Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Bobcat]

Mourinho was doing pretty well in big games in his second season with same tactics. What are you talking about? We had the second best record in big games after City in this season. Got 6 points from Arsenal, 4 from Liverpool, 3 from Chelsea, 3 from City and 3 from Spurs. However he was getting slaughtered for his defensive tactics, but now it's totally fine for Ole. Very weird hypocricy.

Fellaini, Lukaku and Smalling were all important players for us as starting or from the bench that helped us in multiple occasions and scored plenty of goals with exactly the same set of players around them. Selling them without replacing was stupid. Splashing 150m on CB and RB and prioritizing them on midfield and attack is his own doing as simple as that. We have never spent anything more than 150m in any of the previous 6 seasons under Moyes, LVG and Mourinho, so our budget is usually in that range and he decided to use it entirely on defense. Why shouldn't he take blame for fecking up the squad then? What prevented him from organizing his priorities if he believes the midfield is that shite and needs more important signings than splashing 80m on Maguire?

Actually blaming the squad depth is pointless because first again he chose to build the squad in this way and he himself said in pressers he took decisions that will harm us short term but supposedly will benefit us long term (don't know how) and second you can't convince me Bournemouth, Newcastle, WHU or these other teams have better squad depth than us ffs.

The only people "slaugthering" Jose for our performances in the second season were entitled idiots, and regardless of that the squad we put out then is not the same we have today. Matic and Mata still had their legs (somewhat), Herrera was still here, Lukaku had not yet turned into a useless lump, Pogba was fit pretty much the whole season etc. The combined price of our MF and attack vs B'mouth was 115 million, and that very much includes Fred who is worth about 5

Since when has Smalling turned into the best CB in the world? Considering how handsy he is on set pieces he would have caused a penalty every other game with VAR. Hes been here since Fergie and has never taken the step up to become a first XI regular, under 4 different managers none the less, so hes clearly not all that great. Hes also on loan so hes not gone forever should we want him back

Fellaini was utterly mediocre and his only use was going route#1 putting him in the box and punting it up to him.

Lukaku we have been over multiple times in this thread already. Hes a decent poacher, but overall he was utter shite his last season here. Even disregarding that, he was an unprofessional twat and you cant have someone like that in the dressing room. There have been plenty of questions asked on here about questionable attitudes and poor mentality among players in the squad. Having a player then who skips training because he is sulking and goes AWOL in away ties....and then gets away with it is not going to help.

No one is denying we are far, far to reliant on Pogba for creativity through the middle, so having him injured for anything but three games has been catastrophic. A case could be made for spending the Maguire money on something else, but almost every good team in history is "built from the back" in some sense. If you have a leaking defense, the midfielders in front of you are going to get nervous and that uncertainty spreads forward.

And squad depth is an problem. Believe it or not, the results of football matches is mostly decided on what happens on the pitch and the teams with the best players tends to be the ones that win stuff. Not going to assume what Oles long term plan is, but the kind of knee jerk, short term plans, especially regarding transfers we had under the three previous managers brought us nothing but misery

 

[SAFMUTD]

Its amazing we pay him more than what Liverpool pays Klopp. Speaks about the state of our club.

 

[Water Melon]

Its amazing we pay him more than what Liverpool pays Klopp. Speaks about the state of our club.

Just wow.

 

[devilish]

Its amazing we pay him more than what Liverpool pays Klopp. Speaks about the state of our club.

Seriously? Despite all his love towards the club, ole still took us to the cleaners.

 

[el3mel]

The only people "slaugthering" Jose for our performances in the second season were entitled idiots, and regardless of that the squad we put out then is not the same we have today. Matic and Mata still had their legs (somewhat), Herrera was still here, Lukaku had not yet turned into a useless lump, Pogba was fit pretty much the whole season etc. The combined price of our MF and attack vs B'mouth was 115 million, and that very much includes Fred who is worth about 5

Since when has Smalling turned into the best CB in the world? Considering how handsy he is on set pieces he would have caused a penalty every other game with VAR. Hes been here since Fergie and has never taken the step up to become a first XI regular, under 4 different managers none the less, so hes clearly not all that great. Hes also on loan so hes not gone forever should we want him back

Fellaini was utterly mediocre and his only use was going route#1 putting him in the box and punting it up to him.

Lukaku we have been over multiple times in this thread already. Hes a decent poacher, but overall he was utter shite his last season here. Even disregarding that, he was an unprofessional twat and you cant have someone like that in the dressing room. There have been plenty of questions asked on here about questionable attitudes and poor mentality among players in the squad. Having a player then who skips training because he is sulking and goes AWOL in away ties....and then gets away with it is not going to help.

No one is denying we are far, far to reliant on Pogba for creativity through the middle, so having him injured for anything but three games has been catastrophic. A case could be made for spending the Maguire money on something else, but almost every good team in history is "built from the back" in some sense. If you have a leaking defense, the midfielders in front of you are going to get nervous and that uncertainty spreads forward.

