Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Kush]

I feel like I'm in r/Donald with the amount of facts which are twisted just to suit a narrative and deflect any criticism.

Fair enough, you think that fans have an agenda against Ole and their words cannot be trusted. But, how about his own?

In the aftermath of Wolves game, he himself admitted that Rashford had been playing through a back injury 'for a while', and he only played him because we 'needed a win', and that it 'backfired'. It was clear then, that he had fecked up. The player, medical team and Ole were aware that Rashford is carrying a back injury. Do these people think Rashford went out on his own and bought that device from a pharmacy to help his back recuperate between games?

Henry Winter tweet confirms he had a single stress fracture from a while and he eventually suffered another after being played continuously. A manager has constant communication with the medical team regarding every player, in the end it's only the manager who can make that call whether to play the said player or not. You have to be utterly braindead to think they weren't aware about the extent of injury or what they were doing. Besides, this is not an isolated incident. We have precedents on the same issue, he rushed Pogba vs Rochdale because he was under immense pressure to get a result and it ended up with us only scraping a draw and Pogba injuring his ankle. Three days later, he played him again versus Arsenal at home. Again result was a draw but this time Pogba fecked his ankle and missed 4 months of football. Repeated the same with Maguire few weeks back, thankfully he didn't aggravate his injury too badly.

Going back to last season, he did the same with Lingard when he rushed him out at home to Liverpool, he got injured like 5 mins after coming on. I mean how many incidents do these people need before they realize that this has been a constant theme under Ole?

 

[Bilbo]

"We are rebuilding" is a good reason to explain our current results and performances but are we actually doing it well?

Yes - in fact I would say that we are ahead of schedule in most areas. The one area that we are not ahead of schedule is also the most important and most difficult of them all, and that is recruitment of players. I suspect the plan was always going to be 3 or 4 last summer and none expected in January, but injuries now dictate that we need to adapt that strategy and, given that we are even exploring the loan market, it seems the club has reached that point.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Yes - in fact I would say that we are ahead of schedule in most areas. The one area that we are not ahead of schedule is also the most important and most difficult of them all, and that is recruitment of players. I suspect the plan was always going to be 3 or 4 last summer and none expected in January, but injuries now dictate that we need to adapt that strategy and, given that we are even exploring the loan market, it seems the club has reached that point.

What?! Where would we be if we were behind schedule? Relegation zone?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

To be fair to @Regulus Arcturus Black you have to admire the dedication travelling from New York for every home game.

Eh? You been drinking @matt10000 ?

 

[matt10000]

Not doubting several good points you make about Ole but this also misses the main point. Ole can coach individuals but there is no coherence to the play. Poch's players improved immeasurably under him and he has an eye for a good deal. He coached the feck out of several players including Dele Alli. Erik Dier regressed because his immune system is fecked.

Re: Ole's coaching

Modern football is defined by the ability to link defence and attack. But watch United play and the only time we have ever showed that was actually under Van Gaal. I am convinced that the situation would have improved if we had better players under Van Gaal instead of Schweinstiger and Schneiderlin in midfieldbut then again Van Gaal hates working with stars and prefers kids who may or may not be up to it.

In every other season we have looked an incoherent mess for the most part. We have no set patterns or typical goals. Watch city or barca and they have some sort of 'typical' goal they score. The ball is pushed across the box and then sent across goal for a tap in etc. United used to do something like this under Fergie. Now it's gone. If you watch all the goals under Mourinho you'll note the absolute absence of an attacking plan. Defensively very coherent but going forward it depended on the player's invention.

That's because Mourinho is a reactionary coach who leaves it to his players to create. That's why he buys settled players in their mid 20s not youth who are prone to errors. A mourinho game invariably involves only a few chances that a seasoned pro puts away. It ends 1-0. It does not end 5-3.

Under Ole we don't have a reactionary coach per se but it is very hard to see what is happening. Sometimes we can't create a chance to save our lives. Part of it is coaching as there is seemingly no awareness of where someone has to run into space, or where they have to be for corners (Fred marking Van Dijk...) And some of it is a personnel issue.

Yes we spend plenty of money but that doesn't mean we buy quality. Instead we pay through the nose for dross or players who don't suit the team. I happen to think very highly of Juan Mata but he never suited the team. Fergie bought Veron and he was great but he didn't suit us so out he went.
Under Woodward, we'd have bought Riquelme just because he was on the market. It wouldn't matter that he would be utterly unsuited.

When we do buy quality they happen to be players who don't want to be at United either because they can't hack the pressure - Lukaku or other reasons - Angel Di Maria and Pogba. The only one who actually worked was Zlatan who is a champion.

