Good post.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Good post.
I think Ole should be judged only after the January window. He was promised a central midfielder over the summer but with Longstaff and Rice unavailable at any cost then we had to scrap that plan. He's stuck with a team that has zero midfield and not even Ferguson could do much with that garbage. Jose was happy to spend recklessly in a panic as he always does, and Ole has had to pick up the pieces.
I believe if we can get John McGinn in January or another player of that class, then we can save our season. Ole will hopefully have realized by now that Greenwood and Tuanzebe are the only young players ready for the first team, and possibly Williams eventually...... and that Fred, Mata and Pereira all need to be sold to the Chinese league ASAP. Martial and Shaw can not be relied on anymore either. Not professional enough and not mentally tough enough. With 1 really solid central midfielder we actually could be decent very quickly.
I believe if we can get John McGinn in January or another player of that class, then we can save our season. Ole will hopefully have realized by now that Greenwood and Tuanzebe are the only young players ready for the first team, and possibly Williams eventually...... and that Fred, Mata and Pereira all need to be sold to the Chinese league ASAP. Martial and Shaw can not be relied on anymore either. Not professional enough and not mentally tough enough. With 1 really solid central midfielder we actually could be decent very quickly.
De Gea
Wan-Bissaka Maguire Tuanzebe Williams
McGinn Scott Pogba
Rashford Greenwood James
Wan-Bissaka Maguire Tuanzebe Williams
McGinn Scott Pogba
Rashford Greenwood James
They talk the talk about dealing with a rebuild, but can't handle the actual consequences of it.
Look, I'm not even that sure if Ole is the man but the least he needs is the time to actually build something.
I don't think he has much choice to be totally honest.
O'Shea and Giggs had a decades experience behind them at the time.
Axel is not a DM.
Garner isn't ready.
Laird is injured and a fullback.
TFM is injured and useless.
I agree Gomes should have had more minutes. Greenwood is getting chances.
It's a bit wishful to think throwing the youth team at it will get results in the premier league. Axel, Greenwood and Gomes are the only ones ready this season as far as I'm concerned. Only one of them is a midfielder.
Simeone?
Yeah I’d hate it but from a pragmatic point of view I’m sure you’re right.
AWB and Maguire are both excellent defenders but I can’t see either of them being particularly wanted by a “progressive” manager. Then again, Trippier was a defensive liability for Spurs last season and is having no problems adapting to play for Simeone.
Especially considering when we're fully fit, our starting XI is the youngest in the league. Adding more inexperienced youth, who barely have the sum total of 90 minutes of first team experience between them is just asking for trouble.
The season may be a comparative free hit, but we still need to attain something at the end of it, otherwise Ole's out of a job.
Pep tried to sign Maguire didn't he?
He has to show signs that what he's building is worth sticking by, though. He's been here almost a year and we're getting worse by the game.
If I personally was even seeing a style of play coming to fruition - like with van Gaal - I'd be more lenient with the poor results, but I'm seeing nothing. Rochdale moved the ball better than us last night, and bar 3 players (Chong, Greenwood & Tuanzebe), that was an experienced team we had out. It's just not working.
Axel isn't a DM, JOS wasn't one either and neither were the likes of Pepe, Zouma, Phil Jones or Dani Alves when they were used there just to get the team through a tough match or a tough period. Its just a temporary solution that is more palatable than playing an ineffectual player who no longer tackles and takes ages to release the ball, at least until January. Like I said, we don't need 8 young players we need just three to remove those who are letting us down for the upteenth time. Bring Tuanzebe as DM, Greenwood and Gomes as forwards. If we play Tuanzebe at DM with McT as a defensive Box to Box mid we should expect to tighten up at the back and have more control of the midfield which makes it more feasible to shut out matches and win the majority 1-0.
Absolutely. Top 4 still needs to happen imo. Losing Pogba and Martial so quickly has been costly. We're very reliant on them. Martial was flying.
