Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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The defensive records under Mourinho and Ole really stick out.

I didn't even think we were a particularly solid team at any point under Jose, at least not to the standards I expect from a Jose team. People will say he had De Gea bailing him out, and he did. But he also had a first choice back four consisting of Valencia - Smalling - Jones - Young.

Ole now has a De Gea back in form and a centreback pairing that's the envy of Europe in Varane and Maguire. And a £50m right back. And Shaw who many would say has been the best left back in the league for a while. And he plays two high energy defensive midfielders in front of them in every single game.

And yet our defensive record has been shambolic.
 
Roboc7 said:
We don’t need to wait and see though, Ole isn’t as good as Klopp, he’s not going to achieve as much. I can never comprehend why people mention the two of them together in defence of Ole, all it shows is that a much better manager can do a much better job.

The only comparison we should be making with Klopp is to show how badly we’ve got it wrong again, every manager post SAF has been the wrong choice and we’re still out of touch and old fashioned in our approach.
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Well there may be some of us whose confidence in the total accuracy of your judgment doesn't quite run to dispensing altogether with the possibility things might go better than you assume.
 
justsomebloke said:
Well, it's not very different with us. De Gea and Pogba are the only only remaining starters from back then.
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Yes but this was an answer to a poster claiming Ole should be compared to Rodgers since he set up the bases for Klopp to succeed. Which is plain wrong.
 
Not sure where to post this, but scholes and Neville talk about Ole at the start

 
FreakyJim said:
Rebuild isn't done yet though. Ole needs another 500mil to round it up to a cool billion spent, get Rice, Trippier and whoever else AND then and just then we can start judging.
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But afterwards Ole inners will start saying we need a new striker and midfield because Cristiano Ronaldo and Pogba are 50 years old and then we'd need another revamp. It's never-ending to them, we're going around circles with the goal of Ole always having ready made excuses for being shit. I've seen miles worse teams win titles. Why? The manager. Nobody can argue on paper our team is any worse than Liverpool, Chelsea or City's. Yet our performances suggest we're way, way down the pecking order.
 
hobbers said:
The defensive records under Mourinho and Ole really stick out.

I didn't even think we were a particularly solid team at any point under Jose, at least not to the standards I expect from a Jose team. People will say he had De Gea bailing him out, and he did. But he also had a first choice back four consisting of Valencia - Smalling - Jones - Young.

Ole now has a De Gea back in form and a centreback pairing that's the envy of Europe in Varane and Maguire. And a £50m right back. And Shaw who many would say has been the best left back in the league for a while. And he plays two high energy defensive midfielders in front of them in every single game.

And yet our defensive record has been shambolic.
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I’ve been saying this for some time, it doesn’t reflect greatly on our £80mil CB either.

Bar the season Jose was actively attempting to get fired we conceded the most goals last season for nearly 2 decades. It’s simply not good enough.
 
SAFMUTD said:
So he left good vibes or something? :lol:

How else are you supposed to establish bases for another manager to succeed if the whole squad was changed?
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Well, first off he signed Firmino, and 3 of his signings started the CL Final against Real.

If you're too shortsighted to see the comparisons, that ain't my problem.
 
Mourinho wasn't a bad manager for us for the majority of his spell so it's hardly surprising his record stands up well compared to Ole.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
I’ve been saying this for some time, it doesn’t reflect greatly on our £80mil CB either.

Bar the season Jose was actively attempting to get fired we conceded the most goals last season for nearly 2 decades. It’s simply not good enough.
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Thing is, he spent £130m on AWB and Maguire; it's conceivable that a new manager would bin off both within 2 seasons. Neither signing has been anything like a resounding success.
 
Ayoba said:
Not sure where to post this, but scholes and Neville talk about Ole at the start

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Scholes 4:45 - Oles built a squad where he can leave out 4/5 top players now

Scholes 5:10 - Utd aren't good enough to be resting players
 
I get that Ole maybe irritating again - and ultimately his time will come be that success or sacking but how can you lot just sit here and talk about Jose Mourinho?

:(

This was a guy who turned the whole of the team towards getting the best out of one striker be that Zlatan Ibrahimovic or Lukaku. The next best was the CAM and that was it. This was during a time when other clubs were progressing in different ways.

The rest of the team was playing parking the bus stuff from start of the game.

The guy won stuff by trying not to lose.

Literally a bell end of a manager that got bought in to the club because of alot of the fans in the first place. He is part of the reason that Old Gunnar Solskjaer is here - just as much as the fans that wanted Mourinho in the first place.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Thing is, he spent £130m on AWB and Maguire; it's conceivable that a new manager would bin off both within 2 seasons. Neither signing has been anything like a resounding success.
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Mourinho could and should have bought Maguire for £16m the same summer he was buying Lindelof for £31m.