Another reason we aren't fourth at least is the absence of depth. Now that's on Woodward but also Ole. He let Fellaini, Herrera and Lukaku go and drafted no one in as a replacement. He never agitated for it. Why? Look at our games. Our strikers score plenty but our midfield does nought. Fellani gave us 7 a season and who replaces that now? No one.

Poch did an exceptional job with Spurs. No he didn't win trophies but Spurs as a club have no serious history of winning. Is he 'generational' - whatever that is - ? Probably not. But he'd be a hell of a lot better than Ole. He's one of the most tactically astute managers in the game at a time when top coaches are a heck of a lot rarer than top clubs. He understands the basis of modern football far far better than Jose who right now looks like yesterday's man.

He didn't 'lose' his dressing room. They came to the end of their natural cycle and Levy refused to spend on alternatives to Kane. He began this season with 17 year old Tony Parrott as Llorente's replacement and Kane's backup. Arsenal bought Nicholas Pepe for £72m.
His defence was made up of Alderwireld (injury prone) and Vertonghen (32) and a want away left back. A goalie (lloris) who looks like he needs a new start and Dier and Wanyama who need replacing. Poch understood that. He got Ndombele which was great but he got injured.

No he's not perfect in the transfer market but who is? It's not a science.


As for making 4th place: We don't have a realistic chance. The league table is what Mourinho liked to call a 'false position'. We have Europa league games coming up. That will rip our season for good considering our current squad depth. The only reason Chelsea aren't out of sight is because Lampard is probably the only coach in the division worse than Ole but has better players.

Get your cv over to Woodward I reckon you would have a good chance

 

[dove]

I think the situations are different. Both Jose and LVG were immediately backed with vast sums of money. And they wasted it. That's my gripe with them. Their crap recruitment has set us back years. You simply can't make 15 bad signings and expect to get away with it. We are suffering now as a direct consequence of those signings. Winning a Europe League or an FA cup is no consolation when you waste nearly a billion and are left with a playing staff like ours. I'd list the signings but it honestly just fecking upsets my to go back through them. It's ruined us.

I'd take what Ole's done a hundred times over before go through LVG and Jose's reigns again. We've got rid of several of the bad characters and shit footballers, brought some kids through and signed 3 good players. If they'd just get the cheque book out and back Ole once like they did with the last two we might actually have something looking like a functional squad again within a couple of windows. But it doesn't seem to be happening.

My problem with that is Ole's signings are not better. James is simply not good enough and he won't be, we massively overpaid for him considering he came from Championship. Maguire is probably one of the worst defenders at the club. I couldn't care less about his passing or ball control skills, this guy simply cannot defend and is slower than a snail. £80m for him is a definition of wasting money. AWB - great defensively, even more useless going forward than Valencia which says a lot. So for all the talk about Ole's great signings, I think it's just a load of BS. Realistically looking, they have been very average.

 

[Bastian]

I feel like I'm in r/Donald with the amount of facts which are twisted just to suit a narrative and deflect any criticism.

Fair enough, you think that fans have an agenda against Ole and their words cannot be trusted. But, how about his own?

In the aftermath of Wolves game, he himself admitted that Rashford had been playing through a back injury 'for a while', and he only played him because we 'needed a win', and that it 'backfired'. It was clear then, that he had fecked up. The player, medical team and Ole were aware that Rashford is carrying a back injury. Do these people think Rashford went out on his own and bought that device from a pharmacy to help his back recuperate between games?

Henry Winter tweet confirms he had a single stress fracture from a while and he eventually suffered another after being played continuously. A manager has constant communication with the medical team regarding every player, in the end it's only the manager who can make that call whether to play the said player or not. You have to be utterly braindead to think they weren't aware about the extent of injury or what they were doing. Besides, this is not an isolated incident. We have precedents on the same issue, he rushed Pogba vs Rochdale because he was under immense pressure to get a result and it ended up with us only scraping a draw and Pogba injuring his ankle. Three days later, he played him again versus Arsenal at home. Again result was a draw but this time Pogba fecked his ankle and missed 4 months of football. Repeated the same with Maguire few weeks back, thankfully he didn't aggravate his injury too badly.

Going back to last season, he did the same with Lingard when he rushed him out at home to Liverpool, he got injured like 5 mins after coming on. I mean how many incidents do these people need before they realize that this has been a constant theme under Ole?

Wonder if his "backfired" thing was a black humour pun. Anyhow, agree with what you're saying here. McTominay a notable absentee from your summary, playing 40 mins with a serious injury. In all likelihood, Maguire is going to be playing with injections to manage the pain until he can't handle it any more. It's not like he'll get a rest in the summer.

