Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Shark]

All great points and unfortunately I have no statistical proof to offer.

With this squad, we have 13 points from a possible 18 - with Ronaldo, Varane, Rashford and Cavani not being available for the first 2/3 games.

I don't know if there is enough sample size to judge him on performances or cohesion of his 'current squad'. Also any new set of players need some time to bed in - somehow ole is not afforded that by the media or the fans :P



They are two very different things. A less defined playing style doesn't mean you cant win trophies. The problem is equating the two.

They aren't really different, if Pep and Klopp are vastly superior managers cleaning up the major trophies where exactly does that leave us? of course Ole can get lucky playing as he does but the odds are tremendously stacked against us as a club moving forward. Also mind me asking why you deem it acceptable to play a lesser playing style also? the squad we have is capable of sublime football yet to hell with that because we need to keep Ole in the job.

 

[Tarrou]

Cultural reboot
Everything he achieved so far is at present time and once he is gone, everything will reset again with our new manager, for worse of for better. I don't believe in this "Laying foundation" thing, if you bring someone like Jose and you will have toxic atmosphere in no time again, regardless of current state.

I don't agree with the cultural reboot thing either, but the manager who takes over from him will have a far better squad than he had - so I don't agree it will reset. We're primed to become a top team under the right management. Three years ago we were one step away from becoming a middle-table side.

 

[crossy1686]

Leipzig is also a small club though. It doesn’t guarantee succes also doesn’t equal disaster. I think Ten Haag should have a go at a big club.
Ole also came from managing a very small club by the way.

They got to a semi of the CL, how small is small? When did Potter or Howe do that? Let's get some perspective on the names people are randomly linking to the biggest job in England

 

[anant]

They got to a semi of the CL, how small is small? When did Potter or Howe do that? Let's get some perspective on the names people are randomly linking to the biggest job in England

With the kind of structure we have, the demands and the responsibilities from a manager, I'd say it's possibly the biggest job in the world.

 

[Eplel]

Fecking Jesus wept. So would Shaun Dyche. Some of these names being thrown around are mental.

What's mental about them exactly? I mean,you do seem to have faith in someone who's failing for 3 years straight,and had Cardiff relegated before that, so what's your hang up with these guys.

On one hand you cry that Ole needs more time,on the other you cry that other managers are not good enough without even trying them.

Maybe you should stop having double standards.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Really hope he turns it around, one because it's Ole and him winning trophies as Utd manager is preferable to any other option, and two less importantly, I think the chances of signing Haaland might leave with him if hes sacked before next season.

 

[BusbyMalone]

One thing we’ve been good at under Ole is bouncing back from poor results.

Isn't it slightly concerning the number of times we have to do that though? Before anyone misconstrues what I'm saying, bouncing back from bad results is obviously a good thing. But the number of times he does it to seemingly save his job (although I don't think he's ever truly been under pressure) surely isn't good.

It's kind of similar to us always coming back from behind. Another excellent trait to have. But you don't necessarily want to rely on it consistently because that kind of implies you have a bit of a problem.

 

[MancFanFromManc]

My stance is always to back the manager to the end. That said, his "don't get to too down after a defeat, or too carried away after a win" is beginning to get on my nerves. He should be demanding a response after the Villa match. The first question to him in the next presser should be "why weren't your players up for it vs Villa" and any answer suggesting "they were" should be destroyed!

 

[Denis79]

My stance is always to back the manager to the end. That said, his "don't get to too down after a defeat, or too carried away after a win" is beginning to get on my nerves. He should be demanding a response after the Villa match. The first question to him in the next presser should be "why weren't your players up for it vs Villa" and any answer suggesting "they were" should be destroyed!

Glad not to be the only one feeling like this.

 

[Offside]

Isn't it slightly concerning the number of times we have to do that though? Before anyone misconstrues what I'm saying, bouncing back from bad results is obviously a good thing. But the number of times he does it to seemingly save his job (although I don't think he's ever truly been under pressure) surely isn't good.

It's kind of similar to us always coming back from behind. Another excellent trait to have. But you don't necessarily want to rely on it consistently because that kind of implies you have a bit of a problem.

We lost 1 league game in 6 months during the middle period of last season. 1 in 28 matches. Not sure it’s that concerning?

