Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

It feels like most fans feels it's time to move on. He was my favourite United player but he's not good enough. We never control matches, we rarely win any match comfortably. My biggest issue with Ole and the coaching staff is our set-pieces. They are infuriating, they can affect 15 or 20 points a season. Again we concede from a corner yesterday. We never seem to score from corners. We have Ronaldo, Maguire, Varane, McTominay etc. What are they doing in training?

 

[AltiUn]

I doubt the Glazers will fire him so soon. Probably not even if we don't make top 4 (which we most likely will)

I think they will to be honest, if he fails to get out of the CL group for a second consecutive year then he'll have proven beyond doubt that he's not a CL level manager and that's something I think everyone at the club knows is unnacceptable.

 

[lex talionis]

I think they will to be honest, if he fails to get out of the CL group for a second consecutive year then he'll have proven beyond doubt that he's not a CL level manager and that's something I think everyone at the club knows is unnacceptable.

Don’t forget about top four, or winning the EL. Either will be enough for the Glazers to keep Ole for another season.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Funny, I've spent some time today reading opinions (from United fans) on other parts of the internet. What I've learned is that, everywhere is generally as divided as this place with the terminology 'inners' and 'outers' being used. So, it's not some big Caf conspiracy after all, and it turns out, a-lot of people want him out.

 

[DixieDean]

Funny, I've spent some time today reading opinions (from United fans) on other parts of the internet. What I've learned is that, everywhere is generally as divided as this place with the terminology 'inners' and 'outers' being used. So, it's not some big Caf conspiracy after all, and it turns out, a-lot of people want him out.

I'm amazed it's divided. Seems only one way to go to me.

 

[NZT-One]

I love myth how he is attacking manager which is based only by the fact that he said that in his first interview. But in reality he is more defensive than Jose.
We have top defence. We bought to him world class attack in which he has 6 attackers. But he still plays with Fred and Mct and puts Pogba on the wing. And it is not against City or Liverpool; it is against midtable clubs. On top of that, he is fine with waiting on our half, leaving the ball to opposition and waiting on counter attacks.
Guy is happy with point on most away games ( against WH his subs were to secure point, not to go for a win). Meanwhile, Pool, Chelsea and City don't adapt. They play attacking against every opposition.

If we get Zidane or Conte or any decent manager (which we will not), i bet that they would not play with two dmc. They would use best what this squad have

Oh come on, no need to compare two playstyles on a level of "what is more offensive". You can play 3-4-3 as a low block or as high pressing machine. I think, it should be obvious that Ole isn't as focussed on defense as Mourinho was (score, defend for the rest of the time). Ole doesn't do that, he encourages our players to attack, the issue is, that seemingly he doesn't really prepare them how to do it in a way, that other teams cannot foresee and prepare against.

I just isn't as easy as "I put another player good in attack" on the pitch and we get offensive all of a sudden. How often have we seen us suck the living cra* with Pogba in the middle. I understand what you are trying to do: I agree, Ole isn't a coach of freeflowing attacking football as some are trying to depict it. But fielding a double pivot doesn't transform him into Mourinho Mk II.

This is a bit disingenuous since few of the issues we have, in terms of defensive shape, stem from his desire to stretch the pitch with as many as 6 players in the attacking third. Mourinho-ball was never about that. His motto is "attack with as few players as possible and if that doesn't work, have certain players to join the attack from the second lines". The last time he managed to pull a rabbit out of the hat like that and showcase his "tactical brilliance" was back in 2015, when he used to overload the left side and then have Ivanovic joining in the attack from RB. All things considered, Solkjaer is far more courageous than Mourinho with the general positioning of his players when United attack in full stretch.

But, this is about the how. If you're talking about what we are trying to achieve on the pitch, the truth is that not much has changed. We still want to be as direct as possible and instruct the forward and the wingers to always look to exploit the spaces in-behind the moment we clear the ball in our third. We still don't perceive possession plays as a way to establish control, but only as a means to inviting press and, subsequently, opening up spaces behind the defence. And we still overload one side to switch play as the best way to move the ball forward. In this sense, little has changed, and it comes as no surprise that some problems in our game from Jose's time persist today. The forwards make the early runs and they create pockets of space between the lines, but nobody moves in to occupy them. The lack of any meaningful possession game often kills all rhythm and tempo. Finally, switching sides when there's absolutely zero vertical movement off the ball is nothing more than an exercise in futility.

