18 months? feck off, it's 8 months till the end of May. And why has he got a bum on his forehead.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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18 months? feck off, it's 8 months till the end of May. And why has he got a bum on his forehead.
Well said. We needed to be ahead at this point really. Instead we've played crap, won 3 that we perhaps didn't deserve to and dropped points in other games against much weaker teams. Knocked out of one cup by West Ham and are stumbling our way through our group, which already could have been worse if not for heroic goalkeeping, Villarreal missing their key striker to convert all those chances, and a 90+5 goal to get us our 3 points.
And all of this is a continuation of the end to last season where we W3, D2 L4 in our last 9, including a loss to Villarreal in the EL final where we looked shite.
That would be season over. We can't allow it to go till then. Nobody would quibble if he went now in all honesty.
Ole won’t be sacked in 10 matches. He’ll get the season. He was just given a new contract and brought in players he wanted. Ronaldo was a huge bonus on top of that. The club are backing him. We're 2 points off the top after 7 matches. Yes, performances have been meh but it’s early in the season. Sacking Ole now and brining in someone like Conte would be mental.
He does correct it to be fair and say this season. He's basically saying he knows this is it for Ole this season as the competition is still better even after Ole has been backed more than anybody and has a team to compete and win things now.
The "keep calm until the end of the season" line said it all for me. Even his voice sounded dejected when talking about Ole going.
Can't see anything wrong with what he's saying there to be honest. I'm as Ole In as you'll ever get but even I am becoming a little baffled. I'm still gutted about the West Ham game and the Europa last season even more so. Getting a trophy would have given Solskjaer so much credit in the bank. I just think that he's really not helping himself at the moment.
Not a chance if we have a disaster run with these hard games coming up. Let’s say worst case scenario, we lose all the big head to heads, and some bad draws against the Spurs and Leicester type clubs so essentially take ~6 from 18 points. No way he survives that, it doesn’t matter if he had won trophies or was playing scintillating football, there has to be a minimum standard at a club who want to win major trophies.
GNev really is an idiot. You assess every manager the same way, give them a target for the season and judge them, according to that aim, throughout the season. If it becomes likely we will struggle for top four he will be gone. I don’t expect that to happen but he can definitely (as can any manager) get sacked in 10 games.
Neville is right though. Even if the team continues to underperform OGS is going nowhere until the end of the season unless there is a proper collapse which won’t happen with this squad. And that is a good thing considering the lack of quality managers available at the moment.
Might as well strap in and support the manager and the team for the time being.
Might as well strap in and support the manager and the team for the time being.
Better keep Ole until we find a good replacement. Or else they may go and get someone like Southgate or Sven Goran.
Really? Wasn't Gary Neville the one who said that Moyes wasn't going to go anywhere for three years at least?
Things change quickly in football, and if noises behind the scenes about certain players being disgruntled are true, and results and performances persist as currently, then I expect change.
Strapping in to watch a team of world class players perform like a mid table side for the club you love sounds like the toughest medicine imaginable. Not sure when we'll have players like Ronaldo, Cavani and Varane playing together again and they're not getting any younger either.
yeah this is why you take anything the club leaks with a pinch of salt, its all PR. if the fans turn en masse he will be gone
After watching Liverpool and City play today, I can’t wait for Ole to either (a) revamp our playing style and deploy a midfield without Fred or MCT or (b) step aside for someone who can.
Great players don’t make a team. Ole needs to acknowledge that.
If we carry on like this we might end up finishing over 20 points away from the leaders.
Great players don’t make a team. Ole needs to acknowledge that.
If we carry on like this we might end up finishing over 20 points away from the leaders.
He can be wrong then and right now. The fact that he’s gone as far as saying this season is make or break means he’s not just trying to protect his mate or the manager.
But change for change sake could potentially set us back. It’s more important to make a measured decision and get it right.
It’s not a lovely prospect, but it is far better than basically ripping up everything we’ve built back up under OGS just to maybe win a trophy with a cnut like Conte.
There is simply no one available at the moment who makes sense as a replacement.
How is sacking an underperforming manager to rescue a season ''change for change's sake"?
