Can you show me where it shows Bruno's passing stats for United have been 74%?
Last season it was 79%.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Can you show me where it shows Bruno's passing stats for United have been 74%?
Last season it was 79%.
Edit. My mistake. I've probably read his last sentence wrong. I read "because of Ole" as meaning he's the reason instead of in spite of. Still early in the morning for me.
This is it. He's sustained top 4 finishes with what was arguably our worst squad since the 80s. He's developed the players he had at his disposal and improved some of them beyond recognition.
He's been, in a couple of words, a top manager.
Now, he's finally getting the sort of backing that LvG and Jose got for the whole duration of their tenure, and we should now be able to see what he can do with a squad of proper quality and depth. It isn't quite there yet for me, but it's the closest we've been to one in a long, long time. Irrespective, I'm confident that we'll see a marked improvement this season.
Did you not see some of our victories over City?
Yeah, you probably misread. If, say, we and Chelsea both have bids accepted for a player, and all else being equal (the economic package and such), it'll come down to who of Ole or Tuchel gives the best sales pitch.
Ah, the return of the infamous "no tactical nous". Because a layman on the Caf is perfectly able to see when a victory is a result of tactics or not 
It's the laziest argument by far, because it's literally impossible to prove otherwise.
It's the laziest argument by far, because it's literally impossible to prove otherwise.
What? Varane and Maguire aren't top class when it comes to their ability on the ball. Maguire's carries rarely create anything.
Don't get me wrong, they're phenomenal defenders, but we definitely need a midfielder that can pick up the ball and play.
I have a lot of faith in Ole getting this one right.
Ah, the return of the infamous "no tactical nous". Because a layman on the Caf is perfectly able to see when a victory is a result of tactics or not
It's the laziest argument by far, because it's literally impossible to prove otherwise.
What's worse is in all our big wins, the genius tactical manager on the other side is unable to come up with a solution against our simple plan of letting players showcase their brilliance.
Ah, but didn't you know that the brilliant posters in here have an explanation for that as well? You see, that is because of individual brilliance. Ole is the only manager who has individually brilliant players
That is why we've predominantly struggled against teams that park the bus(genius tactics, btw) and why we keep conceding goals after sloppy defending on set pieces, goalkeeper errors and counter attacks started because one of our central midfielders lose their head and needlessly concede possession in a very dangerous position. If only our individually brilliant players could get some proper tactics then we'd get rid of these problems for sure! I don't even understand why we've signed Sancho and Varane. It's clearly Ole that is the problem. We should have finished 1st instead of 2nd, honestly.
Well then give me some highlights of other CB with that ability on the ball? Really want to see your understanding of ball playing CB.
I'm baffled.
I haven't seen Varane much but Maguire is top class on the ball. Just because he is English doesn't mean he is a poor passer.
Really? Did he not go through a patch where he beat every top manager in the league with his tactics, despite having worse squads.
He has since been squad building and evolving this team tactically. I'm surprised you can't see it.
When Jose left, he took a disjointed squad but played with a high intensity high press style. Players weren't prepared for this and ran out of steam after 14-15 games.
He got rid of the players who needed to go (Fellaini, Lukaku, Sanchez, Young, Smalling, Rojo, Darmian, etc.). We had a 6 month period where we played reactive counter attacking football (because Bruno wasn't signed and Pogba got injured) with Andreas Perierra as the no. 10. Clearly that was some of our worst football under him, and gave him the bad reputation of being only a counter attacking manager. Bruno came in and performances and results picked up immediately. Tactically, we moved to a new set up with very little high pressing.
Post the first Covid lockdown, after Pogba returned from injury - we changed tactics again and played a much more possession oriented style. (Pogba and Matic played almost every game till the end of the season). We were keeping 55-65% possession every game.
Last season, Ole changed tactics again to reduce his CBs getting exposed after the 6-1 loss to Spurs. (I think that was the end of the Matic - Pogba axis in midfield for big games). This brought in the new McFred combo. Again a different tactical approach to balance out the weaknesses of Lindelof.
If anything, Ole has shown tactical flexibility during his time as manager with us. His problem however is showing this flexibility "in-game". He seldom makes a change early enough in a game if an approach is not working. In the past you could forgive this partially because he didn't have good players on the bench. This can no longer be an excuse with the squad he has now built.
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Passing is one thing.
How many CB can dribble and protect the ball like him? Not to mention his classy first touches, technique overall. How is that not top class???