 

[Bilbo]

I feel like I'm in r/Donald with the amount of facts which are twisted just to suit a narrative and deflect any criticism.

Fair enough, you think that fans have an agenda against Ole and their words cannot be trusted. But, how about his own?

In the aftermath of Wolves game, he himself admitted that Rashford had been playing through a back injury 'for a while', and he only played him because we 'needed a win', and that it 'backfired'. It was clear then, that he had fecked up. The player, medical team and Ole were aware that Rashford is carrying a back injury. Do these people think Rashford went out on his own and bought that device from a pharmacy to help his back recuperate between games?

Henry Winter tweet confirms he had a single stress fracture from a while and he eventually suffered another after being played continuously. A manager has constant communication with the medical team regarding every player, in the end it's only the manager who can make that call whether to play the said player or not. You have to be utterly braindead to think they weren't aware about the extent of injury or what they were doing. Besides, this is not an isolated incident. We have precedents on the same issue, he rushed Pogba vs Rochdale because he was under immense pressure to get a result and it ended up with us only scraping a draw and Pogba injuring his ankle. Three days later, he played him again versus Arsenal at home. Again result was a draw but this time Pogba fecked his ankle and missed 4 months of football. Repeated the same with Maguire few weeks back, thankfully he didn't aggravate his injury too badly.

Going back to last season, he did the same with Lingard when he rushed him out at home to Liverpool, he got injured like 5 mins after coming on. I mean how many incidents do these people need before they realize that this has been a constant theme under Ole?

Too much is being made of this. Players suffer injuries all the time. Are our players being overplayed? Probably yes, but lets look at yesterdays opponents as a comparison. Do you really think that Mane, Salah & Firmino are strolling through this season without picking up knocks and strains and sore muscles? There is absolutely no way that this is the case. Part of being a manager is taking risks on players at times, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. We have a manager that is honest enough to admit that this one backfired (although he did also say that it was a new injury, but hey) and that's okay. The keyboard warriors will want to crucify him for that but in reality its part of managing a sports team.

Unfortunately the gods seem to have decreed that we will face every difficult test imaginable over the course of this season. So be it.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

In January after their first Summers you wouldn’t have said that though, everyone loved Bailly, Miki had shown glimpses of settling in like Spurs at home. Pogba looked superb.

Same goes for LVG, everyone wanted Morgan, Shaw too, Blind looked an astute signing & Herrera.

Yet both were doing plenty better.

As I say, if you only want to see positives, that’s all you’ll see.


Explain please how someone who has stated dozens of times that he wouldn’t sack Ole right now is desperate for him to fail.

Seemed you were against him yesterday and comments of more chance of you winning the NY marathon than Ole winning a trophy this season doesn’t seem like your behind him.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I struggle to see how players who have failed here can be spun as positives. The money, opportunity cost, time wasted. They should have done so much more.

What?
I said in Jan of their first season we’d all have spun that, not now.
So what you’re spinning now might be completely different in 2 years when you’re shitting on the very same players and calling them deadwood.

 

[Bilbo]

What?! Where would we be if we were behind schedule? Relegation zone?

You are looking at results and league position and judging everything on that. This season is about more than that. The squad was a mess, and there was clearly a problem behind the scenes with mentality, culture, cohesion amongst the players, and a hundred other things we don't know about.

We were always looking at 2-3 seasons to clear up the mess made in the previous 5 years. The wage bill, players that needed to go, lack of leaders in the squad, lack of balance in the squad. Unless we had £400-500m sitting around last summer (SPOILER: we didn't) then it was a step by step process. Looking at what we had before versus what we have this morning I would say we are ahead of schedule. Lots of squad fat trimmed, wage bill in better shape, the group themselves seem much happier and appear to have the right mentality now. We just need to add quality & leadership.

Does that mean we increased our risk of having a difficult season? Absolutely. Get on board with that notion and suddenly everything is easier to digest, that much I promise you.

 

[SteveW]

What?
I said in Jan of their first season we’d all have spun that, not now.
So what you’re spinning now might be completely different in 2 years when you’re shitting on the very same players and calling them deadwood.

Comparing something that's happened to something YOU think might happen in the future. What's the point in that???? He could also win the league. Should we discuss that as well?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Seemed you were against him yesterday and comments of more chance of you winning the NY marathon than Ole winning a trophy this season doesn’t seem like your behind him.

I’m being realistic looking at our season so far. Do you think say, Sheffield United who’ve had a similar season to us could win the FA Cup and EL?

And I was behind him yesterday but I criticized him, you’re an absolute oddball if you think that means I want us to lose at Anfield.
I’ll repeat, I want us to win every single game, I want Ole to prove I’m just an idiot who couldn’t buy a clue.
You though, act like a bloody child to someone criticizing a season in which Manchester United have picked up a pathetic 34 points in 23 games.

