Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Enigma_87]

Sacking Ole right now in May and getting in a replacement could also cause a lot of delays.

On the contrary. You will have players one year older and new players that suit Ole's style. Next manager might not have the same style(we have no DoF in place) making those new players and investment in them futile.

The new manager will want to give them another chance and asses the players again during the season.

He would have 2 months in the Summer to do so and a proper transfer window. Experienced managers need less time to asses the situations compared to someone like Ole who will change formations and tactics until one sticks (sound familiar?).

At least Ole right now has his mind made up about who's going or staying. It's just going to cause more and more instability, I'd like to give him a fair crack at it.

That counts for nothing when he gets sacked before Christmas. It's rather detrimental to our next season and next manager who will take over. As I've said multiple times in the long run you create bigger issues when you appoint someone who is not fit for the job.

No new manager comes in and does great immediately you can look around at any manager if you need examples. Ole won his first 10+ games which is unprecedented. The team were incapable of keeping up the intensity and are just mentally fragile little guppies.

Ole also managed the worst run of results since more than 30 years which is unprecedented. Players that gave him the job keep getting lambasted which forms the double standard. People keep backing up Ole who keeps fielding Young.

There's big discrepancy of what people expect of him and what in reality will happen, IMO.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I agree, sometimes you need to take your chances. We have tried the blockbuster CV route twice already without success. Why not try something else now? Who says Ole and United aren't made for each other? We would never know unless we try! He was given the job as caretaker initially and after passing the audition with flying colours, was granted the job full-time, deservedly at the time. I don't agree that we should sack him now without giving him a fair shot.

Nobody seems to give a damn, they want to keep trying the Galactico manager approach. If Ole is shite after being given a fair chance then fine SACK AWAY. At-least if he fails no ex-player will get the job ever again; im sure the Café will be ecstatic about that!

Have we appointed a manager either in his peak or without the risk of imploding?

van Gaals trophy count between 90-00: 15
van Gaals trophy count between 00-16: 5

And, as for Mourinho, well we took a pretty big risk going for a manager who we should have appointed 3 years prior anyway but on the back off a terrible final half a season at Chelsea.

I don't think there's been one managerial appointment that felt right at the time. There was always far too much of a risk associated with every appointment following SAFs retirement.

 

[MoskvaRed]

I don’t understand the logic that, because LVG and Mourinho did not live up to expectations, it’s perfectly reasonable that we forget about CVs and start taking wild gambles instead. Obviously there are no guarantees, and the fact two highly regarded managers fell short strongly suggests there are deeper problems at United, but the more logical response would be to try again with another, younger manager with a track record of success. After Sexton and Atkinson failed to bring back the glory days, United didn’t think “sod it, let’s try an ex-player with no real achievements in management”. They tried again by hiring one of the best up and coming managers around and finally they got lucky.

History won’t repeat itself exactly (and we should be moving away from the old style British manager model) but a good manager would at least help mitigate the basic dysfunctional nature of Woodward’s United. With the useless CEO/no DoF/hapless manager model, we could be turning the big 6 into the big 5 next season.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Our fans should want us to be successful. Fair chance means 1-2 years(even more) down the drain. Most fail to grasp that.

At this rate we risk becoming Liverpool of yesterday with Hodgson, Evans and Dalglish.

Imagine you own your own company would you prefer to hire the most qualified person you could get for the job, instead of your nephew?

It's not instant success either, it has been 6 years and nothing changed.

We mock Liverpool and their 30 years hunt for the title, but with this approach we'll be on that path before we know it.

This

 

[cr4cki3]

back him !

we will see a different system next season and with different personal who knows what the team we will be like but Ole knows what the job is and what is needed so I trust we give him time and then judge further down the line.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I don’t understand the logic that, because LVG and Mourinho did not live up to expectations, it’s perfectly reasonable that we forget about CVs and start taking wild gambles instead. Obviously there are no guarantees, and the fact two highly regarded managers fell short strongly suggests there are deeper problems at United, but the more logical response would be to try again with another, younger manager with a track record of success. After Sexton and Atkinson failed to bring back the glory days, United didn’t think “sod it, let’s try an ex-player with no real achievements in management”. They tried again by hiring one of the best up and coming managers around and finally they got lucky.

