Where are we under the "chances against"?
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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i’m sure Ole has a style and system that he is implementing. The problem i see is that Ole doesn’t have a style or system that is “winning” or has been proven to win. I’m sure the players are playing to his instructions. In this case, his non-proven ideas/style/system is proving to be inadequate.
LVG and Mourinho have been winning for years in different leagues and different teams at the highest levels. They have proven they can adjust to get the best out of a squad of players of whatever quality. In mourinho’s case, getting a poor squad to 2nd by playing the way he had to with what he’s got. These managers are experienced and have a system/style/ideas that they have proven out.
I don’t know what our fans were or are expecting from Ole. I love Ole to death and I love that he cares and loves our club. The problem is that he just doesn’t have what it takes to take us where we need to go. You can argue that he may learn in time and get better if given time but we are Manchester United. How much time and how much sliding down the table is acceptable while he learns on the job.
I listened to the post match interview over the weekend. He was so proud that the guy interviewing him pointing out that he was playing lots of academy players. He is naive if he thinks playing academy players without results will keep him in his job and that it is good enough for this massive club’s fan base.
But we have changed squads over the three managers as well. Only first team players that are constant are Mata and De Gea. So changing players doesn't work either it seems.
Yes there is. Re watch the first 3 or 4 games of the season and you will see. It's a direct, counter attacking style with a lot of focus in defensive stability. When in possesion it looks for direct through balls or over the defense, be it from mid or CDs, or overlaps with crosses low or high and mids that come to the edge of the box.
He’s nowhere near cut out for the job. As with every United fan, I’ll always love him as a player. But as a manager, he’s been appalling and people need to separate Ole the player and Ole the manager. I see far too much nostalgia amongst some fans which is clearly clouding their judgment.
They are sh3te. Under Ole or anyone else. You can be Sir Mat Busby you are not going to make Lingard a better player or Rashford make runs instead of hiding. All of our managers have had the same problems in attack with the same players.
You would take finishing 8th? Power to you. Most people fans of liverpool or not were calling him mister flop. If we reach the Europa league final and finish 8th...not even i would support Ole
Does that mean the manager's are not good enough to realise who is good and who isn't.
Rashford is clearly out of his depth, Lingard the less I say is better.
Why would you go into a season with Rashford as backup when you know he is rubbish and lingard as No. 10.
Overall we have a weak squad. There are some good youngsters but we don't have enough old heads to lead them. We have some good older heads like DeGea and Maguire, and Pogba when he s in the mood.
But not enough.
What's this going to be then fifth time lucky?
Do me a favour, if Ed is in anyway part of choosing the next manager then it'd be a joke, the guy needs to go long before Ole is shown the door.
Yes. That is it in a nut shell. You can bring any manager you want, it's not going to make Lingard, Mata ,Matic or Young any better then they are. This are our senior players meant to direct the youth. They can not. So the job at hand is monumental.
The reality is the team's bad and the manager looks even worse.
We needed five first team players in the summer but we only bought two (I'm not counting James as he's a LW and that is one of the few first team positions we didn't need), Ole also isn't as good as we hoped.
For me he's on the thinnest of ice, I wan't to give him a few games with Martial back as all through pre season and the first few games of the season we looked solid and dangerous. Putting Martial upfront was quite a big decision by Ole and he was a big reason for the decent play as well so he looks integral to Ole's vision.
If things pick up dramatically when Pogba and martial are back he can then get recruits for his system in and around those two positions (AM/CM, CF and if were lucky a RW) and we can then go from there.
Bottom line is he shouldn't go yet but he hasn't got much time left, it's all in Martials hands now for me
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We needed five first team players in the summer but we only bought two (I'm not counting James as he's a LW and that is one of the few first team positions we didn't need), Ole also isn't as good as we hoped.
For me he's on the thinnest of ice, I wan't to give him a few games with Martial back as all through pre season and the first few games of the season we looked solid and dangerous. Putting Martial upfront was quite a big decision by Ole and he was a big reason for the decent play as well so he looks integral to Ole's vision.
If things pick up dramatically when Pogba and martial are back he can then get recruits for his system in and around those two positions (AM/CM, CF and if were lucky a RW) and we can then go from there.
Bottom line is he shouldn't go yet but he hasn't got much time left, it's all in Martials hands now for me
.If someone thinks that changing the manager, without spending a further 200 million minimum, everything will turn around,
The problem is that in the past years the senior players in the team were not properly replaced.
Mourinho made it worse by signing ageing players like Sanchez and Matic for big money.
So now we have to replace the players that mourinho failed to properly replace - Jones and Mata plus the likes of Sanchez and Matic.
Ole or any other manager will need to.spend around 200 million before we are seriously competitive again. If Pogba leaves you can add another 100m to those.
The problem is that in the past years the senior players in the team were not properly replaced.
Mourinho made it worse by signing ageing players like Sanchez and Matic for big money.
So now we have to replace the players that mourinho failed to properly replace - Jones and Mata plus the likes of Sanchez and Matic.
I liked the approach of that Dutch club marching the scourge of their club out of the door the other week.