Yet I’m not the real fan in your eyes? Delusion at his grandest ladies and gents. I however understand that fans who have nothing bad to say about Ole want the club to win just as much as those who expect soooo much much than this shitty season.

 

[BlueHaze]

I feel like I'm in r/Donald with the amount of facts which are twisted just to suit a narrative and deflect any criticism.

Fair enough, you think that fans have an agenda against Ole and their words cannot be trusted. But, how about his own?

In the aftermath of Wolves game, he himself admitted that Rashford had been playing through a back injury 'for a while', and he only played him because we 'needed a win', and that it 'backfired'. It was clear then, that he had fecked up. The player, medical team and Ole were aware that Rashford is carrying a back injury. Do these people think Rashford went out on his own and bought that device from a pharmacy to help his back recuperate between games?

Henry Winter tweet confirms he had a single stress fracture from a while and he eventually suffered another after being played continuously. A manager has constant communication with the medical team regarding every player, in the end it's only the manager who can make that call whether to play the said player or not. You have to be utterly braindead to think they weren't aware about the extent of injury or what they were doing. Besides, this is not an isolated incident. We have precedents on the same issue, he rushed Pogba vs Rochdale because he was under immense pressure to get a result and it ended up with us only scraping a draw and Pogba injuring his ankle. Three days later, he played him again versus Arsenal at home. Again result was a draw but this time Pogba fecked his ankle and missed 4 months of football. Repeated the same with Maguire few weeks back, thankfully he didn't aggravate his injury too badly.

Going back to last season, he did the same with Lingard when he rushed him out at home to Liverpool, he got injured like 5 mins after coming on. I mean how many incidents do these people need before they realize that this has been a constant theme under Ole?

There will always be people who defend him no matter what the feck he does. Rashford was grabbing his lower back after multiple sprints even at Burnley away. He's had this issue for quite some time and yet was not given a rest. Then fully aware of this the rocket scientist that is Ole decides to sub him on against Wolves only to make matters 10 times worse.

Some absolutely idiotic decisions made from Ole and our med team this season. Fire the fecking lot of them. Their daftness and incompetence may potentially have seriously damaged Rashford's future.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

If Ole gets to sign 18 first team players over the next few seasons I can see us improving a great deal as well. He's signed 3 so far and they've been good.

I don't doubt we will improve if we sign the 18 players. The question is will we able to compete for a season with City (under Pep) or Liverpool (under Klopp). To me the answer is no under Ole.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Did the same with Pogba too

Hes untouchable. Must be great working with no expectations.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Comparing something that's happened to something YOU think might happen in the future. What's the point in that???? He could also win the league. Should we discuss that as well?

That’s not what I’m saying at all man, but it’s lost on you so I give up.

 

[SteveW]

You are looking at results and league position and judging everything on that. This season is about more than that. The squad was a mess, and there was clearly a problem behind the scenes with mentality, culture, cohesion amongst the players, and a hundred other things we don't know about.

We were always looking at 2-3 seasons to clear up the mess made in the previous 5 years. The wage bill, players that needed to go, lack of leaders in the squad, lack of balance in the squad. Unless we had £400-500m sitting around last summer (SPOILER: we didn't) then it was a step by step process. Looking at what we had before versus what we have this morning I would say we are ahead of schedule. Lots of squad fat trimmed, wage bill in better shape, the group themselves seem much happier and appear to have the right mentality now. We just need to add quality & leadership.

Does that mean we increased our risk of having a difficult season? Absolutely. Get on board with that notion and suddenly everything is easier to digest, that much I promise you.

Spot on. As I said somewhere else I'd take this season a hundred times before I'd watch LVG and Jose ruin our squad again. For the first time in a long time we actually seem to be going in the right direction squad wise (albeit more slowly than any of us would like). 3 or 4 good signings, a few more lads phased out and continued progression of the youths and we will end up with quite a decent squad within the next 12 months. I greatly look forward to being proved right on this.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

I feel like I'm in r/Donald with the amount of facts which are twisted just to suit a narrative and deflect any criticism.

Fair enough, you think that fans have an agenda against Ole and their words cannot be trusted. But, how about his own?

In the aftermath of Wolves game, he himself admitted that Rashford had been playing through a back injury 'for a while', and he only played him because we 'needed a win', and that it 'backfired'. It was clear then, that he had fecked up. The player, medical team and Ole were aware that Rashford is carrying a back injury. Do these people think Rashford went out on his own and bought that device from a pharmacy to help his back recuperate between games?