And squad depth is an problem. Believe it or not, the results of football matches is mostly decided on what happens on the pitch and the teams with the best players tends to be the ones that win stuff. Not going to assume what Oles long term plan is, but the kind of knee jerk, short term plans, especially regarding transfers we had under the three previous managers brought us nothing but misery

Didn't we have a long discussion about pretty much all these not long time ago?

 

[In Rainbows]

Seriously? Despite all his love towards the club, ole still took us to the cleaners.

I wouldn't blame Ole for that. That's on Woodward and Matt Judge. Only those two can have the greatest leverage and manage to cock it up. It's not like Ole would have left for another job if he didn't get that salary.

 

[Abhinav]

Please do your research properly before telling me I'm wrong, and when you come back let's chat further

I never said it's his MUFC record I gave his BPL record please read properly.

So you post Ole’s BPL record including his time at Cardiff in a thread which is discussing his performance as a United manager and I should be the one to do my research? How is his record at Cardiff relevant to his role as a United manager. Any manager of a bottom 3 side will have more defeats than victories and -ve goal difference.

 

[devilish]

I wouldn't blame Ole for that. That's on Woodward and Matt Judge. Only those two can have the greatest leverage and manage to cock it up. It's not like Ole would have left for another job if he didn't get that salary.

If Ole was as shrewd in managing the squad as he is in negotiating a deal for himself then we would be flying. We used to think that only mercenaries took the club to the cleaners. At least mercenaries have the talent to justify that.

 

[roonster09]

I wouldn't blame Ole for that. That's on Woodward and Matt Judge. Only those two can have the greatest leverage and manage to cock it up. It's not like Ole would have left for another job if he didn't get that salary.

That post wasn't even true. Klopp gets way more than Ole. France Football or some french paper posted top 20 paid managers in the world, Klopp is earning around 12 million per year with Ole around 7-7.5 million.

 

[TMDaines]

With seven out of the next ten at home, it feels as if it is now make or break time for Ole. If he wins the next two against Partizan and Brighton at home, then we'd have won five out of six, with a good draw against Liverpool before that, and he could hopefully build some momentum with the games to follow. If not, I get the feeling the stadium will start to get uneasy.

 

[Withnail]

Please do your research properly before telling me I'm wrong, and when you come back let's chat further

I never said it's his MUFC record I gave his BPL record please read properly.

So you say, but it's not exactly clear from the below. You've referenced United's PL record this season and then talk about Ole's without making it clear you're including the results from the stint at the basket-case that was Cardiff.

I am at a point where i dont know what will happen with Ole. Clearly useless as a coach but the scary part is we have ex players and fans saying he needs time. We have lost more games than we have won this season in the BPL. Ole's record reads 50 matches 18 wins 11 draws 21 losses goals for 66 goals against 78. So i ask again where does this record belong as a coach of MUFC?

 

[In Rainbows]

That post wasn't even true. Klopp gets way more than Ole. France Football or some french paper posted top 20 paid managers in the world, Klopp is earning around 12 million per year with Ole around 7-7.5 million.

Yeah I think I remember those figures now that you mention it.

 

[led_scholes]

Parachuting in a manager midway through a season is kamikaze stuff. We are nowhere near the point whereby we need to take desperate measures to stave off relegation.

In any case, City and Liverpool have the top two spots sewn up between them. What's the point of bringing in someone now? What are they going to realistically achieve in a season that's already pretty much over as far as the league goes. They might get us up to fifth or sixth if there is a new manager bounce, but that doesn't really equate to anything significant in terms of silverware.

If we are going to bring in a new manager then they will need time to work with the players and a meaningful pre-season.

For that reason, Ole gets our full support for this campaign and we will see where we are towards the backend of the season. Given what has happened since SAF retired, there's absolutely no point in starting another merry-go-round situation where we draft in a new manager on a whim. We have to be sure that the next manager will have a positive impact on the players and the culture of the football club.

The squad are already showing the effect of the crazy last few years we have had. They need stability.

Emm that is why we should bring a new manager now?? Why wait for a manager who is almost a year here to turn it around. We are closer to relegation than top 4.
That mentality is the reason we dont progress. Why bring a new manager when Moyes has us play dreadfully and we are not chasing anything anyway?? Well, if Moyes was fired in December maybe we could have managed a top four spot.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Its amazing we pay him more than what Liverpool pays Klopp. Speaks about the state of our club.

Unless you've seen their wage slips you don't know this to be true. Even if it is, its not money out of your pocket and I'd much rather the money go to Ole or the players than go to Uncle Glazer's lap dance fund.

This is getting close to character assassination and Ole deserves far better than that.

 

[Withnail]

If Ole was as shrewd in managing the squad as he is in negotiating a deal for himself then we would be flying. We used to think that only mercenaries took the club to the cleaners. At least mercenaries have the talent to justify that.

Apparently it's not even true but it doesn't seem like you have to be shrewd to get overpaid by Woodward. He doesn't seem to spend very wisely. Highest Wage bill in the league (on paper) and all that.

 

[devilish]

Apparently it's not even true but it doesn't seem like you have to be shrewd to get overpaid by Woodward. He doesn't seem to spend very wisely. Highest Wage bill in the league (on paper) and all that.