Something similar is happening with the midfield. People accuse Solsljaer of cowardly tactics, when the simple fact that whoever we pair in there are asked to perform beyond their capabilities is clearly what's at fault. It's true that Mc Fred were rubbish yesterday, but there's a reason they are considered our best choices in the centre of the park. The area of responsibility is huge. And when we're on the ball, our hastiness to be direct and the lack of involvement from the attackers in the build-up often creates a frustrating sight: When our midfielders are on the ball, their teammates move away from them (or stand still in advanced positions) instead of making themselves available. It's not working and would not be working even with Kroos/Modric in their place.

Speaking of Kroos/Modric, let's look at how Zidane became a success in Madrid. He sacrificed an attacking midfielder to force Casemiro down the throats of a fanbase who only want to see their team play with style. And when Bale was underperforming, he took him off in favour of a midfielder (Isco) and reverted to a diamond. Hardly the most attacking of changes, but they allowed Real Madrid to become a more balanced side.

And trust me, Conte would never dare to leave the central channels unprotected. He would think of playing Pogba in there, but only if he knew that the odds would be in his favour in the long run. Just as Matic/Kante were his go-to pair at Chelsea, but he would also deploy Fabregas as a deep-lying play-maker quite often because he was fine with route-one football too. But he did all that with Costa leading the line: A forward tailor-made for this type of football, able to play with his back to goal, wrestle with defenders, keep the ball and chase it like a rabid dog. Not with Tony freaking Martial on 250 thousand quid p/w or with the 37 yo version of Ronaldo. Also, unlike Mourinho, with the patience to help Lukaku improve at Inter.

Going back to Solskjaer, he seems to have backed himself into a corner. He has created a top-heavy side with many forwards who like to rely on instinct and contribute very little in other areas. Thus, the overreliance on Bruno to orchestrate the attack on his own. Then, Solskajaer understands that we have to take better care of the ball (remember him and Mckenna gesturing Bruno and co. to slow down and pass the ball around?). But Matic can't run any more, VdB is not fit for a physical battle and Pogba is a defensive liability... Well, managers are being paid to find solutions, not to ask for transfers all the time. Change the set-up: Matic is the only holding-midfielder you have, so make his area of responsibility smaller. Beek's short-passing can be crisp, so create triangles in the midfield. Pogba has the best range of passing in the whole squad, so make the long diagonal and other options available to him to make up for his mistakes at the back. But when we come down to brass tacks, in most cases, this means that the most crucial player on the pitch must either find a new role or be dropped.

It's not a matter of being defensive. It's a matter of still having no balance in our game. And only good balance can bring consistency. If we want to move away from Fred/McT, we should not replace either one with a fancy ball-playing midfielder. The rest 8 outfield players, especially the 4 ahead of them, have to work much more on the pitch. I still remember when people were calling Lampard crazy for deploying Jorginho in front of the defence. But Jorginho's play-making from deep is world-class. Did Tuchel sign a workhorse to fix the midfield? No, he changed the set-up to provide protection to the Italian and he also coached Chelsea's defensive transition so that their lines don't look like unravelling knitwear when they are getting back to shape.

This is what Solskjaer needs to prioritize because this is where he's failing tactically.

Spot on, very good post. Thanks for taking the time. A few of your points have also been discussed in the awfully coached thread.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I'm amazed it's divided. Seems only one way to go to me.

Divided, but a larger proportion want him out.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

It does feel like we’re reaching the end of the road with Ole. He’s down so much right for this club and we should always look kindly back on him, but there really isn’t any excuse for the level of performances so far with the amount of talent.
The big fear is bringing someone on who can have the Tuchel like effect. Is there anyone even available who guarantees that? Zidane? What was his relationship like with Ronaldo and Varane?

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

All we can reasonably ask of Ole at this point is to hold players accountable. What I mean by that is that as a player while you’re allowed a single poor performance that you will be sent to the bench if you put in multiple poor performances.

Unacceptable that poor performers be allowed to continue performing poorly.

Exactly this, no matter how poor our CMs perform, week after week it appears the same player(s) are nailed on to start.

