Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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I think we all know that Ole's hands are tied with regards to transfer funds. However, he has to take full responsibility with his myopic view of having a British core when they are quality players available to improve our midfield. We had a relatively easy first 3 games and i can't blame the fans for booing when our football shows naivety and a lack of flexibility. That is 100% on Ole, club legend or not.
 
I have a bunch of contradictory thoughts

Don't think Ole is good enough.
But we have been alright so far in these 3 games.
Nevertheless that's what happens to bad teams which is what I think we are relatively speaking.
Still think Ole won't be here after Dec.
 
owlo said:
Was it the Glazers who made Fellaini and Lukaku leave, or OGS who pushed them out? If it's the Glazers, I'm wrong for sure. But we both know it wasn't. Won't blame him for Herrera as he was quite powerless there.

Blaming them completely is as absurd as not at all. They have invested recently, just in the wrong players. Whether more should have been invested is neither here nor there; it's the manager who decides the squad.
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You want to blame Ole for getting rid of Fellaini and Lukaku? You should be applauding him for it based on last season. Obviously we wanted to make a transition from the those types of players, and we found buyers. Probably Lingard and Shaw too might be on the list very soon. Then you have Rojo, Darmian, Jones and Young who we haven't managed to move on. We are rebuilding, which the owners now know can be a painfully expensive affair, if done too quickly. It definitely is a money issue for them and sadly for the fans, this means we'll have to wait a lot longer than probably needed to get a good squad together. However, I do believe it is a positive side to that as well because we're not just throwing money at the problem but instead build to make better use of our recruitment in conjunction with development of those signings and youth as well. Not something you'll want to read about in a newspaper, it is not dramatic or overly negative or positive. It is just what is happening so not much to do for us fans than wait and see what comes.

I think we need a guy like Ole around, even if he is unproved as a manager at the top level. I don't trust the owners at all, and I know that Ole is probably the most level headed United-fan ever, which might count for a lot in our current situation where we need to make sure consistently good decisions that benefit the club are being made, from the top to the bottom. Any tactical shortcomings he might display as a manager I'm prepared to forgive as long as we keep seeing improvements and a clear vision.
 
I just feel Ole's ideas on football don't seem to be as progressive and impressive as we a hoped they would be.

In terms of controlling possession, we wanted the new manager to prioritise quick short passing and being able to recycle the ball in tight areas. Yet he's got Scott McTominay as our first choice CM part of a two man midfield and seemingly lowering reliance on midfield in an era where midfield is king.

The more I see his Manchester United the less progressive they seem. The less modern they seem. We've signed pure pace in attack, in midfield we've gone for brute force, and if anything we seem to be trying to bypass midfield play. It all seems a little odd to me.
 
I'd say give him this season to prove his worth. If it's clear that he's not good enough by Christmas, then get rid then only.
 
Feed Me said:
Absolutely, cannot blame him for taking the opportunity of a lifetime
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I don't get I though. He's got very talented coaches working under him. One of who was brilliant for SAF (okay a different era) but also McKenna who got the youth teams playing swashbuckling football. Why, with all this talent, can't we at least play cohesive modern football? On the other hand, Lampard's Chelsea has brought it to the table in 2 minutes (could be like our Cardiff game of course).
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I don't get I though. He's got very talented coaches working under him. One of who was brilliant for SAF (okay a different era) but also McKenna who got the youth teams playing swashbuckling football. Why, with all this talent, can't we at least play cohesive modern football? On the other hand, Lampard's Chelsea has brought it to the table in 2 minutes (could be like our Cardiff game of course).
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I always felt like our football got worse once Phelan succeeded Quieroz.

There's rumors that our Cardiff performance and early performances were based on the imprint of McKenna and Carrick and slowly over time, Ole stamped his mark on the side(which oddly coincided with our football getting worse).
 
SouthPredators4 said:
I think we all know that Ole's hands are tied with regards to transfer funds. However, he has to take full responsibility with his myopic view of having a British core when they are quality players available to improve our midfield. We had a relatively easy first 3 games and i can't blame the fans for booing when our football shows naivety and a lack of flexibility. That is 100% on Ole, club legend or not.
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I'd love to blame the Glaziers and Ed. And I do for many things such as the overall direction of the club. However, we spent a decent amount this summer and you really don't need to spend all that much, if anything, to play cohesive structurally strong football. Sure, if you don't spend you can finish 5th. But you shouldn't use it as an excuse to playing wank as a TEAM. Even 12th place sides manage to play collectively well if they're managed well.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
What earlier post? I wasnt part of the discussion either. Had know idea they were talking about players from this league only, and I also said I dont agree with that link anyway. So I dont know what you are on about.
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My bad.
I thought the posts came from the same person. Apologies.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
I always felt like our football got worse once Phelan succeeded Quieroz.

