Word. Although some say it’s because we are United so any business we do is unwarranted...
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Longstaff apparently.
Bruno Fernandes
I mean most people aren't expecting him to do anything. Finishing fourth when Chelsea and Arsenal have far worse issues than us is not exactly high expectations.
So far we have bought a winger and a defender.
Midfield. We have lost Ander. Matic is almost done.
Pogba wants desperately to be gone.
An entire rebuild of midfield is needed.
Its pointless to talk about this player or that. We obviously do not know the details.
One thing is certain. Ole would be far from happy with where we are now.
The fact we have done so well in pre-season so far is a credit to Ole and his team and the players. True.
But we cannot go into the season with this midfield. Credit to Garner, McT, Andreas.
Complaints from the foreign players allegedly so we have to interview De Gea, Pogba, Fred, Matic, Martial, Pereira, Dalot...
100% brother.
That's not true, again, his Molde side has implemented a lot of Pep's ideas, but with SAF counter attacking mind in some situation. This is his vision of football.
You know the fans complained about exactly the same things when we were winning titles too, right? Why haven't we got rid of the deadwood, where's our war chest, all that jazz. It was never a good indicator of how successful we would be. In the summer of 06/07 people were miserable because all we did is sign one unflashy English player when clearly we needed x, y and z. We went on to play some of the best football in our history, which was totally unfathomable to the vast majority of folks on here. The only difference now is rather than just being miserable the internet fanbase is toxic.
Even if he fails - he will have left us with the following:
DDG - probably new contract
Martial - new contract
Rashford - new contract
Pogba - still appears to be with the club - and doing his best
McTominay - new contract
Dan James
Aaron Wan Bissaka
Gomes - I am convinced he will sign a new contract because Ole will play him
We probably have the youngest squad in the P.L - and the most talented even if it will take 2-3 years before the majority of these players reach their peak.
Compare that to where we were in december 2018.
I would say the guy has performed miracles even if the results arent great in 2019/2020 - regardless of who is in charge next year, the future will look much brighter.
I hope he gets time.
For once im actually looking forward to the season getting started.
For once im actually looking forward to the season getting started.
No Hazard, and banned from making signings, yea top 4 is totally nailed on for them.I would have believed some of the message you were saying but Chelsea 4th?
The 3 main players that've been mentioned all summer were Bruno, Longstaff & Savic… Atleast 1 of those 3 we've been expecting..
For this reason alone the fans must learn to be more patient. We cannot keep chopping off heads just because we didn't get 4th, which the special one dramatically failed at also. It's not an easy task.
Ole is not too proud to admit his mistakes and learn. Jose never accepted failure in himself, it was always other's faults. That's why he won't progress any further as a manager.
I have faith Ole can turn this around for us, we have good players they just need belief and a better work ethic, which he is already installing.
Being fit is huge thing in football whether people like to admit it or not. Run harder than your opponent and you'll win more often than not.
You can't be serious.
And no, not finishing in the top 4 is not acceptable. Also, absolutely nothing will change if somebody shakes thing up. Snuggling up to Ed won't work.
It seems like some people actually would be fine with Ole finishing 8th, adding one other player next year and repeat it again. At least he "isn't a twat".
Its not good enough no - but it doesn't automatically mean we should fire him. I have said before and I can say it again - we will get stronger in 1-2 Seasons. What I want to see is progress. If we pick up more points, score more goals, concede fewer goals, play better football....it is progress. If we still end up in 5th place, so be it.
Mourinho finishes 2nd with this squad, starts the next season terribly and rightly gets sacked. Ole comes in and doesn't get us top 4 but still accumulates more points than anyone bar City and Liverpool. And now fans somehow think finishing 6th would be acceptable. You have to be realistic but letting your standards fall so much is not the way to get back on top either.
We won 2 matches out of our last 12 last season. Of course the expectations won't be that high. If it was due to fitness issues, then it's a more of concern if we're planning to high press from the very start how are we going to fare come the end of the season when it matters the most. The fact the squad hasn't changed much is what makes the expectations even worse.
The standards fans set have no influence on the team whatsoever, they only influence your enjoyment of the sport. Anything beyond that is just people playing imaginary football manager with their team, thinking that if they really hold the team to account, hold those standards high, it'll force them to up their level. And then generating some false sense of pride from having such high standards, from a commercial entity they have no influence over.
