Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[red4ever 79]

That is one hard b@stard there. The former ufc fighter is pretty handy too. Seeing SAF criticise the selection is not surprising

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[UnitedSofa]

Ronaldo isn't just any 36 years old player. This is the problem with Ole. He is absolutely clueless when it comes to man management and by the looks of it it is pissing both Ronaldo and Pogba off. Pretty sure Bruno is mad about the whole thing as well. People call Ole a good man manager, but I just don't see it. He's simply not toxic as Mourinho, but that doesn't make him good. A good man manager would be Klopp or Pep. Fergie knows what's up. Also, Fergie never rotated his best players or did very often. I don't remember RVP being rotated all that much or at all. Sure, he'd start the reserves in cup games (albeit he'd field a few starters), but generally in important matches you wouldn't see the team without Rooney/Ronaldo/Persie/Scholes or whoever.

At this point Ole might just lose the dressing room. I don't like the signs Pogba and Ronaldo are showing already.

Just how? Where are the signs? How are you seeing this? Because Ronaldo was pissed at full time? He was pissed we drew the game.

No chance he has lost the dressing room, I keep saying it but look at how the lads responded in the Villareal game, look at how they celebrated the Telles goal, pure passion and wanting to go again and get the winner. Look at how they celebrated the winner. This is a team that is most certainly playing for the manager.

Look at how happy they were when Martial scored, this is a tight and together team.

There is a zero percent chance that Ole will lose the dressing room.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

fecking hell the board do such weird things at such weird times…

Awfully run club, just awful decisions from the top down.

 

[UnitedSofa]

fecking hell the board do such weird things at such weird times…

Awfully run club, just awful decisions from the top down.

Eh? how is this a weird or bad time? Bad time just because you want Ole sacked? (I'm assuming here simply because you seem to have a negative reaction to the assistant manager signing a new contract)

Just out of interest when would be the ideal time for Phelan to sign a new contract?

How would you run the contracts department?

 

[red4ever 79]

Eh? how is this a weird or bad time? Bad time just because you want Ole sacked? (I'm assuming here simply because you seem to have a negative reaction to the assistant manager signing a new contract)

Just out of interest when would be the ideal time for Phelan to sign a new contract?

How would you run the contracts department?

Well I wouldn't have renewed Jones, Bailly and Mata for starters. I wouldn't be offering Lingard a new deal either

 

[Sviken]

Just how? Where are the signs? How are you seeing this? Because Ronaldo was pissed at full time? He was pissed we drew the game.

No chance he has lost the dressing room, I keep saying it but look at how the lads responded in the Villareal game, look at how they celebrated the Telles goal, pure passion and wanting to go again and get the winner. Look at how they celebrated the winner. This is a team that is most certainly playing for the manager.

Look at how happy they were when Martial scored, this is a tight and together team.

There is a zero percent chance that Ole will lose the dressing room.

Ronaldo wouldn't be throwing out insults like that if he wasn't pissed off majorly and it's obviously not just the loss. When Pogba was subbed off he didn't seem very warmly towards Solskjaer and after the Villareal game he basically brushed past him when Ole wanted to hug him. Bruno has also been pissed off recently and times and times again said this club needs to win trophies and everything else doesn't matter. Of course the squad is happy when they win, it was the same under Mourinho and Moyes. They celebrated. I doubt any player would go out there no matter how much he dislikes a manager with the intention to lose, certainly not at a top club. But there are worrying signs showing already.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Well I wouldn't have renewed Jones, Bailly and Mata for starters. I wouldn't be offering Lingard a new deal either

The same Lingard that set up the winner against Villarreal and the same Lingard that scored the winner against West Ham?

Lingard has been on fire lately and has been one of our best performers every time he has come on. He is the workhorse attacking mid that will get the best out of Ronaldo and he deserves a start.