There's rumors that our Cardiff performance and early performances were based on the imprint of McKenna and Carrick and slowly over time, Ole stamped his mark on the side(which oddly coincided with our football getting worse).
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Hmmm. Could be. If anything, Ole appears more old school than progressive to me. The focus appears to be on British, winning/strong mentality, running, physicality, rapid attack (counter attack with little possession retention). And it's evidenced by the players he starts and signs.

It's a shame if that's the case as we all wanted the other type of coach.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I'd say give him this season to prove his worth. If it's clear that he's not good enough by Christmas, then get rid then only.
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Quick to hire, slow to fire. Its a tricky game.

What are the chances we have a list of potential successors at this moment? I mean, we were supposed to have this long and thorough search after Jose was sacked. I wonder if anyone actually did the damn work. Or maybe it's like this DOF search.
 
Sacking the manager is pointless at this point and with this team. I am not a big fan of little Ole but he stood no chance really. You don't dismantle the team and then expect him to perform.
 
First. Was ole really any good? Beyond the assumption that he's modern and attacking, young and united thru and thru, does he really has the credential to manage united through our toughest time? People think barcelona just happens to appoint pep out of the blue, always discounting that maybe their board has keep an eye out for him, or that maybe he's groomed and nurtured to become manager.
 
Sterling Archer said:
Quick to hire, slow to fire. Its a tricky game.

What are the chances we have a list of potential successors at this moment? I mean, we were supposed to have this long and thorough search after Jose was sacked. I wonder if anyone actually did the damn work. Or maybe it's like this DOF search.
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I have no idea to be honest. Neither does the club, though, it seems. We just go for the most obvious candidates, usually. And you're right there was supposed to be thorough search. My guess is it never happened and obvious Poch Vs Ole was the best we could do with our 'thorough search'. If Ole goes I'm sure it'll be Zidane Vs McKenna. We don't really seem to have any interesting ideas in this regard.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I just feel Ole's ideas on football don't seem to be as progressive and impressive as we a hoped they would be.

In terms of controlling possession, we wanted the new manager to prioritise quick short passing and being able to recycle the ball in tight areas. Yet he's got Scott McTominay as our first choice CM part of a two man midfield and seemingly lowering reliance on midfield in an era where midfield is king.

The more I see his Manchester United the less progressive they seem. The less modern they seem. We've signed pure pace in attack, in midfield we've gone for brute force, and if anything we seem to be trying to bypass midfield play. It all seems a little odd to me.
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His idea seems to be get a British core. The fact we couldn’t identify another midfielder besides Longstaff was alarming. Why target him? Or if rumours are correct we waiting for Sancho next season. What’s the point? We need players for the now not next year when we spent another season outside the top four and why would Sancho want to join us?

Also was never a big fan of Mike Phelan. When Querioz was here we actually cared about the midfield. But once he left he seemed to have taken the midfield with him. If Ole is trying to replicate Fergie then it’s not going to work. I mean we could bypass midfield play if we had three brilliant superstars up front who create or score out of nothing. But we don’t have one.

Also what’s the point of loaning Sanchez and paying most his wages? Just seems totally pointless move.
 
I see him as an extended caretaker manager tbh. Theres so much work behind the scenes and with the squad to be done that i'm not sure he's a terrible choice as an interim manager. I kind of like the signings he's made tbh, I like the atmosphere around the team a hell of a lot more than a year ago. I like being largely ignorant of his pre and post match press conferences and how few stories he creates. This thread was made in May and he wasn't backed anyway, so the thread title feels a bit redundant now.
 
MikeKing said:
You want to blame Ole for getting rid of Fellaini and Lukaku? You should be applauding him for it based on last season. Obviously we wanted to make a transition from the those types of players, and we found buyers. Probably Lingard and Shaw too might be on the list very soon. Then you have Rojo, Darmian, Jones and Young who we haven't managed to move on. We are rebuilding, which the owners now know can be a painfully expensive affair, if done too quickly. It definitely is a money issue for them and sadly for the fans, this means we'll have to wait a lot longer than probably needed to get a good squad together. However, I do believe it is a positive side to that as well because we're not just throwing money at the problem but instead build to make better use of our recruitment in conjunction with development of those signings and youth as well. Not something you'll want to read about in a newspaper, it is not dramatic or overly negative or positive. It is just what is happening so not much to do for us fans than wait and see what comes.