You can’t argue that the results have been improving under Ole. Even the start to this season is better than the last. It’s the performances that are a real concern and leads to silly dropped points which stops us competing for the title. For example that 1 loss in 28 games was against one of the worst PL sides in history (Sheff Utd) where we were barely able to string 2 passes together.

 

[Robbie Boy]

We lost 1 league game in 6 months during the middle period of last season. 1 in 28 matches. Not sure it’s that concerning?

You can’t argue that the results have been improving under Ole. Even the start to this season is better than the last. It’s the performances that are a real concern and leads to silly dropped points which stops us competing for the title. For example that 1 loss in 28 games was against one of the worst PL sides in history (Sheff Utd) where we were barely able to string 2 passes together.

You just picked a random sample though? Another random sample is something like 11 wins, 8 defeats and 3 draws since the end of last April. That swings it slightly, doesn't it.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

They got to a semi of the CL, how small is small? When did Potter or Howe do that? Let's get some perspective on the names people are randomly linking to the biggest job in England

Other not so well known managers have also reached the champions league semis, that wasn't the reason Bayern wanted him.
What exactly has Ole achieved to be signed as manager of possibly the biggest club on the planet then?

 

[BusbyMalone]

We lost 1 league game in 6 months during the middle period of last season. 1 in 28 matches. Not sure it’s that concerning?

You can’t argue that the results have been improving under Ole. Even the start to this season is better than the last. It’s the performance that are a real concern and leads to silly dropped points which stops us competing for the title. For example that 1 loss in 28 games was against one of the worst PL sides in history (Sheff Utd) where we were barely able to string 2 passes together.

Think you may have misconstrued what I'm saying here. I was talking about the fact that we do come back well from poor results and when he's seemingly under huge pressure, but it happens often. And a poor result isn't necessarily a loss. I was saying it's a good trait to have (much like coming from behind in games), but when it happens fairly often perhaps there's a problem there that is being papered over. Basically, now and then it's great. But when it starts to become a "thing" as it has done under Ole, perhaps that should be the issue that is focused on.

And I agree with what you're saying about performances. You see the result and think it's all good. But watching them you know there's something not right.

 

[AshRK]

It's not about Ole in or Ole out. It's about whether he can take us to the next stage. I struggle to see it. He has done a very good job till now and if people don't see it then they are just filled with agenda but now it's about taking it to the next level. We need to mount a proper title challenge. Losing to villa doesn't help and what's more worrying is how poor we have looked this season. We have to play better brand of football if we are to win. Right now we look like a team who play good football in moments.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

Leipzig is also a small club though. It doesn’t guarantee succes also doesn’t equal disaster. I think Ten Haag should have a go at a big club.
Ole also came from managing a very small club by the way.

Yes and look at how that’s turned out.

 

[tenpoless]

Ive heard about Ole preferring 4-3-3... well whats the holdup? not like we are currently dominating matches. Two DMs or one currently make very little difference. 4-3-3 diamond, give it a try. Try something new.

 

[crossy1686]

What's mental about them exactly? I mean,you do seem to have faith in someone who's failing for 3 years straight,and had Cardiff relegated before that, so what's your hang up with these guys.

On one hand you cry that Ole needs more time,on the other you cry that other managers are not good enough without even trying them.

Maybe you should stop having double standards.

What’s mental about them? Do I really need to explain that to you?

How do you think players like Ronaldo will feel in their final years at the top flight, or Pogba in the final year of the contract will feel if we appoint a manager that is a long term project? When will a manager like Potter be expected to win a trophy? This season? Next season? Based on what? His excellent record in the CL or PL?

It’s time to pull your head out of your arse and realise that if we are going to sack Solskjaer, which it’s looking increasingly likely we will, the last thing we should do is replace him with a manager who has less experience winning things than he does.

The best case scenario for everyone involved is that Solskjaer wakes the feck up and stops wasting a golden opportunity. But yeah, go ahead and tell me what I think with your nonsense posts.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Yes and look at how that’s turned out.

I know, I was just saying if we can give Ole who had achieved nothing in a proper league before us then why not give those other managers a chance.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

I know, I was just saying if we can give Ole who had achieved nothing in a proper league before us then why not give those other managers a chance.