 

[largelyworried]

This is all off the top of my head and will no doubt be picked apart by the forum, but here's what immediately springs to mind:

1. He's done a lot of good for the club since he was hired, and the goodwill he generated from this hasn't yet evaporated because of a bad run of form
2. His stats since he took over still compare favourably to other managers
3. He's got us consecutive top three finishes in the past two seasons
4. He's signed well, and sold well too - even if he hasn't managed to shift all of the 'deadwood' yet
5. Despite the criticisms on coaching he has gotten improved performances out of certain players, eg. Shaw, Greenwood. I daresay even the likes of Fred & McTominay improved under him until their recent drop in form
6. He's done well against the top six, eg. Pep
7. He puts the club first unlike Jose or LVG, or potentially someone like Conte
8. He's got a really fecking tough job, and will benefit from our support
9. We often start seasons indifferently, sacking him in October when 2 points off top spot would be kneejerk
10. I don't want Conte or Zidane managing us, and better alternatives aren't available
11. Forum favourites like Poch or Nagelsmann have hardly been perfect so far despite having amazing squads at their disposal
12. I honestly believe the players still buy into him as a leader, although I do worry the media and recent fan reactions will eat away at this

I said before the season started this was a make or break this season and I stand by it. If he fails this season and there is a strong alternative in the market I'd be inclined to move on.

If Klopp or Pep were available I'd take them tomorrow, but they aren't. I'd consider Poch or Nagelsmann or Ten Hag but none of these are available either, and in the case of the first two I'd like to see them prove themselves at their current clubs.

I think we’re in a weird space at the moment. I feel like I did when Jose came second - you can’t realistically sack a manager when they’ve achieved what he did, but equally, you can just tell that things aren’t right and it feels like it’s only a matter of time before it goes wrong.

Sacking Ole would be wrong right now. If nothing else, it sets a precedent for future managers. We have to wait for Ole to actually fail before he can go, we can’t preempt it. But that means letting that whole unpleasant saga unfold slowly in front of us instead, which feels like a grim inevitability.

 

[Eli Zee]

Ole has taken us as far as he can... it's time to get a manager with some tactical nous and win some trophies, or at the very least compete. Don't see this squad coming close to winning EPL or CL with Ole as manager.

thank you for all you've done Ole and steadying the ship. It's time to move on

 

[Giggsy13]

Just another person to pay out when they’re sacked. Phelan literally adds nothing from a tactical standpoint. If we’re going to delve into the past, hire one of Carlos Queiroz or Rene Meulensteen as a coach to help with tactics. Sir Alex has long admitted the importance of having good assistants and coaches yet Ole doesn’t seem to follow.

 

[LJJT]

Just another person to pay out when they’re sacked. Phelan literally adds nothing from a tactical standpoint. If we’re going to delve into the past, hire one of Carlos Queiroz or Rene Meulensteen as a coach to help with tactics. Sir Alex has long admitted the importance of having good assistants and coaches yet Ole doesn’t seem to follow.

You seem to know more than everyone else what goes on behind the scenes. Can you provide specifics? Fergie “long admitted the importance of having good assistants and coaches”- , hence why Mike phelan was one such assistant/coach for many years. Something Ole is now following despite you saying he doesn’t follow this mantra?!

 

[Dve]

That is one hard b@stard there. The former ufc fighter is pretty handy too. Seeing SAF criticise the selection is not surprising

Ronaldo is 36 years old and played 90 minutes less than 3 days in prior to the match, and I really doubt him being benched is why we drew against Everton. Is Cavani - who has proven to be a prolific goalscorer and even runs more than Ronaldo - really such a drop-off? SAF loves Ronaldo, we all knew that, but what happened to the "we are running players into the grown" criticism? Now suddenly giving him a rest is a "sackable offence", according to former Villa striker; while not starting Lingard was "unbelievable", according to a former Liverpool striker. They can sod off.

 

[Giggsy13]

You seem to know more than everyone else what goes on behind the scenes. Can you provide specifics? Fergie “long admitted the importance of having good assistants and coaches”- , hence why Mike phelan was one such assistant/coach for many years. Something Ole is now following despite you saying he doesn’t follow this mantra?!

You and the other Ole in brigade are awfully prickly. Not a strong leg to stand on when your only response is to attack an opinion with the “hOw dO yOu kNoW wHats gOinG oN!?” I don’t, but I can reference the living God’s autobiography and previous times hes been quoted on the importance of having incredible assistants like Rene and Carlos who helped him grow as a manager by helping provide input in helping modernize his tactics especially when it came to the champions league. Are McKenna and Carrick on their level? Evidence of our current clueless patterns of play and tactics currently suggests no. But if you can sneak into the training ground to get a first hand account of this, by all means give it a go to enlighten us poor saps.