It’s got to the stage were Ole refuses to change it as he thinks it’ll be an acknowledgement that he was wrong before.

 

[AltiUn]

Don’t forget about top four, or winning the EL. Either will be enough for the Glazers to keep Ole for another season.

I don't think he'll be given that opportunity if he drops out of the CL group, personally.

 

[Jaxa]

I remember watching Chelsea with Lampard in charge having all that talent and underperforming and thinking please don’t sack him because if they get a good manager we’re all screwed,

Rival fans must all be thinking exactly the same watching us now, Ronaldo, Varane, Bruno, Sancho, Cavani, Greenwood, Pogba and to see these players put in performances like they have been doing recently is criminal, we don’t look like a team that comes out with a plan, knowing exactly what we need to do, it’s just all so extremely casual and amateurish and I’m not putting that on the players, that’s down to the coaches and the preparation that’s happening Mon-Fri.

Ole hasn’t failed, he’s done exactly what was needed at this club, a culture reset, to make us like this team again and bring a bit of happiness back, he’s also rejuvenated this team and brought through some real quality to the starting 11 however I personally don’t think he nor his coaching staff have the tactical knowledge or experience to lead such a team of highly talented footballers to win the biggest trophies in football and that’s exactly what our next step is and with that in mind we really need a manager and set of coaches who know exactly how to do that,

It’s time to move on from this romantic notion of an ex United legend leading us to glory

 

[Idxomer]

I'm amazed it's divided. Seems only one way to go to me.

Ole not being good enough has been one of the most obvious things in football the last few years.

If United fans could separate the player who scored in 99 from the average manager he's today, they would've all reached the same conclusion a long time ago.

 

[lex talionis]

I don't think he'll be given that opportunity if he drops out of the CL group, personally.

It’s anyone’s guess of course but I would be surprised if the Glazers sacked Ole before the math has us out of the CL next season. The opportunity to have made a brave decision was right after the defeat to Villarreal.

 

[Andycoleno9]

List them and how and where they would lead us to major trophies short term and long term

What long term? What is that? No club in the fecking world don't do that. At least top ones. It is bs which we invented alongside with "rebuilding". Managers come and go. They are in club while they deliver results and that is it. Then comes another. And another.

What list? There are dozens and dozens managers out there. Only few are not available. You can hire a manager who is under contract with another club, you know that? You don't need to look only those out of job. And while we are at it; Zidane and Conte are free. And they would jump to manage us. Do we even need to compare them with failed Cardiff manager? Both would be much better than Ole for sure.

 

[TheMitz]

Ole has done a brilliant job in stabilising the club, he brought the smiles back to OT because he's one of us. Absolute legend at the club.
Now he's got a squad capable of winning things the pressure is on him as a manager. Ronaldo, Varane, Cavani even Pogba are proven winners who have played for some of the best coaches in the world. How long before they start questioning the managers ability? Likewise Bruno is a winner he won't settle for playing for an underachieving team and manager.
Let's face it with Ole in charge we are never going to overtake the likes of City, Liverpool or Chelsea.

He has taken us as far as he can now, he's built a very good squad, got the youth system working but we now need someone to take us to the next level, which it doesn't look like he is capable of.

The problem is we are owned and run by money men, who measure success by how much money the club is making, they are not football people. So Ole will be safe as long as he hits the top 4.
Unfortunately some of our players and fans won't settle for that, which inevitably is going to lead to a lot of dissent and ultimately players looking to leave.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Ole was brought in to steady the ship. He did that brilliantly. But not only did he steady the ship, he also took the next few steps by remoulding the squad and resetting the culture. We're now in the strongest state we've been in for about a decade (even more so than in SAF's last couple of seasons).

Solksjaer deserves huge credit for cleaning up the mess left by Moyes, LvG and Mourinho. United is now full of hungry, youthful talent that's ready to take the next step.

The problem is that Ole's currently experiencing the same problem that every football manager eventually experiences: shelf life.

The average Premier League manager only stays in their job for 2 years 8 weeks and 3 days. That's not because they suddenly lose their football knowledge all of a sudden. It's because squads of players need frequent changes in order to keep things fresh and moving forward. Football isn't like any other industry in that respect. Even hipster favourites like Klopp, Tuchel, Jose, Pochettino and Conte have lost their edge at some point. Then they moved on and found it somewhere else. That's the nature of the game.

