But Ole doesn't sign the players...what's to get here?
My gripe with Ole is poor subs and not giving Gomes a chance at no.10 yet, but he has them playing good stuff on the whole so let's just see how the season progresses.
And what was that point? Why compare Ole to Poch whilst it's pretty much clear that both are very different tier of managers?
If Ole is fired in a month or two which top team will be after him?
UD is spot on with that. If there is a chance we can swap Poch with Ole would you take it?
Because one of the teams have made it to top 4 in 4 out of the last 5 years. That team has proven track record and the same manager in the last 5 years. When May comes you know Spurs are more likely to be top 4.Alright I'll do this again: Tottenham and Manchester United both lost at home against bad opposition. Both teams have come away with great results earlier in season. Why are everyone panicking?
I think we are playing better football. Certainly than under Jose in his final season.We're not playing better football mate. In LvG first season we did go on a 10 games unbeaten run. In the Spring we beat Liverpool at their turf, blitzed past Tottenham and played as good as I've seen us against City beating them 4-2.
People tend to only see the negatives when the manager is gone and fail to see the reality when he's still at helm.
In the season we finished 2nd under Jose we started the season with 11 wins out of 16 and in half of those we were scoring 4 per game.
There's no tactical plan on the pitch and likely go worse. With Poch things are different as he has proven himself as said and he has some leeway, and especially considering he got CL spot and also reached CL final, hence those results doesn't reflect fairly on him. On the other hand we didn't get CL and we didn't reach CL final which makes those results from last season worse.
As I've said in multiple threads - the plan was get a DoF to appoint the next manager after Ole. However we abandoned that and seems that fans are happy with Ole and no DoF as, if we keep Ole most likely we will keep the same structure.
The problem isn't only the manager, but the manager and his ineptitude is also a problem. Since we can't get rid of Woodward, what else do you suggest?
To be close to rebuild we need a world class manager with a clear plan for us to get behind. Ole is not that man and never has been.
We need to face reality - you said that the club is in a better state, how exactly so? Our best players want to leave, players like Dybala and Sancho doesn't want to be here due to lack of CL and most likely they don't buy or project.
You talk about rebuilding job one at a time, but fast forward next season and we lose De Gea and Pogba, then what?
He had to identify backup options and we had to sign players as stop gaps if it wasn't our top options. Apart from Longstaff we have been barely linked with CM's or DM's which goes to show that we didn't really work in that direction.
From what I've seen of Gomes is way too early to depend on him.
Probably our best bet if we're to continue with this 4-2-3-1 is Mata at #10.
He had to identify backup options and we had to sign players as stop gaps if it wasn't our top options. Apart from Longstaff we have been barely linked with CM's or DM's which goes to show that we didn't really work in that direction.
From what I've seen of Gomes is way too early to depend on him.
Probably our best bet if we're to continue with this 4-2-3-1 is Mata at #10.
Sign players as stop gaps? Stop Gaps???? - You buy players to upgrade the squad, why on earth do you invest £40-50 million into a "stop gap" player that improves the quality of the squad? What is a stop gap player even, a player that's close to retirement, or we sell on the next season?
You, and me for that matter, don't know the slightest thing that goes on with the clubs transfer business apart from what Tier 1 sources report, since they are the only ones with credibility. The club targeted Jadon Sancho first thing in the window. The Dortmund boss told Ed that was not a topic of discussion, and if you believe the gossip, Sancho did not want to play EL.
The manager and his coaching staff are trying to build a team that can function a certain way. A criteria for all players in this Manchester United squad is that you have a) Pace b) ball ability c) young. Young players that you can build a foundation on. not 34 year old's that hinder the playtime for younger players.
Like, I just don't understand this wild sense of entitlement. Everyone in the club has been adamant that this will take several windows to rectify, there is no short term solution here. Yet so many put on their surprise pikachu faces when we don't buy 8 players. Guys, they TOLD you in May that this was going to take time.
We have no idea how many players we enquired or spoke to. But judging from the players we tried to get here in the form of Chrisitan Eriksen, Paulo Dybala, Jadon Sancho, etc. It's not for a lack of trying. But hey you know what, if we don't get the player we want, we don't sign someone else, we work with what we have and go again. We're not investing in second best option.
I saw a poster comment yesterday that "We spent an insane amount of money to marginally improve our defense.." - Marginally. AWB is going to end up on PL team of the season at this rate.
Sadly Mata still is our best #10 at the club. Gomes is a gamble and we can try him in home games, but asking him to start week in and week out puts a lot of pressure on the young lad.I'll say it again, he isn't in charge of signings, he just says what he'd like and Woody has to go and do it.