History won’t repeat itself exactly (and we should be moving away from the old style British manager model) but a good manager would at least help mitigate the basic dysfunctional nature of Woodward’s United. With the useless CEO/no DoF/hapless manager model, we could be turning the big 6 into the big 5 next season.

That's half my point, though. Clearly we didn't look at the CVs of either Moyes or van Gaal - one hadn't won anything in his managerial career and the other achieved a large proportion of his success in 90s.

Mourinho, too, was a huge gamble given what happened in the latter part of 2015. Albeit, I still view him as the most successful of the lot, he failed to achieve the target we probably set.

 

[Leftback99]

Zidane got the job on the 4th Jan 2016; his record till June 2016 was: 20 wins; 2 draws and 2 losses. They scored 72 goals in 24 games. He also won the Champions league. No bullshit transfers were needed, no pre season. He took the job from Benitez and lost the league by one point.

Pep got the job in July 2008 and his record after 29 games was: 24 wins; 2 draws and 2 losses.

Ole's record is: 16 wins; 4 draws and 9 losses whilst also recording United's worst run of form for over 50 years.

Zidane got the job in very similar circumstances to Ole but the difference was he improved a lacklustre Real Madrid side.

How's Zidane doing now with an older, Ronaldo less squad? With the added benefit of managing them previously.

 

[Moriarty]

So basically we feel the exact same way except I disagree with the real comparison.

What do I say now?

Dunno. It's your move...

 

[JustAGuest]

No, its full of managers that have more experience then Ole. Not managers people genuinely want. Some people might want Howe, where as other will say Bournemouth is his level...
Where other are saying Benitez, realistically he's never going to be United manager & many fans wont even back him (See Chelsea reaction)
After all these replies you simply can't put forward a realistic alternative (not Poch)..that wont divide as many people as Ole does

I think the answer is that this ideal appointment is not available right now. Nuno for example was sacked by Porto, and resigned from Valencia following poor results. He would by no means be a sure success, even though he has done well with Wolves.

Some want Ole out at whatever cost, which is fine, but I can understand the club not making a move when there is no clear replacement available. If your standpoint is that he is 100% not up for the job, then it will seem unbelievable that he's not being replaced. I don't think football is that simple (if it is, why not get rich in the process and back whatever you so strongly believe will happen? ).

 

[MoskvaRed]

That's half my point, though. Clearly we didn't look at the CVs of either Moyes or van Gaal - one hadn't won anything in his managerial career and the other achieved a large proportion of his success in 90s.

Mourinho, too, was a huge gamble given what happened in the latter part of 2015. Albeit, I still view him as the most successful of the lot, he failed to achieve the target we probably set.

I agree - there were red flags with both (I won’t discuss Moyes - that was simply mental) but that doesn’t mean after two failures you discount track records altogether and give it to the manager of Molde just because he used to play for you. We should be targeting managers with solid achievements who are still on the up in their career.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I agree - there were red flags with both (I won’t discuss Moyes - that was simply mental) but that doesn’t mean after two failures you discount track records altogether and give it to the manager of Molde just because he used to play for you. We should be targeting managers with solid achievements who are still on the up in their career.

Wait. I think we're making the same argument. I'm on the side that feels Ole should never have been appointed.

 

[Sandikan]

How many managers did Madrid have this season? We have to be ruthless with both players and managers to succeed. As soon it is evident a player can't cut it they should be sold. Managers should be sacked for the kind of form we showed the past few weeks.

It's still Jose's team though. And although he was sacked, how can you then sack a guy who hasn't had the chance to change the roll call?

 

[Mal donaghy]

Back him or sack him??? Orr,,,,,, back,sack, and crack him!

 

[flappyjay]

It's still Jose's team though. And although he was sacked, how can you then sack a guy who hasn't had the chance to change the roll call?

His players or not the teams form falling to relegation levels and him not being able to pull them out of that pit concerns me. Also he was hired off of having a string of wins with the same players let's not forget that

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Leave the man alone, he ain’t going anywhere, let him get a few players in, we need some much needed refreshing and he seems to be up for it.