My point is that you don't need to be a mercenary to take the club to the cleaners. People that gets what working for Manchester United is all about can do that as well. Which is fair enough as its a job for them and let's face it everyone has a family to think about. However these guys shouldn't go all sentimental when things go wrong and they become deadwood themselves.

Ultimately I wish we become as cynical and as ruthless as clubs like Juve are. People do a job there which they are well paid for and they feck off the moment they are not needed anymore.

 

[Perseus]

With seven out of the next ten at home, it feels as if it is now make or break time for Ole. If he wins the next two against Partizan and Brighton at home, then we'd have won five out of six, with a good draw against Liverpool before that, and he could hopefully build some momentum with the games to follow. If not, I get the feeling the stadium will start to get uneasy.

How do you expect Ole to deal with Brighton? What sort of tactics? Kind of sounding board. City and Chelsea won 4-0 and 2-0 both easily without so much as a scare.

 

[Amir]

My opinion for giving Mata new contract is part of persuasion DDG to stay. This is his last season here i mean.

Mata just got a brand new two-year contract, while it's clear he's got nothing to contribute to us on the pitch. There's no excuse for it.

 

[Kemizee]

I do sometimes wonder how low we could actually end up. I mean if someone had told me 15 years ago that a win against Norwich would be treated with such smugness and elation, I’d have passed out. There was a post after the Chelsea win in round 1 that I saw when someone said “we are so lucky” in terms of the manager. It’s stayed with me all season and I’m still cringing now.

We don’t seem to have any standards anymore, as supporters as much as anything else. Mark my words, if Jesse Lingard ever manages to put two half decent performances together in a row, people will be on here telling us “I told you so, as if you all wrote him off”.

Consistency does not exist here anymore. There was a time when we’d make judgments off a season, performances over a season. You can have 5-10 half decent performances a season now and be seen as a good player at United.

This is one of the if not the biggest problem with our club today. Standards have plummeted badly. From the management to the coaches to the players to some of the fanbase. Average now seems normal, is celeberated and even rewarded.

We are in a big big mess and untill we start demanding accountability and high standards as a club, we will simply go nowhere.

 

[Giggsyking]

Its amazing we pay him more than what Liverpool pays Klopp. Speaks about the state of our club.

WOW
When I said he is in it more for the money than the love of the club, people attacked me and my posts. How can he ask for more money than the UCL winner and the title contender 2 years in a row?

 

[R'hllor]

Is it even possible to fact check that statement about Klopp and Ole wage thing, if so and its not true, then that should be an issue, just fueling fire with made up stuff.

 

[Kemizee]

• Solskjær is not a world beater but he is a perfectly adequate manager in a rebuilding situation. He is not tactically naive like people mention out here, he has out thought Klopp, Pochettino and Tuchel in his short tenure so the evidence is there that he is not a complete liability. It would be one thing if he was getting hammered in big games like Moyes or Jose at the end of his tenure but that hasn't been the case and he's been losing to the lesser teams because the options he has do not have the quality to break stubborn defences down or hold down leads and close games, which is typical of a young, inexperienced squad.

The fact remains that he is working with a paper thin squad owing to a lack of proper management and severe deficit in terms of creativity in midfield due to over reliance on Pogba.

You can blame him for it and its not completely without merit but if you want any young manager to succeed at this level, you need a proper footballing structure above them to guide them in the right way.

If the club did not think that was the way to go, they could well have backed LvG or Jose to the hilt, bought some more 27+ year olds and accepted that only a highly experienced manager can handle both recruitment, squad building and youth development while getting results in the shorter term.

You hire any other young manager like Nagelsmann, Pochettino or Ten Haag and they'll suffer the same fate in a rotten situation.

The more he stays with us the longer I doubt he is that and I am not kidding! I don't even think any manager from a club side here in the Nigerian Premier League would fare worse than he is and I mean it for real!

 

[Bobcat]

Didn't we have a long discussion about pretty much all these not long time ago?

We did . And honestly its not worth discussing the players that left in more length. But, if we do take a honest look at our squad, its pretty clear its not the superstar squad we have had in the past. Its pretty far from it.

