Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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It's extremely early days but so far Solskjaer is looking like he has made the right calls with regards to the tactical switch and our signings. Can't argue with two games where we both played better and got a better result than the same fixtures last season.

However I do agree with the people saying his subs were poor last night. Only Mata was given any time to do anything and in 2019 does anyone even expect Mata to do anything anyway? Would rather have seen Greenwood given 15 or 20 minutes.
 
I thought De gea was good - even got his fingers to the ball on the goal, beaten by a top class finish cant complain really.
Defence - Wan Bassaka outstanding defensively, Maguire good, Lindelof - shaky, you have to hope that partnership developes. Shaw - good.
Midfield - Pogba was inconsistent to slow to move the ball, caught in possesion to many times, Mctomminay is what he is, the new darren fletcher. Linguard - not a great game by any standard, James - looked a little out of his depth at this level.
Uptop - Martial, did very little except the goal. Rashford - always working, created the goal.

2 games into a 3 year plan - not bad, better than last year and unlucky not to win it. Pogba should not be allowed to take a penalty for the forseeable future. Rashfords turn now and then Martial please.
 
As most are saying the only thing you could criticise Ole for is not making subs earlier. We definitely need midfield signings in January if we need to cement a Top 4 place or are challenging for even better. He has been left in this situation and I doubt even ever optimistic Ole thinks it is ideal. The Fred situation is almost comical and if you are not even going to bring Matic on as a sub, what is the point of him.
 
Ole is doing a great job its Woodwards fault he dosent have the depth needed to cope we're only 2 games in but soon gas will run out and we havent the players to come in only youth who mainly look fantastic but its a risk. No matter how the season goes Ole gets no blame from me its the Glazers and Woodward for not getting more players especially midfield.
 
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roonster09 said:
Not sure about that. Remember him making 2 subs very early, around 45-50th min to change the game.
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That happened once or twice, but in the main he waits till way past 70 mins and regularly makes pointless subs after 85 mins as if the player has enough time to effect the game
 
kouroux said:
hmm
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Premier league
Vs Cardiff (79, 87, 87)
Vs Huddersfield (53, 53, 81)
Vs Bournemouth (70, 76, 82)
Vs Newcastle (63, 63, 87)
Vs Spurs (73, 81, 90)
Vs Brighton (75, 83, 90)
vs Burnley (63, 67)
Vs Leicester (67, 78, 90)
Vs Fulham (70, 74, 85)
Vs Liverpool (21, 25, 43)
Vs Palace (77, 77, 90)
Vs Southampton (52, 82, 90)
Vs Arsenal (71, 80)
Vs Watford (63, 63, 77)
Vs Wolves (65, 73, 84)
Vs West Ham (55, 75, 75)
Vs Everton (46, 46, 77)
Vs City (72, 83, 83)
Vs Chelsea (65, 71, 81)
Vs Huddersfield (53, 54, 83)
Vs Cardiff (46, 74, 74)

FA Cup
Vs Reading (62, 62, 64)
Vs Arsenal (72, 72, 88)
Vs Chelsea (73, 76, 90)
Vs Wolves (71, 86, 86)

Champions league
Vs PSG (H) - (45, 46, 84)
Vs PSG (A) - (36, 80, 87)
Vs Barca (H) - (68, 74, 85)
Vs Barca (A) - 65, 73, 80)
 
The team selection was good in general, and I liked to see James introduced to finally stretch the field with two wide players, but the joke of Lingard has to end at some point.

I know Ole has his own plans and needs players to fit his tactics, I have respect for all his decisions but I struggle to understand the point of someone who plays as a number 10 without talent, dribbling or passing quality, he's not especially fast either and can't score to save his life. The stats of this guy this natural year have to be one of the worst in the whole league. Has he ever scored or assisted a single goal in 2019, friendlies aside?

I guess the problem is that we lack solid alternatives because Mata has more class but it's not much better either in general. Ole can change to a midfield 3 and allow Pogba more freedom to attack but it means playing Matic again, with Fred still being an unknown entity. But if I have to choose, give me any of these options before starting Lingard every single week.