Henry Winter tweet confirms he had a single stress fracture from a while and he eventually suffered another after being played continuously. A manager has constant communication with the medical team regarding every player, in the end it's only the manager who can make that call whether to play the said player or not. You have to be utterly braindead to think they weren't aware about the extent of injury or what they were doing. Besides, this is not an isolated incident. We have precedents on the same issue, he rushed Pogba vs Rochdale because he was under immense pressure to get a result and it ended up with us only scraping a draw and Pogba injuring his ankle. Three days later, he played him again versus Arsenal at home. Again result was a draw but this time Pogba fecked his ankle and missed 4 months of football. Repeated the same with Maguire few weeks back, thankfully he didn't aggravate his injury too badly.

Going back to last season, he did the same with Lingard when he rushed him out at home to Liverpool, he got injured like 5 mins after coming on. I mean how many incidents do these people need before they realize that this has been a constant theme under Ole?

Agree. The squad has been gutted and replacements haven't been made, but even though I'm minded not to blame Ole too much for that (as he surely wanted new players in summer and this month) he is to blame for flogging the balls off Pogba, Lingard and particularly Rashford. I don't care what kind of a patchwork team you need to put out in certain games, it makes no sense to work your better players until they break down with long term injuries. Bad luck plays a role for sure, and if we didn't have bad luck we'd have none at all just at the minute, but whichever way you look at it the squad has been poorly managed by Ole and his team.

 

[Kush]

Wonder if his "backfired" thing was a black humour pun. Anyhow, agree with what you're saying here. McTominay a notable absentee from your summary, playing 40 mins with a serious injury. In all likelihood, Maguire is going to be playing with injections to manage the pain until he can't handle it any more. It's not like he'll get a rest in the summer.

I'm not sure about what McTominays' injury was, only read some soundbites from Ole about how he wanted to play. Well, that's another one to the list.

Too much is being made of this. Players suffer injuries all the time. Are our players being overplayed? Probably yes, but lets look at yesterdays opponents as a comparison. Do you really think that Mane, Salah & Firmino are strolling through this season without picking up knocks and strains and sore muscles? There is absolutely no way that this is the case. Part of being a manager is taking risks on players at times, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. We have a manager that is honest enough to admit that this one backfired (although he did also say that it was a new injury, but hey) and that's okay. The keyboard warriors will want to crucify him for that but in reality its part of managing a sports team.

Unfortunately the gods seem to have decreed that we will face every difficult test imaginable over the course of this season. So be it.

Look, I'm not going to pretend I know everything about how players manage their body through a grueling season. I'm only commenting on what we know and what's available to us at hand, we will never be sure about if Rashford actually had a stress fracture in his back before the Wolves game. Ole said no, while Winter says yes. But, what we do know is that Rashford was struggling with his back for a while. A young kid like him and McTominay want to fight through the pain barrier, it's commendable to see that commitment as a fan. But, a manager also has a responsibility to ensure their well-being and not risk their careers in order to get a result.

I mean there is an Australian fast bowler by name of Pat Cummins, he suffered a stress fracture at age of 18. His injury was mis-managed by the medical staff and team management leading to another stress fracture a year later at age 19. Once again he was rushed back few months later which led to re-occurrence of that injury. 18 months later he would again suffer another stress fracture. You see the pattern here? If these things are not managed properly they can ruin several years of these athletes, or sometimes cripple their careers altogether. Thankfully, he's been playing regularly for past 3 years and has become one of the worlds' best but not everyone is that fortunate.

I love Rashford as a player, if there was a slight injury I can understand the management risking him. But not when the issue is of back, foot or an ankle. I mean we saw with Rooney ourselves, he broke his foot and was rushed back in time for WC which took away all his explosiveness. Same with the ankle injury sustained against Bayern, he himself admitted how he regretted that decision later which killed couple of more seasons at the top. Why are we still doing this to our players? Pogba, Maguire, McTominay can be cited as examples from this season alone. How can you not differentiate that with likes of Mane/Salah carrying slight knocks/strains or sore muscles?

 

[SteveW]

That’s not what I’m saying at all man, but it’s lost on you so I give up.

I get what you're saying. But its a poor line of thinking imo.

 

[matt10000]

Shut up with your utter moronic posting @fergiesarmy1
Gold ST holder here, so don’t try telling me that I want us to fecking lose, what an absolute clusterfeck of posting from yourself currently.

Cause there has never been a knobjockey of a united fan with a season ticket at old Trafford in all eternity

To be fair to @Regulus Arcturus Black you have to admire the dedication travelling from New York for every home game.

Eh? You been drinking @matt10000 ?

Apologies if I am being presumptuous but you live in New York and are a Gold season ticked holder so I assumed you were clocking up some air miles for the cause!