DDG: 25 million£. Used to be the best keeper in world and has looked a shadow of himself for about 2-3 years now.
Maguire: 80 million£, expensive, maybe even overpriced, but that's what you got to pay for English internationals
Lindelof: 35 million£. Has looked decent from time to time, but overall has been poor imo in his time here. Dont think hes gonna be good enough as a first choice CB if we want big trophies
Rojo/Jones/Baily: 78 million£ combined. Problem with these guys is that they cant stay injury free for more than 2 months, and even when they are fit they are incredibly rash and tend to make massive blunders way to often for them to be trusted
Tuanzebe: 0 million£ Hopefully he can develop into a first team regular
Shaw: 37 million£: Hes decent but has the worst injury record i have seen. I dont see the point in having him at all since he never plays anyway
Young: 18 million£: Hes 34, bizzare that we still rely on him so much
AWB: 55 million£: Hes great. POTM in October and if he keeps on delivering hes guaranteed to be our POTY
Dalot: 18 million£: Maybe he can become good one day, but right now hes well below AWB
Matic: 45 million£: Had one good season before he lost his legs. 45 million is bloody expensive for one decent season
Pogba: 100 million£: Fecking expensive and our only superstar outfield player. Problem is that hes been injured almost the entire season so far
McTomminay: 0 million£. I like him a lot, but at 22 he really should not be a regular starter as a CM as most CM's dont develop the nous and tactical awareness to be top player until they are 25+
Fred: 50 million£: I dont hate the guy and we cant blame him for his price tag or the fact that we bought him, but he is truly Bebe-levels of bad and 50 million is just absurd
Mata: 44 million£: I think hes been a decent player for us, but its clear as day he no longer has the legs to play at this level.
Pereira: 0 million£: Has been here 4-5 years? Has never shown that hes anywhere near the required level
Lingaard: 0 million£: Zero goals and assists since last December says it all. Is stealing a living here
Martial: 60 million£: Everyone (including Ole) was hoping this was going to be his year. Hopefully it can, but his consistency has to improve drastically if hes ever going to become a top class CF
James: 15 million£: Take penalties out of the equation, and hes our most productive player this season. Time will tell, but if he keeps improving, 15 million is going to be an absolute steal
Rashford: 0 million£: Hes quite good at some things, but quite limited otherwise. Maybe he will become great one day, but right now hes little more than a promising academy player really
Greenwood: 0 million£: Way to early to tell. Maybe he will become a star one day

So lets sum this up. We have spent a combined total of 272 million£ on Rojo, Jones, Baily, Shaw, Fred, Young, Matic and Mata and that is not accounting for inflation in prices, had we bought them today, the sum would be at least twice that imo, but lets say 400 million£ to get a nice round number. These are "deadwood" for different reasons. Some are simply not good enough, some are always injured while some are just too old for this level

Then you have the "good" players DDG, Pogba and Martial bought before Oles time for 185 million£, but in Martials case, needs to show a lot more to justify that price tag really. And then you have the ones Ole bought: Maguire, AWB and James for a combined 150 million£. The rest of them are academy players.

So the situation is as follows. Before Ole got here, 272 million£ (much more if you adjust for inflation) had been pissed away on deadwood or players that should have been replaced a long time ago. The actual good players that were here accounted for around 185 million£, while Ole bought for 150 million£ himself, the rest are academy players and most of them dont look good enough. if we are being completely honest.

Those are damning numbers imo, almost half (even more if you account for inflation) of our budget has been spent on dross, meanwhile only about 335 million are have been spent an actual useful players.

This isnt about accepting mediocrity or saying that Ole has done wonderfully or anything. But rather accepting the fact that despite our big name our current squad has been mangled by years of bad transfers and is currently pretty fecking far from where it should be in terms of quality

 

[Kemizee]

I still say that Woodward is the root cause of our failures.
I'replace him first. Leave Ole as manager.
Once a new DoF is hired, he can then assess Ole and if he feels he needs replacing, then so be it.

Guess the assesment will begin once we are hovering around 18th - 20th as our current plight isn't bad enough.

With Woodward in charge, if we replaced Ole with a top manager, Woodward's decisions will ensure that he too, will fail.

 

[Kemizee]

Parachuting in a manager midway through a season is kamikaze stuff. We are nowhere near the point whereby we need to take desperate measures to stave off relegation.

In any case, City and Liverpool have the top two spots sewn up between them. What's the point of bringing in someone now? What are they going to realistically achieve in a season that's already pretty much over as far as the league goes. They might get us up to fifth or sixth if there is a new manager bounce, but that doesn't really equate to anything significant in terms of silverware.

If we are going to bring in a new manager then they will need time to work with the players and a meaningful pre-season.

For that reason, Ole gets our full support for this campaign and we will see where we are towards the backend of the season. Given what has happened since SAF retired, there's absolutely no point in starting another merry-go-round situation where we draft in a new manager on a whim. We have to be sure that the next manager will have a positive impact on the players and the culture of the football club.

The squad are already showing the effect of the crazy last few years we have had. They need stability.

My beloved club now having to share a statement with relegation. How the mighty have fallen! feck off and I mean it for real if all you can is Ole is 'okay' as long as we are not in a relegation fight.

Fans like you are the reason why this nonsense malaise the club is facing has become a permanent feature of us.

Is our current plight not indicative of a situation needing desperate measures? What else will the babyfaced clueless manager do for you to realise he is woefully out of his depth? Give me a break!

 

[Kajus]

I've been reading through this and the other Ole threads on here and the further I go, the more I see emotions getting the best of people, especially after a bad result. I want to drop my two cents here and would love to have a discussion with someone whose ideas don't start and end with 'Ole is a fool' or 'Ole is a joke'.