Gomes is the most attractive option for most of us as a number 10, myself included, and I think after his pre-season deserves the chance to play or being at the bench at least. But the truth is we don't know if there's any issues behind closed doors, or if he lacks something that we can't understand from the outside, because the difference in terms of pure talent is huge.

I hope it's just a natural transition and we see the youngsters being more and more involved during the season, because it's not sustainable to keep playing every week attacking players that can't attack. I guess the kids will have proper chances in EL and the first cup games, so hopefully they start earning some credit there with good performances, so they can accelerate the process.
 
kouroux said:
hmm
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First sub per game by minute:

Wolves: 81
Chelsea: 74
Cardiff: 46 (forced)
Huddersfield: 53
Chelsea: 65
City: 72
Everton: 46
Barcelona: 65
West Ham: 55
Barcelona: 68
Wolves: 65
Watford: 63


Seems normal actually. Could be that he makes his first sub on time but maybe he left the second/third too late? Cba looking that all up again :lol:
 
If pogba scores that, nobody will be having this conversation about OGS being "weak" in leadership. If rashford stepped up and missed, everyone would be giving him stick and probably would want pogba to take the next penalty. There's no winning here with some of the fans. I don't really mind OGS having 2 designated takers. It does not say anything about his leadership in my opinion.
 
Nash27 said:
If pogba scores that, nobody will be having this conversation about OGS being "weak" in leadership. If rashford stepped up and missed, everyone would be giving him stick and probably would want pogba to take the next penalty. There's no winning here with some of the fans. I don't really mind OGS having 2 designated takers. It does not say anything about his leadership in my opinion.
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This, Pogba took the majority of penalties last season and there wasn't a problem. Pogba won the foul and stepped up, last week Rashford did the same, I'm sure if Martial won a pk he'd want to take it also. We're not the only club to rotate takers either.
 
Shark said:
I kind of agree with those saying that Ole seems to have a solid plan A, but in actual in game management isn't really up to scratch. Wolves are a decent side, but come on, we should be beating them last night with or without the penalty. We simply didn't threaten enough, especially near the end when Wolves were there for the taking.
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Too early to making sweeping criticisms. If games like last night become a norm rather than the occasional roadbump questions may be asked. For now we're 4 from 6
 
Nowadays with keepers analysing takers so much it makes sense to alternate who takes penalties.

However, I've just never been overly confident with Pogba from the spot. I never really fancied Thierry Henry from the spot but he always took them for Arsenal. However, this is not an issue, and people criticising OGS for this are not supporters in my opinion. We all know he's an inexperienced manager, with an inexperienced team, so what we need to do is get behind them and support them to give them an environment to grow in.

Luckily the fans in the ground do this, but the morons on social media and the like are an absolute cancer to our club. This is not exclusive to us, every club's fans end up looking like scum on social media. Why is this? Facelessness? The type of person who uses these platforms?

Really needs to stop, whatever it is.
 
What separates the best managers from the simply "good or average" managers is their ability to change the game either through tactical changes or through subs. Or maybe even a combination of the two. The second half performance yesterday didn't mirror the first half. We didn't really create that much in the second half and could have done with a change a lot sooner. The proof to see if Ole is learning is when we are in a similar position again in the future. If we're drawing a game with 20 minutes to go, will he stick with what he has on the field, or will he make changes.

Managers can't get it right 100% of the time, but sometimes you need to get the timing of things right. Making a change at around the 70 minute mark would have been useful, imo. But there lies the other problem...we have such an underwhelming bench, that it may not have changed the course of the game anyway. Before the game, I looked at that bench and there aren't many players who I thought could have come on to alter things.

Beforehand, a point away at Wolves would have seemed like a decent point. Many of us would have taken that, due to their great form and play last season. So, let's look at the positives, of which there definitely were some.
 
Jimmy_Bond said:
Nowadays with keepers analysing takers so much it makes sense to alternate who takes penalties.

However, I've just never been overly confident with Pogba from the spot. I never really fancied Thierry Henry from the spot but he always took them for Arsenal. However, this is not an issue, and people criticising OGS for this are not supporters in my opinion. We all know he's an inexperienced manager, with an inexperienced team, so what we need to do is get behind them and support them to give them an environment to grow in.