Yeah that’s true, I thought you were saying Ole had been a roaring success from a smaller club.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Yeah that’s true, I thought you were saying Ole had been a roaring success from a smaller club.

Mate no. Cardiff was his premier league team prior to us. That was his premier league cv. I don't rate the Norwegian league, I wouldn't want us to sign the best manager from the Greek league either for instance.

 

[Giggsy13]

We haven’t had a clean sheet at home in 8 games. Granted that some of those games were after the suspended match but having now spent over £150 million on our back 4, you’d expect our defending and goals conceded not to be the problem.

 

[Shiva87]

Think you may have misconstrued what I'm saying here. I was talking about the fact that we do come back well from poor results and when he's seemingly under huge pressure, but it happens often. And a poor result isn't necessarily a loss. I was saying it's a good trait to have (much like coming from behind in games), but when it happens fairly often perhaps there's a problem there that is being papered over. Basically, now and then it's great. But when it starts to become a "thing" as it has done under Ole, perhaps that should be the issue that is focused on.

And I agree with what you're saying about performances. You see the result and think it's all good. But watching them you know there's something not right.

Statistically, it happened to us less often than it happened to Liverpool last season, and we have lost less games than City over the last 2 seasons in the PL.

So perhaps you have some fan's bias!

 

[largelyworried]

We haven’t had a clean sheet at home in 8 games. Granted that some of those games were after the suspended match but having now spent over £150 million on our back 4, you’d expect our defending and goals conceded not to be the problem.

Especially when you look at the form of the players. Shaw is not quite at his peak but is still excellent. Varane oozes class. AWB's problem is that he's too defensive. DDG is in his best form for years. Only Maguire is bang out of form, but that shouldn't be enough for a defense this leaky.

 

[edgecutter]

If Poch, Nagelsmann etc. had taken over when Ole did, cleared the deadwood, assembled a fantastic squad, finished 3rd, then 2nd, and then had a disjointed start to the season after introducing 3 new world class players to the squad, would fans be calling for their head? No. "Give him time" "Look at the progress and the players he's signed" would be the most common trend.

Show Ole the same respect.

Nonsense, if they had this squad and played the same football I would also be calling for their head. This team is too good to keep playing this poorly.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Statistically, it happened to us less often than it happened to Liverpool last season, and we have lost less games than City over the last 2 seasons in the PL.

So perhaps you have some fan's bias!

United ranked 1st last season for the number of points won from losing positions.

 

[Robbie Boy]

It's not about Ole in or Ole out. It's about whether he can take us to the next stage. I struggle to see it. He has done a very good job till now and if people don't see it then they are just filled with agenda but now it's about taking it to the next level. We need to mount a proper title challenge. Losing to villa doesn't help and what's more worrying is how poor we have looked this season. We have to play better brand of football if we are to win. Right now we look like a team who play good football in moments.

The thing is, by the end of his tenure, neither the 'in' or 'out' crowd will have been right about him. He hasn't really achieved what some said he would, nor has he been as bad as some said he would be. There's extreme hyperbole on both ends though, so I expect some wild exaggerations from both sides, to try convince the world that they were right all along.

I, for one, hold my hands up and admit I was previously wrong about him. He's achieved more than I thought he was capable of, and I think he's proven that he can go on to manage at a decent level. This level is clearly beyond him though, imo. I admit that I came into this season with high expectations, and a real sense of positivity, but the gloss has been taken off. The results are one thing, but it's our performances that are really inspiring little hope for me. Nearly 3 years into his reign, we don't look like a particularly good footballing side, despite heavy investment. It's really, really not good enough. The excuses won't fly anymore, as there was a general consensus that we had to challenge this season. While we may still do that, the early signs don't look promising. The league is as tough as it's ever been, and we have the squad to compete, so failure now has to lie at the managers door. I haven't lost all hope just yet, but I am certainly veering more towards a negative outlook.