Ole outers have been wrong about him for 3 years. But like a broken clock, I think it's almost that time when they might be right. The team is underperforming compared to last season (despite superior players), which suggests that the something is going stale. If it's the same by Christmas, it'll be time to move him upstairs and bring in a different head coach.

Who has wanted Ole out for 3 years? Some serious straw man there. So moving aside from the argument you pose that has never existed what has he done to ‘move him upstairs’, I don’t read as much media as I used to but is he now a sought after DoF in world football? We’ve already got people in place there - if he fails as manager, sentimentality shouldn’t place him in another department.

I usually pass posts like yours by but what a load of tripe, 4 of the 5 ‘hipster’ managers you mention are Tuchel, Klopp, Pep & fecking Conte. Like their football, like them in interviews or not these managers leave OgS in their wake, oh sorry Ole sits back & hits Peps teams on the counter a few times a season only to spend his entire United tenure struggling to beat Villa, Palace, Burnley at home. The Poch fanatics were a special case but your post is running them close.

To say the length of his tenure/Shelf Life is the issue is another laughable piece of mental gymnastics. The ‘hipsters’ who lost their edge at previous stops, at least achieved something before doing so [I’ve already dismissed Poch & Tuchel has proven himself rather aptly in less than a year at Chelsea], the true issue here is posters like yourself who compare OgS to his contemporaries based on nothing tangible. OgS hasn’t ‘lost his edge’, he’s still struggling to prove he has one. He may yet turn it round, I happen to think this squad could do something special if set up correctly but at some point the excuses have to stop, he simply must deliver.

Have slept a bit and calmed down, but still, that match yesterday was far from good enough and those are the kind of matches we need to win comfortably if we are going to seriously challenge for the league. I've backed him so far and i stand by that. Hes lifted the club from the toxic mess that Jose left behind and as even his most fervent critics point out: We have a very good squad now. He deserves credit for that.

So even if you dont rate him, hes still a United legend and he has still (in my eyes at least) done a pretty good job up until this point. Name calling and abuse makes you look like an entitled twat imo. There are fewer jobs in the world with the amount of pressure like the manager of United, so have some respect.

That being said, the last couple of games have been far from good enough and this season is make or break for him in my eyes. Going forward this season there are a few key points regarding his job that i want to adress

• He absoloutely MUST qualify from that CL group. Its a fairly easy group so not getting past that would be a huge black mark on his CV. But most of all, seing Varane and Ronaldo play in the fecking EL would make me cringe so hard i might die
• He MUST make a serious league challenge. That means being within striking distance of the league leaders around March-April
• He MUST improve his points haul in the league. This one should be fairly easy

Regarding our football, there are also a couple of things i want to adress

• He has to stop playing McFred in the double pivot. Honestly i dont think they are as bad as some people make them out to be and particularly Fred is quite good at breaking up play. The two of them together though are incredibly detrimental to the way Ole wants us to play. If you want to build from the back, you 100% need CM's who are good at the "pass and move" aspect of midfield play and those two are not it. One of Pogba or VdB has to play there to make the transition from defense to attack go a bit smoother. Some people will say "he needs a CM", but hes had plenty of time to sort that out now. Hes made his bed regarding that and hes been backed well now
• The way we played vs Villa is was simply unacceptable. Not because we lost at home, but because we were careless, sloppy and greedy and we did not look like a team that wanted to win the league.
  • I dont mind him telling the players to take a shot as i dont want to see LvG football where we try to pass the ball into the goal, but if you can pass to a teammate who has a better chance of scoring than you, you fecking pass that ball.
  • The amount of unforced errors we made the last couple of games is also something he needs to sort out ASAP. if we keep fecking up simple 10 yard passes, then either the players are not focused enough or we really need to do passing drills in training. Either way, its his responsibility to sort them out
  • Villa, despite not having the talent we have, more than matched us because they were first to every second ball and fought tooth and nail to press us, where as we as a team seemed to play in 2nd gear and there were numerous times were i saw us ball watching instead of getting stuck in there. The reason City and Liverpool managed to win the league this past years is not just because they "have patterns". Its because the whole team work their socks off for 90+ minutes for every fecking game. If somehow we think we are too good to put in the maximum amount of effort, we are well and truly fecked and Ole is already done and dusted as manager here

Crucial months ahead with some really big matches coming up. If we qualify from our CL group and are still around the top of the league table, he deserves to see out the season and we will take it from there. If not, i hope he has the sense to bow out himself, because i really dont want to see the OT crowd turn at him and him getting sacked in a nasty manner like with our former managers

In regards to name calling, do you think posters in the match day threads/performance threads are ‘entitled twats’ when certain players get rounded on regardless of performances or is it only OgS who should be immune to critique?