Ole's attempts to sign Longstaff, Erikssen and Dybala would suggest he was well aware of our problems in CM/AM. When he didn't get them I'm sure he hoped at least one of Matic, Mata, Fred, Pereira and Lingard could have played to a passable level to at least get us to January but they've all been completely useless. That's hard to deal with when they make up the creative hub of your team.
Gomes is the one option that might help turn things around but I dread to think what happens if McTomminay or Pogba get another injury. We've absolutely no choice but to sign a midfielder in January. I'm still shocked we didn't sign at least one this Summer. I fully believed we needed two.
I wouldn't have an ounce of faith in Axel as a DM.
Thing is right, I was thinking - our fans will hate it, myself included to see us play like George Graham's Arsenal. But is it any worse than what we are currently seeing under Ole? No it isn't! At least we might get some sense of solidarity and some vague feeling of progress even if we're bored to tears. What we are currently seeing is the worst of both worlds - bored to tears and regression, not progress.
My thinking is, our board have now made it quite clear that they aren't willing to spend much in a summer window, £70m or so net spend for the past two summers.
That will NOT get us better attackers. But it WILL get us a very, very good CDM that can hopefully play week in week out and provide solid cover for our back four.
It is sadly the only realistic way out of this mess, if i'm honest.
He also tried to sign Alexis and Fred.
It's completely depressing watching United at the minute. I agree, Solskjaer hasn't got us playing in any meaningful way which is a worry, given he's here quite a while now.
However, I'm willing to wait. We're nowhere near a title challenge so I'm willing to believe that there's a plan and I'm hoping that Ole is the man to implement it.
There have been some positives. His three signings have improved us. They, at least, are playing well this year. That's a positive and an indication that both Ole and our scouting have improved.
He has started the clear out. Fellaini, Lukaku, Valencia, Darmian, Sanchez weren't good enough and are rightly gone. He tried to get rid of Smalling. He seems to be done with Jones. These are all positives. He just hasn't been backed to replace them. Lukaku, Fellaini, Sanchez and Herrera (even if we should have kept him) all needed to be replaced with quality and weren't. They weren't good enough (apart maybe from Herrera) but getting rid and not getting in replacements is criminal and I can't imagine that was Ole's choice.
I'm hoping that given another window, another chance to clear out and hopefully replace players and build his squad, we can see improvements. I'd even give him the summer and really start judging him by next christmas. I know it's a long time to sit and wait, but chopping and changing managers clearly isn't working. We've been getting steadily worse for years.
However, I'm willing to wait. We're nowhere near a title challenge so I'm willing to believe that there's a plan and I'm hoping that Ole is the man to implement it.
There have been some positives. His three signings have improved us. They, at least, are playing well this year. That's a positive and an indication that both Ole and our scouting have improved.
He has started the clear out. Fellaini, Lukaku, Valencia, Darmian, Sanchez weren't good enough and are rightly gone. He tried to get rid of Smalling. He seems to be done with Jones. These are all positives. He just hasn't been backed to replace them. Lukaku, Fellaini, Sanchez and Herrera (even if we should have kept him) all needed to be replaced with quality and weren't. They weren't good enough (apart maybe from Herrera) but getting rid and not getting in replacements is criminal and I can't imagine that was Ole's choice.
I'm hoping that given another window, another chance to clear out and hopefully replace players and build his squad, we can see improvements. I'd even give him the summer and really start judging him by next christmas. I know it's a long time to sit and wait, but chopping and changing managers clearly isn't working. We've been getting steadily worse for years.
That's a little bit off topic mate
I don't see him as the Makalele reincarnated but I think he will be better than a Matic whose legs have gone. I don't think its acceptable to moan that so and so aren't good enough then continue playing them even if they are showing no signs of improvement.
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Not really. Judging a player on whether or not the press reckon Pep tried to sign them isn’t altogether foolproof. Anyway, Maguire‘s a good player. I’m not sure he’d be at his best in a high line though, which a “progressive” manager may well want.
