Last few games things are starting to look a lot better. We started that 2nd half a bit sloppy and were hanging on a bit, but we're starting to see a new team emerging. Pereira is now a much preferred option to Lingard (who really seems to have regressed). McTominay goes from strength to strength and if Ole can manage to keep his team fit it will be interesting to see how we manage against more defensive teams. I hope he's more clued up than he's appeared so far.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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We were dirt against Partizan. Last 2 games have been better but we don’t beat Bournemouth it’s back to square one
Been a decent week results wise, if he can continue like this through November and December he should keep his job. Not sure the performances have been much better except vs Norwich. Responded well to Chelsea's equaliser and the set up in the first half vs Liverpool was good.
So yeah, a decent week but having seen plenty false dawns under LVG and Jose we should wait before we start claiming he's turned it around because we've been dire all season and the tail end of last season.
So yeah, a decent week but having seen plenty false dawns under LVG and Jose we should wait before we start claiming he's turned it around because we've been dire all season and the tail end of last season.
Last season there was a video going around where a kid who's a united fan was asked who's his current favorite player. The kid said no one. Fast forward 8 months and if asked the same question, im sure there are going to be several contenders like Scott, Wan-Bissaka, James ect.. Ole is making us fall in love with the players again. That's the highest praise i could give him. The players are giving absolutely everything they can for the manager. Long may it last.
Norwich is an inferior team. And that's why that win was very important.
First of all, we beat Spurs 0-1 in an away game. Second, in that game, the whole team was happy to win because they scored exactly in the way Ole said we could score, and that was confirmed by Pogba, Rashford etc... that's what they worked on basically. And in that goal, it's Lingard who makes the deviation for Pogba to pass through. Third, Ole is always good in the first 45mn. We are either ahead or not losing, it's very rare for us to lose the game early or even give a lot of chances to the opposition. However, we were struggling in second half. If we are getting better, we will the games, because high level games are all about details only anyway.
But yeah, we are shit and Ole is shit etc etc... I know the drill. Am I doing this right?
Well done Ole. Terrific result away from home. Were starting to play like a team again.
I would like to see us start becoming more of a possession based / attacking team though. Over the years the likes of Mourinho and Ole have produced good results on the counter attack. But the true sign of our progress will be when we can impose ourselves on teams and take them on. That's when against teams that sit back well have no problem breaking down. Right now we specialise in needing space to run into and bigger teams tend to give that.
I would like to see us start becoming more of a possession based / attacking team though. Over the years the likes of Mourinho and Ole have produced good results on the counter attack. But the true sign of our progress will be when we can impose ourselves on teams and take them on. That's when against teams that sit back well have no problem breaking down. Right now we specialise in needing space to run into and bigger teams tend to give that.
Much like LVG.
Its all about adding layers of play. We dont have the sort of players where we can have a possession-based / all-out attacking approach... yet. I am sure Ole would like to but not with the missing components within this squad.
All we are trying to do this season is to build a foundation. Then we start adding next season.
The only reason why Ole can afford to do this rather than quick fixes is that I am sure he has been promised a long term stay.
The reason for Fergie's long record of success was simply because he was able to build a conveyer belt approach of young/academy types with emerging talents and the experienced players and rotate them up or out as they mature. This is long term planning.
There was only Fergie and Wenger, in the history of the League who was afforded this luxury... and yet Arsen failed miserably.
Hypothetical scenario. United get more injuries,struggle badly until January and fall out of the running for top 4. Ole signs another couple of good players in January and keeps improving the kids. Gets the team playing really well for the last few months but ends up finishing 5th.
Do you sack him?
Ole is pragmatic but his Molde team was not a counter attacking team, it's been documented a lot of times that his team was direct yet very possession oriented. We will get there eventually when we need to but we are absolutely not going to waste a direct attack opportunity if we see it, which in my opinion is the right decision in football.
Learning on the job. Best way there is.
He's changed the attitude. They fight for the shirt now. All that's required now is to keep improving the squad through good signings, promoting youth and improving current players. There's ample evidence of him doing all 3 of those things.