Our rumored targets are all pointing to quite a good direction, pretty exciting players, so let him get a couple in, more than a few out, work with them over the summer and see where we’re at in October.

He deserves at least that, just a real chance.
The team was obviously emotionally drained post-Jose, let him have the summer.

 

[Lee565]

If the arguments against sacking Solskjear is that the players are at fault for whatever reason or that he should be allowed to bring his own players in no matter how poor he has been then the logic to those arguments is that you are saying that you would have given the full time role straight away because those 2 arguments suggested means Solskjear would be blameless for whatever form we have had when he took over.

The other being Sacking him now is crazy to change managers so quickly but he was suppose to be a caretaker manager so again the suggestion being made is that Solskjear should have been given the full time role straight away as the other option was we were going to have to change managers at the end of the season anyway.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

If the arguments against sacking Solskjear is that the players are at fault for whatever reason or that he should be allowed to bring his own players in no matter how poor he has been then the logic to those arguments is that you are saying that you would have given the full time role straight away because those 2 arguments suggested means Solskjear would be blameless for whatever form we have had when he took over.

The other being Sacking him now is crazy to change managers so quickly but he was suppose to be a caretaker manager so again the suggestion being made is that Solskjear should have been given the full time role straight away as the other option was we were going to have to change managers at the end of the season anyway.

Not necessarily, during his time here as a caretaker manager, people around the club, probably SAF too, identified that OGS is ready and has enough knowledge in football to take on such a job.
It ain’t all about results, it couldn’t be, the situation was way too complicated to judge him solely on results.

I suppose he was identified as the man with the closest vision to what the people who are in charge share towards the future of the club.

 

[USREDEVIL]

We have to back him. The reality is that he just signed a deal and United aren't likely to dump him. I'm hoping all of the "good rumors" are true. He will get rid of most of the deadwood, he'll sign young and talented players like Sancho, and that we will play a fast attacking and pressing game that I think we saw in his first few games. If all of this is true I have no problem even if we only get to fourth place next season. I'm hoping we have hit rock bottom.

 

[soaphroniscuss]

Its amazing how many hysterical, reactionary wussies we have as fans. This thread is even more reactionary than a matchday thread but a far less entertaining.

These are our realities:

1) Ole has barely had the time or never mind had ANY resources to affect the team.

2) The structure of the club is rotten and any manager going forward will be another convenient scapegoat. I rather trust a United person to fix it rather than some mercenary manager.

3) Who would take this poison chalice if we sack one of our own only after six months, with no pre-season and not even two transfer windows, never mind the proverbial three window expectation? No manager worth his weight would ever take it then except for the mercenary ones.

So stop being whiney old biddies, calling for his sacking.

It will not have entered Woodward's thinking -- he will be fecked if he sacks another as its just further proof of his football business ineptitude. He cant afford to let Ole fail now for his own professional reasons.

All it does is provide more ideas and fodder for the press to show how fecked we are. This will affect our potential transfer targets as a result.

1. You don't need resources to affect the team.

 

[soaphroniscuss]

I suspect the majority of redcafe members already calling for Ole's head had a different opinion after his first 14 games. I actually admit I thought the same, and that he deserved the job.

The same as the amount of people who were happy when Sanchez was signed, and when Mourinho became the manager.

The majority, not all, and who are now (and did) change/d their decisions quickly.

Human nature, but you have to be careful what you wish for.

I still think we should see what happens next season, but OGS needs the FULL backing of the club or there is literally no point; albeit I am not confident for next season, but would we be confident anyway? There will be no mass culling of players unfortunately, not when you see the dross that have already had their contracts extended. I mean, Mr Phillip Jones would not get anywhere near another top club's first team, and yet we have given him a pension plan for the next 5 generations of his family tree via a ludicrous contract extension.

You couldn't make it up, but that is where we are at now as a club, taking the easy option every single time.

The rest are not human ?

 

[Lexxxzi]

If the arguments against sacking Solskjear is that the players are at fault for whatever reason or that he should be allowed to bring his own players in no matter how poor he has been then the logic to those arguments is that you are saying that you would have given the full time role straight away because those 2 arguments suggested means Solskjear would be blameless for whatever form we have had when he took over.