When Ole goes, I will certainly be grateful for some of the work he's done here. Some of the 'cultural reset' stuff is exaggerated, but the general premise of it rings through. We needed to steady a very rocky ship, and he done that. I don't think he ever should have gotten the full time gig, but he did, and the good he done has to be acknowledged. The bad though, just can't be glossed over by repeatedly saying 'semi finals', '2nd place', and 'cultutal reset'. While all those merit praise, there's context behind all of them that warrant deeper discussions. Just as much as saying he has no 'patterns of play' is exaggerated, it's something that has a premise behind it and warrants discussion, even though it makes some froth at the mouth. Overall, he's done ok in my opinion, but not much more than that. I feel now though with the place we are in, it would probably be best to think about handing the reins over to someone else. It'll be a total overhaul of the coaching staff, and not just Ole though.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

His priority target from last summer after spending 75m on him is on the bench. Even lingard gets on in front him. Plays fred and mc Tom all the time forcing Pogba to a position where he already has to many players waiting to play.
When he does play Sancho it's also on the left. What's he going to do when Rashford comes back. Its no wonder we've got no patterns of play. Sancho should have already been drilled on the right getting balls into Ronaldo and making up for AWB's lack of skills in attack.

 

[crossy1686]

Other not so well known managers have also reached the champions league semis, that wasn't the reason Bayern wanted him.
What exactly has Ole achieved to be signed as manager of possibly the biggest club on the planet then?

Managers that do well in the CL or EL always end up moving to a bigger team. See Mourinho, Pochettino, Emery, Juande Ramos, Villas-Boas etc.

A manager like Jardim has always played good football, to the point he was a CAF darling a few years back but he never got a big move despite winning the French league and getting to a semi final of the CL. It’s not a perfect science but in regards to Bayern, their MO is to weaken their rivals so they can’t compete.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

His priority target from last summer after spending 75m on him is on the bench. Even lingard gets on before him. Plays fred and mc Tom all the time forcing Pogba to a position where he already has to many players waiting to play. When he does play Sancho it's also
on the left. What's he going to do when Rashford comes back. Its no wonder we've got no patterns of play. Sancho should have already be drilled on the right getting balls into Ronaldo and making up for AWB's lack of skills in attack.

Think everybody was excited with the prospect of Sancho playing in front of AWB as that was where we desperately needed somebody. His handing of him is very strange. Although I have said somewhere else that even if he shoved him on the right, I think he needs more freedom that just being played as a rigid right/left winger.

 

[Red Star One]

If Poch, Nagelsmann etc. had taken over when Ole did, cleared the deadwood, assembled a fantastic squad, finished 3rd, then 2nd, and then had a disjointed start to the season after introducing 3 new world class players to the squad, would fans be calling for their head? No. "Give him time" "Look at the progress and the players he's signed" would be the most common trend.

Show Ole the same respect.

To defend Ole with such a hypothetical situation is just nonsense

 

[Ayoba]

The knives are definitely out, fans are getting frustrated, media is now on his back too. Even his Gary Neville has spoken about it.

I think if we limp out of the CL group stages again that might be the final nail in the coffin!

 

[romufc]

The knives are definitely out, fans are getting frustrated, media is now on his back too. Even his Gary Neville has spoken about it.

I think if we limp out of the CL group stages again that might be the final nail in the coffin!

Dont be surprised if he is still here at the end of the season and we are out of Europe and battling to get into the top 4.

There is no evidence that in Europe he can do anything. Yes a one off game, he can win he has shown it but when it actually matters, Ole will not win the game.

Over his time here, how many crucial games has he won, not the ones to save his job but ones to get United something.

Crashed out the CL because we couldn't manage to get a point from 2 games, lost to Villareal in the final, which shows to me that there is a very slim chance we make it out of this CL group.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Scenarios in which I can see him keep his job

-Win either PL or CL

-Win FA Cup and make top 4 in the league

-Win nothing but make top 4 in the league and a round of 8 or better in CL

Everything else is probably a sack, although he might survive with top 4 +CL round of 16

 

[YeahYeah]

I mean why make this complicated. You have the Chelsea example as a perfect blueprint, almost the exact same situation.
Lampard was a club legend, not good enough as a manager. World class manager takes over, you know the rest. It didnt take 5 years, it took 5 matches.

Conte is the only one who is really available, doubt Zidane is so yeah just go with Conte.
Its not exactly rocket science.

 

[Kaos]

Just going to post a incohesive rant here.