I think we need a guy like Ole around, even if he is unproved as a manager at the top level. I don't trust the owners at all, and I know that Ole is probably the most level headed United-fan ever, which might count for a lot in our current situation where we need to make sure consistently good decisions that benefit the club are being made, from the top to the bottom. Any tactical shortcomings he might display as a manager I'm prepared to forgive as long as we keep seeing improvements and a clear vision.
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Yep. You get rid without replacing, and put that responsibility on kids, it's on you in my book. Both were functional without being awe inspiring.

As a rough analogy. When I wanted to move my business upmarket, I didn't fire or release middling ability technicians in the hope that a few bright apprentices would be able to bridge the gap until I got in the appropriate experts at an undefined point in the future. And there are probably more [available at a reasonable sum] expert numismatists in the world than leading football stars.
 
The strange thing is we sold Lukaku but wanted to move him on a swap with Dybala. That had fallen through. Then we had some talks with Eriksen. So our scouts could only identify two players in these positions? Why didn’t we sign someone? Biggest mystery of the summer.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I have no idea to be honest. Neither does the club, though, it seems. We just go for the most obvious candidates, usually. And you're right there was supposed to be thorough search. My guess is it never happened and obvious Poch Vs Ole was the best we could do with our 'thorough search'. If Ole goes I'm sure it'll be Zidane Vs McKenna. We don't really seem to have any interesting ideas in this regard.
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Sigh. Yeah. What's the deal with McKenna? Heard rave reviews about his time with the academy. It's not the easiest to tell his level of influence now. Though I've been hotly anticipating Fred's Phoenix moment because I recall reading he was a McKenna recommended buy. Hoping he gets Ole to use him to his best effect.

I have to say I'd hands down go for Poch if Ole is dismissed. You'd think Woodward would love his history of working on a modest budget.
 
Bojan11 said:
His idea seems to be get a British core. The fact we couldn’t identify another midfielder besides Longstaff was alarming. Why target him? Or if rumours are correct we waiting for Sancho next season. What’s the point? We need players for the now not next year when we spent another season outside the top four and why would Sancho want to join us?

Also was never a big fan of Mike Phelan. When Querioz was here we actually cared about the midfield. But once he left he seemed to have taken the midfield with him. If Ole is trying to replicate Fergie then it’s not going to work. I mean we could bypass midfield play if we had three brilliant superstars up front who create or score out of nothing. But we don’t have one.

Also what’s the point of loaning Sanchez and paying most his wages? Just seems totally pointless move.
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He seems obsessed with EPL based players which isn't really a smart move considering how much they cost. Its evident that Ole needs guidance. He needs a top DOF to target the right players for him, a world class negotiator and a technical director to sit between little Ole and the board to make sure he's got the right people in the job. Ole should be nothing but a head coach at this early point of his career. Then when and if he shows promise then he should get more responsibilities.
 
Bojan11 said:
The strange thing is we sold Lukaku but wanted to move him on a swap with Dybala. That had fallen through. Then we had some talks with Eriksen. So our scouts could only identify two players in these positions? Why didn’t we sign someone? Biggest mystery of the summer.
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My guess is that OGS had indicated to the board that he wanted him gone regardless of additions. I think it was pretty clear even publicly from early on that he was persona non grata.

We finally shifted him and had a few random names to potentially bring in, but none we'd identified early or seriously pursued, so there just wasn't the time or inclination to make it happen. None were even 9's anyway.

I honestly believe it was always the intention of OGS to go into this season with our forwards being : Martial, Rashford, Greenwood.
 
Bojan11 said:
The strange thing is we sold Lukaku but wanted to move him on a swap with Dybala. That had fallen through. Then we had some talks with Eriksen. So our scouts could only identify two players in these positions? Why didn’t we sign someone? Biggest mystery of the summer.
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Maybe our scouts are shit as well.
 
Our finishing was woeful. The fact we had 22 shots to Palace's five and both teams had 3 shots on target tells the story. We even had a penalty that wasnt on target which is so bad as to be laughable. That is down to the players, im not sure how that is Ole's fault? Surely the players have to carry some of the responsibility for that game? Look at it this way, does Kane miss that penalty? Hell has he missed a penalty ever?