When you look a post SAF period and after all that, you have top 4 as measurement of successful season, Christ, some of you aint anything better than Ed, at least in Ed and his owners case, its clear why they want top 4. Lets go full Arsenal, top 4, CL group stage, 1st round of knockout lose on agg. 10:2, shift focus back on PL to secure top 4, rinse and repeat, year in year out, they really build upon on that successful practice.
Ole already done things that i have issues with but wish him all the luck, hope he makes it as United manager.
What i personally want to see is, sense of progression, that we going somewhere, vision for our future. Maybe for the first time ever, i would demand performances over wins, we tried to ride on wins with piss poor performances and here we are. Maybe try with winning as product of our performances on the pitch, sure we can have some lucky wins not backed with our performance but anything similar to last season it will not be acceptable in my book.
My opinion about top 4 thing didnt change, in our case, means feck all if we dont change approach and build on it, check our transfer dealings with and without CL to offer, its actually comedy gold. I get why Ed and those pricks above him care so much about top 4 but i dont have any interest to watch us being Arsenal MkII.
Ole already done things that i have issues with but wish him all the luck, hope he makes it as United manager.
What i personally want to see is, sense of progression, that we going somewhere, vision for our future. Maybe for the first time ever, i would demand performances over wins, we tried to ride on wins with piss poor performances and here we are. Maybe try with winning as product of our performances on the pitch, sure we can have some lucky wins not backed with our performance but anything similar to last season it will not be acceptable in my book.
My opinion about top 4 thing didnt change, in our case, means feck all if we dont change approach and build on it, check our transfer dealings with and without CL to offer, its actually comedy gold. I get why Ed and those pricks above him care so much about top 4 but i dont have any interest to watch us being Arsenal MkII.
My issue with Ole', is that it seems that he isn't quite clear about what he really plans to do. Does he really want to change the squad? It doesn't seem so to me... just working with players, saying they need to be fitter etc isn't really setting any plans out at all. It's ambiguous, without direction and this encourages a sense of enquiry... '.what is he doing, what is his vision.. is he happy with what he has at his disposal.. is he going to change it.. what is satisfactory to him...'
I haven't a clue what Ole really thinks about any of those questions.
I knew under SAF (and I am old enough to recall his early days at the club. SAF was clear he had to change a club culture, and bring through youth..) I also knew what LVG wanted to do. I knew what Jose wanted to do. Both of their respective plans and approaches were inappropriate in the end, but you could not argue whether you knew where these guys were coming from.
Now look at Ole? What is he doing? Is he confident? And if he isn't showing this, with absolute authority and clarity (compare to Klopp, Pep, Pochetino, Benitez, Dyche, Nuno Santo etc etc..) , then do you doubt whether the players also recognise this?
The only manager I can compare this appointment to in many ways, is David Moyes. Nuff said really.
(and as I have stated, on many occasions..I absolutely love Ole.. love the guy.. but it's not about that. This is about managing arguably the biggest club in the world..)
I haven't a clue what Ole really thinks about any of those questions.
I knew under SAF (and I am old enough to recall his early days at the club. SAF was clear he had to change a club culture, and bring through youth..) I also knew what LVG wanted to do. I knew what Jose wanted to do. Both of their respective plans and approaches were inappropriate in the end, but you could not argue whether you knew where these guys were coming from.
Now look at Ole? What is he doing? Is he confident? And if he isn't showing this, with absolute authority and clarity (compare to Klopp, Pep, Pochetino, Benitez, Dyche, Nuno Santo etc etc..) , then do you doubt whether the players also recognise this?
The only manager I can compare this appointment to in many ways, is David Moyes. Nuff said really.
(and as I have stated, on many occasions..I absolutely love Ole.. love the guy.. but it's not about that. This is about managing arguably the biggest club in the world..)
He's been shafted.
Knowing what managers think is overrated. The performances and results will tell us everything we need to know. Pre-season can be and usually is misleading, but I'd have rather have 4 wins than the opposite. The plan is clearly to press a lot more and a lot higher up the field than we have previously. That will take time to implement.
He's getting sold down the river, as a lot of us predicted.
I'd rather believe that, than the only other option - he's a Yes Man.