I can't understand how anyone could even be questioning Ole at this point. The transformation of the squad and the club in such a short space of time has been phenomenal - whilst managing to achieve results on the pitch at the same time
United's net spend is the highest in Europe during his time and he hasn't won anything, yet you are SHOCKED that people are questioning him? You don't have to agree, but it's really weird that you can't understand it.
Can't wait for a cracking season under Ole.
And City have had highest net spend I believe since Pep took over.
City have been getting it right for the past 6-8 years, Chelsea have spent pretty lavishly. Eventually you need to look at where you were 2-3 years ago and where are you now, and whether the amount spent has been worth it. And I think for most of his signings, you'd have to say that it has been
Nuance is important:
1. United consistently overspend for players. This is not the manager's fault, regardless of who is in charge.
2. United is really poor at selling players too. This is not the manager's fault, regardless of who is in charge.
3. United is a wealthy club and is expected to be near the top regardless.
4. United has been in a really bad position and never really had a top squad post Fergie. Van Gaal and Mourinho also made a lot of bad signings that had to be fixed on a later stage.
Ultimately, it's better to spend a feckton of money until you get everything right, and then consistently spend a little every year in order to make sure that you stay on top. This is why City seemingly is doing so much better with their money recently. It's because they've been consistent with their spending(and also had better luck with their transfers, obviously). They don't need to be the top spender every year, because they only need to make one or two expensive signings per year to keep their well-oiled machinery in check. Ole, on the other hand, needed to make at least 5 or 6 solid signings when he arrived. Up until a few weeks ago he'd only been given 3 out of these 6. Now he finally has 5.
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As far as Ole vs his predecessors goes: he has a lower average annual net spend than Van Gaal and Mourinho if we adjust for inflation (which we obviously should).
Really wish he had won Europa to get so many negative people to back off.
Although I do wonder, with news of how Ole went the day after the Europa Loss to the higher ups to get shit done, whether this would have the same argument had he won Europa.
Lets be honest, Europa would have been nice to celebrate for the night (and so nay sayers would shut up), but in terms of long term, nobody would care (much like when Jose won the little trophies). In terms of the big trophies, we are in a better position now to compete and look like we can get stronger too.
I dont watch much PL aside from Utd. Of the players I have seen quite a bit, off the top of my head: Virgil, Alaba, Hummels, Blind, Bazoer, Boateng
Skrinar isn't as flashy, but reads the game well. I'd include Badstuber as well if he was still on the scene.
You know how youtube works.
I'd say Maguire's ability on the ball is similar to Bonucci's.
Their composed nature and their willingness to take responsibility fools a lot of casual viewers into thinking they're exceptional on the ball.
They get the simple passes right, have the technique to hit an long ball, but lack vision, awareness and technique to be very effective with their dribbles and passing through the lines.
Great defenders though, just not among the world's best in that specific area.
When Ole joined these were his options:
Rojo, Young, Valencia, Smalling, Darmian, Sanchez, Fellaini, Herrera Lukaku
Now we have: AWB, Maguire, Varane, Telles, Dan James, Bruno, Sancho, Cavani
Rojo, Young, Valencia, Smalling, Darmian, Sanchez, Fellaini, Herrera Lukaku
Now we have: AWB, Maguire, Varane, Telles, Dan James, Bruno, Sancho, Cavani
I've started typing out a couple of responses to that and realise I don't even know where to begin
I need to go to sleep and I haven't got an hour to sit and type out everything wrong with that statement so I'll just say if that's what you think, good luck to you
I just stated two facts. It's not really weird that people are questioning him, even "well-respected" pundits are. You can like him as much as you want, but he's not exactly flawless.
Really looking forward to the season. Solskjaer seems to be happy with the backing and the club have spent huge sums. Hopefully we can mount a genuine title charge.
You can't understand or you just won't? The guy has lost a Europa League final from the 7th best team in Spain and made his first sub in the 100th minute (I guess he was sleeping before extra time). Also a lot of posters here try to diss Tuchel claiming that Chelsea won the Ch.league because of lucky draws (against Atletico, Real and City) and if we were in it we could have won it too against those teams.
Great transfers and all but this year he has to deliver. He has spent almost 400m up until now.
About 300m net actually.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/trans...&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0
You can't understand or you just won't? There's a guy who lost a CL QF from the 7th best team in France and made just 2 subs despite being allowed 5 (I guess he had forgotten the rules).
See, you can change the name and team and make the same argument about nearly every manager in the world when talking about a one-off game
Ole inherited a squad who had signed complete shite for years, of course he's gonna have to spend more to compete with rivals who have had a coherent transfer policy and (in the case of City) unlimited funds in the years leading up to him becoming our manager.