Also a right back as good as Valencia was for us (very underrated) is hard to find without spending decent money. The Wan Bissaka money could have been spent better in hindsight though.
 
Ayoba said:
Not sure where to post this, but scholes and Neville talk about Ole at the start

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You're never going to get an objective take from Neville and Scholes as Ole is their mate. So they default to the stance of "give him a chance". I think in recent times Carragher has been more insightful with his point of us spending all that money, having all these world class players who seem to have no problem putting in performances for their country, yet our team's style of play and organisation has been an absolute mess. That should all be on the manager.

Also a little disappointed to find out from that survey that over 70% of United fans still think Ole is the right man for the job :wenger:
 
Bebestation said:
I get that Ole maybe irritating again - and ultimately his time will come be that success or sacking but how can you lot just sit here and talk about Jose Mourinho?

:(

This was a guy who turned the whole of the team towards getting the best out of one striker be that Zlatan Ibrahimovic or Lukaku. The next best was the CAM and that was it. This was during a time when other clubs were progressing in different ways.

The rest of the team was playing parking the bus stuff from start of the game.

The guy won stuff by trying not to lose.

Literally a bell end of a manager that got bought in to the club because of alot of the fans in the first place. He is part of the reason that Old Gunnar Solskjaer is here - just as much as the fans that wanted Mourinho in the first place.
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The trouble is that has pretty much been Ole too since the Spurs hammering last season. The difference is Ole hasn't won anything to at least make up for the drab football.
 
Bebestation said:
I get that Ole maybe irritating again - and ultimately his time will come be that success or sacking but how can you lot just sit here and talk about Jose Mourinho?

:(

This was a guy who turned the whole of the team towards getting the best out of one striker be that Zlatan Ibrahimovic or Lukaku. The next best was the CAM and that was it. This was during a time when other clubs were progressing in different ways.

The rest of the team was playing parking the bus stuff from start of the game.

The guy won stuff by trying not to lose.

Literally a bell end of a manager that got bought in to the club because of alot of the fans in the first place. He is part of the reason that Old Gunnar Solskjaer is here - just as much as the fans that wanted Mourinho in the first place.
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I wouldn’t worry about the posters who bash Ole whilst talking positively about Mourinho, short memories or very naive.

Ole has achieved more good for the club than Mourinho ever did. I mean who would take those two cup wins for another period of him at the helm? Nobody.

I’d take building a top class side and making us truly competitive again over a couple of cups. At least we are on a stable footing with a largely balanced side, if it doesn’t work out this season we will at least hand the next manager a very good squad to work with, he’s put us on a positive path back to where we want to be (which is worth more than a few cups in my eyes), the previous so called better managers did the exact opposite.
 
meamth said:
Nagelsmann himself famously said:

A young man on the touchline who’s been able to supplement technical know-how with a well-developed sense of man-management. “Thirty per cent of coaching is tactics, 70% social competence,” he told Süddeutsche Zeitung in August, “every player is motivated by different things and needs to be addressed accordingly. At this level, the quality of the players at your disposal will ensure that you play well within a good tactical set-up – if the psychological condition is right.”

You can bring all the German coaches you want, but that is how I view a manager. Ole is a good man manager, the players just need to click now and we're back playing good football.
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But surely someone’s has to coach them quick passing and one touch football? It clearly isn’t being taught at carrington as we always start games really slow and only start playing once we’re losing.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
I’ve been saying this for some time, it doesn’t reflect greatly on our £80mil CB either.

Bar the season Jose was actively attempting to get fired we conceded the most goals last season for nearly 2 decades. It’s simply not good enough.
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Robbie Boy said:
Thing is, he spent £130m on AWB and Maguire; it's conceivable that a new manager would bin off both within 2 seasons. Neither signing has been anything like a resounding success.
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Our 80 mil CB signing was wanted by Ole, Jose and Pep. 3 different managers (in terms of approaching games / tactics). So chances are extremely high that a potential new manager will very much appreciate him.
We as a team don’t defend well which has also led to uncharacteristic mistakes even by someone like Varane. It puts the defence under a lot of pressure.

It’s the other expensive signing the potential new manager will have nightmares about. A player who no one else wants to buy so he will either leave us as free agent next summer for a 2nd time or we will be stupid enough to offer him another ridiculous contract.
 
Leftback99 said:
Mourinho could and should have bought Maguire for £16m the same summer he was buying Lindelof for £31m.

Also a right back as good as Valencia was for us (very underrated) is hard to find without spending decent money. The Wan Bissaka money could have been spent better in hindsight though.
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But he didn’t & Solskjaer sanctioned buying him for £80mil. Woulda-Coulda-Shoulda.