Luckily the fans in the ground do this, but the morons on social media and the like are an absolute cancer to our club. This is not exclusive to us, every club's fans end up looking like scum on social media. Why is this? Facelessness? The type of person who uses these platforms?

Really needs to stop, whatever it is.
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Really good point about the keepers and their analysis.

Agree re your other point. I actually feel very sorry for people who suck the joy out of everything and always look for the negative. Living your life like that must be very, very hard.

We have just played a really hard team, one we and other top 6 sides struggled against last season. We played them off the park in the first half with some wonderful stuff defensively and attacking wise we were superb breaking down the banks of defenders they got behind the ball. Second half Wolves gave it a go with Traore who seems to turn up for our games. They got a helping hand from VAR with the offside decision, Martial had an offside call wrongly made by the officials when they could have carried on play and VAR could have ruled at the conclusion of the move and Pogba had a good penalty save when the keeper looked to have moved too early (VAR missing!).

I would have taken a point before the game and whilst disappointed with the result given how we started I would take that performance any day of the week. Well done OGS and his team.
 
At the end of the game, I was seething with anger. I was jumping in frustration when Maguire gave away a cheep freekick (even if it was a dive) in a dangerous position, when Rashford was slow to perceive the corner kick variant and nobody had picked up Neves, about Pogba whose warped idea of responsibility is to take the freekick from a guy with 100% record and give it to someone with a 66% record, about Solskjær not making any subs until mins 80 and 87, that it was Mata (though he did improve our play), that Woodgate hadn’t furnished us with a goal scoring passmaster to substitute for Lingard, and that Shaw put the last big chance straight at the keeper (can he not aim!?) and all the time, of course, frustration with Jon Moss.

A few hours later, it struck me that all these things are answers to a question: Why didn’t we beat Wolves at Molineux yesterday. And that the anger was because, contrary to rational pre-match expectations, it was adamantly clear that we should have beaten Wolves at Molineux. We were the better team. It was self evident. Wolves had one period in the game were they managed to impress their game plan on the game, it was in the second half up until their goal. And even then, we looked just a pass away from deciding the game on a counter. First half they did their thing, and we could have scored three, while they had nothing. After they scored, it was all a bit more chaotic, but we had the better play and better chances, including a penalty.

So the more important question to answer, is, what made us play better than them?

How did a central midfield of McTominay, Pogba and partly Lingard, mostly control the midfield against Neves, Moutinho and Dendoncker?

What did we do, to change my outlook from ‘happy with a difficult away point’ to ‘seething with disappointment from two points lost’?
 
Garethw said:
Tonight has proven that the reason we didn’t replace Lukaku is bullshit. If you have so much faith in Greenwood why not give him 30 minutes to make a difference?
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It was nonsense and we knew that anyway - he only came out with it when it was clear Mandzukic wasn't coming, some people forget that we were in for Mandzukic until the final day of the window more or less! Convenient that, right?

Anyway, if Lukaku was here, how many minutes do you think he would've got in these first two games? I'd say 60mins, to be honest, he'd possibly have started one of the two.


Two things from last night, major gripes:

1) the penalty thing - the manager decides who's taking them, not his fecking players. Show some authority.
2) the lack of substitutes until the final 10-15mins despite players being ineffective and/or on their arses visibly.

Both with the same issue. Ole Gunnar Solksjaer doesnt strike me as a decisive manager. He seems good at basic motivation skills and setting up a team in the first instance with a decent strategy. But beyond that, he seems to lack a Plan B (or at least the players to have a Plan B). More importantly, he seems very hesitant to make firm decisions. This is supported by him allowing the players to decide who takes penalties, he clearly isn't overly comfortable making those kind of decisions himself.

Same goes for substitutes. He seems to be conflicted mentally as in "things might get worse, not better, if I make a change now". This dithering is sometimes understandable but a top-class manager needs to make these crucial decisions and take the flack if they don't come off.

This is what I've been saying all summer about Ole. When the going gets tough, when his neck is on the line and he's feeling the real heat of being Man United manager (like all those before him)………..does he have the strength of character and belief in himself and his players (especially the youngsters) to make firm, crucial decisions?

