That is not how it works in reality, also he wanted Lukaku sold
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
- Status
That is not how it works in reality, also he wanted Lukaku sold
He isn't employed by owners that try to do that. The board is inept but United isn't a cheap club.
Plus it's not even true. The ideal manager for owners who want to spend as little as possible would be Poch or Wenger, i.e. a manager who still gets into top four consistently without much budget to work with.
Ole is the ideal manager for club's who want to fade into obscurity.
He very very specifically said if Lukaku goes, we will buy a replacement.
Lukaku goes, no striker comes in.
Ole keeps his mouth shut like a good little boy.
As others have said, perfect manager for those above, just happy to be here.
You are right but even if you swap Ole for Poch or Wenger, we are talking about a club with a +300m wage bill and that effectively spends more than 150m on transfers every year. I don't know how we should describe United as a club but cheap would be the last thing to suggest.
Living off of a tap-in scored 20 years ago. You hate to see it.
We are a club who are incompetent at making decisions that are good for the football team. Wrong managers, wrong players, wrong coaches. Wrong, wrong wrong. The main wrong is the people who are running this club. They chose all these managers, including Ole and they should suffer the consequences, but they won't. As usual it will be the fans who suffer the most. Ole won't suffer, he will get a nice big payout.
I know that, but the point is that it is he who sidelined Lukaku from the moment he became manager and decided that Lukaku wasn't the type of striker he wanted. So it his decision to sell him.
Lets not make out as if the board forced him to sell, he wanted Lukaku out. He did this without knowing who the replacement would be, its naive at best management, because any manager knows the replacement you want is not guaranteed to be available.
We are also told that it was Ole who turned down Mandzukic and Llorente.
It was simply a rookie mistake, the board are also culpable too, but not lets not act like Ole didn't play his part
A smarter manager keeps Lukaku onside until he knows he no longer needs him, like Fergie
Then Ole created this situation. It's his own fault. Think getting rid of him and Fellaini was just to curry favour with the fans. Someone Moyes brought in, someone Jose brought in. He probably thought he was playing a blinder and it is backfiring.
Yeah I don't think that at all.
We've spent plenty of money since Fergie retired, consistently so. We've just spent it very very badly. And I count £80m Harry Maguire in that.
No he has been living off more than just a tap in. Sick of fans disrespecting a club legend like Ole. Dislike his management style and tactics? sure go ahead and criticize but stop degrading the man.
Talk about spouting rubbish..jesus. Maguire and AWB have been good signings and have solidified the defence. It doesn't help that they have crap players infront of them and beside them. They are far from the problem. If Ole had sought cheaper alternatives from other leagues and struggled, people like you will be giving him stick anyway for not spending the money on quality CB and RB.
I actually think there's a lot behind this. With Fellaini, there was not even a chance to prove himself as he had done with LVG and Jose before. Don't think anyone reasonably expected him to survive those managers with so much game time. Now, it could have been Ed. But I think Ole gave the thumbs up because he is mired in the noise online. Multiple times now Ole has had a dig at online fans that are critical. It strikes me as so so odd and is a classic psychology case that very likely means he's online himself quite a bit and has been influenced in the preceding years.
Lukaku could go either way as far as the reason for wanting him gone, as he was just too fat to play.
Do we know that though? I'm all for giving blame to Ole for the state of the football this year, but I find it hard believing he was happy to get rid of Lukaku and Sanchez without pushing for a quality replacement. I think it more likely, and this could still be seen as a criticism of his continuing as manager, that he suggested a few quality replacements he'd like and was denied by Woodward/Judge etc.
If there's evidence that Ole knew he wouldn't be getting a replacement, and was responsible for pulling names like Llorente and Manzukic pretty much out of his arse once we started to struggle, I've not seen it.
Lukaku was out of shape, but to sell him and leave us short in the area that wins games was negligent, now Martial has to produce as he appears to be our saviour.
He was also the top scoring striker under Ole...
Yes, Lukaku was sold close to the end of the window and there was no deal for a replacement.
It is naive management to think that a deal was going to magically appear in a couple of days. He also came out and said he would be ok without a replacement at that point.
Earlier in the window is when he said he would need a replacement if Lukaku were to be sold, later in the window before Lukaku had been sold he changed his tune
But how can they be that incompetent because I don't think that they are being malicious but just really dumb? How can they justify to themselves this type of spending with that type of results? As someone that is genuinely cheap, I would be physically sick if I was in their shoes, it would kill me to spend that much for absolutely nothing and I would have cut expenses a long time ago.