First of all, I am against sacking Ole at this time. But this does not stem from some naive romanticism that he can turn it around and win the league within a few years, although I am not qualified to make a definitive judgement, I don't think he can take the club to the same heights that Fergie did. However, thoughtless, emotional decisions is what got us where we are in the first place. I don't want to argue whether Ole is good enough, that's a whole different discussion. What I want to ask is, if Ole isn't, then who is? That is, if Ole were to be sacked tomorrow, who do you realistically get to replace him? Emphasis on the word realistically.

The names thrown around here often are Marco Rose and Julian Nagelsmann. Although very promising, both just started at their new clubs and are not moving anytime soon. They fail by the 'realistic' criterion.

Massimiliano Allegri is probably the one most talked about around here. People seem to forget the dissatisfaction with Mourinho days and the style of football. Allegri would very likely be worse. We are talking about a man who was disliked by Juventus fans for his football and they wanted him gone. Juventus fans. When someone says that winning Serie A with Juventus isn't a big achievement, his A.C. Milan title comes up. What these same people fail to mention is that he finished lower and lower each year until leaving with them in the 11th place. But the most important thing, in my opinion, is the completely different football philosophy from the one that the club seems to want to go with. People moan about not having a Director of Football and then keep suggesting to do the opposite of what one would do - change the identity of the club with each managerial appointment. Before anyone says that Ole does not implement any real football philosophy, we at least know what kind of vision the club wants to go forward with. Getting a manager that is the opposite of that would essentially reset us into the beginning of a rebuild cycle.

Mauricio Pochettino is another one. The man has Spurs below us in the table with, in my opinion, a superior squad. But a serious look at Mauricio Pochettino is a topic for a different discussion, right now the simple truth is that he is employed by Spurs and that's the end of it.

Now as for Ole, the results are bad and I don't think anyone could argue that. The football itself is pretty bad, but not as bad as some make it out to be. I often wonder if the people in post match threads actually watch the game or just come in to moan. As I said, the football isn't good, but it's also not as bad as the results suggest. But the football is not the reason why I want Ole to stay for the time being. The reasons are that for the first time since Fergie retired we actually have a person in charge who cares about the club. A person who loves the club, who is looking to build the club for the future. One of the reasons we are in this mess is that the managers we hired were looking out for themselves, they desperately wanted not to fail and therefore went for short term fixes to maximise results there and then. And what did this bring us exactly? A few top 4 finishes, a few cup titles and a squad that's full of deadwood. Ole may or may not be good enough to succeed here, but he is building the platform upon which the club can grow - be it with him or another manager. He added good, young players and he got rid of older players that were harming the squad's harmony, freeing up the wage bill with that. The club is in a transitional period, the squad was stronger last year, but if you ask me which squad is better to be built on, I'd say this year's. In that regard, I am sure that Ole is doing a good job. People often criticise Ole for saying he is happy with the squad and the players and hence the word delusional is often thrown around. I'd like you to stop here for a second and think about it. We had Mourinho, who did the opposite, how did that work out again? Can you imagine how demoralizing it would be for the whole squad, especially the young players, if the manager came out and publicly said that they are not good enough. You can't do that. I do not believe that Ole actually thinks this squad is good enough, but to publicly shame the players about it would destroy any squad morale that is left in there. So I think Ole got this spot on as well. I am no expert of course, so if anyone has a better idea on how to handle questions like 'do you think the squad is good enough?' then by all means please tell me.

To put all of this together, I don't know if Ole is good enough or not. The results so far aren't. What I do know is that Ole is doing a good job in building a squad for the future. Are the currently available managers (read: Allegri) better than Ole? Likely. Are they good enough to take the club where we want it to be. I don't think so. So try and answer this question: Is the club better off changing managers like worn socks every time things get rough, and things will get rough because the squad is simply not good enough, changing playing style and philosophy each time that happens, or is the club better off waiting for the right man becoming available (be it Rose, Nagelsmann or any other manager that emerges) and meanwhile letting Ole build a platform for that man to perform? I know I choose the latter,

 

[BlueHaze]

Is it even possible to fact check that statement about Klopp and Ole wage thing, if so and its not true, then that should be an issue, just fueling fire with made up stuff.

Well I just googled it and according to various sources Klopp's on £7m a year with Ole on £7.5m.

I checked goal.com and Talksport. Though pretty much every other site says the same.

Highest paid is Guardiola on £15m a year.

 

[7even]

I've been reading through this and the other Ole threads on here and the further I go, the more I see emotions getting the best of people, especially after a bad result. I want to drop my two cents here and would love to have a discussion with someone whose ideas don't start and end with 'Ole is a fool' or 'Ole is a joke'.

First of all, I am against sacking Ole at this time. But this does not stem from some naive romanticism that he can turn it around and win the league within a few years, although I am not qualified to make a definitive judgement, I don't think he can take the club to the same heights that Fergie did. However, thoughtless, emotional decisions is what got us where we are in the first place. I don't want to argue whether Ole is good enough, that's a whole different discussion. What I want to ask is, if Ole isn't, then who is? That is, if Ole were to be sacked tomorrow, who do you realistically get to replace him? Emphasis on the word realistically.