And no, Mata is done, he's not our best bet anywhere. Gomes needs the opportunity to show what he can do. Then if it's not good enough we need to put Woody's hand in his pocket again.
Point was if we're to compare how we played under LvG and Jose in the beginning of their spells - we are not and we aren't getting better results either. Sure we are playing better football now than in Jose's last year, but that's natural and it's why he got the sack.I think we are playing better football. Certainly than under Jose in his final season.
There's no tactical plan? What on earth makes you think that?
Right so when Poch bottles it with superior players than Ole has against a team that's worse than the one Ole faced the result doesn't reflect fairly on him but just because Ole has less experience it does reflect fairly on him? Interesting point of view. Also, we lost out on the top four because Jose bottled it pre-Ole. Agree to disagree?
Ole might not be a proven world class manager but he clearly has a plan. We tried the "world class manager" approach with LvG and Mou and as you know they both failed. I don't want to go down that road again. What makes you think the fans are happy without a DoF? Pretty much everyone on here at least still wants a DoF to come in. You say Dybala didn't want to be here, yet his agent said the problem was the clubs couldn't reach an agreement. The issues with the players that don't seem to want to be here now (De Gea and Pogba) far predate Ole's arrival. That's nothing to do with him. To answer your question, if we lose DDG and Pogba we replace them. We've a very promising young keeper in Henderson who's getting a season of PL experience under his belt and it seems we're interested in Maddison to replace Pogba next season. Good players have left us in the past and they will again. It's nothing new. And if DDG doesn't regain his form from two years ago we might be better off without him anyway.
Club and manager said before the window that we most likely will bring 5-6 new faces. We brought in 3(one inexperienced) so it's hardly surprising people put pikachu faces.
By stop gap I mean players that are ready to improve the first team and contribute this season. This has nothing to do with interfering and stopping young players development. They will most likely facilitate it and help it.
Are you ok with throwing 17 years old in the deep end and ask them to perform as seasoned pros?
Second best option is better than no option at all. We can loan players just look at what other teams are doing.
Sadly Mata still is our best #10 at the club. Gomes is a gamble and we can try him in home games, but asking him to start week in and week out puts a lot of pressure on the young lad.
Why refer to the pre season friendly’s but ignore last seasons results? I think the results from last season counted and do count more than the pre season games. We didn’t have Slab Head for the friendly matches so I would ignore them as they mean nothing.I can't believe people mentioning his record from last season until now. I mean why? Propaganda at its best.
New season, new slate, new optimism. Give him time, please.
EDIT:
What's worse is that people neglecting the friendlies results. What is that? Even Fergie took friendly wins seriously.
That of course is a non brainer. Considering that he took significant part in pre-season the only reason why he isn't getting game time is possibly Lingard's work rate and pressing. He can't be worse in any other department.And he's up for the pressure for sure. Kid's a champ in the making. The absolute least we could is give him 20 minutes off the bench when Lingard's doing nothing.
That of course is a non brainer. Considering that he took significant part in pre-season the only reason why he isn't getting game time is possibly Lingard's work rate and pressing. He can't be worse in any other department.
As a neutral fan. I must say this is the first time in many years I am impressed with United. Finally they want to built a young team without spending way too much money on bad old players. And yes, this takes time. But it's the best thing that has happened since Ferguson by fay.
The results aren't there yet, but I am also impressed with Ole. He really wants to built on long term and also shows in other aspects that he is a very talented manager. As a United fan, I would be relieved after all those years.
I love the tactic:
De Gea (Spa, 28)
Wan-Bissaka (Eng, 21) - Lindelöf (Swe, 25) - Maguire (Eng, 26) - Shaw (Eng, 24)
Pogba (Fra, 26) - McTominay (Sco, 22)
Lingard (Eng, 26)
James (Wal, 21) - Martial (Fra, 23) - Rashford (Eng, 21)
It reminds me of a starting Alex Ferguson. Only problem is that the number 10 position is vital in this, and I think Lingard is not enough if you want to win the PL title. But Pereira (Bra, 23) could help a lot. And maybe buy a young world class 10.
I can see him being scared into not playing him due to his size.I don't mind it in the big games if Ole wants crazy pressing, fair enough. But against a parked bus or at the end of the game when we need a goal we have to give Gomes his chance.
The silly thing is dan James isn’t much bigger.I can see him being scared into not playing him due to his size.