Then they really need to make changes or it will not get any better. They take too many shortcuts on the recruitment side. We need a DOF and more. If it cost money then they will have to just stump up and get the best or we will just sink into insignificance. We will end up a BT documentary, 'When United ruled the World'.
I think the Glazers themselves are quite passive and Woodward caves into fan pressure. Our fanbase is more of a cult, and the manager for the followers of this cult is the omnipotent leader.
Lukaku was sidelined as soon as Ole arrived and it was quite evident that they did not have a good relation. It no surprise Ole got rid of Lukaku, but what we won't know is if he was happy. Judging by his words, it appears as though he is happy without Lukaku being replaced.
Sanchez's loan is entirely on Ole. Glazers have nothing to gain from Sanchez deal as there is no fee and we are still paying 50% of his wages. Its not a significant saving for them anyway. It was just sheer stupidity from Ole after the window had closed.
That's what I believe too, it is cowardice that is seeing us in that situation because there is no other rational behind it, no one with a little bit of common sense would be happy to be associated with that type of failure, at that type of cost. If it was about money they could easily double their dividends and wages by simply reducing the wage bill to the actual worth of our current lot which should be closer to 100m than it is to 300m. You don't need to spend 600m per year in order to compete in the Europa League.
Do you know anything about football.... Maguire and AWB are not poor signings, they have massively improved out team ffs
I agree the sequencing of events got on top of Ole and United. I think once Ole had made it clear he didn't want Lukaku as part of his squad nor his dressing room he was out, and I assume (and certainly hope) Ole identified some replacement targets that were either rebuffed or missed by Woodward/Judge. At that point we could have cancelled Lukaku's exit and Ole would have had to integrate an unhappy player who thought he was leaving back into the team, but rightly or wrongly United took the option to get rid and made their money back.
While I understand many good managers have had success asking wantaway players to 'give us a season', I thought it was the correct decision at the time to cut our losses on Lukaku as he looked completely disinterested getting himself up for the fight here. I agree not replacing him was a massive failure this summer but I'm not minded to blame Ole for wanting Lukaku out and coming unstuck getting a replacement in.
In the context of whether Ole was influenced by fans and online to move Lukaku on, I'm not sure I can be as certain as with Fellaini. We do know that as soon as Ole came in he gave extremely preferential treatment to Rashford and precipitated Lukaku's search for another club.
In the end, specifics aside, it is not a very flattering picture of what Ole's man management is like.
Both were overpriced for players with such obvious flaws in them, £80m should get you Mr Perfect who elevates your defence up a level. Maguire lacks recovery pace and AWB is average in attack, both things a different manager might find intolerable.
A manager who need experience at your club isn't good enough for your club. He'll be gone by Jan/Feb IMO. Maximum by the end of the season.
I wouldn't call it an improvement worth overlooking the midfield over, no. If he knew that he was going to have £70m net to spend then going all out players with such obvious flaws wasn't the smartest decision he could make. Considering where were coming from anyone could improve our defense. For me the improvement we have seen so far wasn't worth the money.
I think Ole identified both as bad apples and was keen to get them out. Though I appreciate the argument that he should have been able to bring them back in from the cold once it was clear we weren't getting replacements I can also appreciate that I don't know how bad the dressing room was nor do I know the intricacies of their situations this summer. I'd be surprised if Ole had carte blanche to cancel those deals whenever he liked and I doubt whether he'd have been minded to have two disgruntled players return to his squad after they'd hoped to be at Inter.
Ole is not absolved of blame by any means but in my view the situation was more complex than a naive manager making a misjudgement, I think he was between a rock and a hard place.
That's not accurate in hindsight.
Dalglish took over Liverpool after Hodgson in the January when they were in exactly the same circumstances to us right now, hovering around the bottom half & laughing stock. He stabilised them, finishing 6th.
The following season he won the league cup (their first trophy for 6 years) and narrowly lost the FA cup final to Chelsea. He finished 8th.
Of course the fans didn't despise him and still loved him. He done a good job for them at the time.
If Ole took over us now and produced those results, he'd still be loved too.
Problem is, he's our Hodgson instead.