First of all, this must be the least well-put sentence I have read in years... Secondly, you just show that you do not understand the arguments put forward here. Solskjaer isn't blameless. However, it is clear as day that Solskjaer is not the main problem here. The obvious (!) problems have been explained numerous times now, by numerous people, I might as well just summarize them:

1. The players were not, and I repeat, not physically prepared for Solskjaer type of football (because they had a differently focused pre-season under Jose), so the '4-3-3-high pressure-run as much as you can' approach had to be abandoned. The style caused several injuries, and the players just weren't capable of doing it.

2. The players themselves just aren't good enough. This one is painfully obvious to anyone with a minor understanding of the game.

3. The leaders of the football club have acted, and still acts, incompently in various ways. This is not just a matter of recent times, but has been a pattern for several years now.

 

[OoopsMisclick]

sack ole, get someone with a philosphy we can get behind.
Tuchel might face the sack, i rather have him

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

sack ole, get someone with a philosphy we can get behind.
Tuchel might face the sack, i rather have him

Tuchel couldn’t even win a double in a farmers league, with the best front three in Europe.
His teams play nice football but that’s not enough to be the manager of Man United at this point.

 

[Enigma_87]

Tuchel couldn’t even win a double in a farmers league, with the best front three in Europe.
His teams play nice football but that’s not enough to be the manager of Man United at this point.

Love that.

What's enough to be United manager at this point?

A guy who relegated Cardiff, couldn't even win the title the last 4-5 years in a league much worse than that farmers league and just got in the worst streak since before Fergie?

Why should we give Ole a chance, based on 14 games? Talk about knee jerk..

 

[Steerpike]

I'm a freelancer so doesn't apply to me. Have no idea whether any manager has done it in my previous jobs. But to be fair I was appointed to each role with a previous track record and I wasn't managing Manchester United.

When Ron Atkinson was sacked in 1986, Fergie was appointed a day later. Do you think we hadn't sounded him out beforehand? I don't.

If we're not talking to alternative candidates, and preparing ourselves for the possibility that our recent form under OGS continues, it would be a dereliction of duty.

Big Ron was already on borrowed time after the previous season (famously finishing fourth in a one horse race), and a poor start to the 1986-7 season sealed his fate. The decision to sack him had presumably been made quite some time before the actual event, and it would have been that period between the decision and the event that the club had a dialogue with Fergie, almost certainly with the consent of Aberdeen. What your suggesting regarding Ole is very different - he is presumably still trusted with the job and not on borrowed time. Talking to other potential managers at this point would be very disrespectful and would undermine his authority. Do you think Liverpool are talking to potential successors to Klopp, or Spurs doing the same regarding Pocchetino?

There are also rules prohibiting tapping up other clubs' managers (remember Watford's complaints over Everton's approaches to Marco Silva). So, unless the potential Ole replacements are currently out of work, we'd be slaughtered for approaching them anyway.

 

[Cardozo]

Players need sacked not Ole.

Even if you really blame Ole, you need to sack every member of the coaching team with him because they’re all responsible for the tactics / training.

I don’t think they’ve had a chance yet. Either through silly individual mistakes that led to goals against us (numerous), injuries to key players (eg. martial), poor player form, player ability in certain areas.

Our right back options are limited, our centre back options aren’t working. Our midfield is unbalanced without Matic and we have no width in the team other than playing Lukaku and Rashford our there.

Add to it the clear boardroom problems with contracts expiring and inflated salary of Sanchez (who has been fecking useless) ruining the ‘team’ mentality and moral.

It was a poison chalice to take it and I’d rather have Ole run the team than another journeyman. We’ve tried sourcing some of the best managers on the market. If it’s still shit come October then I’ll change my mind.

At the moment, it’s firmly on the players.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Big Ron was already on borrowed time after the previous season (famously finishing fourth in a one horse race), and a poor start to the 1986-7 season sealed his fate. The decision to sack him had presumably been made quite some time before the actual event, and it would have been that period between the decision and the event that the club had a dialogue with Fergie, almost certainly with the consent of Aberdeen. What your suggesting regarding Ole is very different - he is presumably still trusted with the job and not on borrowed time. Talking to other potential managers at this point would be very disrespectful and would undermine his authority. Do you think Liverpool are talking to potential successors to Klopp, or Spurs doing the same regarding Pocchetino?