As much as you can criticise Jose for not signing him at £18mil, you have to question what the hell Solskjaer & co. we’re thinking signing him for £80mil. He’s a decent defender but being better than Smalling shouldn’t make you an £80mil defender.

I’m not even going to get into Valencia, I’d take him hitting the first senders shins over AWB but he was hardly the standard bearer.
Robbie Boy said:
Thing is, he spent £130m on AWB and Maguire; it's conceivable that a new manager would bin off both within 2 seasons. Neither signing has been anything like a resounding success.
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This./
 
united_99 said:
Our 80 mil CB signing was wanted by Ole, Jose and Pep. 3 different managers (in terms of approaching games / tactics). So chances are extremely high that a potential new manager will very much appreciate him.
We as a team don’t defend well which has also led to uncharacteristic mistakes even by someone like Varane. It puts the defence under a lot of pressure.

It’s the other expensive signing the potential new manager will have nightmares about. A player who no one else wants to buy so he will either leave us as free agent next summer for a 2nd time or we will be stupid enough to offer him another ridiculous contract.
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I'm not saying another manager wouldn't appreciate him, but I do think he's overrated, and it's not a given that a new manager would stick with him. Whereas with Varane, you feel no matter who comes in, they'll stick with him as long as possible.

I don't really get into Pogba debates tbh. I don't think he's ever fulfilled his potential here, that much is obvious.

Even though Ole will leave behind a good side when he leaves, I feel any new manager will overhaul it quite a-bit within two years.
 
united_99 said:
Our 80 mil CB signing was wanted by Ole, Jose and Pep. 3 different managers (in terms of approaching games / tactics). So chances are extremely high that a potential new manager will very much appreciate him.
We as a team don’t defend well which has also led to uncharacteristic mistakes even by someone like Varane. It puts the defence under a lot of pressure.

It’s the other expensive signing the potential new manager will have nightmares about. A player who no one else wants to buy so he will either leave us as free agent next summer for a 2nd time or we will be stupid enough to offer him another ridiculous contract.
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How this turned into an anti-Pogba post in defence of our club captain who’s won nothing in the game would astound me of this weren’t RedCaf.

Back to Maguire though, we as a team don’t defend well & have been playing 2 DMs to babysit him. If your defence of Maguire is, ‘he isn’t Paul Pogba’ then it says a lot about the case your making.
 
united_99 said:
Our 80 mil CB signing was wanted by Ole, Jose and Pep. 3 different managers (in terms of approaching games / tactics). So chances are extremely high that a potential new manager will very much appreciate him.
We as a team don’t defend well which has also led to uncharacteristic mistakes even by someone like Varane. It puts the defence under a lot of pressure.

It’s the other expensive signing the potential new manager will have nightmares about. A player who no one else wants to buy so he will either leave us as free agent next summer for a 2nd time or we will be stupid enough to offer him another ridiculous contract.
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The difference is that Jose wanted him when he had a much lower price. Anyway, Maguire himself is a good CB, we're just defensively shambles due to not being coached right. I mean we've conceded less goals with Mourinho having a backline of Smalling and Baily and we were not good at defending all that well back then either. But if Mourinho can do that with those 2, then surely Ole has to deliver better results with a backline of Maguire-Varane
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
How this turned into an anti-Pogba post in defence of our club captain who’s won nothing in the game would astound me of this weren’t RedCaf.

Back to Maguire though, we as a team don’t defend well & have been playing 2 DMs to babysit him. If your defence of Maguire is, ‘he isn’t Paul Pogba’ then it says a lot about the case your making.
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I couldn’t care less about what Pogba has won outside United.
And you are wrong as neither Fred nor McT are DMs.
Finally no one is babysitting Maguire, otherwise you could make a case for almost any defender:
Thiago Silva is being protected by 3 at the back plus a world class DM plus a hardworking Mount ahead of him, etc.
 
united_99 said:
I couldn’t care less about what Pogba has won outside United.
And you are wrong as neither Fred nor McT are DMs.
Finally no one is babysitting Maguire, otherwise you could make a case for almost any defender:
Thiago Silva is being protected by 3 at the back plus a world class DM plus a hardworking Mount ahead of him, etc.
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Neither could I, though he’s scored & won in a Final for United. . . Strange hill of ignorance to die on defending a fellow £80mil signing who’s captained the club to feck all in a longer time with a better team.

You’re correct neither of McFred are DMs, they’re the driving creative forces at the base of the 2-3-1. . .

I couldn’t care less about Thiago Silva.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
But he didn’t & Solskjaer sanctioned buying him for £80mil. Woulda-Coulda-Shoulda.