Hmm, could it be that his superiors thought in their infinite wisdom that taking last season's squad which finished 6th and gutting it in midfield and attack has led to this situation?
Seriously, I don't know what you lot were expecting. He's making do with a shedload of injuries to key positions and an already decimated squad. No one would be able to get much coherence out of a Frankenstein's monster of a squad, that is comprised of players from now 5 different managers, all of whom have/had vastly different philosophies. Where Jose brought in 11, and LvG brought in 12, Ole has brought in only 3.
I wasn't judging the player.
The poster said a "progressive" manager wouldn't try to sign Maguire. I just pointed out that this wasn't the case.
Run off?More like bored reading same posts, posted 100 times.
Ole said he wanted replacement in mid july, Mandzukic was linked only 2-3 days before window closed when Lukaku to Juventus was on.
And no, wanting a replacement and having a plan for a striker is not same. Not sure where you checked it, maybe you should check again.
You’re only bored because this doesn’t make sense to you. But why would it, you probably believed in Moyes’s 6 year plan and you’ll probably believe in this until he’s sacked and you’re 100 percent for the new guy pretending everything you said for Ole didn’t exist.
I asked you a question at the end. Can I have your opinion please.
This.
Imagine hiring Moyes and then finding a way to hire an even worse manager.
I'd expect Axel to be worse than Matic. He isn't a CM and would likely really struggle in the more congested middle 3rd. I don't think it's a viable option.
Fully agreed with everything there, besides top 4 - I think the way that the board have taken an axe to the squad and wage bill, it suggests that they are preparing for us to be out the CL places for at least one, maybe even two years while Ole builds the squad from the ground up - Top 6, would be sufficient for Ole this season. I would also not be surprised if we went on and won the EL this season either, though it's still far too early in the day to be thinking about that. I also think that the penny has finally dropped that the football aspect of the club needs to be performing otherwise they can kiss goodbye to their commercial revenues.
The people blaming Ole for not signing a midfielder, when it's Ed and Matt Judge who do the negotiations are the most disengeneous people on this forum. He wanted a midfielder as the links to Longstaff show, and he was on record saying he wanted a replacement for any outgoing players, yet all of that is forgotten. I think the time is soon coming for Gomes to stake his claim, but honestly, he's so young and green to throw him in and give him such a massive burden of responsibility is risky in the extreme. This isn't an Ansu Fati who can feel free to make mistakes on the wing for Barca when he was Alba behind him, and Frenkie, Arthur, Busquets. Gomes would literally be the creative fulcrum of a struggling team, when he himself barely has 4 or 5 appearances himself.
I said it among my friends last night, but I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Ed went nuclear in January and brought in Dybala and Longstaff to try and rectify the errors he made in the summer.
It's shit, but that's what happens when you have 6 years of complete and utter mismanagement from top to bottom.
Fair play but I think he has the ball skills to do just about well in the role, I think to be worse than Matic one has to be really really bad at football - he is that bad.
No, I'm bored reading your pathetic posts, pulling posts out of your arse. As simple as that. FYI, I haven't supported any manager till the end of their term. Just because I don't blame everything on manager doesn't mean I back manager no matter what. It's called having balanced view on which one to blame on managers and which one to blame on board. If you even read posts, I said I have no hopes on Ole and he will be sacked but then again reading posts before replying is too much to expect.
Not sure what your question is and tbh I don't even care to check it back. If you want answer then post it again or just move on. It's hard enough to read your posts once, imagine having to read it again
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It'll be ignored in here though, like everything else.
I agree with what you have said though I think that people aren't angry with Ole because he isn't challenging for the PL, its the lack of progress in playing style coupled with poor results. We can lay blame on Woodward and does deserve a substantial portion of it but what we do on the pitch is entirely up to Ole. Compare ourselves with Chelsea who haven't had a transfer window, you can see what they are trying to whilst we just look clueless with the ball and end up giving it away. We are just too easy to play against, just hand us the possession of the ball and watch us literally crumble.