What is it precisely about sacking a manager that gets United fans all twisted up inside? There will never be another SAF; the sooner y'all realize that, the better. You can't with one breath admit the genius of the man, and with another say we can find another one so easily a mere decade after he retired. The quality of genius is its rarity.
And regarding 'a measured decision': the club hierarchy certainly didn't make that when they gave him the permanent gig. After making all kinds of noises about waiting till the end of the season to make a decision on a permanent manager, they went ahead and got emotional and hired him on the back of a flukey win in Paris. This is the calibre of decision-making we're talking about here, and you think we ought to stay saddled with it?
It’s change for change sake if there is no legitimate option available to replace him.
And I agree that the club didn’t make a measured decision in making him permanent manager in the first place. But surely that would only underscore the fact that we don’t need to do the same again. The next man has to be the right man. Not just the best available at that moment.
The part about Ole seeing out the season was fact. They just renewed his contract. Even if they lost faith which they won't, there'd still be vanity reasons to act like all is moving according to plan. One of the reasons that renewal was so idiotic. If not for it we wouldn't be talking about a sacking we'd be talking about a honourable handing over to the next manager after a stellar rebuilding job by Ole. There was no need to place that bet when we did. How much difference has the certainty really made? We might look even worse than last season relative to the talent on the pitch.
Out of curiosity, how can you know the next man is the right man? And if he isn't, what's stopping us from dumping him and hire another?
Putting artificial pressure like that on the decision is unhealthy for all involved. Let's say we get rid of Ole right now, what's the worst thing that can happen? We won't spend a lot, if any, during the winter transfer market, Pogba may not renew, but that's a possibility the club should already have taken into account by not selling him, and probably will happen anyway with Ole here, the rest of the squad is tied up in long term contract or loan/short term deal, so the new coach cant mess it up (nor should he be allowed to). We can face missing out on the CL for a year, which most likely wont happen as the likes of Everton, West Ham, Arsenal, Spurs dont have the squad to compete with us over the season. And if we find ourselves trophyless and at 4th come May, or even in EL surely some compensation to send said coach on his way wont hamper our ability to spend in the summer, nor our recruitment of a new coach?
That's the mind boggling thing about all this. Finding a new coach isnt hard, sacking an underperforming coach isnt hard, other big clubs do it all the time, sometimes multiple times in the same season. Why is it such a big deal for us with all the resources that we can bring to bear? There are hundreds of coaches who would jump at the chance to manage Man Utd at any point in the season. Sack until you are back.
Sure managers would jump at the chance to manage us. But that doesn’t mean someone like say Ten Hag would leave Ajax midseason. It’s just not realistic. So then you’re looking at managers who are available at the moment and none of them are a fit.
We could certainly go to a caretaker situation again, but I just don’t see it getting bad enough for the club to feel the need to take that action. In fact I think you and everyone else calling for it are absolutely kidding yourselves.
Feels like the amount of time people are willing to be patient with Ole keeps getting extended. “Give him til”
The guy is a bum
The guy is a bum
You're saying there's no legitimate alternative to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer as manager of Manchester United? A guy who, when we hired him, hadn't won anything since 2013 (a Norwegian domestic cup)?
And why does the next man need to be the right man? Why can't it be the man who works right now?
We've only had two post-war managers who've won us the league and the European Cup, and so I guess that's why we're fixated on the 'great-man-who-will-fix-everything' mythos of the manager. That's not the way of modern football, and we need to move away from that model. A manager, like a player, or any other member of staff, should be a cog in the machine; an important cog, but a cog nonetheless.
Like a nation in peacetime making plans in case of war, or like any club planning recruitment and selling-on players, we should as a matter of course be looking for possible managers at all times. That's just due diligence. But knowing how reactively this club is run (I mean who goes from LVG possession football, to the antifootball of Jose Mourinho?) that's nowhere near what we're doing.
I’m not expecting the next SAF. I’m just not letting my emotions get the best of me as you and others are. No way we should be making a “best we can do right now” decision at this point. We are one or two players away from challenging properly on all fronts.
The next man should be someone the club sees taking us forward and building on what we currently have. Those calling for Conte to come in now are asking for the exact opposite and the exact same nonsense of moving from LvG to Maureen.
If you have another viable option I’d be open to hearing it, but I don’t think we’re hiring anyone until this summer at the very earliest as there is no continuity in the currently available options.