But in reality no I don't, I just think it's grossly unfair to keep blaming managers whilst he sits untouchable up on his perch.
Just compare it to his interview after the Everton shitshow at the back end of last season; the “some of these players won’t be here next year” one.
It looks like he’s realised that the board aren’t backing him properly and/or he simply isn’t up to it, and is now just going through the motions.
It's hardly an insult, fecking hell, get a grip. He's barely made 100 appearances his whole career (if that, even) and right now, he's shown very little to say he's even of the required standard in the first place. That's all I meant, I just chose to say it in a semi-humorous way. If it isn't your cup of tea, then fair enough. And I have no doubts he's giving it his all. Same with Young and even Mata. They aren't here because they're good at what they do, but because the people above them aren't good at theirs.
You choose to see it that way, but honestly, I just think a lot of them are just incapable of it. Matic hasn't shown he has it in him to be a progressive player, pretty much his whole career. Mata (as much as I love him) was never a 10 who you could build round. He thrived at Chelsea when they played on the counter and didn't demand the ball. He was someone who'd pass the ball sideways and make a run in behind. Also, confidence is a huge issue at the club. You can tell many of these players are mental midgets, and are shrinking once they get out on the pitch - they don't want to be the ones to make the mistake, but they fail to realise that if they tried the progressive option, no one would mind. You can see how Ole has us set up that he wants us to be progressive in midfield, but the players just aren't pulling it off. It's shit, but with this Frankenstein's monster of a squad, nothing that the majority of us didn't expect.
In your previous post you talked about the attack.
Under Mourinho we were 2nd and 6th. Never 17th as you claimed that it’s better under Ole.
Judging by the way he is these days, I think he knows the day is coming. He is low energy, passive and tired demeanor IMO are all signs of him knowing the sack is coming. Either that or he knows he’s in over his head. Look at him when he came here as caretaker and him now. Two very different appearances.
I still back him. Last thing we need is another manager change.
Its poor though. Should have at least come out last night and said we need to be better, much better.
Needs a good win against Newcastle as we wont beat the dippers.
I can understand his vision and we need more players. Pogba wants to move to Madrid so that needs to be sorted.
Like i say, i still back him, but would not be surprized if he is given his marching orders within six months to two years.
Hope to hell things pick up. Our lack of attacking nous is worrying though.
Its poor though. Should have at least come out last night and said we need to be better, much better.
Needs a good win against Newcastle as we wont beat the dippers.
I can understand his vision and we need more players. Pogba wants to move to Madrid so that needs to be sorted.
Like i say, i still back him, but would not be surprized if he is given his marching orders within six months to two years.
Hope to hell things pick up. Our lack of attacking nous is worrying though.
We need a big investment in order to be competitive again. But surely a good manager can get us to play decent football with a clear system even without it.
Over the last six years I've had the feeling that it doesn't matter which players we sign - none of them will look as good as he can be. And it's the same now. Better players will make us a better team. They won't make it good enough.
Over the last six years I've had the feeling that it doesn't matter which players we sign - none of them will look as good as he can be. And it's the same now. Better players will make us a better team. They won't make it good enough.
The last thing we need is to be bottom half and near relegation by Christmas which is looking likely if Ole continues as manager.
What happens if he comes out and say we need to be better, I dont give a shit about his comment and I am interested only in seeing actions. If he doesnt get his shit together in October and November then he should resign if he has some self respect left in him and wants to keep what is left of the fans love to him as a legendary player.
This. Also ridiculous to claim that the last thing we need is a manager change when our current one is responsible for the worst results and football I have ever seen from us.
I agree it’s not all Ole’s fault, in my opinion it’s in this order
Owners
Ed
Ole
Players
we have to address issues one by one, owners and Ed, is far unlikely, and almost impossible.. So next is ole, he should be replaced, I don’t see a point of keeping him past this point, and it feels his time is very limited at this point anyways, then the players little by little, January/summer, and the start of next season will see us improve (with a decent manager/players) then little by little improve on that.. I’m not looking for instant success, but some positives leading to us being good again. Maybe after that the board and Ed won’t be as big of a problem as they are right now(still a problem, but better than the shit we’re seeing now)
Owners
Ed
Ole
Players
we have to address issues one by one, owners and Ed, is far unlikely, and almost impossible.. So next is ole, he should be replaced, I don’t see a point of keeping him past this point, and it feels his time is very limited at this point anyways, then the players little by little, January/summer, and the start of next season will see us improve (with a decent manager/players) then little by little improve on that.. I’m not looking for instant success, but some positives leading to us being good again. Maybe after that the board and Ed won’t be as big of a problem as they are right now(still a problem, but better than the shit we’re seeing now)
2 finals in first season.
Top 4 in next 2 seasons. UCL runner up. Those were definitely huge progression in short amount of time
Ole beat Astana 1-0 wooo.
You double standard twat always want to twist the facts to fit your agenda.
I don't really care whether Ole stays or goes, fact is Ed is the bigger issue with his erratic decisions and lack of DoF / footballing structures above the coach. But we don't hear a peep of that on the forum and the real life likelihood of anything being done is probably low.