There are also rules prohibiting tapping up other clubs' managers (remember Watford's complaints over Everton's approaches to Marco Silva). So, unless the potential Ole replacements are currently out of work, we'd be slaughtered for approaching them anyway.

Come on mate, you're not seriously comparing OGS with Klopp or Pochettino are you? They're about to contest the CL final!

OGS must be on borrowed time after the run we've been on. We've been in relegation form for the past two months. He'll get the first half of next season to turn things around but the board must have doubts now.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Love that.

What's enough to be United manager at this point?

A guy who relegated Cardiff, couldn't even win the title the last 4-5 years in a league much worse than that farmers league and just got in the worst streak since before Fergie?

Why should we give Ole a chance, based on 14 games? Talk about knee jerk..

At this point I’d trust Ole more than the guy won the league in France with PSG.
Ole coached here, knows the club as good as you possibly can, proven to the people above him that his knowledge of the game is high enough for that level, O haven’t seen him do massive mistakes tactically, seen him do good things tactically, we were set up well enough in most cases.

Not saying he’s the most fitting man for the job or anything like that, but he hasn’t been given a real chance yet.
Out situation has proven to be to complicated even for Jose and LvG.

Give him time, relax and let’s see where we at in October.

 

[tjb]

Blaming Ole is crazy at this point since most of us already knew what the issues were to begin with. Ole came in, masked some of these issues and injuries forced him into a situation mourinho has found himself in often. There are several issues in the squad.

1. Lack of quality- this is the obvious issue. When you watch the former united teams, the first thing you notice is the fluidity and lack of hesitation in the play. This hesitation has been a feature of our play since the latter end of Fergies tenure, and its no coincidence that it came with the signings of Jones, Smalling, Young and Valencia. Its a lack of ability to make quick decisions, and has hurt us both defensively and in attack, as we are always forced to attack against set defences. We need to replace these areas in our first xi- right back, right wing, centre midfield and we need a centre back. The next two to three windows will need us to replace players in these positions, and sell players that lack ability on the ball. Players like Vidic and Neville were actually good on the ball, moreso than people remember.

2. Fitness- We have massive issues with fitness in the squad. We suffered with fitness issues in Mourinho seasons, and this season was no different. There is clearly something wrong in the fitness levels of the players, and this has to be addressed in preseason, considering how long our seasons are.

3. Depth- One of the most frightening things that occured this season was how poor we looked with Ole after the international break where some of the inital first team players got injured. Smalling coming back into the first 11 brought a halt to how quickly the ball moved into the attacking areas, Lukaku returning led to an end in our pressing game. Herrera and Matic getting injured brought an end to the intensity in midfield. It is not a coincidence that this occured, and is an area where we need to focus on in the next few windows after this initial one.

Ole has a big job to do, but I think he is more willing to do it than any other manager we have had since Sir Alex. Both Mourinho and Van Gaal were looking to enhance their legacies, and would force through short term fixes or consistently failing philosophies to enhance their star, but Ole is the only one of these managers that I truly feel cares about the club and its well being, and would be willing to do what it takes to get us back to where we need to be. We have the money, we have the infrastructure, we have some talent, and we have some youthful players coming through, so there are pieces to work with. He just needs patience from the fans and support from the boardroom.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Love that.

What's enough to be United manager at this point?

A guy who relegated Cardiff, couldn't even win the title the last 4-5 years in a league much worse than that farmers league and just got in the worst streak since before Fergie?

Why should we give Ole a chance, based on 14 games? Talk about knee jerk..

true though..

He isnt even Everton level material. And I mean that. There is no way Everton would even think of giving him the job.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

 

[Steerpike]

Come on mate, you're not seriously comparing OGS with Klopp or Pochettino are you? They're about to contest the CL final!

OGS must be on borrowed time after the run we've been on. We've been in relegation form for the past two months. He'll get the first half of next season to turn things around but the board must have doubts now.

