and Mou got sacked, it is still persistent under Ole's admin and therefore I won't be surprised if it remains after Ole is gone. Players seem to lose fitness and form easily, players seem to vanish in the treatment room never to be seen again and players seem to reach 'retirement' age ridiculously early (DDG and Mata for example). I feel that the coaching/fitness section alongside that with the DOF need to be revamped way before we consider replacing the manager.

 

[Skills]

I find that particularly concerning as it's seem inheritable from manager to manager. It actually got worse when SAF left, it remained constant when Moyes, LVG and Mou got sacked, it is still persistent under Ole's admin and therefore I won't be surprised if it remains after Ole is gone. Players seem to lose fitness and form easily, players seem to vanish in the treatment room never to be seen again and players seem to reach 'retirement' age ridiculously early (DDG and Mata for example). I feel that the coaching/fitness section alongside that with the DOF need to be revamped way before we consider replacing the manager.

It's because we've hired shit managers, it's that simple.

Moyes was shown to be woefully out of his depth when he went to La Liga, he's been sacked once already by West Ham and now they've only keep him on as they want someone to scrape PL football for them.

Van Gaal is retired now but he'd be managing somewhere in NL if he was still around. Mourinho's best offer after United was Lyon until Tottenham decided to sack Poch.

Ole will be back in Norway - he was way out of his depth at Cardiff in both the PL and the championship.

 

[devilish]

It's because we've hired shit managers, it's that simple.

Moyes was shown to be woefully out of his depth when he went to La Liga, he's been sacked once already by West Ham and now they've only keep him on as they want someone to scrape PL football for them.

Van Gaal is retired now but he'd be managing somewhere in NL if he was still around. Mourinho's best offer after United was Lyon until Tottenham decided to sack Poch.

Ole will be back in Norway - he was way out of his depth at Cardiff in both the PL and the championship.

Our fitness levels were already on the way down during Sir Alex time. The twins, Jones and Smalling would vanish in the treatment room for long spells, our football's performances was on the wane etc. Then Moyes came in and things nosedived. LVG brought in a change which was positive at the beginning but went to the shitters later on. The same happened with Mourinho and again with Ole. So are we so unlucky to have 4 managers who have no clue in terms of fitness levels,training etc? Or is it more the case that football is far more complex today then in the good old times were managers supervised everything?

Irrespective of that we hired Ole knowing fully well that he was an inexperienced manager who needed ample help. So not providing such help is basically setting him to fail.

 

[UnitedSofa]

How can anybody want that after we have wasted 130m on defenders who have no standout attributes, Ole's recruitment has been the biggest let down for us .

Oh how the mighty have fallen

Plenty of fans on here have said the complete opposite.

Maguire may get a lot of slack but we've conceded far less since he's been brought in

Bruno. Enough said.
AWB best RB we've had in years.
Dan James promising emerging talent
VDB - Looking like a fantastic signing after showing flashes of brilliance.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Our fitness levels were already on the way down during Sir Alex time. The twins, Jones and Smalling would vanish in the treatment room for long spells, our football's performances was on the wane etc. Then Moyes came in and things nosedived. LVG brought in a change which was positive at the beginning but went to the shitters later on. The same happened with Mourinho and again with Ole. So are we so unlucky to have 4 managers who have no clue in terms of fitness levels,training etc? Or is it more the case that football is far more complex today then in the good old times were managers supervised everything?

Irrespective of that we hired Ole knowing fully well that he was an inexperienced manager who needed ample help. So not providing such help is basically setting him to fail.

We hired Ole because of a knee jerk reaction from the club. He was never meant to be our full time manager but his initial results got him the job even though the club should of waited until the end of the season.

It's true what you say about fitness levels dropping under SAF but that could easy be put down to an aging squad and our manager not being as fully motivated as in previous seasons.

Moyes, being the first manager after the great man was always going to be on a hiding to nothing. He inherited this aging squad and just didn't have the know how on how to dismantle it and rebuild. He didnt have the respect with the players to make it work.

With VG and Mou there was no lea way with them. It was their way or no way. They were too rigid for United and if players aren't 100% behind the manager then once again it was never going to work.