No I dont think Ole is a world class manager. But if our tactics are wrong, if he is getting out manoeuvred by more astute tactical managers. Then yes that is Ole's fault. For Lingard, Rashford and the team with woeful finishing, not sure how that falls on Ole? Guess you could argue player selection?
 
Think last season with Jose proved if we really start tumbling and looking totally fecked, he'll be sacked before the summer. Money talks, and the Glazers will want us to try and rescue the campaign.
 
haram said:
Maybe our scouts are shit as well.
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I think we've got a shitfest tbh (sorry for the word being used but that's the correct word to use in this occasion). So lets have a look at our structure. We've got a board of directors who take care of the football side of things (negotiating contracts, negotiating with clubs, choosing managers etc) despite having got no clue in football. We've got a manager whose so green he pisses grass, we've got scouts who are remnants of 4 managers (3 of which have failed big time)

What United need is a top to down approach. Push Woodward on the financial side, appoint a CEO who knows his stuff around football matters then start building from there. A top DOF, a top technical director, new scouts and if necessary a new manager. Id say

CEO (football side): VDS
DOF: Campos
Head of recruitment: Mitchell.
 
I don't blame Ole for the penalty misses and woeful finishers at the club.

I do blame him for harboring hard-ons for Rashford and Martial who fit the description of inconsistency perfectly. Why didn't he push for a forward?

We will come good if the forwards sort themselves out. Otherwise it's a long season ahead.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I'd love to blame the Glaziers and Ed. And I do for many things such as the overall direction of the club. However, we spent a decent amount this summer and you really don't need to spend all that much, if anything, to play cohesive structurally strong football. Sure, if you don't spend you can finish 5th. But you shouldn't use it as an excuse to playing wank as a TEAM. Even 12th place sides manage to play collectively well if they're managed well.
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I agree totally. There is no cohesiveness in our football and even the dumbest fan can tell that. It’s basically making the best of the players at his disposal. When you see the many teams in the bottom half playing football with nice one touches, lots of spaces and off-ball running, it starts to sadly reflect our lack of coaching and managerial ineptness.
 
I've refrained from coming on here since I got back from the match last night. I was fuming and anything I would have posted would be littered with expletives throughout.

I mean I sat in my seat and saw us just tap the ball around and do sweet fanny adams with it for half an hour. No movement, no guile, no pace about the passing or urgency. We missed a pen certainly but against teams like this one pen miss shouldn't be the difference between winning and losing. We should be comfortably turning teams over like Palace, especially at home. The most damning aspect of it all was the lady sat next to me was snoozing as we had the ball for the entire first thirty odd minutes till they scored but didn't really threaten or fashion any openings.

Now Ole has said in his interview there was 'no zip' about the play. Well this was something he was going to address over the summer. We are definitely a few players light but that isn't an excuse for slow pedestrian pointless passing with no cutting edge or movement. It's like we rocked up expecting Palace to roll over so we could tickle their tummy! I know it's early days but we are UTD and 5 points off the pace already! Why are we such a slow passing and no movement side? Regardless of personnel, these are pro footballers and that is something they should be able to manage as a minimum.

If Ole can't get the players playing with the zip, pace and movement our rivals do to fashion openings against defensive minded teams then I'm afraid he's going to be left vulnerable. I don't want that for Ole or any of the team. Defensive teams need to be moved around with quick passing and clever movement, not rocket science, yet we shoot ourselves in the foot once more.
 
He's got the first 10 games for me. 15 max. Harsh fact is he was brought in to improve the teams performance post Mourinho - he hasn't even steadied the ship because the points tally is actually worse.
 
There's no point sacking even the tea lady now were she our manager, I think. I don't think he's the right man but I do hope he can keep our heads above water long enough till the end of the season where we can reexamine the issue and pursue permanent candidates. We might only be 3 games into the season but taking last season into account we are actually smack dab in the middle of an under-the-radar freefall right now
 
Sack him. His signings has been good.
But he's in game management and tactics is shocking.
We won't get top 6 with this guy. Leicester is currently a better team.
 
Al Capone said:
I've refrained from coming on here since I got back from the match last night. I was fuming and anything I would have posted would be littered with expletives throughout.