Ole has harped on about the United way, youth etc. He's lauding Greenwood as the most natural finisher at the club, yet only trusts him for 5mins a so a game at present.

How much trust will he put in someone like Mason come March time, when every point is vital and top 4 is a 50/50 dream? Will he back up his words or will he continue throwing the likes of Mata and Lingard in there instead as they are older and more experienced?

Will he take risks or stick to his comfort zone in the hope his comfort zone drags him to the finish line?

His job might depend on this type of decision.
 
You can blatantly tell who were the Ole out/Jose acolytes who thought they could come in this thread and unload their bile because of the result...

That was a fantastic performance last night. We dominated them for c.75 of the 90 minutes and the progression from where we were just four months ago when we last played them is nothing short of phenomenal.

We adjusted really well to Wolves' period of superiority, so much so that little over 10 minutes after the equaliser, there looked like only one team was going to win the game.

We also have to look at our start in the context of last season. Before the season kicked off I’d have been delighted with 4 from 6 in the first two games, and considering we have these guys next: Palace at home; Southampton away; Leicester at home; and West ham away – in those corresponding fixtures, as well as taking in to account the Wolves and Chelsea games last season, we got 6 from the 18 points available. If we win v Palace on Saturday, we’ll have already beaten last season’s tally, and if we get 3 wins and a draw from the four fixtures above, that’s a really good start to the season IMO.

Everyone knows we're nowhere near the top 2 at this moment in time, but having seen what the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal have produced thus far, I think we currently have what it takes to make a really good fist of challenging for Top 4 and EL. And what's more, and it tallies with what I thought at the end of last season: that we're likely to get better as the season progresses, as the players get more used to their movements and the likes of Greenwood, Gomes, and Chong, potentially even Garner, break through.

I just hope the board have the patience to accept a further season out of the CL if we just miss out because we can all see what Ole is working towards and the plan he's implementing which will finally see us play fast, proactive football with a focus on the academy. It'll take a couple of seasons, but honestly, it's so, so exciting.

I've not felt this optimistic about us since Woody went nuclear on deadline day in 2014, but this time it seems it's for all the right reasons.
 
rotherham_red said:
You can blatantly tell who were the Ole out/Jose acolytes who thought they could come in this thread and unload their bile because of the result...

That was a fantastic performance last night. We dominated them for c.75 of the 90 minutes and the progression from where we were just four months ago when we last played them is nothing short of phenomenal.

We adjusted really well to Wolves' period of superiority, so much so that little over 10 minutes after the equaliser, there looked like only one team was going to win the game.

We also have to look at our start in the context of last season. Before the season kicked off I’d have been delighted with 4 from 6 in the first two games, and considering we have these guys next: Palace at home; Southampton away; Leicester at home; and West ham away – in those corresponding fixtures, as well as taking in to account the Wolves and Chelsea games last season, we got 6 from the 18 points available. If we win v Palace on Saturday, we’ll have already beaten last season’s tally, and if we get 3 wins and a draw from the four fixtures above, that’s a really good start to the season IMO.

Everyone knows we're nowhere near the top 2 at this moment in time, but having seen what the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal have produced thus far, I think we currently have what it takes to make a really good fist of challenging for Top 4 and EL. And what's more, and it tallies with what I thought at the end of last season: that we're likely to get better as the season progresses, as the players get more used to their movements and the likes of Greenwood, Gomes, and Chong, potentially even Garner, break through.

I just hope the board have the patience to accept a further season out of the CL if we just miss out because we can all see what Ole is working towards and the plan he's implementing which will finally see us play fast, proactive football with a focus on the academy. It'll take a couple of seasons, but honestly, it's so, so exciting.

I've not felt this optimistic about us since Woody went nuclear on deadline day in 2014, but this time it seems it's for all the right reasons.
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Excellent post, 100 % agreed.
 
Superunknown said:
What separates the best managers from the simply "good or average" managers is their ability to change the game either through tactical changes or through subs. Or maybe even a combination of the two. The second half performance yesterday didn't mirror the first half. We didn't really create that much in the second half and could have done with a change a lot sooner. The proof to see if Ole is learning is when we are in a similar position again in the future. If we're drawing a game with 20 minutes to go, will he stick with what he has on the field, or will he make changes.