People just seem to think it should happen overnight for some reason
I voted sack,but I have noticed noticeable improvements in our last 3-4 matches.
(1) Mct and Fred are the best we have for the double pivot.
(2) Ole has finally realized that Pereira is not a winger and he's the best no 10 among Jling,Mata.
(3)We now play more passes between the lines than the sideway and backward passes we used to .
(4) He has droped his Jlingz,Mata and Matic (hopefully Young is the next).
(5) I loved the way we pressed Chelsea forcing their keeper to go long.
(5) Against Chelsea,he was on the touch line dishing out instructions,rather than doing a 'Moyes' he was doing before (I may be wrong,but the body language of a coach matters).
(6) The tactical switch/sub to back four when we were under pressure was good(Against Chelsea).
(7) I saw him gesticulating to the players to knock the ball around rather than the kick away we used to do (I think this is one of ways to manage a match when under pressure).
The things I expect Ole to improve on.
(1) He should develop a means to break down low defensive blocks.This is our major problem.
(2) Our build up should be faster and we should be able to switch play to drag opposition defenders out of positions.
(3) The CB pairing,I think that the best CB pairing is Maguire and AT,not Maguire and VNL.
(4) He should improve on his in-game management.
The Pogba Question
(1) Is Pogba 'wasted' as a double pivot?Does he offer enough(defensively )as one?
(2) Is he suited to a 4213 formation?
(3) Is he a no 10? If he's?will offer a better 'bite ' than Pereira?
(4) Should we switch to 433 when he returns?
(1) Mct and Fred are the best we have for the double pivot.
(2) Ole has finally realized that Pereira is not a winger and he's the best no 10 among Jling,Mata.
(3)We now play more passes between the lines than the sideway and backward passes we used to .
(4) He has droped his Jlingz,Mata and Matic (hopefully Young is the next).
(5) I loved the way we pressed Chelsea forcing their keeper to go long.
(5) Against Chelsea,he was on the touch line dishing out instructions,rather than doing a 'Moyes' he was doing before (I may be wrong,but the body language of a coach matters).
(6) The tactical switch/sub to back four when we were under pressure was good(Against Chelsea).
(7) I saw him gesticulating to the players to knock the ball around rather than the kick away we used to do (I think this is one of ways to manage a match when under pressure).
The things I expect Ole to improve on.
(1) He should develop a means to break down low defensive blocks.This is our major problem.
(2) Our build up should be faster and we should be able to switch play to drag opposition defenders out of positions.
(3) The CB pairing,I think that the best CB pairing is Maguire and AT,not Maguire and VNL.
(4) He should improve on his in-game management.
The Pogba Question
(1) Is Pogba 'wasted' as a double pivot?Does he offer enough(defensively )as one?
(2) Is he suited to a 4213 formation?
(3) Is he a no 10? If he's?will offer a better 'bite ' than Pereira?
(4) Should we switch to 433 when he returns?
Personally, I don't think it's a case of dropping/lowering standards because it's Ole, it's just that many of us realise just what a total mess the squad is and what a huge job it will be to rebuild it. In those circumstances it is to be expected that there will be a dip in form during that process. I am happy with what Ole has done so far with the squad and hope that he can continue the same way.
Just keep going until we hit January. The attacking unit is still useless. 1 or 2 attackers and we will definitely have something to build upon.
For the first time in a while seen him not only make the right subs but, also timing was right. The formation change I think helped us get back to being a bit more of a threat rather than just keep inviting pressure.
Will concede I've been critical even despite the injuries but, having the option to start with Lingard, even though not playing great, then bring on Martial and Perreira to change things up rather than throwing on some youngsters or players out of position certainly helped. That finally he is showing that he recognizes how flawed that constant 4-2-3-1 was and line up differently last few games is also a good sign. Need to see more of this to really convince because it's been a lot of games, even with full squad where he has been found wanting.
Will concede I've been critical even despite the injuries but, having the option to start with Lingard, even though not playing great, then bring on Martial and Perreira to change things up rather than throwing on some youngsters or players out of position certainly helped. That finally he is showing that he recognizes how flawed that constant 4-2-3-1 was and line up differently last few games is also a good sign. Need to see more of this to really convince because it's been a lot of games, even with full squad where he has been found wanting.