No, Moyes was our hodgson. Dalglish was Liverpool legend who took over, produced some very good football in half a season and then in the full season it was shit. Same with Ole, played some very good football in initial 2-3 months and in the full season it was shit.
There was no reason for Liverpool fans to stay loyal to Hodgson, juts like ManUtd fans didn't have for Moyes. Even when Dalglish was shit, Liverpool fans wanted him out but respected for what he achieved as a player and manager before, same with Ole. Fans want him out but he is respected for what he achieved as a player.
Comparing Liveprool fans treatment to Hodgson to ManUtd with Ole doesn't make sense considering Hodgson contributed feck all to Liverpool history.
Maybe I am giving Ole too much credit here, but I doubt he neglected midfield. Just the types of players that were identified were out of reach and he hoped more from the current lot - Pogba being fit and others not being below par to cover his role.
He possibly overestimated the capacity of a number of players to perform consistently which is just as poor a decision.
Not sure if it’s true. But apparently a few days after being made interim manager Ole showed Ed a screen of the 11 and then flipped it over to what it should be in 3 years time. That impressed Ed a lot. Also shows how gullible he is.
I am not insulting towards Solskjaer but i don't blame people who are because of the situation right now. I hold no sentimentality towards his past achievements as a player. Precisely because he is the manager right now. The only thing i care about is his managerial performances.
Whilst he is manager, who really cares what he achieved as a player? All i care about right now is that he's got us in our worst position since SAF retired. A few weeks back we were 16th! We're now 10th 10 points behind top 4 after 11 games already. By definition of results, he is our worst manager since SAF. None of the previous managers had us this low. Not even Moyes. So how is Solskjaer not our Hodgson?
I posted Dalglish's results. You call him shit in the full season, but he won their first trophy for 6 years and narrowly lost another in the same season he left. I know i would happily take those 'shit' results right now.
I'm comparing the individuals legacy as that was the discussion and the reply was to this point "Let me ask you, did Liverpool fans love Roy Hodgson when he was sinking them down into the abyss?"
It wasn't a valid comparison. Liverpool fans didn't love Hodgson just like ManUtd fans didn't love Moyes. There was no history between these managers and club. When it comes to Dalglish and Solskjaer, there is plenty of history.
What you are talking about is completely different argument and going by the records, Dalglish is by far the better manager than Ole.
There's this myth peddled that Lukaku and Sanchez were bad apples.
On what basis? Lukaku had weight issues and was subsequently kicked out of the club.
Doesn't Shaw battle with weight issues and have bigger problems performing consistently? What's the difference?
Didn't Lukaku help land Ole the job by scoring twice in the famous PSG victory?
He scored in 3 games in row. 2 goals against Palace, 2 goals against Southampton and 2 goals against PSG.
After PSG we played against arsenal and he didn't perform and was promptly dropped and Ole made it clear Rashford was his favorite and that's when Lukuku and his agent started releasing stories about his desire to move to Italy.
Rashford knew he was no 1 and his place was secure hence the Gold Rashy chain he treated himself to shortly after Lukaku got marginalized
Sanchez himself didn't start to badly under Ole either scoring in the 3-1 win against Arsenal. Then was dropped in favor of Lingard who was given umpteenth amount of chances to prove himself even when doing nothing but being a passenger on the field.
It had to take a huge fans backlash during pre season and the start of this season for Jesse to be dropped and that was partly due to his off the field clownery
Yet you can be damn sure Ole is in no rush to kick him out of the club like he did with Lukaku or Sanchez
Sanchez during his time here was always hard working and a model professional. In the media the only time you'd see his social media is when he was posting videos of him working out in the gym or showing off pictures of his dog.
So ask where this this stuff about these two players being bad apples come from?
Lukaku was injured in that PSG match and then made it worse in the Arsenal game.
People will believe anything just to avoid facing the uncomfortable truth that our beloved legend simply isn't good enough and that the club has made another big, expensive mistake.
Sanchez was not a bad apple in my opinion. All reports suggested he trained hard and had a good work ethic.
Lukaku was a bad apple. Its not just the weight issues. He flirted with Serie A long before he left openly while contracted to us. Then he name dropped Conte and went on to publish confidential fitness info on his peers using social media.
He was completely a bad apple. It doesn't matter how many he scores or how over critical we were of his performances. That type of professionalism has no place in our club.
- Status