Managers can't get it right 100% of the time, but sometimes you need to get the timing of things right. Making a change at around the 70 minute mark would have been useful, imo. But there lies the other problem...we have such an underwhelming bench, that it may not have changed the course of the game anyway. Before the game, I looked at that bench and there aren't many players who I thought could have come on to alter things.

Beforehand, a point away at Wolves would have seemed like a decent point. Many of us would have taken that, due to their great form and play last season. So, let's look at the positives, of which there definitely were some.
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This is it in nutshell. The only player who needed to be replaced was Lingard, and Mata was the obvious choice, and he came on at around the right time. We were in the ascendancy by the 70th minute and a goal looked like it was coming, and indeed it would have done if the pen had been converted. Mata came on soon after that point.

There wasn't an obvious time or place for Greenwood to come on either. James and Rashford were causing their FBs problems, and Martial was occupying the CBs. They were all doing their roles well.

And then you have the people who were saying Pereira should have come on sooner... I bet you anything that if we were to go through their postings, those same people asking for Pereira to come on, would have been the same people laying in to Andreas after the Chelsea game.

That's always the issue with the people on social media and the internet: always wise after the event.
 
Last season we had 7 points from the first 7 corresponding fixtures, this season we already have 4. So if we win against Palace and then lose the next 4, we will equal the points tally from last season in same fixtures. Shows how shit we were.


------------------2018-19 2019-20
Chelsea (H)--------1-----------3
Wolves (A)---------0-----------1
Palace (H)----------1
Southampton (A)--1
Leicester (H)-------3
West Ham (A)------0
Arsenal (H)---------1
-----------------------------------------------
Total ---------------7------------- 4
 
Ole just needs to try more tweaks and I know it will pay off.

- Get the subs in early
- Try players in different positions like James on the left if nothing is happening for 70 minutes.

So far so good I say
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
It was nonsense and we knew that anyway - he only came out with it when it was clear Mandzukic wasn't coming, some people forget that we were in for Mandzukic until the final day of the window more or less! Convenient that, right?

Anyway, if Lukaku was here, how many minutes do you think he would've got in these first two games? I'd say 60mins, to be honest, he'd possibly have started one of the two.


Two things from last night, major gripes:

1) the penalty thing - the manager decides who's taking them, not his fecking players. Show some authority.
2) the lack of substitutes until the final 10-15mins despite players being ineffective and/or on their arses visibly.

Both with the same issue. Ole Gunnar Solksjaer doesnt strike me as a decisive manager. He seems good at basic motivation skills and setting up a team in the first instance with a decent strategy. But beyond that, he seems to lack a Plan B (or at least the players to have a Plan B). More importantly, he seems very hesitant to make firm decisions. This is supported by him allowing the players to decide who takes penalties, he clearly isn't overly comfortable making those kind of decisions himself.

Same goes for substitutes. He seems to be conflicted mentally as in "things might get worse, not better, if I make a change now". This dithering is sometimes understandable but a top-class manager needs to make these crucial decisions and take the flack if they don't come off.

This is what I've been saying all summer about Ole. When the going gets tough, when his neck is on the line and he's feeling the real heat of being Man United manager (like all those before him)………..does he have the strength of character and belief in himself and his players (especially the youngsters) to make firm, crucial decisions?

Ole has harped on about the United way, youth etc. He's lauding Greenwood as the most natural finisher at the club, yet only trusts him for 5mins a so a game at present.

How much trust will he put in someone like Mason come March time, when every point is vital and top 4 is a 50/50 dream? Will he back up his words or will he continue throwing the likes of Mata and Lingard in there instead as they are older and more experienced?

Will he take risks or stick to his comfort zone in the hope his comfort zone drags him to the finish line?

His job might depend on this type of decision.
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Who was on the bench that could actually come on and give us a decisive moment in the game, thus proving Solskjaer to be a decisive manager too? Pereira? Mata? The former would not have been a better choice than Lingard as they both have glaring weaknesses in their game. As for the latter, i still find it perplexing that after six years there are still people who believe that there's a top-class play-maker and a potential game-changer in Mata.