The names thrown around here often are Marco Rose and Julian Nagelsmann. Although very promising, both just started at their new clubs and are not moving anytime soon. They fail by the 'realistic' criterion.

Massimiliano Allegri is probably the one most talked about around here. People seem to forget the dissatisfaction with Mourinho days and the style of football. Allegri would very likely be worse. We are talking about a man who was disliked by Juventus fans for his football and they wanted him gone. Juventus fans. When someone says that winning Serie A with Juventus isn't a big achievement, his A.C. Milan title comes up. What these same people fail to mention is that he finished lower and lower each year until leaving with them in the 11th place. But the most important thing, in my opinion, is the completely different football philosophy from the one that the club seems to want to go with. People moan about not having a Director of Football and then keep suggesting to do the opposite of what one would do - change the identity of the club with each managerial appointment. Before anyone says that Ole does not implement any real football philosophy, we at least know what kind of vision the club wants to go forward with. Getting a manager that is the opposite of that would essentially reset us into the beginning of a rebuild cycle.

Mauricio Pochettino is another one. The man has Spurs below us in the table with, in my opinion, a superior squad. But a serious look at Mauricio Pochettino is a topic for a different discussion, right now the simple truth is that he is employed by Spurs and that's the end of it.

Now as for Ole, the results are bad and I don't think anyone could argue that. The football itself is pretty bad, but not as bad as some make it out to be. I often wonder if the people in post match threads actually watch the game or just come in to moan. As I said, the football isn't good, but it's also not as bad as the results suggest. But the football is not the reason why I want Ole to stay for the time being. The reasons are that for the first time since Fergie retired we actually have a person in charge who cares about the club. A person who loves the club, who is looking to build the club for the future. One of the reasons we are in this mess is that the managers we hired were looking out for themselves, they desperately wanted not to fail and therefore went for short term fixes to maximise results there and then. And what did this bring us exactly? A few top 4 finishes, a few cup titles and a squad that's full of deadwood. Ole may or may not be good enough to succeed here, but he is building the platform upon which the club can grow - be it with him or another manager. He added good, young players and he got rid of older players that were harming the squad's harmony, freeing up the wage bill with that. The club is in a transitional period, the squad was stronger last year, but if you ask me which squad is better to be built on, I'd say this year's. In that regard, I am sure that Ole is doing a good job. People often criticise Ole for saying he is happy with the squad and the players and hence the word delusional is often thrown around. I'd like you to stop here for a second and think about it. We had Mourinho, who did the opposite, how did that work out again? Can you imagine how demoralizing it would be for the whole squad, especially the young players, if the manager came out and publicly said that they are not good enough. You can't do that. I do not believe that Ole actually thinks this squad is good enough, but to publicly shame the players about it would destroy any squad morale that is left in there. So I think Ole got this spot on as well. I am no expert of course, so if anyone has a better idea on how to handle questions like 'do you think the squad is good enough?' then by all means please tell me.

To put all of this together, I don't know if Ole is good enough or not. The results so far aren't. What I do know is that Ole is doing a good job in building a squad for the future. Are the currently available managers (read: Allegri) better than Ole? Likely. Are they good enough to take the club where we want it to be. I don't think so. So try and answer this question: Is the club better off changing managers like worn socks every time things get rough, and things will get rough because the squad is simply not good enough, changing playing style and philosophy each time that happens, or is the club better off waiting for the right man becoming available (be it Rose, Nagelsmann or any other manager that emerges) and meanwhile letting Ole build a platform for that man to perform? I know I choose the latter,

Seriously?

No offense but what you essentially is saying is that you hope he builds for the future and at the meantime the results doesn’t matter.

Poor Ole, even his biggest supporters are down to praying for luck and hope for the best.

 

[ash_86]

We are getting killed due to midweek games. Our paper thin squad cannot handle games every 2-3 days. We need to exit one or two cup competitions.

 

[Foxbatt]

I really do not understand why anyone would keep Ole? What facts are there to show that he has any idea how to coach a football team? Everything goes by facts and not emotions. Yes he sold some players and now it turns out to be the wrong decision in fact. There are plenty of managers who have much better track record and also currently doing much and a lot better than Ole.
So why him? Apart from the fact he scored a winning goal in a CL Final?

 

[Godfather]

We are getting killed due to midweek games. Our paper thin squad cannot handle games every 2-3 days. We need to exit one or two cup competitions.

Euro league is our only real chance to get CL football next season. So we hopefully won't exit that one.

 

[Kajus]

Seriously?

No offense but what you essentially is saying is that you hope he builds for the future and at the meantime the results doesn’t matter.

Poor Ole, even his biggest supporters are down to praying for luck and hope for the best.

I'm very sorry if that's all you managed to get from that post.

 

[Cloud7]

I've been reading through this and the other Ole threads on here and the further I go, the more I see emotions getting the best of people, especially after a bad result. I want to drop my two cents here and would love to have a discussion with someone whose ideas don't start and end with 'Ole is a fool' or 'Ole is a joke'.