 

[crossy1686]

What long term? What is that? No club in the fecking world don't do that. At least top ones. It is bs which we invented alongside with "rebuilding". Managers come and go. They are in club while they deliver results and that is it. Then comes another. And another.

What list? There are dozens and dozens managers out there. Only few are not available. You can hire a manager who is under contract with another club, you know that? You don't need to look only those out of job. And while we are at it; Zidane and Conte are free. And they would jump to manage us. Do we even need to compare them with failed Cardiff manager? Both would be much better than Ole for sure.

Long term is more than 3 seasons. Can you not see that if someone isn't keeping an eye on the direction of the club long term that things will run to shit? I'm not saying it has to be the manager but our complete lack of a DOF (still) means we don't have any continuity between what each manager wants from a squad.

We shouldn't even be considering Conte or Zidane, both wouldn't be the right fit for us and any short term gain we may have next season will put us back tenfold in a couple of seasons when we have to pay the piper. If you also think Poch, Nagelsmann, Tuchel, Klopp or whomever else is going to walk out of their current contracts to join our shit show, you're living on a different planet.

So outside of Conte or Zidane, who would be unmitigated disasters here, who is available tomorrow to come in and fix this shit? It's shit but we stand our best chance of making the correct decision, that will affect us for the next 2 to 3 seasons at least, at the end of this current season.

 

[Shiva87]

Divided, but a larger proportion want him out.

Not really. Its divided but a larger proportion think that he is done enough to see where it goes this season!

A smaller (but more vocal portion) think he needs to go.

Most fans I speak to in person are happy with what he has done, and see this season as his opportunity to show how far he can go. Anything less than a title challenge won't do.

If I have to put a number in it, only 2-3 in 10 think he needs to go and isn't good enough.

BTW - most acknowledge that he is not at the level of a Pep or a Klopp in terms of a defined playing style. But that doesn't mean he can't win trophies for United.

 

[Skills]

I'm amazed it's divided. Seems only one way to go to me.

It's always going to be divided at United. Irrespective of how bad a manager is doing. We could be relegated into League 1 and there'll still be 38,000 shouting "HE NEEDS TIME"

 

[Chairman Steve]

The same problems are present even when he’s added Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho into the team. It really isn’t a good sign. I never feel totally comfortable watching an OGS match. Every match it feels like there’s a slow start and then individual brilliance pulls us through. I fear OGS’ endgame is have world class players throughout the XI and ‘to hell with actual tactics, the lads will figure it out themselves whether it’s Rashy, Ronnie, Edi, Greeny, Scotty, Varaney etc getting the goal’

I will hand it to OGS that has done a good job handling the transition and getting the right players in, but I don’t think he’s taking us where we should be with that squad. Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho as new players is serious fecking firepower.

Go ask fans of the 19 teams in the league if they’d take OGS on as their manager. I’m fairly sure you’d get 19 ‘No’s. Go ask our European super club peers that and they’d probably laugh their ass off. I have a level-headed Liverpool mate who is amazed at how he’s gone on as long as he has and genuinely thinks he’s the luckiest manager he’s ever seen at this level.

Quite simply he has to go on another one of those winning runs as an almost underdog and on the verge of being sacked again. That has to start against Villarreal. A team we have never beaten and barely scored against.

 

[Shark]

It’s anyone’s guess of course but I would be surprised if the Glazers sacked Ole before the math has us out of the CL next season. The opportunity to have made a brave decision was right after the defeat to Villarreal.

It's not going to be fully up to the Glazers. If United go back down to the Europa I can see our biggest players turning. There's only so long they'll tag along before they realise their season is going down the toilet.

 

[mav_9me]

I assume that the coaches watch back matches - a lot. And therefore, at some stage in Ole's tenure he must have noticed that teams 'funnel' us into the right hand side of our half with a press - and reap huge dividends. It was Villa's whole gameplan in the first half yesterday. And it worked a treat.