This leaves us with Greenwood. Well, he's a forward and we already had two of them on the pitch (Rashford & Martial). What we lacked was good movement between the lines and creativity in the final third (what mainly Lingard and James were supposed to provide). These two, when combined, usually create the environment for vertical runs in the box (like when Martial created the opportunity for Pogba to get in the box and win the penalty). Greenwood isn't the man for this specific task. Solskjaer could have gambled by taking off one of Rashford and Martial with the hope that the youngster would prove to be an ace up his sleeve but, then again, you can't blame any manager for sticking with his best attacking options believing that they will take their chances in the end. We've seen it with prolific goal-scorers and the persistence on them shown by their managers despite their barren spells. In our case, Martial and Rashford weren't even playing badly, to begin with. It would have made more sense to give Greenwood 15-20 minutes if our control of the game had been as absolute as it was in the first half. First, you have the opposition pinned down, then you throw the kitchen sink at them.

Solskjaer did the reasonable thing. The game was more even in the second half and he decided to trade someone who can operate as a third body in the midfield for someone more able to pick a good final pass in the last 15 minutes (10 plus stoppage time) of the game. Just because our "senior" choices don't breed much confidence, it doesn't mean that throwing youngsters in the deep end will make things any better.

In the end, yes, he chose not to gamble too much and risk losing what we had (a point at a tough ground) by altering an already attacking-minded line-up and going all-out Lampard because he understands that in order to reach the point of taking risks and making 50/50 calls that will eventually decide the outcome of our season next spring, we first have to work very hard to make sure that we'll be in that position in the first place. Another good example is Arsenal. Let Franky get the applause for his attacking-minded tactics and his risks with Mount and Abraham while the oh-so-boring Gunners are already 5 points ahead of them.

We did well yesterday, given the state of our team. We won't win the league and it will be a fight to finish in the top-four (or top-three). Outplaying one of the candidates for the "best of the rest" 7th place in the PL in their home ground was a mostly positive sign. It's not a stick to beat the manager with because it's his work that has made you angry for the two lost points when you would have easily accepted 4/6 points from the two opening games, had someone offered them before the start of the season.
 
Didnt make his changes early enough.

Not really his fault, but ita criminal not having someone sit on neves at the edge of the box. All he does it score goals from outside the box.

I said to my mate as soon as that ball was cut back and didnt see red shirt itl be a goal.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
Who was on the bench that could actually come on and give us a decisive moment in the game, thus proving Solskjaer to be a decisive manager too? Pereira? Mata? The former would not have been a better choice than Lingard as they both have glaring weaknesses in their game. As for the latter, i still find it perplexing that after six years there are still people who believe that there's a top-class play-maker and a potential game-changer in Mata.
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We are not Man City, where we can have a Mahrez sitting on the bench waiting. This only works if you win titles.
Mata is a good player to have on the bench.
Ole has already said he trusts Greenwood that is why we didnt sign another ST. Why is it that none of the fans trust a youngster? I guarantee you if Ole brought him on at 65 and scored. The perception on here would be why doesn'y he start rather than why we relying on youth.

I quite like that we have Greenwood on the bench than Sanchez.
 
roonster09 said:
How can anyone believe shots on target are the only chances created? It's not too difficult to watch the game and check the chances created.
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Off the top of my head we created two real chances. You’re the one that came in and claimed I was talking about shots on target.
 
haram said:
Off the top of my head we created two real chances. You’re the one that came in and claimed I was talking about shots on target.
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You said we created 1 chance in each half, which coincidentally has something to do with 1 shot on target in each half.

So you believe we created only 2 chances in the game?
 
roonster09 said:
You said we created 1 chance in each half, which coincidentally has something to do with 1 shot on target in each half.

So you believe we created only 2 chances in the game?
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Well off the top of my head I remember the goal and the penalty incident. I didn’t even know we only had two shots on target all game which says it all. Regardless we didn’t create enough and you’re just being pedantic.
 
haram said:
Well off the top of my head I remember the goal and the penalty incident. I didn’t even know we only had two shots on target all game which says it all. Regardless we didn’t create enough and you’re just being pedantic.
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:lol:
 
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