He looked good against Spurs in pre season
After he signed Maguire and Wan-Bissaka and hammered Chelsea the tone here was very different. You might want to revisit the Cafe comments showering accolades on Ole.It's been about 7 months since anyone was hailing Ole as brilliant etc., and even then that was most people just being happy that Jose had gone.
As others said maybe it's because of his frame and he might get bullied. He is the type that would help against packed defence and is what we're missing in those scenarios.I don't mind it in the big games if Ole wants crazy pressing, fair enough. But against a parked bus or at the end of the game when we need a goal we have to give Gomes his chance.
If they are seriously trying to emulate City/Liverpool then the hard work must be done in training.The silly thing is dan James isn’t much bigger.
I feel like ole just maybe doesn’t appreciate the technical players, he seems to prefer the fast ones.
Compare what Madrid have achieved since Fergie retired and what we have.
How much time do we give him? Why didn't we give Moyes 6 seasons then?
I honestly couldn't give a flying you know what, I will never want United to be like Madrid!
They are a scummy club and their supporters a bunch of self entitled, arrogant knobs who abuse their players, sounds ideal for you to support judging by your comments on this thread.
If your so unhappy with United, why bother with them?
You keep harping on about Real, wouldn't it suggest you prefer their ideals? Why not simply support them instead of spending your days miserable and posting nonsense on here?
Fans are so fickle it's hilarious. It doesn't take much for them to turn against their manager. One day they hail him as the best thing since sliced bread, the next day they want his neck on the chopping block. Pure comedy.
Have you guys seen how our rivals play? Especially Liverpool? Now that's a well coached team play though. Have they been obsessed with 'DNA FC' thingy? Surely no. Because? The world is changing and so does football, when we gonna start moving forward ? Wish we had manager that plays different dimension of football rather than counter attacking and clueless to break down teams that sit deep.
This is a typical Caf post these days, it didn´t really go all that well for him this weekend did it?We should go for Poch next summer. But admittingly it would be a step down career wise for him, why the feck would he want to walk into this mess? So well either bring in an ex United player to manage us, Allegri, or bring Mourinho back. Either way we are doomed.
What's really concerning with Ole's time as the manager so far is that our best games under him have been the first few games immediately after he took over. Mourinho had checked out when Ed didn't give him the players he wanted, and was clearly feuding with some of the players. When he was fired, the players were happy to go out there and prove themselves under a new, very positive manager. However, since the honeymoon period was over, we've been dire without showing signs of progress.
Compare that to Guardiola and Klopp, where they had rough starts but you could clearly see their direction and their teams kept improving to where they are now.
Have you guys seen how our rivals play? Especially Liverpool? Now that's a well coached team play though. Have they been obsessed with 'DNA FC' thingy? Surely no. Because? The world is changing and so does football, when we gonna start moving forward ? Wish we had manager that plays different dimension of football rather than counter attacking and clueless to break down teams that sit deep.
This is my biggest beef with ole so far.That’s obviously not going to happen any time soon though.
This is my biggest beef with ole so far.
Gomes did well in preseason when given the chance and he’s different (in a good way) to anything else we have, yet he’s not even made the bench so far.
I'll just leave this here...
You answered your own question there.It does put things into perspective. He has long been mentioned as the ideal replacement, and he is on an equally poor run of form as that which Ole is being questioned for.
Obviously his track record is much greater than Ole's, you cannot compare them in that sense. But perhaps it goes to show that it's too early to form a definite opinion on Ole. I'm sure most expect Pochettino to turn it around, so why would Ole not be able to do so as well?
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I don't see any evidence that points toward Ole not being able to turn it around. How can anyone be sure of that?You answered your own question there.
No but Poch has a significantly better record as a manager than Ole and has gotten Spurs out of plenty of poor runs of form before. naturally people will assume Poch is the more likely of the two to turn things around.I don't see any evidence that points toward Ole not being able to turn it around. How can anyone be sure of that?
That's why I think the most sensible thing is to judge him at the end of the season (or after a significant portion of it).
No but Poch has a significantly better record as a manager than Ole and has gotten Spurs out of plenty of poor runs of form before. naturally people will assume Poch is the more likely of the two to turn things around.
Ole might do it but it's impossible to know. I sure as shite hope he does.
I fully agree with the assumption that Pochettino is more likely to do it. I guess the point is that it's not a hopeless situation to turn around, and it's one that even the best managers can find themselves in.No but Poch has a significantly better record as a manager than Ole and has gotten Spurs out of plenty of poor runs of form before. naturally people will assume Poch is the more likely of the two to turn things around.
Ole might do it but it's impossible to know. I sure as shite hope he does.