As much as you can criticise Jose for not signing him at £18mil, you have to question what the hell Solskjaer & co. we’re thinking signing him for £80mil. He’s a decent defender but being better than Smalling shouldn’t make you an £80mil defender.

I’m not even going to get into Valencia, I’d take him hitting the first senders shins over AWB but he was hardly the standard bearer.

This./
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I think he's been a good signing myself. Wan Bissaka I would have probably bought myself at the time but looks a mistake in hindsight.
 
Sviken said:
The difference is that Jose wanted him when he had a much lower price. Anyway, Maguire himself is a good CB, we're just defensively shambles due to not being coached right. I mean we've conceded less goals with Mourinho having a backline of Smalling and Baily and we were not good at defending all that well back then either. But if Mourinho can do that with those 2, then surely Ole has to deliver better results with a backline of Maguire-Varane
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Jose was extremely defensive, he asked the entire team to defend whereas Ole mostly doesn’t ask our attacking players to defend much.
Goals conceded isn’t purely on the defence, but also on the goal keeper and expecially depends on the way the team plays.

In 1998/99 for example we had a great goal keeper and defence plus Keane, but still conceded a lot of goals. This was mainly because we were set up to attack and as a result almost always outscored our opponent.
Nowadays however, especially this season we haven’t clicked at all. We are neither defending nor attacking well.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Neither could I, though he’s scored & won in a Final for United. . . Strange hill of ignorance to die on defending a fellow £80mil signing who’s captained the club to feck all in a longer time with a better team.

You’re correct neither of McFred are DMs, they’re the driving creative forces at the base of the 2-3-1. . .

I couldn’t care less about Thiago Silva.
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Great achievement - only matched by Mata and Lingard in our recent history.
 
Leftback99 said:
I think he's been a good signing myself. Wan Bissaka I would have probably bought myself at the time but looks a mistake in hindsight.
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I like him mate, I just honestly think spending £80mil on a CB at that time was ridiculous.

I’m not Klopp’s biggest fan but how he built from the front then worked out the CB he needed, our scattergun approach hasn’t fixed any department entirely.
 
Leftback99 said:
Mourinho wasn't a bad manager for us for the majority of his spell so it's hardly surprising his record stands up well compared to Ole.
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Indeed it turned to shit towards the end, final few months. But his run up until the end of his first season stands up. People tend to want to only compare the last few months of Jose's reign vs first few weeks of Ole's

We weren't playing Roy of the Rovers stuff but we won two trophies and were progressing.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Well, first off he signed Firmino, and 3 of his signings started the CL Final against Real.

If you're too shortsighted to see the comparisons, that ain't my problem.
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3 out of 11 wow....ok by that logic if by some miracle we manage to win a major title this season we'll have to thank Mourinho for setting up the bases for Ole since he signed Pogba, Fred and gave McTominay his debut. Or Van Gaal for setting up the bases with Shaw and giving Rashford his debut... :lol:

3 players starting out of 11, 3 seasons later and just 1 at the beggining of the 4th season, thats some way to set up the bases :cool:
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
So that’s 2 more players who’ve done more than Maguire has for the club.

The defence for Maguire is now, ‘he isn’t Pogba, Mata or Lingard’.
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You need to look more at your defence of Pogba. You are mentioning Maguire’s lack of trophies with us and then pointing to Pogba’s goal in the mighty EL final as if he had scored the winner in a CL final.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
I like him mate, I just honestly think spending £80mil on a CB at that time was ridiculous.

I’m not Klopp’s biggest fan but how he built from the front then worked out the CB he needed, our scattergun approach hasn’t fixed any department entirely.
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I don't know, I think we needed a CB at the time and in particular some sort of leadership.

I think if you dominate in midfield and attack the personnel in defence is less important but Ole has never sorted the midfield.
 
SAFMUTD said:
3 out of 11 wow....ok by that logic if by some miracle we manage to win a major title this season we'll have to thank Mourinho for setting up the bases for Ole since he signed Pogba, Fred and gave McTominay his debut. Or Van Gaal for setting up the bases with Shaw and giving Rashford his debut... :lol:

3 players starting out of 11, 3 seasons later and just 1 at the beggining of the 4th season, thats some way to set up the bases :cool:
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Ok cool. You took what you wanted from my post.
 
Kaos said:
Also a little disappointed to find out from that survey that over 70% of United fans still think Ole is the right man for the job :wenger:
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Gonna go out on a limb and say it was an in person survey carried out after a win.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Ok cool. You took what you wanted from my post.
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Sorry mate but its just nonsense, I just find it funny up to what lenghts people will go before saying "my bad I thought it was different it turns is isnt" but carry on man, 3 out of 11 great bases.
 
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