 

[soapythecat]

Do you think Ole just tells the players to just go out there and play?

I know it won’t happen because it’s been asked before and United turned it down, but I’d love for United to do an All Or Nothing Amazon Prime doc, just purely to highlight the tactics Ole is implementing, just purely so it will silence those who think Ole just has no clue what he’s doing. He has a UEFA license for chirst sakes, he’s not some sort of bum

My wife has a driving license but she’s an appalling driver.

 

[LJJT]

You and the other Ole in brigade are awfully prickly. Not a strong leg to stand on when your only response is to attack an opinion with the “hOw dO yOu kNoW wHats gOinG oN!?” I don’t, but I can reference the living God’s autobiography and previous times hes been quoted on the importance of having incredible assistants like Rene and Carlos who helped him grow as a manager by helping provide input in helping modernize his tactics especially when it came to the champions league. Are McKenna and Carrick on their level? Evidence of our current clueless patterns of play and tactics currently suggests no. But if you can sneak into the training ground to get a first hand account of this, by all means give it a go to enlighten us poor saps.

Everyone’s entitled to an opinion but you commenting on something no one knows anything about. Phelan might only put the cones out for all we know, maybe the old joke is true? He could be the glue that keeps the whole thing together and be the tactical mastermind behind all the good wins we’ve ever had. Bottom line is non of us have a clue so I find it strange how such bold statements can be made (which was also contradictory)

 

[ti vu]

"You should always start with your best players"

It's just a bit of silly isn't it. It's completely unviable to start a 36 year old every single game of the season.

The international break is coming. Their first game is a friendly. No mid week game in between Everton game and that friendly. Ronaldo likely not playing full 90 minutes then, and they as a whole wouldn't go with 100% intensity.

Now SAF is considered silly...

 

[SirAF]

Fergie is always right, end.

 

[soapythecat]

This is all off the top of my head and will no doubt be picked apart by the forum, but here's what immediately springs to mind:

1. He's done a lot of good for the club since he was hired, and the goodwill he generated from this hasn't yet evaporated because of a bad run of form
2. His stats since he took over still compare favourably to other managers
3. He's got us consecutive top three finishes in the past two seasons
4. He's signed well, and sold well too - even if he hasn't managed to shift all of the 'deadwood' yet
5. Despite the criticisms on coaching he has gotten improved performances out of certain players, eg. Shaw, Greenwood. I daresay even the likes of Fred & McTominay improved under him until their recent drop in form
6. He's done well against the top six, eg. Pep
7. He puts the club first unlike Jose or LVG, or potentially someone like Conte
8. He's got a really fecking tough job, and will benefit from our support
9. We often start seasons indifferently, sacking him in October when 2 points off top spot would be kneejerk
10. I don't want Conte or Zidane managing us, and better alternatives aren't available
11. Forum favourites like Poch or Nagelsmann have hardly been perfect so far despite having amazing squads at their disposal
12. I honestly believe the players still buy into him as a leader, although I do worry the media and recent fan reactions will eat away at this

I said before the season started this was a make or break this season and I stand by it. If he fails this season and there is a strong alternative in the market I'd be inclined to move on.

If Klopp or Pep were available I'd take them tomorrow, but they aren't. I'd consider Poch or Nagelsmann or Ten Hag but none of these are available either, and in the case of the first two I'd like to see them prove themselves at their current clubs.

I notice you don’t mention enjoyable, attacking football. All your points could be gleaned from not watching us and looking at league tables. We’ve flattered to deceive and largely the football is rubbish. We make the most average opposition midfielders into world beaters and give every opposition manager the easiest tactic talk in world football “sit deep and hit in break” and they find this very easy to do.
We’ve massively lucked in to finish where we have in the last few seasons but in reality the gulf in class between us and title challengers is another level. And that’s down to our inept manager.

 

[MUFC OK]

The same Lingard that set up the winner against Villarreal and the same Lingard that scored the winner against West Ham?

Lingard has been on fire lately and has been one of our best performers every time he has come on. He is the workhorse attacking mid that will get the best out of Ronaldo and he deserves a start.

Our best player along with CR7 so far this season. He deserves more opportunities and links well with Ronaldo.