Push back the CB (Lindelof previously, Varane now - both of whom are reasonable on the ball) but leave the out to AWB. Also let Fred run across to AWB, remain kind of close but make it clear those two are the 'open' players. Then watch them either put it out for a throw, or eventually try to hoof it down the line to no one. Or if you're really lucky, Fred will try to turn - and this is the winning ticket - you can then nip it off him and you're for a chance.

Every well coached team does this to us, and have done it to us for the best part of 3 seasons.

So - how has our multi-million dollar coaching staff responded? Have we told Bruno to come back and actually be part of midfield in those situations? Have we coached Mason to fake coming forward, then double back and try to run in behind down the wing? Have we told De Gea to maybe not play that ball? Or now that our rather huge left 'winger' Paul Pogba up against a tiny full back, are we using the direct option?

Nope, we're doing the same thing. Every match. That's what is killing me. He's not improving at all.

Great post imo. Now if you can see surely they can see it too? I don't know which is worse, them not doing anything about it so far or maybe them not noticing it.

 

[Shark]

Not really. Its divided but a larger proportion think that he is done enough to see where it goes this
BTW - most acknowledge that he is not at the level of a Pep or a Klopp in terms of a defined playing style. But that doesn't mean he can't win trophies for United.

It kind of does, because they're the managers actually winning the trophies aren't they? It's like saying Anthony Martial can win a ballon d'or even though Halland and Mbappe are around.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Not really. Its divided but a larger proportion think that he is done enough to see where it goes this season!

A smaller (but more vocal portion) think he needs to go.

Most fans I speak to in person are happy with what he has done, and see this season as his opportunity to show how far he can go. Anything less than a title challenge won't do.

If I have to put a number in it, only 2-3 in 10 think he needs to go and isn't good enough.

BTW - most acknowledge that he is not at the level of a Pep or a Klopp in terms of a defined playing style. But that doesn't mean he can't win trophies for United.

Funny how we interpret things differently. From my reading, it seemed more wanted him gone. Not vocal, just rational people expressing an opinion. Again it's funny, most people I know lost faith in him a long time ago. They're not screaming for his sacking, but they are rather just in acceptance that we won't challenge for major honours under him. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree unless you offer up some sort of statistical proof.

My wider point anyway, was that there's a certain cohort on here who act like it's only these 'clueless idiots' on the Caf that want him gone. But that's just not the case. The fanbase in general seem very divided about him. Showing him support at OT is what we do to managers. It's good for solidarity and shows a united front. There was a poster on here yesterday who had attended the Villa game, who said that there were plenty questioning Ole as they left OT. There seems to be a false perception that showing public support for the manager, means unequivocal support. There are also certain posters on here who I have suspicions about: I suspect they back Ole vehemently on here as a 'badge of honour' and to try to fit into a certain cohort, but away from the keyboard, they are nowhere near as supportive.

Anyhow, I came into this season with real positivity and expected a good title challenge and CL progression. Of course, it's still absolutely possible that we will achieve both of those criteria. However, right now, my doubts about Ole are coming to the fore again. I could lie and pretend everything is rosy and we're only one point off the top, if that's the kind of agenda driven spin you want to hear. But when you actually contextualize things and look at our performances, the teams we have played vs who are rivals have played, and the spin becomes somewhat less positive.

The worrying thing for me is that our performances this season - bar the Leeds game - haven't really been acceptable, and most sensed we would get beaten soon unless we drastically improved. Low-and-behold, we went and lost to a vastly inferior team at OT, got knocked out of the LC and lost our opening CL game. To me, that's just not good enough. Again, if you like, you can put some kind of spin on it about luck, the amount of shots we had, VAR etc. The thing is, I've heard it all before in relation to Ole. I'm backing him for now, but I'll have no problem admitting he has to go unless we majorly improve. Right now, with this squad, this isn't good enough. It's far too amateurish, and we should be playing far more cohesive football.

 

[Foxbatt]

This is for me why the Europa League was the biggest loss for Solskjaer more than the club. When managers win it gives them credibility.