He inherited all of these signings when he joined:
Rojo, Dalot, Darmian, Lindelof, Bailly (injury prone), Fellaini, Mata (past it), Matic (past it), Sanchez (past it)
Also money spent since Ole started is a nonsense metric as Pep/Klopp have already built their teams, we should be looking at money spent since they started their roles vs. 2.5 years into the job to make it like for like. Even then it's still bollocks for the first reason I mentioned above, but at least it's slightly more logical.
He inherited all of these signings when he joined:
Rojo, Dalot, Darmian, Lindelof, Bailly (injury prone), Fellaini, Mata (past it), Matic (past it), Sanchez (past it)
Also money spent since Ole started is a nonsense metric as Pep/Klopp have already built their teams, we should be looking at money spent since they started their roles vs. 2.5 years into the job to make it like for like. Even then it's still bollocks for the first reason I mentioned above, but at least it's slightly more logical.
Sure, but even if they fecked up at times like every manager does, they have trophies to their names and they brought some success for their clubs. This can’t be said about Ole and there’s little to suggest he turns into a serial winner overnight.
Quick check on this site suggests Pep spent 770m EUR in his first three summer windows (16/17 - 19/20) vs. 403m EUR for Ole (19/20 - 21/22), although this is missing an additional 42m or so for Varane.
Klopp sent 562m EUR between 15/16 and 18/19, which is probably a fairer comparison as he had a bigger rebuild job than Pep. The fees would still need readjusting for inflation for it to be a fair comparison.
Other than the steady progression, fixing of a shambolic squad and general mood around the club barring a minority of people who demand instant gratification
Yep. Spot on. Comparisons have to be fair and those are the correct ways to compare the 3. I expect Ole will spend less as the years go by now that he's addressed most areas.
Unless the looneys get him sacked when we lose our next match.
Did you, by any chance, miss season 13/14 through season 18/19?
In case you did, Manchester United had effectively become an upper mid-table team in that time. We finished 6th or lower more often than we qualified for the Champions League (through the PL) during that time (FACT).
Therefore, I am going to dismiss your moaning about Ole's substitutions in a European Final and take solace in the fact we're no longer a laughing stock and look like we're making serious progress for the first time in a long time!
What you don't UNDERSTAND is that United also had one of the highest net spend in Europe but were going NOWHERE despite that. People see progress and building a squad that can compete at highest levels. Presumably Varane can also SEE this and that's why he has joined us in his prime. Also randomly CAPITALISING some words does not help make your argument.
Say what you like about him but he's put together a very good team, one which arguably still has some spots that could be quite easily upgraded, i.e CM and GK.
As of right now, I don't know if I think this team is quite good enough win the Premier League or the Champions League but we're not far away at all. If we add a really good CM and RB then I may reconsider my stance.
As of right now, I don't know if I think this team is quite good enough win the Premier League or the Champions League but we're not far away at all. If we add a really good CM and RB then I may reconsider my stance.
No, I didn't miss any of that. But I refuse to accept it. So I'll assume that when Mou was saying all the shit about football heritage you agreed.
I don't know about laughing stock, but the thing is that every time that matters during Oles' tenure we bottle it.
First (half) season we were competing with Arsenal and Chelsea who bottles it first in the last 10 or so games.
First full season bottling all the cup semis, and lucky for us Leicester were terrible in the last 7-8 games to get the top 4 cup.
Second full season again bottling cup semis, not being able to get 1 point from 3 Champions League games(unbelievable) and got dumped in the EL, in which case we were terrible in the final (literally the biggest game of last season).
I've said that he earned his 3rd (full) season, but the excuses have dried up he has one of the most expensive squads in world football, this time he has to deliver. Anything less than Challenge for the league and the Champions league will not be enough.
We can't support a manager just because he has an eye for transfers also the football served isn't a lot better than Van Gaal or Mourinho eras
Good post IMO. Can’t believe people would be still taking about progress and improvement if we again finish with 0 trophies and no genuine challenge for the league next season. Hope Ole proves me wrong.
Goals excite me, we scored more goals last season in all comps than we have done in the past 10 tens. On top of that during Oles time at United he's provided significantly more 3+ goal games than Jose and LVG.
Personally, the main faults Ole now has as a Manager is his in game management and his lack of silverware. We also concede too many goals, we'll see if that improves this year with a proper CB partnership.
Personally, the main faults Ole now has as a Manager is his in game management and his lack of silverware. We also concede too many goals, we'll see if that improves this year with a proper CB partnership.
I think our defence was very good last season from start of the year until Maguire got injured, so it should be much better with Maguire back and Varane next to him.
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