He has and it really really shows. Everyone is working their socks off for the other. His 3 signings have all been super hits and crowd favorites. For a change we have been linked to players who have potential rather than the default ones like Kroos or Bale ect.. I'm excited about the direction our club is going. There is a lot of things to be optimistic about.
Before Ole Gunnar Solskjær took charge, United hadn't won a game at Stamford Bridge since 2012.
He's won there twice in eight months. But let's keep on the moaning brigade.
The greatest of all Klopp and the mighty Poch played the most beautiful football in their first year with their respective clubs.
He's won there twice in eight months. But let's keep on the moaning brigade.
The greatest of all Klopp and the mighty Poch played the most beautiful football in their first year with their respective clubs.
Yep. Before it was the results that weren't good enough. Now we've put a little run of good games behind us it's now, waagh we're so boring there's no playing style. Makes you wonder really, what some people do really want.
Agreed. Us trying to play possession football with this group of players would be moronic, since we have exactly one player who is adept at handling the ball in tight spaces (Martial). Agree about the foundation part as well. If your midfielders and attackers are confident in the men behind them, its much easier to play with confidence and freedom going forward, and considering Ole spent 90% of his budget on defense this summer, its clear he wanted to build a solid base in the back.
Im hoping Williams can keep improving, because then we might have settled the LB spot as well. Shaw as much as i like him and want him to succeed here, has a terrible injury record and i doubt it will improve.
Im curios to see what Pogbas mood is once he gets back. If hes still dreaming about Madrid. he can feck off and hopefully we spend the cash on some quality replacements. Dont like slagging off Fred/Pereira after yesterday since they've been really solid of late, but honestly they should be squad options at best and i never think they will reach the required level if we are hoping to challenge Liverpool and City. McTomminay is quickly becoming my favorite player here. His effort is fantastic every time he steps onto the pitch, he oozes authority despite his age and hes not a half bad player either. Top lad
Big season ahead for Rashford, Martial and James. If they take the step up and deliver consistently good performances our attack could be settled for years.
People have been complaining about our play style since start of the season, what are you on?
The big shift I’ve seen this season is that the mentality is getting stronger! The likes of AWB, Maguire, James have definitely improved the squads mentality! Add to that kids like McT and Williams and we seem to have a group of leaders coming through! This is key before we start adding flair players to the squad in my opinion!
Nah - what actually drove LvG out was that all the players hated him and his style of play. He drove good players out and replaced them with players who weren't good enough - or players who were good enough but failed to show it at Old Trafford.
Nani, Zaha, Keane, Rafael, Evans - most of these players would have been more than good enough to play for United 2-3 seasons later. What was even worse was that the market-value of these players a few years later was probably £150 million - and we gave them away for £20 million simply because LvG was so desperate to get them out.
Bar Zaha, the rest of these players did absolutely nothing significant after leaving United. LVG did no wrong selling any players here. He did bought poorly though.
But it's right that we looked pretty clueless under him against midtable and inferior clubs. We used to keep possession and play sideways and back passes for the majority of the game not creating anything while the opposition hunts us on counters. On big games though most of times we delivered.
We heard the same rhetoric last season too - that Ole isn't focusing on possession because right now he can't and later he will. I haven't seen anything, other than the opening 2/3 games to suggest that he has a serious focus and emphasis on the progressive technical possession play that all the other too attacking coached instill in their teams.
I'd like to believe it will come but most of the quality managers implement their ideas stubbornly from the start because constant practice is the only way to perfect these things. Watch Pep when he began at City. Everyone kept badgering him for forcing a supposedly unsuited team to keep playing out from the back. However he pushed them to stick with and eventually they mastered his style of play. That's how all the modern coached do it. Only with Ole I'm seeing that he's going to turn on his preferred style of play like a switch in the future. I am highly skeptical of this happening.
Ole said many times that he wants his team to play forward passes quickly as soon as they win the ball. Going by that we won’t play possession football at all.