 

[SteveW]

I don't doubt we will improve if we sign the 18 players. The question is will we able to compete for a season with City (under Pep) or Liverpool (under Klopp). To me the answer is no under Ole.

You've nothing to base that on though. Why couldn't he? He's won the league with his last club. A lot of top managers win in a smaller league before progressing to a bigger one. It's a pretty normal progression isn't it?

 

[Enigma_87]

You've nothing to base that on though. Why couldn't he? He's won the league with his last club. A lot of top managers win in a smaller league before progressing to a bigger one. It's a pretty normal progression isn't it?

He didn't win it in his last stint. He was also fired in his previous but last stint. When he won it was 8 years ago.

Ole FC is going another level I see.. You are delusional if you even have a remote hope he can rival Pep or Klopp to the title.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Apologies if I am being presumptuous but you live in New York and are a Gold season ticked holder so I assumed you were clocking up some air miles for the cause!

If you think I live in New York from that then you’ve definitely been drinking @matt10000

If you’re questioning my status as a season ticket holder just try going into the ticketing thread on here, it will take you about one minute to see lots of posts from me regarding my tickets, when they are spare etc. and helping other fans out with information. My God I swear some of you lot who can’t criticize the manager or can’t even take any criticism toward the manager are like Donald fecking Trump fans, so desperate to believe in him that you'll twist anything you can, like when a poster states how absolutely dire 34 points from 23 games is into being a case of a fan who is "desperate for Ole to fail".

And hey man, let's doubt this guy is a season ticket holder cause that'll make me a funny smart arse and conform to my World view that real fans support Ole. They don't mate. Tonnes of real fans online, at home and at Old Trafford every week think he's doing a God awful job.

 

[TRUERED89]

My problem with that is Ole's signings are not better. James is simply not good enough and he won't be, we massively overpaid for him considering he came from Championship. Maguire is probably one of the worst defenders at the club. I couldn't care less about his passing or ball control skills, this guy simply cannot defend and is slower than a snail. £80m for him is a definition of wasting money. AWB - great defensively, even more useless going forward than Valencia which says a lot. So for all the talk about Ole's great signings, I think it's just a load of BS. Realistically looking, they have been very average.

£15m on James, how is that massively overpaying in this current market? I agree on the AWB/Valencia comment though!

 

[Bilbo]

Spot on. As I said somewhere else I'd take this season a hundred times before I'd watch LVG and Jose ruin our squad again. For the first time in a long time we actually seem to be going in the right direction squad wise (albeit more slowly than any of us would like). 3 or 4 good signings, a few more lads phased out and continued progression of the youths and we will end up with quite a decent squad within the next 12 months. I greatly look forward to being proved right on this.

Agreed. Unfortunately the hardest part is ahead of us, and that is where the unknowns lie. I would have loved Haaland to come in, and I'd like to see Fernandes, but I fully back the clubs position to walk away if the deals are not right for us. Its further proof that we have learned our lessons so if anything we should welcome it. Although watching Haaland bang in a hat-trick does leave a sour taste, we'd have signed a player that would have been impossible to keep in 2 years time. If he is ever going to play for us I'd rather us be the next club that gets him at his very best rather than sign a developing player whose contract dictates that we are a stepping stone to something else.

We were never likely to get one of our top targets in January. They simply are not available it seems, otherwise I'm confident we'd spend £100m this month if it could be spent how we wanted it to be spent. People seem to think that we could sign Fernandes this month and get Maddison or Grealish in the summer too. It doesn't work like that as you and I know. If the clubs finances dictate that we can risk £35-45m to Fernandes but not £65m, then that is just how it is. The fact the people think we hire anything less than top class financiers, and top class medical staff makes me die inside a little.

 

[Bilbo]

I'm not sure about what McTominays' injury was, only read some soundbites from Ole about how he wanted to play. Well, that's another one to the list.



Look, I'm not going to pretend I know everything about how players manage their body through a grueling season. I'm only commenting on what we know and what's available to us at hand, we will never be sure about if Rashford actually had a stress fracture in his back before the Wolves game. Ole said no, while Winter says yes. But, what we do know is that Rashford was struggling with his back for a while. A young kid like him and McTominay want to fight through the pain barrier, it's commendable to see that commitment as a fan. But, a manager also has a responsibility to ensure their well-being and not risk their careers in order to get a result.

I mean there is an Australian fast bowler by name of Pat Cummins, he suffered a stress fracture at age of 18. His injury was mis-managed by the medical staff and team management leading to another stress fracture a year later at age 19. Once again he was rushed back few months later which led to re-occurrence of that injury. 18 months later he would again suffer another stress fracture. You see the pattern here? If these things are not managed properly they can ruin several years of these athletes, or sometimes cripple their careers altogether. Thankfully, he's been playing regularly for past 3 years and has become one of the worlds' best but not everyone is that fortunate.