Spot on mate, and for what it's worth, I'm in the same boat. Ole may or may not be the right man for us but a lot of these people just don't look at the context. They simply don't want to.No, I'm bored reading your pathetic posts, pulling posts out of your arse. As simple as that. FYI, I haven't supported any manager till the end of their term. Just because I don't blame everything on manager doesn't mean I back manager no matter what. It's called having balanced view on which one to blame on managers and which one to blame on board.
Agenda posters like you are the reason why caf is becoming shit place to discuss anything. Not sure what your question is and tbh I don't even care to check it back. If you want answer then post it again or just move on. It's hard enough to read your posts once, imagine having to read it again
And the guy you quoted is the most pathetic of the lot.
I'm still backing Ole however; because you can see what he wants us to do, but the players are so devoid of confidence, and scared to make any mistakes that they overthink their passes and go for the safe option every time. We could hire a new manager and have that new manager bounce (which is very doubtful, the last time was more the fact that Ole was the anti-Jose than anything else - we certainly didn't get those bounces with Giggs, LvG, or Jose) but as soon as we come across the first bump in the road, these players will just revert to type. The experienced among them are cowards, and the younger ones are forced to take their lead. It's going to require time, patience and investment in real quality across the board.
This may be closer to the truth than you think.
Yeah, when you don't like someone just blame everything on him. So tedious.
Good that you are still backing Ole. I'm losing hope on him. Always said it, we shouldn't sacrifice league position and results for progress but we might end up with nothing. Ole has right ideas but shame he is not able to implement them. It will be awesome if Ole can turn it around but tbh I don't see it happening.
I'm sorry but regardless of the circumstances, there's no reason as to why Rochdale moved the ball better than us. Even before the injuries started piling up we were playing poorly.
In the near year he's been here, I've thought we played some nice football in only 3 games. Those were his first three. Since then, during the rest of the winning run and after, our football has been rubbish, imo.
He doesn't need a year and countless transfers to coach a team to have some semblance of style. He may need those things in order to perfect said style, but not to start the initial progress of implementing his ideas. We should be seeing signs of it by now and we're not. That's on him despite being poorly backed in the window just gone.
The playing style right now is poor. But then again the creative fulcrum of the team is so poor that you yourself have been suggesting we put a young CB into midfield in order to improve it. How can you coach your way out of that?
But the lack of progress and style is a direct result of this mish mash of a squad, and a deficiency in the professionalism of much of this squad. He's pretty much halfway through clearing out the players who are unsuited, or just plainly not good enough, but he couldn't do it wholesale because the board didn't back him anywhere near enough on the incomings.
We looked arguably worse under Jose last season who had £400m and 3 years to shape his team. Do you think he, one of the greatest managers in the modern era, didn't have a plan or set method and style of play? It's happened now with 4 different managers across 6 years. At some point, the penny has to drop, and we have to admit that not everything can be fixed with a change of manager.
Like I said, I'm not 100% sold on Ole being here in the long-term, but I like his ideas on how he wants us to play and his first 15 games showed to me just that. The issue was he never got the players he needed to play that way, especially after Herrera went. I'd give him the time to build and shape that squad ahead of anyone else because if it works out, it would be all the more sweeter than it would be under anyone else.