Let's go into our past. After Sir Matt, we appointed managers who apart from the short periods of Wilf and Frank, The Doc, Big Ron, Moyes and Ole who didn't win anything of importance before they became United managers. However The Doc won The League Cup with Chelsea before. Big Ron won a couple for us and also won two Cups after he left us. Dave Sexton, SAF, Jose and LVG all had won European Trophies before they came to United. So they had a bit of credit when things didn't go their way. Apart from Dave Sexton, all won trophies for us too before they got sacked. Jose won two( 3 according to him with The Charity Shield).
Ole as a manager don't have the credit. Neither is he known to be a top coach who has done it previously unlike most other previous managers at United.

 

[Giggsyking]

did he really say it was a great game for the neutral?

 

[Eriku]

It kind of does, because they're the managers actually winning the trophies aren't they? It's like saying Anthony Martial can win a ballon d'or even though Halland and Mbappe are around.

There’s only one Balon d’Or. Not so for teams.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Long term is more than 3 seasons. Can you not see that if someone isn't keeping an eye on the direction of the club long term that things will run to shit? I'm not saying it has to be the manager but our complete lack of a DOF (still) means we don't have any continuity between what each manager wants from a squad.

We shouldn't even be considering Conte or Zidane, both wouldn't be the right fit for us and any short term gain we may have next season will put us back tenfold in a couple of seasons when we have to pay the piper. If you also think Poch, Nagelsmann, Tuchel, Klopp or whomever else is going to walk out of their current contracts to join our shit show, you're living on a different planet.

So outside of Conte or Zidane, who would be unmitigated disasters here, who is available tomorrow to come in and fix this shit? It's shit but we stand our best chance of making the correct decision, that will affect us for the next 2 to 3 seasons at least, at the end of this current season.

Not a single big club don't look outside current season regarding squad or demand of results. You have CEO who is in charge for money (so nothing to do with coach).
Zidane would not be perfect fit? Wtf? So by your criteria it is only Neville, Giggs, Ole or Keane i guess. Ridiculous.

And in what shit exactly are we now? Finances are healthy and squad is world class. Only shit is that we don't have a manager who is good enough.

 

[UnitedSofa]

This is for me why the Europa League was the biggest loss for Solskjaer more than the club. When managers win it gives them credibility.

No chance, a lot of the Ole Outers wrote off the EL as a worthless cup, a mickey mouse cup. People wouldn’t be satisfied until a UCL/PL

 

[Robbie Boy]

No chance, a lot of the Ole Outers wrote off the EL as a worthless cup, a mickey mouse cup. People wouldn’t be satisfied until a UCL/PL

Funnily enough, the 'inners' done the same after we lost. Had we won, you would be hearing a very different tune. That's how agendas work though eh.

 

[Eriku]

No chance, a lot of the Ole Outers wrote off the EL as a worthless cup, a mickey mouse cup. People wouldn’t be satisfied until a UCL/PL

Funnily enough, the 'inners' done the same after we lost. Had we won, you would be hearing a very different tune. That's how agendas work though eh.

There we go again, the loud fringes are made to represent the whole, when most people are probably way more measured.

This is the kind of talk that makes this shit tribalistic, IMO.

 

[Robbie Boy]

There we go again, the loud fringes are made to represent the whole, when most people are probably way more measured.

This is the kind of talk that makes this shit tribalistic, IMO.

Exactly, it is. I don't know why there's a need for hyperbolic bollox all the time. Sick of reading that kind of shite, so just fight fire with fire.

 

[Eriku]

Exactly, it is. I don't know why there's a need for hyperbolic bollox all the time. Sick of reading that kind of shite, so just fight fire with fire.

I usually wouldn’t bother making the point, but I feel like there’s a weird reasonable haze over the Caf right now relatively speaking

 

[Robbie Boy]

I usually wouldn’t bother making the point, but I feel like there’s a weird reasonable haze over the Caf right now relatively speaking

Tbf, I've read so many nuanced posts since yesterday. But that particular poster has done nothing but wum and trigger people by posting utter nonsense. It's that kind of stuff that will have everyone at each others throats again soon.