I love Rashford as a player, if there was a slight injury I can understand the management risking him. But not when the issue is of back, foot or an ankle. I mean we saw with Rooney ourselves, he broke his foot and was rushed back in time for WC which took away all his explosiveness. Same with the ankle injury sustained against Bayern, he himself admitted how he regretted that decision later which killed couple of more seasons at the top. Why are we still doing this to our players? Pogba, Maguire, McTominay can be cited as examples from this season alone. How can you not differentiate that with likes of Mane/Salah carrying slight knocks/strains or sore muscles?

Its not an exact science though is it? The player has a big say in how they are feeling and they also do not want to risk being unavailable, or damaging their bodies. There's little to be proven by naming one cricketer as an example because we all know that anything is possible. My point is that risks are taken with players every single week somewhere, and most of the time they work out just fine and we never hear of it, and sometimes they don't. Its an indication of where this forum is at these days that its branded a joke, clueless etc etc, when in reality this is a sports team and things happen. Nobody is talking about Kane being pushed to the limit, or any other player. This is highlighted because Rashford is another key player going down, but people need to realise that its way more about bad luck than it is about anything else.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

You've nothing to base that on though. Why couldn't he? He's won the league with his last club. A lot of top managers win in a smaller league before progressing to a bigger one. It's a pretty normal progression isn't it?

The only evidence of him reaching that level (Klopp or Pep) is his interim period at United.
The evidence of him not being good enough is his work at Cardiff and then his inability to win even the Norwegian league for 8 year. His successor won it straight away. He currently has 34 points in 23 games.
Progression would have been a valid argument had he won the Eliteserien consistently and then joined a mid tier league or PL club and improved them.

 

[Bobcat]

My problem with that is Ole's signings are not better. James is simply not good enough and he won't be, we massively overpaid for him considering he came from Championship. Maguire is probably one of the worst defenders at the club. I couldn't care less about his passing or ball control skills, this guy simply cannot defend and is slower than a snail. £80m for him is a definition of wasting money. AWB - great defensively, even more useless going forward than Valencia which says a lot. So for all the talk about Ole's great signings, I think it's just a load of BS. Realistically looking, they have been very average.

How did we overpay for James? 15 million is hardly a fortune in todays market and considering hes our top assist player in the league, hes been alright. That part about Maguire is just nonsense. Hes done better than Lindelof at every metric that matters. Jones is a disaster waiting to happen and the other CB's have been injured most of the season. Did we overpay for him? Yes. But claiming hes the worst defender at the club is just absurd. AWB is shit going forward yes, but his defensive stats are the best in Europe. Dalot is much better going forward, but incredibly naive in defense

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I'm sad. I know Ole isn't the best tactically but the one thing I liked him for was the rebuild he was carrying out. The culture he is trying to bring back. But when I step back and look at the whole picture, the road so far, it's very messy and there's a lot of evidence pointing out that this rebuild is done by an amateur.

 

[Cassidy]

How did we overpay for James? 15 million is hardly a fortune in todays market and considering hes our top assist player in the league, hes been alright. That part about Maguire is just nonsense. Hes done better than Lindelof at every metric that matters. Jones is a disaster waiting to happen and the other CB's have been injured most of the season. Did we overpay for him? Yes. But claiming hes the worst defender at the club is just absurd. AWB is shit going forward yes, but his defensive stats are the best in Europe. Dalot is much better going forward, but incredibly naive in defense

What is the most expensive signing from the championship? I think James at 18m is up there
Maguire certainly isn't the worse defender at the club, however he cannot be said to have been a good signing IMO

 

[SteveW]

Agreed. Unfortunately the hardest part is ahead of us, and that is where the unknowns lie. I would have loved Haaland to come in, and I'd like to see Fernandes, but I fully back the clubs position to walk away if the deals are not right for us. Its further proof that we have learned our lessons so if anything we should welcome it. Although watching Haaland bang in a hat-trick does leave a sour taste, we'd have signed a player that would have been impossible to keep in 2 years time. If he is ever going to play for us I'd rather us be the next club that gets him at his very best rather than sign a developing player whose contract dictates that we are a stepping stone to something else.

We were never likely to get one of our top targets in January. They simply are not available it seems, otherwise I'm confident we'd spend £100m this month if it could be spent how we wanted it to be spent. People seem to think that we could sign Fernandes this month and get Maddison or Grealish in the summer too. It doesn't work like that as you and I know. If the clubs finances dictate that we can risk £35-45m to Fernandes but not £65m, then that is just how it is. The fact the people think we hire anything less than top class financiers, and top class medical staff makes me die inside a little.