Zidane makes a lot of sense. We could learn from previous mistakes and just sack Conte when he gets awkward. Same with dozens of younger talented coaches like Ten Hag or Potter, they dont need to know we'll bin them and move on immediately if it backfires. We've stuck with all kinds of junk for years and years we have some reputation in the bank to feck around for a couple of years.
Zidane makes no sense whatsoever being that he was basically Madrid’s Ole, isn’t a tactician and doesn’t speak English or have any interest in managing in England.
Conte would be Mourinho all over again and his tactics wouldn’t suit our squad at all. He also wouldn’t sign the sort of contract we would be happy to terminate 12-18 months in so that’s a silly notion.
Any others may or may not come until the summer. Most likely not. But again if you think the board are sacking OGS to hire Potter or a lesser known manager midseason again I say you’re kidding yourself.
It all reeks of desperation.
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Letting my emotions get the best of me? LOL!
What have I said that's emotional, exactly? Enlighten me, please.
What do I mean by the 'best right now'? The candidate you interview who can clearly state how he'd use the squad we currently have, allied with our traditions (which for me boils down to just playing the youth and winning), and get the best out of both. And I'm not looking for someone who'll necessarily be here even three years down the line (quite a few of the current squad are nearing their peak years, and will have to be replaced anyway by that time).
Second, I don't want Conte, and have never I said I do. Why would I want someone who only plays wingbacks when our squad isn't built like that?
I've a day job, so I'm not the one to scour what's out there looking for possible successors to Solskjaer. But I certainly expect a multimillion-dollar company like MUFC to have people dedicated to the task.
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Perhaps it’s not emotion. But there is a lack acceptance at the very least. Solskjær just signed an extension a few months back so the idea that we would sack him unless there is a meteoric drop down the table just isn’t remotely realistic.
Agreed on Conte then. And I do understand your point about the club making such preparations at all times. But being that we just thought it worth extending OGS it doesn’t seem like acting on those sorts of preparations would be a priority for the club unless the season goes totally sideways.
I won't lie. I have a very, very poor opinion about the people making decisions at this club.
My single overriding feeling is one of frustration. We can all see the writing on the wall, and rather than act preemptively to mitigate the inevitable, the club's hierarchy would rather live through it. Again.
What frightens me is, suppose we get a winning manager in. He wins us the league, maybe even the CL. But since all managers have a shelf life, there will be an inevitable downturn. Will we stick with him, because he's won things for us before, or will we do what any other top club would do and move on for both our sakes? My guess is the former, because that's how this club operates.
I would suggest not banking on that contract extension. These guys extended Mourinho's contract a further two years, with an option for a third, only to sack him months later. In principle, I have no problem with that: if you make a decision based on some evidence, and then get new evidence that things are not working, you're entitled to change your mind and reverse course before it's too late.
And we all know Woodward's a two-faced snake. (When's he leaving, by the way?)
The thing is this is what is precisely what I and others are pushing back on. Sure, a bunch of nobodies chatting on the Caf doesnt make a jot of difference to whether OGS stays or goes, but what we are saying is we want the club to adopt a much more aggressive mindset, to be proactive, to arrest the slide and not waste a whole season when the manager is leading us nowhere. Was it worth hanging onto Moyes until Fed when CL qualification became impossible? Was it worth keeping LvG in the job til the end of the season when we dropped down the table like a rock ? Was it worth keeping Mourinho months into the season when he shat on the club after the Sevilla match, or openly sabotaged the team by playing McTominay in defense?
There shouldn't be an acceptance that we only pull the trigger when we are up to our eyes in the shit. It's an unforgiving business this football lark. No one gave Madrid and Bayern shit for firing their CL winning or double winning manager mere games into the season, because they were vindicated when at the end of those seasons, they won things.
Myth.
The man who won 3CLs on the trot is now not considered good enough to replace Ole, the guy who was previously sacked for getting Cardiff relegated and struggling in the Championship.
Some of you really are just having a laugh now it seems under the garb of defending Ole.
The man who won 3CLs on the trot is now not considered good enough to replace Ole, the guy who was previously sacked for getting Cardiff relegated and struggling in the Championship.