 

[red4ever 79]

Ronaldo is 36 years old and played 90 minutes less than 3 days in prior to the match, and I really doubt him being benched is why we drew against Everton. Is Cavani - who has proven to be a prolific goalscorer and even runs more than Ronaldo - really such a drop-off? SAF loves Ronaldo, we all knew that, but what happened to the "we are running players into the grown" criticism? Now suddenly giving him a rest is a "sackable offence", according to former Villa striker; while not starting Lingard was "unbelievable", according to a former Liverpool striker. They can sod off.

We don't doubt the wisdom of SAF. He is the godfather.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

I think questions need to be asked about
1) Ole’s actual development of young players. Yes players have naturally improved with their talent, but how many have improved in aspects of their game that they are weak at? Has AWB’s attacking improved, has Rashford’s decision making improved (based on last season no), since being shunted to the right what’s been happening to Greenwood?

2) Ole’s squad handling and man management. Is it as good as we think? Or was he too scared/indecisive to trim the squad in areas where we have to many chefs in the kitchen. Martial, Lingard would have probably sold by another manager with no regards to how well they do at other clubs.

3) Is he getting the best out of the players he has? Definitely not out of Pogba & DVB, arguable all of our players can play better apart from DDG.

 

[RedRover]

Eh? how is this a weird or bad time? Bad time just because you want Ole sacked? (I'm assuming here simply because you seem to have a negative reaction to the assistant manager signing a new contract)

Just out of interest when would be the ideal time for Phelan to sign a new contract?

How would you run the contracts department?

Why would we offer him a new longer term deal unless his contract is due to expire imminently? It's just another cost when the manager gets sacked. He's hardly an up and coming young coach likely to be poached.

I assume that at the earliest the deal expires in the summer. Why not wait till then and see if he's actually part of the future?

Bizarre.

 

[RedRover]

I notice you don’t mention enjoyable, attacking football. All your points could be gleaned from not watching us and looking at league tables. We’ve flattered to deceive and largely the football is rubbish. We make the most average opposition midfielders into world beaters and give every opposition manager the easiest tactic talk in world football “sit deep and hit in break” and they find this very easy to do.
We’ve massively lucked in to finish where we have in the last few seasons but in reality the gulf in class between us and title challengers is another level. And that’s down to our inept manager.

We've been bailed out regularly by individuals. Usually Fernandes, and more recently by Ronaldo.

The cracks are obvious. We're too easy to play against and personally, I think you're spot on. Teams look to soak up the pressure (which is rarely incisive) and then hit us on the break.

The fact that we routinely look so poor until we go behind is a big red flag.

 

[dirkey]

Just another person to pay out when they’re sacked. Phelan literally adds nothing from a tactical standpoint. If we’re going to delve into the past, hire one of Carlos Queiroz or Rene Meulensteen as a coach to help with tactics. Sir Alex has long admitted the importance of having good assistants and coaches yet Ole doesn’t seem to follow.

Tell me, who appointed Mike Phelan as assistant manager in 2008?

 

[anant]

I think questions need to be asked about
1) Ole’s actual development of young players. Yes players have naturally improved with their talent, but how many have improved in aspects of their game that they are weak at? Has AWB’s attacking improved, has Rashford’s decision making improved (based on last season no), since being shunted to the right what’s been happening to Greenwood?

2) Ole’s squad handling and man management. Is it as good as we think? Or was he too scared/indecisive to trim the squad in areas where we have to many chefs in the kitchen. Martial, Lingard would have probably sold by another manager with no regards to how well they do at other clubs.

3) Is he getting the best out of the players he has? Definitely not out of Pogba & DVB, arguable all of our players can play better apart from DDG.

1. AWB's has improved. I don't think that's even debatable. The fact that he quite comfortably comes out with the ball in tricky situations is telling. Yeah, his technique is weird and he doesn't look that natural on the call, but if you compare the AWB from 1st season to the one we're having now, the difference in his attacking game is quite noticeable.
As far as Rashy's decision making is concerned, it depends what time period are you comparing it with and how much is down to Ole and how much is with general maturity. One thing is for certain, his best football in Utd colours has been under Ole. And you also have to admit that his dribbling ability has gone up by atleast 2 levels in the last season.
Greenwood - again tough to gauge where he would have been without Ole as there is no way of knowing. But again, he's done well so far

2. Martial, I agree should've been sold. Lingard - I can understand the reasoning for retaining him. He's among the only attackers left who actually gives a shift defensively and I'm quite sure he'd start atleast one of the big games coming up because of that. As much as Greenwood and CR7 offer the offensive threat, their defensive workrate is pretty poor.