We aren't winning anything with Ole - I've had that suspicion since last season when I felt his inadequacies were fully exposed, and its only been cemented this season. There was a brief period in the summer on the back of our hollywood signings and opening Leeds fixture where I felt we might finally ascend to that next level, but the stark reality has set in for me again on the back of recent results. At this point I don't see how anyone could see him being the manager that guides us to winning the biggest prizes in club football. I'm seeing a lot of hopeful "I hope he turns it around" posts but all of us have been hoping for a while now and its the same story. We're sentimental FC and we're essentially trying to shoehorn in an objectively unqualified coach who at this point is clearly out of his depth and who wouldn't get a sniff any any top club in the world.

Now I I can give him credit for stabilising the club and spearheading what's been a very good rebuild, but that's what he was initially brought in to do. To steady the ship and instill a bit of positivity back into the club while we transition into the next, qualified manager. Except we've seemingly done away with the recruiting qualified coach step, and have decided the prolong the 'good vibes rebuild fc' phase indefinitely. The fact we've rewarded him with a three year contract for winning the square root of feck all, and knowing that no big club will try and prize him away from us makes it all the more insane. This is all the more frustrating considering we now have a squad we can consider to be genuine contenders - a spine of Varane, Shaw, Pogba, Fernandes and a few years of Cristiano Ronaldo at his late stage prime which looks like it might be wasted trying to make a poor coach happen.

Then there's this whole sentiment of "lets see how he does by the end of the season" - why? At that point it might be too late and enough damage might have been done. We will likely lose Pogba, players like Fernandes might decide they'd try playing in Spain, and our signings like Sancho and VDB might have their confidence completely shot by then. Not to mention Ronaldo will be another step closer to retirement or deciding he wants his last dance at Sporting. If we can admit to the sobering realisation that Ole isn't the man, then why dither until we do the inevitable of sacking him at some point. Why not take a leaf out of Chelsea's ruthless book and fix the problem early and reap the rewards like they've done. Our sentimentality is costing this club and I feel that if we persist with our current course we'll be facing yet another rebuild phase again soon on the back of no success. At this point I've become bitter and cynical at the situation to the extent I'm hoping players like Ronaldo kick up a fuss and force the board's hands to replace him with someone competent. I know it sounds like a horrible and toxic sentiment to have regarding a genuine club legend, but I don't see what else we could do to actually act like a serious competitive club, and not just a "top 4 vibes FC wouldya look at our sponsors!" brand.

 

[AshRK]

The thing is, by the end of his tenure, neither the 'in' or 'out' crowd will have been right about him. He hasn't really achieved what some said he would, nor has he been as bad as some said he would be. There's extreme hyperbole on both ends though, so I expect some wild exaggerations from both sides, to try convince the world that were right all along.

I, for one, hold my hands up and admit I was previously wrong about him. He's achieved more than I thought he was capable of, and I think he's proven that he can go on to manage at a decent level. This level is clearly beyond him though, imo. I admit that I came into this season with high expectations, and a real sense of positivity, but the gloss has been taken off. The results are one thing, but it's our performances that are really inspiring little hope for me. Nearly 3 years into his reign, we don't look like a particularly good footballing side, despite heavy investment. It's really, really not good enough. The excuses won't fly anymore, as there was a general consensus that we had to challenge this season. While we may still do that, the early signs don't look promising. The league is as tough as it's ever been, and we have the squad to compete, so failure now has to lie at the managers door. I haven't lost all hope just yet, but I am certainly veering more towards a negative outlook.

When Ole goes, I will certainly be grateful for some of the work he's done here. Some of the 'cultural reset' stuff is exaggerated, but the general premise of it rings through. We needed to steady a very rocky ship, and he done that. I don't think he ever should have gotten the full time gig, but he did, and the good he done has to be acknowledged. The bad though, just can't be glossed over by repeatedly saying 'semi finals', '2nd place', and 'cultutal reset'. While all those merit praise, there's context behind all of them that warrant deeper discussions. Just as much as saying he has no 'patterns of play' is exaggerated, it's something that has a premise behind it and warrants discussion, even though it makes some froth at the mouth. Overall, he's done ok in my opinion, but not much more than that. I feel now though with the place we are in, it would probably be best to think about handing the reigns over to someone else. It'll be a total overhaul of the coaching staff, and not just Ole though.