Some of you really are just having a laugh now it seems under the garb of defending Ole.
No he is better. That's not what he is trying to say.
What he is saying is that alot of United supporters have complained about United not having a "playing style" under Ole.
Real Madrid to many people didn't have one either, except get the best out of players like Ronaldo, Benzema, Modric and getting helped by individual brilliance in the finals by Ramos and Bale.
I would love it if Ole got the best out of Ronaldo, Pogba, Bruno, Greenwood, Sanches, etc and helped us win trophies.
You really think people will care much if we are scoring goals and winning games. People are pissed off because we are rubbish and also not winning stuff.
All things considered, a manager who helps us win something with this group is such a massive incentive to make a change. We have not won the league for nearly a decade. Let that sink in before people cry about continuity/culture and all that other intangible nonsense.
If I remember right - Zidane was not that great in the league was he? He won more CL's than La Ligas and that league is neither the most competitive in both players and managers.
I wonder if he will find it harder competing with Pep, Tuchel, Klopp and the others over here. Lets see, as others have said he hardly seems to have an interest either. I think I prefer Luis Enrique and his Barcelona.
Quality control
Please I'm dead tired of y'all talking like Conte is a psychopath or a loser like Ole is, if anything we sack Ole now and I mean Now, if we get Conte in right now there's a good chance of winning either one of the biggest trophies, whilst making that clear to him with a clause in an 18 months contract.
I can surely see a Conte with his relentless drive to win, he'll push this Group of players we've got either to League or UCL glory come May, if not we can review his position at the end of the season look at which other Manager that's available and replace him.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m frustrated as well and have just as many or more concerns about OGS as most. But this is a bed which was made the minute the club made him permanent manager. Our matchgoers will be supporting him until the bitter end. It is not as simple as sacking just any other manager. It’s the problem with hiring a club legend. Especially at this club.
The structure is changing though with Fletcher and Murtough so we have to hope that pays dividends. Think Woodward is done end of the year but last I read it will just be another corporate coming in which is no surprise. But either way I am not interested in hiring a manager with the expectation of hiring another in the next year or two. I just don't see that as smart as we don't have the structure in place to rely on such chopping and changing. Not yet anyway.
With Ronaldo in the team
15/16: 20 league games, 53 points, PPG 2.65, came in when Real were in 3rd and 2 points behind Barca, finished 2nd 1 point behind
16/17: 38 league games, 93 points, PPG 2.45, won the league.
17/18: 38 league games, 76 points, PPG 2.00, finished 3rd.
Without Ronaldo in the team
18/19: 11 league games, 17 points, PPG 1.55, came in with 11 games to go, finished 3rd.
19/20: 38 league games, 87 points, PPG 2.29, won the league
20/21: 38 league games, 84 points, PPG 2.21, finished 2nd 2 points behind.
It's an extremely consistent and respectable record. His only real bad league season was 17/18 mostly due to Benzema and Ronaldo unable to score in the 1st half of the season, and still won the CL anyway.
Of course we all want the club to be proactive. But we've recently taken steps to change the structure. And we have a club legend as manager and one of if not the most loyal fanbase(s) on the planet. So expecting the board to be too proactive with this decision just isn't realistic. Either way I don't foresee any of the meltdowns we've seen previously.
It also needs to be said that the direction we want to take is all up to the new footballing men at this point. We now have a squad which is capable of playing on the front foot instead of relying on counters which is a credit to Ole. The issue at present seems to be whether or not OGS can work that new playing style out on the pitch with these players.
But either way we do not have a clear and distinct approach on the pitch as yet. So unless OGS works it out this season it is up to Fletcher and Murtough to decide what that should look like. And then the next manager should suit those stylistic objectives. But whatever that looks like however we'll not be seeing the new man this season while we're comfortably top four.
There's no guaranteed right man, you just pick the best that's available and hope he is the right one and move on if it turns out he isn't.
Yup and post Ronaldo it's not like he had the standout team. If anything they were ageing and looking lost following his departure. To come back, always come close to winning the league, win it once and reach a CL semi final, is job very well done. It's not the same as Pep having the highest quality team, always. Not that RM were a bad side but in transition with many past-it stars and many young ones still to mature. Only problem was the Hazard signing which was a terrible move.
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