3. This season? Only DDG. If we're considering his tenure, I'd say McT, Fred, Martial, Rashford, Pog, Lindelof, Shaw have all played their best football in United colours under him (obviously not including his signings or players he gave debuts to)

 

[Strats]

I think questions need to be asked about
1) Ole’s actual development of young players. Yes players have naturally improved with their talent, but how many have improved in aspects of their game that they are weak at? Has AWB’s attacking improved, has Rashford’s decision making improved (based on last season no), since being shunted to the right what’s been happening to Greenwood?

2) Ole’s squad handling and man management. Is it as good as we think? Or was he too scared/indecisive to trim the squad in areas where we have to many chefs in the kitchen. Martial, Lingard would have probably sold by another manager with no regards to how well they do at other clubs.

3) Is he getting the best out of the players he has? Definitely not out of Pogba & DVB, arguable all of our players can play better apart from DDG.

And a big reason to why DDG has improved is that our defensive structure is bad, I think Varane and Lindelof have been doing well but we just concede far too many chances for a team who with sensible management could challenge for titles.

I think Neville was spot on saying that we concede far too many chances on the counter.

 

[sugar_kane]

I notice you don’t mention enjoyable, attacking football. All your points could be gleaned from not watching us and looking at league tables. We’ve flattered to deceive and largely the football is rubbish. We make the most average opposition midfielders into world beaters and give every opposition manager the easiest tactic talk in world football “sit deep and hit in break” and they find this very easy to do.
We’ve massively lucked in to finish where we have in the last few seasons but in reality the gulf in class between us and title challengers is another level. And that’s down to our inept manager.

I didn’t, so thanks for reminding me as that would be a reason as well.

I’ve enjoyed a lot of games under Ole, much more so than at any other point since Fergie.

Its been pretty crap overall this season but there’s been plenty of bright moments that I have enjoyed under Ole, even the odd one this season.

 

[Ole90+3]

The international break is coming. Their first game is a friendly. No mid week game in between Everton game and that friendly. Ronaldo likely not playing full 90 minutes then, and they as a whole wouldn't go with 100% intensity.

Now SAF is considered silly...

SAF said you should always start your best players. It’s not really that simple though is it? Don’t be condescending

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

1. AWB's has improved. I don't think that's even debatable. The fact that he quite comfortably comes out with the ball in tricky situations is telling. Yeah, his technique is weird and he doesn't look that natural on the call, but if you compare the AWB from 1st season to the one we're having now, the difference in his attacking game is quite noticeable.
As far as Rashy's decision making is concerned, it depends what time period are you comparing it with and how much is down to Ole and how much is with general maturity. One thing is for certain, his best football in Utd colours has been under Ole. And you also have to admit that his dribbling ability has gone up by atleast 2 levels in the last season.
Greenwood - again tough to gauge where he would have been without Ole as there is no way of knowing. But again, he's done well so far

2. Martial, I agree should've been sold. Lingard - I can understand the reasoning for retaining him. He's among the only attackers left who actually gives a shift defensively and I'm quite sure he'd start atleast one of the big games coming up because of that. As much as Greenwood and CR7 offer the offensive threat, their defensive workrate is pretty poor.

3. This season? Only DDG. If we're considering his tenure, I'd say McT, Fred, Martial, Rashford, Pog, Lindelof, Shaw have all played their best football in United colours under him (obviously not including his signings or players he gave debuts to)

Rashford dribbling has always been part of his game so would naturally improve the more he plays wide. However, considering how often he dribbles into dead ends I don’t think it’s improved.

Big difference between players playing their best football for a short spell during a 3 year period and a player developing and improving under a manager.

 

[anant]

"You should always start with your best players"

It's just a bit of silly isn't it. It's completely unviable to start a 36 year old every single game of the season.

Genuinely interested in knowing what the conversation was before that. The conversation didn't just start there, we all know that

 

[anant]

Rashford dribbling has always been part of his game so would naturally improve the more he plays wide. However, considering how often he dribbles into dead ends I don’t think it’s improved.