Fair is fair; there certainly is a quality control issue, but I feel there are posters from both sides involved in that issue, not just the 'out crowd'. Labelling people clueless, constantly making out anyone using the terminology 'patterns of play' is a weirdo, using straw man arguments and calling any manager not named Ole, a hipster manager, certainly won't bring about reasonable debate. Just as much as posters calling Ole an idiot etc. won't bring about reasonable debate.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Who has wanted Ole out for 3 years? Some serious straw man there. So moving aside from the argument you pose that has never existed what has he done to ‘move him upstairs’, I don’t read as much media as I used to but is he now a sought after DoF in world football? We’ve already got people in place there - if he fails as manager, sentimentality shouldn’t place him in another department.

I usually pass posts like yours by but what a load of tripe, 4 of the 5 ‘hipster’ managers you mention are Tuchel, Klopp, Pep & fecking Conte. Like their football, like them in interviews or not these managers leave OgS in their wake, oh sorry Ole sits back & hits Peps teams on the counter a few times a season only to spend his entire United tenure struggling to beat Villa, Palace, Burnley at home. The Poch fanatics were a special case but your post is running them close.

To say the length of his tenure/Shelf Life is the issue is another laughable piece of mental gymnastics. The ‘hipsters’ who lost their edge at previous stops, at least achieved something before doing so [I’ve already dismissed Poch & Tuchel has proven himself rather aptly in less than a year at Chelsea], the true issue here is posters like yourself who compare OgS to his contemporaries based on nothing tangible. OgS hasn’t ‘lost his edge’, he’s still struggling to prove he has one. He may yet turn it round, I happen to think this squad could do something special if set up correctly but at some point the excuses have to stop, he simply must deliver.

When I hit the unignore button and read that god awful post, I wasn't surprised. Fair play for even giving it a response.

 

[devilish]

Trophies are secondary at this point. The issue here is our tactics who are basically non existent. Its all about defensive football, bypassing the midfield and reliance on individual brilliance/luck. That's not good enough.

 

[Eriku]

Tbf, I've read so many nuanced posts since yesterday. But that particular poster has done nothing but wum and trigger people by posting utter nonsense. It's that kind of stuff that will have everyone at each others throats again soon.

Fair is fair; there certainly is a quality control issue, but I feel there are posters from both sides involved in that issue, not just the 'out crowd'. Labelling people clueless, constantly making out anyone using the terminology 'patterns of play' is a weirdo, using straw man arguments and calling any manager not named Ole, a hipster manager, certainly won't bring about reasonable debate. Just as much as posters calling Ole an idiot etc. won't bring about reasonable debate.

Same here on the reasonable posts of late, and on the low quality posting that’s antagonistic against those who disagree. Anecdotally I feel outers have been doing more to hijack threads and make everything about how Ole sucks, but that’d be from a limited sample and could obviously be wrong, and there’s clearly no shortage among inners either. No real disagreement with anything you’ve said.

 

[hobbers]

No chance, a lot of the Ole Outers wrote off the EL as a worthless cup, a mickey mouse cup. People wouldn’t be satisfied until a UCL/PL

Nobody wrote the EL off as worthless. What a strawman.

The route we took to get to the EL is the mickey mouse part i.e. getting to a cup final via bombing out of the CL group stage. But when you're in a final, be it Europa League or Carabao Cup or whatever, winning it obviously gives much more credibility to the manager than not winning it. And especially not winning it while looking like a deer stuck in headlights for 120 minutes against a vastly inferior squad on paper.

If anyone wrote the EL off as worthless, it was the Ole apologists after the defeat.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Same here on the reasonable posts of late, and on the low quality posting that’s antagonistic against those who disagree. Anecdotally I feel outers have been doing more to hijack threads and make everything about how Ole sucks, but that’d be from a limited sample and could obviously be wrong, and there’s clearly no shortage among inners either. No real disagreement with anything you’ve said.

Oh yeah, I agree about the thread hijacking from the 'out' crew, absolutely.

I just feel there's a-bit of an elephant in the room regarding some nasty individuals on the 'in' side, who seem to get away with some awful posts and constant wumming. But then it seems totally fair game to call out the ones on the 'out' side.

 

[AneRu]

Trophies are secondary at this point. The issue here is our tactics who are basically non existent. Its all about defensive football, bypassing the midfield and reliance on individual brilliance/luck. That's not good enough.

Truth, I am a firm believer that if you play good football consistently then trophies will naturally follow especially if you have the spending power. Like how Klopp wemt from losing like six Cup finals in a row to winning the big one.