I share the same sentiment. We have done well so far but the next step is where we are struggling. I look at our current situation and it reminds me a lot of Arsenal's Wenger from 2009 to 2016. Nearly side but not good enough to win a major trophy.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Just going to post a incohesive rant here.

We aren't winning anything with Ole - I've had that suspicion since last season when I felt his inadequacies were fully exposed, and its only been cemented this season. There was a brief period in the summer on the back of our hollywood signings and opening Leeds fixture where I felt we might finally ascend to that next level, but the stark reality has set in for me again on the back of recent results. At this point I don't see how anyone could see him being the manager that guides us to winning the biggest prizes in club football. I'm seeing a lot of hopeful "I hope he turns it around" posts but all of us have been hoping for a while now and its the same story. We're sentimental FC and we're essentially trying to shoehorn in an objectively unqualified coach who at this point is clearly out of his depth and who wouldn't get a sniff any any top club in the world.

Now I I can give him credit for stabilising the club and spearheading what's been a very good rebuild, but that's what he was initially brought in to do. To steady the ship and instill a bit of positivity back into the club while we transition into the next, qualified manager. Except we've seemingly done away with the recruiting qualified coach step, and have decided the prolong the 'good vibes rebuild fc' phase indefinitely. The fact we've rewarded him with a three year contract for winning the square root of feck all, and knowing that no big club will try and prize him away from us makes it all the more insane. This is all the more frustrating considering we now have a squad we can consider to be genuine contenders - a spine of Varane, Shaw, Pogba, Fernandes and a few years of Cristiano Ronaldo at his late stage prime which looks like it might be wasted trying to make a poor coach happen.

Then there's this whole sentiment of "lets see how he does by the end of the season" - why? At that point it might be too late and enough damage might have been done. We will likely lose Pogba, players like Fernandes might decide they'd try playing in Spain, and our signings like Sancho and VDB might have their confidence completely shot by then. Not to mention Ronaldo will be another step closer to retirement or deciding he wants his last dance at Sporting. If we can admit to the sobering realisation that Ole isn't the man, then why dither until we do the inevitable of sacking him at some point. Why not take a leaf out of Chelsea's ruthless book and fix the problem early and reap the rewards like they've done. Our sentimentality is costing this club and I feel that if we persist with our current course we'll be facing yet another rebuild phase again soon on the back of no success. At this point I've become bitter and cynical at the situation to the extent I'm hoping players like Ronaldo kick up a fuss and force the board's hands to replace him with someone competent. I know it sounds like a horrible and toxic sentiment to have regarding a genuine club legend, but I don't see what else we could do to actually act like a serious competitive club, and not just a "top 4 vibes FC wouldya look at our sponsors!" brand.

Great post. Agree with all of this.

 

[NK86]

If Poch, Nagelsmann etc. had taken over when Ole did, cleared the deadwood, assembled a fantastic squad, finished 3rd, then 2nd, and then had a disjointed start to the season after introducing 3 new world class players to the squad, would fans be calling for their head? No. "Give him time" "Look at the progress and the players he's signed" would be the most common trend.

Show Ole the same respect.

Do you remember how we got third in Ole's first full season or your memory checks out everything else and only remembers us getting third. Leicester practically imploded and Bruno became the Talisman from the first match.
Ole would have been nowhere near the top 4 without either of those scenarios.
The second place last season was when Liverpool went through a run of awful form and Chelsea had Lampard for half a season.

You really think we will see a repeat of those scenarios this season? A better way to realize our progress is our points tally. I am pretty certain our tally from last season would not get top 3 and our performances regularly last season and this have shown that we don't play consistent or coherent enough to actually be better than that.
A group of really talented individuals can only take you so far in a team game.

 

[Ayoba]

I don't know about you guys but I feel really dejected now. So much optimism and hope at the start of the season, with the players we signed this summer, now all that euphoria is gone!

I loathe the fact that we're all discussing when our manager will leave, or whether he's good enough, or who will replace him. Because all of that means it just isnt working and the last thing we can afford to do is have ANOTHER wasted season! I just don't know where we go from here, I cannot stand another season in the Europa league, or cheering on city to win the league over liverpool.

 

[FootyGirl88]