No, I'm not suggesting in any way that his achievements match those of Klopp and Pochettino, just that he has exactly the same status with his employer as they do with theirs (i.e. in post, no current intention to make a change). It would therefore be no more appropriate for the United board to be making approaches to other potential managers than it would be for the boards at Liverpool or Spurs (or any other club that hasn't already decided to part company with its manager).

You can't pretend to back the manager while privately conniving at getting a replacement on board. They are either backing him, in which case covert converstions with other candidates are both pointless and against FA/UEFA rules (assuming candidates are currently working at other clubs), or they are not backing him, in which case they may as well front up now to avoid wasting what looks like being a busy transfer window.

Regarding OGS being on borrowed time, the fact remains that he has not yet had the opportunity to affect the team in terms of squad composition, and he has not had a pre-season with the squad to work on fitness levels and tactics. All we can say for sure is that he achieved a short term improvement with a squad which was not fit for purpose, and had already brought about the demise of the previous manager, but was not able to sustain it, perhaps because the players were not as fit as they should have been. The board clearly decided they'd seen enough positives to entrust him with the job, and in fact he has probably delivered more than was expected of him. The tailing off in performances at the end of the season is more indicative of the amount of work there is to do prior to next season than it is of Ole's credentials as a manager.

 

[Treble99-United]

Players need sacked not Ole.

Even if you really blame Ole, you need to sack every member of the coaching team with him because they’re all responsible for the tactics / training.

I don’t think they’ve had a chance yet. Either through silly individual mistakes that led to goals against us (numerous), injuries to key players (eg. martial), poor player form, player ability in certain areas.

Our right back options are limited, our centre back options aren’t working. Our midfield is unbalanced without Matic and we have no width in the team other than playing Lukaku and Rashford our there.

Add to it the clear boardroom problems with contracts expiring and inflated salary of Sanchez (who has been fecking useless) ruining the ‘team’ mentality and moral.

It was a poison chalice to take it and I’d rather have Ole run the team than another journeyman. We’ve tried sourcing some of the best managers on the market. If it’s still shit come October then I’ll change my mind.

At the moment, it’s firmly on the players.

I agree it's those heartless mercenary players we have are at fault. Especially the deadwood players who were signed by Fergie.

I bet you any money, there will be no major changes to the squad and the opening match for next season, those muppets Jones and Smalling will be playing.

It's time to protest like the Arsenal fans did but with more class and stick together.

Or expect city and Looserpools to be untouchables for the next decade or so.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Just a thought, if other manager was in Ole position without any ties to the club and with the run of worst results in the history of man utd, will he still get the backing like Ole? And if yes, based on what exactly to back him when he has no track records and the on field performance is one of the worst ever seen in the club history.

 

[purgethefallen]

Phil Jones got a new contract while he was in charge. That tells you all you need to know.

Before he was made permanent, contract talks would have started way before Ole was even appointed caretaker, but whatever suits your (and others) agenda.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Before he was made permanent, contract talks would have started way before Ole was even appointed caretaker, but whatever suits your (and others) agenda.

He signed the contract while Ole was manager. If Ole didnt want him he could have blocked the procedure at any point. Unless ofcourse he is just a yes man.

 

[Greck]

That guy made some good points and some OTT points but one thing he was spot on was about the part "mourinho cult". Not saying everyone but there are many who were loudest in defending Jose are the loudest in criticizing Ole. All the players were crap before and how Jose should have been backed to improve the team, but same excuse and benefit of doubt is not given to the manager who didn't even sign a single player or preseason to work on anything. Again not everyone but there are few obvious ones.

Tbf I also find it odd how many former Jose supporters who told us to back the manager no matter what have no problem doubting Ole. Was their loyalty just a Jose thing?

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Tbf I also find it odd how many former Jose supporters who told us to back the manager no matter what have no problem doubting Ole. Was their loyalty just a Jose thing?

A no sense post. Totally incomparable situation.

 

[haram]

Tbf I also find it odd how many former Jose supporters who told us to back the manager no matter what have no problem doubting Ole. Was their loyalty just a Jose thing?

Jose Mourinho has won titles in every country he has been in. Ole won the Norwegian league in 2012. That's the difference.