First of all, I am against sacking Ole at this time. But this does not stem from some naive romanticism that he can turn it around and win the league within a few years, although I am not qualified to make a definitive judgement, I don't think he can take the club to the same heights that Fergie did. However, thoughtless, emotional decisions is what got us where we are in the first place. I don't want to argue whether Ole is good enough, that's a whole different discussion. What I want to ask is, if Ole isn't, then who is? That is, if Ole were to be sacked tomorrow, who do you realistically get to replace him? Emphasis on the word realistically.

The names thrown around here often are Marco Rose and Julian Nagelsmann. Although very promising, both just started at their new clubs and are not moving anytime soon. They fail by the 'realistic' criterion.

Massimiliano Allegri is probably the one most talked about around here. People seem to forget the dissatisfaction with Mourinho days and the style of football. Allegri would very likely be worse. We are talking about a man who was disliked by Juventus fans for his football and they wanted him gone. Juventus fans. When someone says that winning Serie A with Juventus isn't a big achievement, his A.C. Milan title comes up. What these same people fail to mention is that he finished lower and lower each year until leaving with them in the 11th place. But the most important thing, in my opinion, is the completely different football philosophy from the one that the club seems to want to go with. People moan about not having a Director of Football and then keep suggesting to do the opposite of what one would do - change the identity of the club with each managerial appointment. Before anyone says that Ole does not implement any real football philosophy, we at least know what kind of vision the club wants to go forward with. Getting a manager that is the opposite of that would essentially reset us into the beginning of a rebuild cycle.

Mauricio Pochettino is another one. The man has Spurs below us in the table with, in my opinion, a superior squad. But a serious look at Mauricio Pochettino is a topic for a different discussion, right now the simple truth is that he is employed by Spurs and that's the end of it.

Now as for Ole, the results are bad and I don't think anyone could argue that. The football itself is pretty bad, but not as bad as some make it out to be. I often wonder if the people in post match threads actually watch the game or just come in to moan. As I said, the football isn't good, but it's also not as bad as the results suggest. But the football is not the reason why I want Ole to stay for the time being. The reasons are that for the first time since Fergie retired we actually have a person in charge who cares about the club. A person who loves the club, who is looking to build the club for the future. One of the reasons we are in this mess is that the managers we hired were looking out for themselves, they desperately wanted not to fail and therefore went for short term fixes to maximise results there and then. And what did this bring us exactly? A few top 4 finishes, a few cup titles and a squad that's full of deadwood. Ole may or may not be good enough to succeed here, but he is building the platform upon which the club can grow - be it with him or another manager. He added good, young players and he got rid of older players that were harming the squad's harmony, freeing up the wage bill with that. The club is in a transitional period, the squad was stronger last year, but if you ask me which squad is better to be built on, I'd say this year's. In that regard, I am sure that Ole is doing a good job. People often criticise Ole for saying he is happy with the squad and the players and hence the word delusional is often thrown around. I'd like you to stop here for a second and think about it. We had Mourinho, who did the opposite, how did that work out again? Can you imagine how demoralizing it would be for the whole squad, especially the young players, if the manager came out and publicly said that they are not good enough. You can't do that. I do not believe that Ole actually thinks this squad is good enough, but to publicly shame the players about it would destroy any squad morale that is left in there. So I think Ole got this spot on as well. I am no expert of course, so if anyone has a better idea on how to handle questions like 'do you think the squad is good enough?' then by all means please tell me.

To put all of this together, I don't know if Ole is good enough or not. The results so far aren't. What I do know is that Ole is doing a good job in building a squad for the future. Are the currently available managers (read: Allegri) better than Ole? Likely. Are they good enough to take the club where we want it to be. I don't think so. So try and answer this question: Is the club better off changing managers like worn socks every time things get rough, and things will get rough because the squad is simply not good enough, changing playing style and philosophy each time that happens, or is the club better off waiting for the right man becoming available (be it Rose, Nagelsmann or any other manager that emerges) and meanwhile letting Ole build a platform for that man to perform? I know I choose the latter,

Caring about the club and loving the club is such a hollow statement. What does that mean? Why is that relevant in any way or form when we’re assessing a manager?

Did Sir Alex love United when he came down from Scotland? Did Sir Matt love United when he took up the United job after a career spent playing for Liverpool and City? Did Mourinho care about Chelsea when he came to England and made them a dominant force?

A manager doing well goes hand in hand with the club doing well. This concept of caring about the club and wanting to lay the foundations for the future is nonsense, and it’s just another hollow excuse for the fact that things are abysmal now and don’t show any signs of getting better.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Caring about the club and loving the club is such a hollow statement. What does that mean? Why is that relevant in any way or form when we’re assessing a manager?

Did Sir Alex love United when he came down from Scotland? Did Sir Matt love United when he took up the United job after a career spent playing for Liverpool and City? Did Mourinho care about Chelsea when he came to England and made them a dominant force?

A manager doing well goes hand in hand with the club doing well. This concept of caring about the club and wanting to lay the foundations for the future is nonsense, and it’s just another hollow excuse for the fact that things are abysmal now and don’t show any signs of getting better.

Excellent post. Ive had enough of this "But Ole loves the club" shite.