I've been thinking the exact same regarding Haaland. That clause is low as hell. We aren't a feeder club developing lads to move onto to other teams for peanuts. We may end up being his next destination assuming we keep improving.

I disagree with the second bolded part though to be honest. The Glazers have been taking fortunes out of the club for years. They could afford to spend more but simply aren't doing it. Wolves, West Ham and Villa have higher net spends over the last 3 windows than us. That's simply unacceptable considering the money this club generates. OT needs investment and they aren't doing that. They aren't buying players despite a desperate need for them. Who's to say they aren't cutting corners with the medical staff and facilities. Its a sobering thought but I can't exactly dismiss it.

We aren't performing well in that area. Can our squad really be this injury prone? How are we misdiagnosing injuries so often? And we do we sign so many injury prone players? Shouldn't we be picking this up in the scouting and medicals? To be fair to Ole and the scouts AWB, Maguire and James are all generally robust and not injury prone. So maybe they are finally figuring that out at long last.

I see no reason why a club of our size can't buy both Fernandes and Maddison/Grealish. The money should be piling up considering our stinginess over the last few windows.

 

[SteveW]

I'm sad. I know Ole isn't the best tactically but the one thing I liked him for was the rebuild he was carrying out. The culture he is trying to bring back. But when I step back and look at the whole picture, the road so far, it's very messy and there's a lot of evidence pointing out that this rebuild is done by an amateur.

Where does this come from??? He keeps getting his tactics right

 

[AneRu]

Agreed. Unfortunately the hardest part is ahead of us, and that is where the unknowns lie. I would have loved Haaland to come in, and I'd like to see Fernandes, but I fully back the clubs position to walk away if the deals are not right for us. Its further proof that we have learned our lessons so if anything we should welcome it. Although watching Haaland bang in a hat-trick does leave a sour taste, we'd have signed a player that would have been impossible to keep in 2 years time. If he is ever going to play for us I'd rather us be the next club that gets him at his very best rather than sign a developing player whose contract dictates that we are a stepping stone to something else.

We were never likely to get one of our top targets in January. They simply are not available it seems, otherwise I'm confident we'd spend £100m this month if it could be spent how we wanted it to be spent. People seem to think that we could sign Fernandes this month and get Maddison or Grealish in the summer too. It doesn't work like that as you and I know. If the clubs finances dictate that we can risk £35-45m to Fernandes but not £65m, then that is just how it is. The fact the people think we hire anything less than top class financiers, and top class medical staff makes me die inside a little.

You would have to be an eternal optimist to expect us to land Maddison, at prices that Woodward and Judge would find acceptable, in the summer and see him forfeit a chance of playing CL football with Leicester and if is so good as to warrant a 100m plus fee would our rivals let us get a free run at him? Let's be realistic, Fernandes could be the best we can do right now so the question has be what fraction of Portuguese league achievements can he attain in the PL from an attacking sense - we shouldn't expect a KDBsque impact we should just ask ourselves if he can add to the team. I think its better to get Fernandes now and then look towards a DM and RW in the summer then reevaluate Bruno's impact in 2021 or 2022 when, should things go to plan, we should be adding some stardust that takes us from 3rd to 1st.

 

[SteveW]

The only evidence of him reaching that level (Klopp or Pep) is his interim period at United.
The evidence of him not being good enough is his work at Cardiff and then his inability to win even the Norwegian league for 8 year. His successor won it straight away. He currently has 34 points in 23 games.
Progression would have been a valid argument had he won the Eliteserien consistently and then joined a mid tier league or PL club and improved them.

Another poster added some useful context to his time at Molde. Can't be fecked looking for the post. There is no doubt he did a good job there.

I think you are ignoring the context of whats happening at United. I think Klopps comment on Ole will be proven to be correct.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Where does this come from??? He keeps getting his tactics right

So you think he's the best tactically??

 

[Bobcat]

What is the most expensive signing from the championship? I think James at 18m is up there
Maguire certainly isn't the worse defender at the club, however he cannot be said to have been a good signing IMO

Does it matter where he came from? Hes probably not good enough as a starter if we wish to climb back to the top, but as a squad option hes perfectly fine

 

[SteveW]

So you think he's the best tactically??

Didn't realise you were being literal.

 

[Cassidy]

Does it matter where he came from? Hes probably not good enough as a starter if we wish to climb back to the top, but as a squad option hes perfectly fine

Yes if we are talking about him being expensive. I'm not convinced he will be good enough to be a squad player if we actually fix our squad, he lacks quality on the ball.
Also for a winger, he really struggles to beat a defender