It's one or the other. I'm hoping it's the former, but to be honest, there's a strong chance it's the latter - bloke has managed Cardiff and Molde and this pinnacle will never, ever repeat itself for him. For him to ever beat managing his dream club, is unimaginable. All downhill from here. When people are in such a position, they will often say and do things they wouldn't normally do to ensure they ride the crest of the wave for as long as possible....
I'd rather believe that, than the only other option - he's a Yes Man.
It's one or the other. I'm hoping it's the former, but to be honest, there's a strong chance it's the latter - bloke has managed Cardiff and Molde and this pinnacle will never, ever repeat itself for him. For him to ever beat managing his dream club, is unimaginable. All downhill from here. When people are in such a position, they will often say and do things they wouldn't normally do to ensure they ride the crest of the wave for as long as possible....
Are people basing this purely on transfer activity or have I missed something significant? The mood in the camp seems pretty good, based on the best indicator we have - recent performances. Why is there a sudden increase in the hysteria?
”All down hill from here” aren't you a happy bloke. Ole has played for United, under Ferguson. I am pretty sure he knows what United need to be at for level. Now I’m not happy with the window so far but quit ripping into Ole like he is to blame. What do you want him to say to fans, to media?
I agree that there's not much there yet to conclude that he is a Yes man. Not yet. But the mood in the camp really has nothing to do with that at all has it?
Because this squad as it stands isn't good enough to compete in the PL. The young players are looking really good for sure, but we are really short in midfield and our defence will continue to kill any progress we make unless we sign Maguire.
Nothing sudden about it, a ton of people have been chiming in about Ole being out of his depth, even when we were looking golden during his first two months.
the "yes man" argument is ridiculous. Mourinho got crucified for being super-negative all the time and rightfully so. Ole is obviously a completely different character and much more positive, isn't that a good thing? Calling him a "yes man" seems a bit unfair.
It hasn't been the window we had hoped for and I'm sure he feels the same way. But heck, it's been a really good tour nevertheless and several young players have shown a lot of promise. I don't understand why people are ready to throw him under the bus because of that.
It hasn't been the window we had hoped for and I'm sure he feels the same way. But heck, it's been a really good tour nevertheless and several young players have shown a lot of promise. I don't understand why people are ready to throw him under the bus because of that.
He is no1 favourite for sack next season. Why? What bookies know and we don't?
I mean, despite what we fans think about him, board just hired him and we are not a club who sack managers early. We always wait long enough.
Really strange that he is 6/1
I mean, despite what we fans think about him, board just hired him and we are not a club who sack managers early. We always wait long enough.
Really strange that he is 6/1
He isn't a yes man, people just think that because he's smiling and trying to be positive in interviews.
I think it helps the morale of the squad, and if Ed doesn't help him by getting more players in, he needs the ones he's got to be happy and positive.
I have seen interview with former Molde players saying Ole used the hairdryer treatment on them when it was needed. People on here won't believe that because he is smiling in interviews and is generally a positive person.
He's no doubt unhappy/disappointed by the lack of signings, and i'm sure he's told them, but it's his first pre-season, what should he do? Throw a hissy fit in pressers?
Nope, none at all. I hadn't meant for them to be read as part of a joined-up point. The mood in the camp comment was more in response to him being sold down the river or a yes man. Those aren't particularly measured views so I was wondering had there been some kind of breakdown to trigger it.
People complain about transfer activity literally every year, and we've had many disappointing ones. The tone in his post, which to me is in keeping with the tone of most of the comments about Ole at the moment, surely has to be driven by something more than that.
Yes we have deficiencies we haven't yet plugged, which will likely - but not certainly, unless you've only just started watching footy - hinder our results next season. I get why that's a cause for concern. I don't think it's a particularly good explanation for hysteria.
I'm personally not convinced he isn't out of his depth, and don't attribute him much credit for the upturn in form or much blame for the collapse afterwards. Managers can be influential but we've got plenty of examples of managers who were out of their depth achieving great feats. We were one slip away from being on the wrong of one of those just a decade ago. So I don't think it's unreasonable to be sceptical still, and not that surprising that people are negative - the caf has always been so, presumably because an internet forum appeals to people with that disposition more than others. It's not like we've lacked the material for unbridled happiness over the course of this forum's history, but the discussion has always been dominated by complaints.