 

[romufc]

A manager doing well goes hand in hand with the club doing well. This concept of caring about the club and wanting to lay the foundations for the future is nonsense, and it’s just another hollow excuse for the fact that things are abysmal now and don’t show any signs of getting better

You can also look at it in a different perspective. If Ole cares about United so much, he should by now realise he is not the right man for the job. He should accept that, and move on.

The fact that he continues on shows he cares about his bank balance just as much.

If we were improving, then you could say okay lets see how it goes. But we only seem to get a result against the bigger teams. That's like 12/15 games a year. 3 wins in 11 games is shocking.

 

[Bobcat]

I don't think that's the argument put forth. When people say Ole's the reason for a poor squad, it's due to him choosing to strengthen the defense when the midfield and attack was in worse shape after losing Herrera and Lukaku. They compare this current squad to that of Mourinho's squad who had the same squad minus AWB, Maguire, and James, but also had Herrera, Smalling, Fellaini, Sanchez, and Lukaku instead. In other words, the reason for United having a different squad this season compared to last season is due to Ole's decision making and so if the squad is worse this season compared to last, it's his fault.

The comparison figures are
Mou's United = 20 pts in 11 matches
Ole's United = 13 pts in 11 matches

Losing Herrera was terrible, but that was down to Woody running down his contract so he left on a free transfer. When Ole got here he had already agreed term with PSG. Herrera was also instrumental in Oles first good run, with him Ole had a win percentage of 85% or something, and without him 50%. And this has been said a million times already, but Lukaku had to go. You cant have players skipping training and going AWOL on away ties and let it stand

 

[Cloud7]

You can also look at it in a different perspective. If Ole cares about United so much, he should by now realise he is not the right man for the job. He should accept that, and move on.

The fact that he continues on shows he cares about his bank balance just as much.

If we were improving, then you could say okay lets see how it goes. But we only seem to get a result against the bigger teams. That's like 12/15 games a year. 3 wins in 11 games is shocking.

No one cares more about their job than themselves. That a large portion of our fanbase have deluded themselves into thinking that Ole loves this job more than himself and his making himself some sort of martyr by doing this clear out and what not, is nothing short of embarrassing.

For years our fans laughed at Liverpool fans for their nauseating sentimentality and extreme emotion over every little thing, but a lot of stuff I read on here isn’t very far from the fan fiction that lot used to write about Rafa.

 

[James Ward]

Interesting that Leicester have conceded the least amount of goals this season after getting rid of Maguire. He is not worth 80 million and is Wan-Bissaka really worth 55 million? Great defender but is pretty rubbish going forward compared to City and Liverpool's full backs.

Now lets compare our forward players of Rashford, Martial, James and Lingard with Liverpool,City's and Chelsea's

Liverpool - Mane, Firmino and Salah
Chelsea - Mount, Abraham, Pulisic, Odoi
City - Sterling, Aguero, Bernado Silva, Sane

Man Utd are a mile behind either of these three teams. I could easily get started on the defense and midfield but United are in such a state I actually don't where to start.

Everyone is putting faith in Martial but he is not good enough and not consistent enough for Manchester United. Rashford is young and will come good but he needs better players around him.

I'm not surprised Pogba wants to leave to be honest. The whole team is useless.

 

[Foxbatt]

Excellent post. Ive had enough of this "But Ole loves the club" shite.

This should be highlighted everywhere. So all the players who come and play for any club loves and cares for the club? That makes them amateur football players and not professionals. Ole may like United because he got his success as a player there and he may care for the club but not to the extend of damaging his life for sure.
He is there simply for the money now and nothing else. Otherwise he would have resigned by now. He is going to beat Brighton and a couple of other teams like Villa at home and the EL at home and then everyone will say we have turned a corner and then lose the next couple of games. This is a never ending cycle. We need someone now who can stabilise the club and get us into Europe.
People who support him say we are only 10 points from the CL spots while very conveniently forgetting that we are only 5 points from the relegation zone.

 

[romufc]

No one cares more about their job than themselves. That a large portion of our fanbase have deluded themselves into thinking that Ole loves this job more than himself and his making himself some sort of martyr by doing this clear out and what not, is nothing short of embarrassing.

For years our fans laughed at Liverpool fans for their nauseating sentimentality and extreme emotion over every little thing, but a lot of stuff I read on here isn’t very far from the fan fiction that lot used to write about Rafa.

We need to decide what we want.. sentiment or success.

I don't care if Ole is a nice guy or gets along well with players and other staff. Bottom line, as a Manchester United manager he is not good enough.

Secondly, all these comparisons about Klopp and Fergie when they first joined are embarrassing, which shows how deluded some fans are hoping Ole will miraculously turn a corner and become a good manager. Bottom line is, he has no credentials, no style of play. He has been at the club now almost a year and there has been no improvement.

We can all sit here and talk about his transfers and what not, bottom line is Ole did not push hard enough to get more players in and it his his fault we have no recognised striker and 0 creative talent.

There were players out there available in Donny, Ziyech, Bruno Fernandez available for £50m and less.