When Ole came in he must of been like a breathe of fresh air to the players after the rigidity of Mou and that showed in his first 2 months at the club but after the initial bedding in process ended the players once again reverted back to their going through the motions performances.

Bringing players up to fitness levels is one of the easiest jobs a manager has if the players buy into it. What we are missing is making our players mentally strong and this is why (for me) Ole won't make it as a top level coach. Teams have to go out on to the pitch fired up, thinking they're invincible which is where managers like SAF and Klopp excel. All the players know exactly what's expected of them. With us if teams let us play we can punish them because we do have a very good team but if they step on our toes we crumble which has happened on so many occasions. Fitness is nothing if we don't have the mental strength to go with it.

 

[glazed]

Yes there are tactical issues but to say we’re a park the bus/counter attacking team is just plain wrong.

We aren't even that coherent unfortunately. We are defensively unorganised or badly organsed . In attack we are relying on flair, not positional coaching. And god knows what that midfield is supposed to be. Old man Matic shuffling about on his zimmer trying to shield so that Bruno and Pogba can run around and do what they like.

 

[Buster15]

How can anybody want that after we have wasted 130m on defenders who have no standout attributes, Ole's recruitment has been the biggest let down for us .

Don't necessarily agree regarding recruitment. Overall it has been quite good.
But it is what happens after they join us that is the problem.
They all start well. Even James. But there is a fundamental problem after that initial period.
There could be a number of causes. But it is about time that our coaching staff started to improve players. As opposed to spending millions on new signings, only for them to go backwards.

 

[VorZakone]

Oh how the mighty have fallen

Plenty of fans on here have said the complete opposite.

Maguire may get a lot of slack but we've conceded far less since he's been brought in

Bruno. Enough said.
AWB best RB we've had in years.
Dan James promising emerging talent
VDB - Looking like a fantastic signing after showing flashes of brilliance.

Dan James is bang average. Only bad signing there.

 

[xanderman]

We will find form and find fitness, play well for a period then inevitably we will tire out again and perform below expectation.

That's simply due to poor coaching/tactics.

When that happens, you will have the 'Ole is doing a decent job, the players are playing poorly or not putting in the effort, the board need to sanction £200m, they're hanging Ole out to dry' here bs.

The issue isn't the 'effort'. You can see our players sprinting and making high intensity runs for balls in transition defending and attacking. The problem it's a lot of wasteful energy.

We're making half hearted unorganised presses in their half, then when they play through us, we're making 10-30 yards dashes to get behind the ball. Then when we have the ball, we're shit at getting it up the pitch without some individual flair, so we hoof it up or lose it in their half then, sprint back to prevent the counter. Rinse repeat.

Lots of lateral movement with and without the ball that doesn't get us anywhere. We defend and attack with massive amounts of energy with little end product.

This is just not sustainable.

This is completely true. We cannot just keep buying world class players to improve the team. Football has changed a lot in the last decade. The teams that do well are the teams that have system of play. A system that constitutes, well rehearsed movements and patterns.

If we cannot get the best of our current squad, why would you invest in the squad?

 

[Bestietom]

This is completely true. We cannot just keep buying world class players to improve the team. Football has changed a lot in the last decade. The teams that do well are the teams that have system of play. A system that constitutes, well rehearsed movements and patterns.

If we cannot get the best of our current squad, why would you invest in the squad?

Yep, don't know who is coaching our defence.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Yeah... I'd maybe get glasses asap.

 

[Irwin99]

Very solid defence (when playing with two DMs to cover the spaces) with two very competent defensive fullbacks, midfield stays compact, wins the ball, lightning quick counter. Get the first goal and then encourage the oppo team to attack and leave more space. Counter again. Works a treat...

...until another manager decides he's not falling for it, closes the spaces to run into, and matches us with a solid defensive shape. Then our teams lack of movement and generally pretty average technique gets exposed and we end up looking for a flash of brilliance for inspiration. The system works much better against teams where we are the underdog and where we can be plucky. Against teams we're expected to beat it does look a bit clueless.