I have almost bleeped Pogba out of the team. The team is starting to have patterns developing. With Pogba as brilliant as his natural talent is, he can be disruptive to these patterns -- both need to accommodate his much loved left side of attack but also his meandering approach to attacking. Granted, it may lead to some beautiful attacks but in the main, its looking more disruptive as this squad progresses.
I’m telling you right now. LVG could play possession football with these same players.
It's an odd one. I'm excited by the off the pitch direction but the on the pitch direction is worrisome. If the latter is sorted then we're good to go. But Ole has to be a brilliant coach for that to happen. Let's see if he is.
It's always possible to impose your style on the team. LVG had trash players and while he failed he did it his way getting the players to play football in his image (sadly a past his prime image). Leicester were, if I'm not mistaken , a defensive counter attacking team prior to Rodgers and they play fornt foot football now. Sarri took over a chelsea team which had been managed by Jose and Conte. But within a month it was identifiable as a Sarri team. That's what I want to see from Ole. Results where we counter teams and win are great. But eventually he'll need to be a top class coach to succeed at United
Zidane somehow managed to win 3 CL's while doing nothing of the sort. Maybe there's more than one way to manage in modern football?
i) We have had LVG who stubbornly from the started tried to implement his ideas too.
ii) Pep had the luxury of chopping half his initial squad to bring in players suitable to his approach. It still wasnt done in one transfer window.
iii) We had such a hodgepodge group of players. One objective for his was to trim but also streamline the type of players he needs. Chop them deadwood (and the wage bill) and this will allow us some flexibility in how we go forward and who we bring in. Its a foundational approach to a re-build.
Not only were they better than the players LVG bought, they had the right mentality which Solskjaer is clearly trying to rebuild.
Credit where it is due. His in game management was good today and it prevented us losing our grip on the game.
I still don't believe that he's the guy for us in the long term but definitely can be trusted with a squad rebuild and developing an initial style of football.
The man does need to get till January with most of his key players being fit, because if any manager had to rely on mata, matic, lingard, Jones and Rojo for the first team, they are bound to fail.
I still don't believe that he's the guy for us in the long term but definitely can be trusted with a squad rebuild and developing an initial style of football.
The man does need to get till January with most of his key players being fit, because if any manager had to rely on mata, matic, lingard, Jones and Rojo for the first team, they are bound to fail.
However some coaches are not as ideological about their style of Play as LvG or Sarri or Pep. Like SAF for instance. I don’t think Ole is either. He seems to prefer playing on the front foot but will accept what the opposition allows. You’re good at keeping the ball? Ok we’ll defend well and try to keep you inert and counter when you let us have it. You wanna press us? Ok we’ll go direct. You wanna sit back? Ok we’ll keep possession and try to break you down.
I really don’t like this LvG or Sarri mindset of “philosophy”. And I think a lot of fans nowadays are a little blinkered by that.
Do you also not like the Pep or Klopp mindset of "philosophy"?
I take your point about SAF. But times have moved on from there from what I can see. A manager is first and foremost a coach these days, and we need to move forwards and meet the times rather than go back to the past. I fear well never really be successfully unless we get onboard the progressive football train. Also we were pretty brilliant in possession under SAF and didn't necessarily rely mostly on sitting back and countering. We excelled when we were on the front just as much as those odd occasions when we weren't. And let's not forget how incredible a motivator and manager he was. That is a rare quality.
Well, he probably could, but it would not work very well. His downfall here was ultimately a result of his poor recruitment and forcing his style on a group of players that was not fit for purpose. Same with Sarri and to some extent Wenger, who was clearly capable of getting a team to play according to their image in a very defined "style", but that did not mean they were always amazing, far from it.
The challenge in trying to play a possession based system is that you need a squad that is technically adept in tight spaces, is great at short passing and is well drilled and know each other really well. Right now we only have Martal and Mata that fits that bill, and the latter has lost his legs. Rashford, James, Pogba, McTomminay etc would not look at home in such a system.
The vast majority of managers are reactive rather than boneheaded idealists. Ferguson was that, Jose was/is that and Ole seems to be that. Nothing wrong with adapting your tactics and approach to your opponent. What matters is the scoreline, not your style score
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