Dont know if he conducts his training the same fashion here as he did in Molde, but that's what he said at least. Regarding our coaches though, isn't a but unfair that they get called clueless and shite, when its simply no way of knowing for sure? As i said, i doubt Ferguson would keep Phelan around for years if he was utterly inept at coaching, so i just find it strange that blame gets shifted over to them when not a single one of us have any clue what they do at Carrington
Again, Ferguson trusted Phelan for years. Did he just forget how to coach? And i dont think there is a coach in the world that can create diamonds out of coal, and we have quite a bit of coal in our squad. The best a coach/manager can do it get a player to play to the best of his abilities. Its not like we have played amazing, swashbuckling football the last couple of years and its not like these players were great, then suddenly turned to shit this season. (Well some like Mata, Young and Matic, but thats because of age)
I can see what we are trying to do. The problem is that we lack the quality in the final ball or the finish to actually take those chances. If you take a look at that xG thread or any of our post match stats, you can see we have loads of the ball in good areas, but without Pogba and Rashford/Martial in form we really struggle to convert that possession into goals. As i also said, James has been our biggest attacking threat this season, and that says quite a lot i think about the (lack of) quality in this squad
No doubt morale is low right now among the players, but as mentioned several times in this thread, this squad lacks winners and leaders and having heads drop when we go down is not something new either, its been this way for a long time and i suspect a lot of these players simply dont have the bottle to be at an elite club. Certainly not right now
The thing is, we had four managers now in 7 year, one of them being one of the most successful managers alive and i just find it absurd that they and their coaches should take the majority of the blame when the only constant over this period has been Ed and a bunch of these under performing players. If Ole got sacked and we got a new manager and coaching team that suddenly turned us into league contenders, nothing would make me happier, but i firmly believe that is impossible in our current situation. Because that new manager still would have to rely on the likes of Fred, Pereira, Lingaard, Young, Matic and a bunch of unproven youngsters and no amount of coaching in the world would make them top flight players this season
Everyone here seems to agree on that we are in/need a complete rebuild, but it seems very few are able to handle the consequences of that rebuild
ffs give the guy some time...
let him build his team..
let him implement his tactics..
let him do things his way..
i hardly ever comment here any more.. as all i read from the majority of posters is childish, self entitled, non patient whinging ..
let him build his team..
let him implement his tactics..
let him do things his way..
i hardly ever comment here any more.. as all i read from the majority of posters is childish, self entitled, non patient whinging ..
Based on what? Who didn't the board give him or didn't deliver? Dybala didn't want to come for various reasons.Did we have any other targets which the board failed to deliver?
We haven't looked worse at any time in the last 7 years compared to what we've seen since March.
I wouldn't place the blame on him for that. This squad is mentally broken and needs to be phased out. We can see when they have confidence they are good players, but that confidence is so fragile that any slight bump just breaks them down.
Before the season started I said that we would start off patchily but steadily improve as the season progresses. Unfortunately with the injuries that's been exacerbated, but I think once Martial, Pogba and Rashford are back fit and firing, we'll see a better United and we can restart that progression.
Also, I initially thought we'd finish 5th but I wasn't expecting Spurs and Arsenal to be as poor as they are, and tbf I was expecting Chelsea to be poorer - but as it is, all four of us are so inconsistent and have our own issues, that rather than having one spot up for grabs, we have two and with those teams having bigger issues than we do (I do think attacking issues can be more easily rectified than defensive ones, and that a good defence is a better foundation upon which to build than an attacking one), I do feel that we can be there or thereabouts at the end of the season.
I'm hopeful that Ed can see at this stage how bad things are in that position and that the club is actively scouting for that position.
I'm actually fairly optimistic in the long term. Some of the kids coming through are of much higher level than we've had in a long long time and the quality of Ole's signings this summer bodes very well. We could potentially have an very good squad in a couple of seasons if people can just have some patience.
But in the short term we are monumentally fecked if they don't sort out the midfield asap. I wanted us to overpay for Longstaff this summer if necessary for that exact reason. It was as plain as day what we were potentially in for. January is absolutely pivotal.
I can't believe I have to repeat this, but he was on record as saying that any outgoings needed to be replaced - Dybala, Mandzukic were both strongly in the frame at one point or another. There were also well documented links with Longstaff.
I'm not going to respond to your last point, because it's subjective, but respectfully, I disagree.
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