 

[DSG]

Very solid defence (when playing with two DMs to cover the spaces) with two very competent defensive fullbacks, midfield stays compact, wins the ball, lightning quick counter. Get the first goal and then encourage the oppo team to attack and leave more space. Counter again. Works a treat...

...until another manager decides he's not falling for it, closes the spaces to run into, and matches us with a solid defensive shape. Then our teams lack of movement and generally pretty average technique gets exposed and we end up looking for a flash of brilliance for inspiration. The system works much better against teams where we are the underdog and where we can be plucky. Against teams we're expected to beat it does look a bit clueless.

Disturbed that Ole & Carrick didn't move to a 3-5-2 at the half, bringing on Tuanzebe and adding another midfielder. I thought it was fairly obvious that we had a hard time with the press.

 

[AneRu]

We will find form and find fitness, play well for a period then inevitably we will tire out again and perform below expectation.

That's simply due to poor coaching/tactics.

When that happens, you will have the 'Ole is doing a decent job, the players are playing poorly or not putting in the effort, the board need to sanction £200m, they're hanging Ole out to dry' here bs.

The issue isn't the 'effort'. You can see our players sprinting and making high intensity runs for balls in transition defending and attacking. The problem it's a lot of wasteful energy.

We're making half hearted unorganised presses in their half, then when they play through us, we're making 10-30 yards dashes to get behind the ball. Then when we have the ball, we're shit at getting it up the pitch without some individual flair, so we hoof it up or lose it in their half then, sprint back to prevent the counter. Rinse repeat.

Lots of lateral movement with and without the ball that doesn't get us anywhere. We defend and attack with massive amounts of energy with little end product.

This is just not sustainable.

Sorry for taking you back two months but this is the truth, we have enough individual quality to get great results especially when our backs are against the wall but we aren't drilled enough in any particular system to play coherent football over a stretch of several games.

 

[Ludens the Red]

We will find form and find fitness, play well for a period then inevitably we will tire out again and perform below expectation.

That's simply due to poor coaching/tactics.

When that happens, you will have the 'Ole is doing a decent job, the players are playing poorly or not putting in the effort, the board need to sanction £200m, they're hanging Ole out to dry' here bs.

The issue isn't the 'effort'. You can see our players sprinting and making high intensity runs for balls in transition defending and attacking. The problem it's a lot of wasteful energy.

We're making half hearted unorganised presses in their half, then when they play through us, we're making 10-30 yards dashes to get behind the ball. Then when we have the ball, we're shit at getting it up the pitch without some individual flair, so we hoof it up or lose it in their half then, sprint back to prevent the counter. Rinse repeat.

Lots of lateral movement with and without the ball that doesn't get us anywhere. We defend and attack with massive amounts of energy with little end product.

This is just not sustainable.

Just so so apt...

 

[Bubz27]

I've had laser eye surgery and I still don't see anything.

45 minutes into the season and the knee jerking already started.

Also, this isn't personal to you pal. But I'm tired of people calling it kneejerk too. I'm only quoting you because I did before.

He had us in relegation form 12 months ago too.

He's a lovely bloke and I'd love him to do well here, would love to see Fergie handing him a trophy. But it won't happen. He doesn't have it. He's done some necessary good here, but it's time for a step up.

 

[Asger]

Before I the game started I was sure both AWB and Shaw would be or weakest link in this system. In this game they both proved that as well. Just imagine having fullbacks like Robertson and Trent instead of them in a diamond system!

 

[Bestietom]

Each time we lose or draw on here, different areas of the field are at fault. Do you not think the blame lies with the manager and coaches for team selection and changes made during games.
We can go out and beat teams who have been in Champions League finals one day, and when it comes to the Premiership we change the team around, and get beaten in our own stadium.
I don't know what thought goes into the selection and system we keep changing, but we need to get a settled side out on that pitch quickly and be able to change things around when necessary, on the pitch. I can't see the reason Fred was taken off for Matic, unless it was because of the booking he received. Rashford was not playing well but he takes off Greenwood who was the only player looked like scoring. Pogba, I won't comment on, because I have not got the time to answer all his fans. Why why did we buy VdB if we are not going to play him.
Yes, Our manager and coaches should be answerable to these questions. We need consistency and a settled side and system ASAP.