Big difference between players playing their best football for a short spell during a 3 year period and a player developing and improving under a manager.

Fred, McT, Lindelof, Shaw were all heading for the exit. Lindelof has been more than decent last season and a half or so, Fred and McT had a decent season last year and Shaw is considered among the best LBs. Surely that's solid improvement.

For the Rashford part, the dribbling wasn't this consistent. I think most people saw that his dribbling went up a level or two last season. How much was doen to coaches is obviously debatable

 

[JG3001]

He’s Ole out, just hasn’t got the balls to outright say it.

 

[Trequarista10]

I wonder if he actually has a "top 4 finish" clause in his contract.

I expect he and most managers have various performance bonus clauses, and probably performance targets that impact the amount of compensation due.

 

[Dve]

And a big reason to why DDG has improved is that our defensive structure is bad, I think Varane and Lindelof have been doing well but we just concede far too many chances for a team who with sensible management could challenge for titles.

I think Neville was spot on saying that we concede far too many chances on the counter.

Just looked through the highlights of all our PL matches, and many of the chances we concede are due to individual errors - like in the last match where Varane is hitting thick air instead of the ball. And I counted 3 chances conceded after individual errors by Maguire alone (giving away the ball in dangerous positions), and this hardly has anything to do with coaching. And in the last match, when Everton scored their goal, Shaw decides to leave his area totally empty and is instead chasing the player that Lindelöf and Bissaka already are at. No coach told him to do that; it´s simply very bad judgement from Shaw. He is not in this best form, and neither has Maguire been (closer to Christmas, I trust they will be).

Other chances we concede are results of poor ball losses in the middle, often by Fernandes and Pogba - and Fred, of course - which leads to counter attacks, and in these situations we often find ourselves a bit short of men behind the ball. This is a result of us trying to play more offensive football, and then counters are hard to prevent. We have often enough been at the other end of it, e.g. against City, so this applies to them as well, for the same reason.

Another issue is lost duels in the middle; there are too many 50-50 situations where the opposition end up with the ball; we simply lack physicality in the middle with Fred on the pitch, and Fernandes is not the most physical player either.

If there is one thing I would criticise the Ole for, it´s picking Fred in the first place. But in the end, I guess you lose some and gain some by picking Matic - still in my opinion, much to prefer. Donny? Well, there must be something the analysing team are spotting that is not so obvious for the naked eye - something that makes is hard to trust him in the nr. 6 role. Shewing gum, or not.

 

[EtH]

And a big reason to why DDG has improved is that our defensive structure is bad, I think Varane and Lindelof have been doing well but we just concede far too many chances for a team who with sensible management could challenge for titles.

I think Neville was spot on saying that we concede far too many chances on the counter.

Good point and it’s a real concern because teams seem to have a blueprint for playing against us now. Sit back, nick the ball and run straight at our midfield. It’s so frustrating to watch the central defenders basically defending on their own with both AWB and Shaw pushed so far up the pitch and our midfielders offering little to no protection. Has to be sorted out or Ole is a goner.

 

[ti vu]

SAF said you should always start your best players. It’s not really that simple though is it? Don’t be condescending

You think SAF is as silly as you implied that he would not know how to manage players fitness, having no understanding of resting and rotation? "should" doesn't mean "must", no?

The one being condescending is you.

I provided a response with context on how a 36 year old could have started the Everton game, and would still enough time to rest and recover. You only try to nitpick trivial stuffs to distract from the point, even ignoring context: SAF knows what his stuffs; the actual situation: international break coming (already rested in League Cup, and having no League Cup = lessened schedule going forward).

 

[BlueHaze]

Thanks for this clip. That was wholesome watching the UFC all time great chatting with Sir Alex and ask about his health.

 

[BlueHaze]

He’s Ole out, just hasn’t got the balls to outright say it.

He was out on all the managers post SAF he just kinda says it without saying it. Kinda makes him look a little silly.

 

[Mickeza]

He was out on all the managers post SAF he just kinda says it without saying it. Kinda makes him look a little silly.

He wasn’t Jose out. He went fecking ballistic when news broke we were sacking him around the Newcastle game. Proper little top rant.