It's a huge fecking leap to go from doubting his ability to manage an incredibly difficult situation, one which managers with proven pedigree have struggled tremendously in, to thinking he's a yes man though. I can't figure what would lead someone to say something about a United legend, but assumed there must be some kind of substance to it. I just opt out of the footy news cycle in the summer so wondered if it was just me missing something. Is it really just because of transfers?
I don't understand what you mean by these questions. Is he confident? does he have clarity? No manager has the need or requirement to come out and explain his tactics in detail to everyone and I don't think I've seen other managers come out and do it for no reason. What they have to do is show it on the pitch. And you know what, he has done it on the pitch quite cleary during this preseason and when he first came in before the whole midfield and attack got injured as they couldn't handle what Ole wanted to do due to their fitness level. It's quite clear he wants to play a much more proactive game with high pressing from the front and a fluid 4-2-3-1/4-2-1-3. For this, obviously, you will struggle without an exceptional level of fitness as we saw with Klopp's first couple of season and with ourselves during the end of last season. Thus, Ole saying his first priority is to get the team fit is actually quite a clear indication of his gameplan and clarity of his idea. Actually its much more clear than Jose, LVG, Moyes, and dare I say SAF in his final 2-3 seasons.
"is he happy with what he has at his disposal.. is he going to change it.. what is satisfactory to him..." regarding these questions, obviously Ole won't come out and say that the players that he has are not good enough even if it might be the case. Normally you would never see that from a manager who wants to keep the team happy and morale high. We saw what happened when Jose did that during last season and also during his second stint at Chelsea.
Obviously, it's on the players as well to carry on his plan consistently. But from my pov, I'm quietly optimistic about the coming season from what I've seen from Ole both in terms of his playing style and also seeing his attempt to integrate more academy players in the first team.
He is no1 favourite for sack next season. Why? What bookies know and we don't?
I mean, despite what we fans think about him, board just hired him and we are not a club who sack managers early. We always wait long enough.
Really strange that he is 6/1
Really? Moyes was gone in 8 months.
Van Gaal won the FA Cup.
I absolutely agree that there’s reason to be skeptical. My dismissive tone is mainly reserved for those who feel comfortable insisting he’s a yes man, or out of his depth. People insisting he’ll be a success are rare, so not really getting worked up about that.
I don’t know about you, but to me this forum has been this way for a while now. Some portion of posters fill in blanks with negativity, and in the summer there’s a lot more variables up in the air, so people can run with it wherever they like. Surprise, surprise, a big portion of our fanbase are spoiled and are big on doom and gloom.
For anybody slow on the uptake; I’m not equating skepticism with being spoiled. I’m hopeful but not convinced about Ole lasting at the club as a manager.
Why are people so negative? I see a United team atm who plays much more attractive football. If we get Maguire in, and a midfielder, I think we will do greater than last season, at least we will get the 4th place this season I believe.
I think so too but when the transfer window is closed he’s on his own. That’s what most of us is worried about.
A top-four finish should not be the only measure of success or perhaps it should not top the criteria (we can agree on that) but not getting it can certainly be a measure of failure. Especially when we have one of the highest wage budgets in the world. In any profession and for all employees, there's always a point where the line is drawn.
Context, of course, is always important. If we show improvement on the pitch and we manage to win around 75 points and we narrowly miss out on top-four, surely the manager will deserve another season. But that's just being unlucky. People like to point to how Klopp gradually and methodically transformed Liverpool into top contenders. But Klopp, in the three years he was afforded a preseason and a summer transfer window to work with, never failed to achieve a top-four finish. Being pleasing to the eye alone is a good place to start but unfortunately doesn't cut it longterm. Not at United. Fortunately, Ole admitted that he has short-term goals to meet alongside the long-term ones.
One more thing is that some people want to have their cake and eat it too. I haven't looked in my crystal ball so i don't know how the season will eventually pan out but i'm going with what seems to be the general consensus on here. From what i get, Arsenal are still a shambles and Chelsea have a transfer ban, they lost Hazard and they are going into next season with a rookie manager who has never managed a PL game before. My question is how on earth will it be OK to finish 5th/6th with slightly more attractive football under these circumstances? If clear progression is the key factor, i can't see how we'll finish in the same position as last year while having improved. Somehow it doesn't all add up.
Basically people are losing the plot because the massive turnover in players that they had for some reason convinced themselves was going to happen, hasn't.
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