We are, whether we want to admit it or not, stuck in an Ed Woodward induced loop of mediocrity.
We are, whether we want to admit it or not, stuck in an Ed Woodward induced loop of mediocrity.
I’m one of the fans that support Ole, giving him a chance and patient enough to see him through the rebuilding phase. But I just don’t see much progress, I would understand more if we weren’t winning but playing entertaining football, game time adjustments, players being developed and properly coached. But so far it’s been a big let down and disappointment.
Sure he hasn’t been fully backed with the board in terms of replacements coming in, maybe some poor decisions on his part, and there are poor players in the squad but I would’ve expected some sort of adjustments, his sticking with a formation that isn’t working and for me I haven’t seen any growth in our players or tactical changes.
It’s starting to get a little tiresome hearing his press conference. His pointed out flaws and has said the correct things but same thing happens again. I am definitely starting to think his not the right person to lead this club through the rebuilding period but having faith in Woodward making the right appointments and footballing decision is another topic on its own.
Sure he hasn’t been fully backed with the board in terms of replacements coming in, maybe some poor decisions on his part, and there are poor players in the squad but I would’ve expected some sort of adjustments, his sticking with a formation that isn’t working and for me I haven’t seen any growth in our players or tactical changes.
It’s starting to get a little tiresome hearing his press conference. His pointed out flaws and has said the correct things but same thing happens again. I am definitely starting to think his not the right person to lead this club through the rebuilding period but having faith in Woodward making the right appointments and footballing decision is another topic on its own.
I would have to seriously consider whether I can go on supporting United if the club sacks Ole. He's being made to carry the can for half a dozen years of s-t decisions (and some are gobbling it like goblins! )
He does have an idea of how he wants us to play, and he's making a point about our squad by trying to play it despite not having the players to do it well. Its the only way he can rage against the machine since, unlike Mourinho, he ain't gonna come out and scortch the earth beneath himself.
The guy loves United so much that he's willing to make himself a target to try and save this club. Incredible to see our supporters getting at him for that.
)He does have an idea of how he wants us to play, and he's making a point about our squad by trying to play it despite not having the players to do it well. Its the only way he can rage against the machine since, unlike Mourinho, he ain't gonna come out and scortch the earth beneath himself.
The guy loves United so much that he's willing to make himself a target to try and save this club. Incredible to see our supporters getting at him for that.
You would take finishing 8th? Power to you. Most people fans of liverpool or not were calling him mister flop. If we reach the Europa league final and finish 8th...not even i would support Ole
Implementing an expansive style of football, reaching a European cup final and finishing 8th isn't abysmal, in my post I never said I would take finishing 8th, I was pointing out you’re wrong to say Klopp had an abysmal first season.
A lot of fans want an improved style of play and would take a lower finish, whilst scoring a bucket load of goals and winning comfortably away from home at times, which is what Klopp did. We have no god given right to finish champions or top 4.
When Ole came in, we were 6th, finished 6th. Liverpool were 10th when Klopp arrived, finished 8th. That’s an improvement, whilst implementing a style of football.
There is no comparison.. Klopp had pedigree and a style.
Ole as a manager does not have anything. Klopp is a big name, Ole is a nobody.
Klopp had previously improved players like Auba, Lewandowski, Gundogan, Reus etc,..
That is pathetic I wonder who is worse in the league
The same guy that moaned for most of the game against West Ham about how much money United have pissed up the wall and the guy who pissed up most of it was sat in the studio (Mourinho) and was never questioned or challenged by him?
How do you think that counters the point I was making?
The problem is not just those players, it is Rashford, Pogba and Martial....our " star" players are nowhere near good enough.
Excellent but scary post. And who is the common link to all the above? Woodward. Yet are questions being asked of him apart from on here and a bit in the media? Nope. Until he is moved to a corporate/ sponsorship only role we will continue the cycle. Add to your above the fact Ole was caretaker until the end of the season and only then would we appoint a permanent manager. Oh wait....
Bet he loves Ole, a yes man who's inexperience he can hide behind if he fails
Let's calm down a bit. Tied away on a terrible pitch. Played poor but our squad was essentially makeshift. Thanks to DeGea we have point away. Ok result i guess but bad performance. In the league we are 3 points from top 4, mainly because it's early days. Let's see if we can beat Newcastle, get on a bit of a winning streak and take it from there. Meanwhile, however, i think we should be looking at potential manager options just in case. Poch looks done at Spurs. Tuchel? Maybe a German manager? I'll let cooler heads prevail and give him the season, and no we will not be "relegated."
Fourth time is the charm
we are also 4 points away from relegation. We better get all 3 at newcastle because guarantee if we draw or somehow manage to lose liverpool will be out for blood against us.
And us for relegation, never know. All we heard leicester title season was how they had no chance of winning title. Eventually they would collapse, or others would overtake. You never know.
I think we should reappoint Ole as DOF, his signings have all made instant impactss, maybe that is a better fit for him and it would also solve our DOF position as well. Bring in an experienced successful manager for the coaching end of things and maybe we will start to head into the right direction
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