I mean I sat in my seat and saw us just tap the ball around and do sweet fanny adams with it for half an hour. No movement, no guile, no pace about the passing or urgency. We missed a pen certainly but against teams like this one pen miss shouldn't be the difference between winning and losing. We should be comfortably turning teams over like Palace, especially at home. The most damning aspect of it all was the lady sat next to me was snoozing as we had the ball for the entire first thirty odd minutes till they scored but didn't really threaten or fashion any openings.

Now Ole has said in his interview there was 'no zip' about the play. Well this was something he was going to address over the summer. We are definitely a few players light but that isn't an excuse for slow pedestrian pointless passing with no cutting edge or movement. It's like we rocked up expecting Palace to roll over so we could tickle their tummy! I know it's early days but we are UTD and 5 points off the pace already! Why are we such a slow passing and no movement side? Regardless of personnel, these are pro footballers and that is something they should be able to manage as a minimum.

If Ole can't get the players playing with the zip, pace and movement our rivals do to fashion openings against defensive minded teams then I'm afraid he's going to be left vulnerable. I don't want that for Ole or any of the team. Defensive teams need to be moved around with quick passing and clever movement, not rocket science, yet we shoot ourselves in the foot once more.
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And we still should have won the game easily if VAR/referee hadn't messed it up for us. Did we play well ? No - but we missed a penalty, Cahill should have been sent off after 40 minutes. Zaha should have been sent off after 88 minutes and Milivojevic could have been sent off when we got the penalty. On top of everything we didn't get a penalty when Martial was pulled down

So - we were poor granted - but it was the ref that cost us the win….and I dont usually blame the referee for losing a game. But when VAR is available and 3 situations still gp against us incorrectly...it's fair to blame the referee!
 
hocane said:
Sack him. His signings has been good.
But he's in game management and tactics is shocking.
We won't get top 6 with this guy. Leicester is currently a better team.
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So sack him because he makes good signings ? How about letting him make some more good signings...promote youth, and if that still doesn't work - then we sack him With a lot better players ?
 
I'm still backing him. We're building the core of the team at the moment and it'll take a bit of time for us to grow a spine but I'm sure it'll come. We have a lot of technical inability in the squad and it hurts a ton. Pogba is a weird one. He can be our very best and our weakest link. His sloppiness on the ball usually ends up costly.

What worries me is his stubborn use of Lingard. I simply can't grasp what the coaching team sees in him. He's a fine squad player at the very most.
 
lysglimt said:
And we still should have won the game easily if VAR/referee hadn't messed it up for us. Did we play well ? No - but we missed a penalty, Cahill should have been sent off after 40 minutes. Zaha should have been sent off after 88 minutes and Milivojevic could have been sent off when we got the penalty. On top of everything we didn't get a penalty when Martial was pulled down

So - we were poor granted - but it was the ref that cost us the win….and I dont usually blame the referee for losing a game. But when VAR is available and 3 situations still gp against us incorrectly...it's fair to blame the referee!
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That is all fair enough and you are quite right to point that out but until we sort our play out we can't and shouldn't rely on VAR to dig us out of a hole.

With or without VAR looking forwards if we continue with this slow passing and no movement or cutting edge type of football against defensive teams then we have a big problem.
 
Sorry to say but I never understood why we appointed him. The task of making us a proper team again is way too huge for somebody like Ole. It is more a question of when and not if he gets the sack.
Mourinho was right when he said getting second with that side was one of his biggest achievments. Not saying that I liked his approach or want him back but we need an experienced manager with enough ruthlessness and a clear vision and system.

With Klopp and Guardiola out of discussion and Pochettino being highly unlikely my preference would be Tuchel. He should be given all the power and money to build a team according to his idea of playing football. Similar to what Liverpool did with Klopp.

That being said it is not all bad with Ole of course. You can see a little bit of improvement on the pitch compared to last season and his starting 11 is more encouraging than some might have thought. Also getting rid of Lukaku was a good move even if he had been our main goal scorer.
Getting only 1 point of the last 2 games has been really unlucky but like some of you said we should not need any kind of luck playing at home against Palace.
 
The more I look at him, the more I think he should have been the DoF we needed. He has a clear vision for what the squad composition should be like, we had a sensible transfer window even if we didn't plug every hole in team, and you can see the direction he wants the club to go in. That said, he's tactically so predictable that small teams will find it easy to frustrate us and the big teams could honestly run riot. City, Pool could ship 5 past what I saw last night.
 
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