I disagree with your point to begin with, but it certainly doesn't help when you just make up numbers to back up said point.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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I disagree with your point to begin with, but it certainly doesn't help when you just make up numbers to back up said point.
Fair enough, but it does read a-bit like you were downplaying the fixtures/results. At the end of the day, fair is fair, so if Ole was praised for the results in these fixtures previously, then questions should be asked this season.
I'm torn on his progress, I honestly am. While some are downplaying it, some are going to extremes to praise it. Since he came in, we are in a much better place and this is the best I've felt about the club post-Fergie. I still have lingering doubts about his capabilities, though. I honestly don't see any huge tangible progress vs last season. Yes, we are better points wise and that is progress but I'm struggling to see much more than that. I would love him to succeed but I'm on the fence as to where we will go under him. I guess we will know more come the end of the season.
You’re right, but then I see people say we play like a pub team and I feel justified (probably wrongly).
Fair enough: Though another poster would say we were lucky to win and were smashed when they won. Such is the nature of this place under Ole
Yep, it goes both ways. The same people who said the big game record was pointless because we would drop points to Bournemouth are now the same ones lambasting our big game record this season @Robbie Boy .
For what it's worth, my thoughts are that while the record certainly isn't great, it's not necessarily bad either. The base is there to push on in the games and except for the aberration that was Spurs, every game has been evenly matched with us shading more than a few of them and its only the fine margins which have cost us the wins. It needs to improve but you have to remember it takes two to tango in these games and the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and even Liverpool have been as guilty in surrendering the opportunity to be brave in these games as we have. So the ire should be on them as much as it is on us.
I agree with that and I'm in same boat. Just see where we end up, my guy feeling is we won't win title with Ole in charge but he has improved the team so much that if we go with some other quality coach, we might end up winning the league as we have lot of talent in this team.
Also I agree with your point that Ole is tactically good and people dont give him enough credit. Also that other top teams don't commit too much against us as they are worried about the counters. So most of the games are just tactical battles cancelling each other out.
There wouldn't be 'in / out' nonsense if some could just be more objective and stop being so hysterical. It really is tedious. Hard to believe at times that we all support the same club.
Yeah I said in other post, now teams don't commit against us because of how good we are on counters. Most games end up cancelling each other. Surely area to improve for this season and future.
We've been ok but need to improve. Yesterday, I thought overall we were the better side. In bigger games it often comes down to one or two clear cut chances and we need to get better at putting them away.
Yep, and I enjoy it untill I read a few posts on here
It’s going to be hard to win the league against City but not impossible I don’t think next year, can’t see Liverpool coming back as dominant, Chelsea are a still a bit meh but you never know, atleast we feel like we’re in with a decent chance amongst these now, I do anyway.
all depends on the signings we make and who leaves in the summer imo going into next year. I’d 100% give Ole next year too barring some catastrophic fall down the table that doesn’t seem likely to happen at the moment.
As you said, it’s a roller coaster so may aswel jump on and have some fun instead of sitting on there looking for loose rivets or moaning it’s too rattly all the way around
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the Ole in crowd is an invention by spoilt fans, really we’re just fans of a club who don’t cry about the manager after every match, win or lose.
the Ole in crowd is an invention by spoilt fans, really we’re just fans of a club who don’t cry about the manager after every match, win or lose.
Not really tbf. There are people who support him, which is normal. Then the hysterical 'in crowd' who are every bit as bad and wummy as the hysterical 'out crowd'.
Yeah just like at Anfield.
It was a mistake but I corrected it! I thought you'd disagree...I wouldn't expect anything else
What other club has a ‘manager-in’ section of fans? Really? It’s all come about from the unjust shit that gets pushed our managers way, not just from the media but our own fans. Madness.
Which part?
Just wums. Unfortunately they exist on both sides. Sorry.
How hed changed the style and brought his own philosophy and you can see how they play to it and going to succeed, after a handful of games
come on.No we don't play the same with Rio and Vidic. We just have two midfield players and 4 forwards. Scholes is wrong in that it's not because of our two CBs. We can play Bailly who has pace and go with two CBs and play without two defensive midfielders. But we simply don't have even one DM who is good enough to play as a one man DM. Matic is too slow.
We can buy Sancho and Haaland but until we sort out the DM issue we won't be commiting to an attacking system.
Ole doesn't trust his one man midfield DM rather than his two CBs.
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Is that even an answer to my post?
Ole may need to re-think the Fred/McTominay partnership in big games.
Yes? There are wums on both sides. Sooo therefore it creates this extreme divide. Most live in a vacuum where there is rational debate about him. Then you have the hysterical 'in vs out' crowd. Both sides are god awful.
For what it's worth, I sometimes visit other clubs forums and yes, Spurs fans atm have 'in vs out' posters who are hysterical and I've seen similar before regarding Everton on 'grandoldteam'. I know it's awesome to pretend that United fans are the absolute worst but yeah, all fans are the same. Crazy, I know.
I think its completely fair for anybody to be marginally on the fence about him. We are talking about a manager that hasn't delivered big trophies yet, so it would be dumb to declare undying long term love towards Ole. I agree that the Cafe is now full of posters who are completely over the top in praise or criticism. They both feed each other and its lowered the quality of this forum considerably IMO.
My position is largely unchanged over the last two years. Absolutely the right man to rebuild the team and a much smarter tactician than he gets credit for. People like to say 'can he take us all the way?' but I'm not sure what that means. Fergie type dominance is not possible with the competition how it is now, but for me all we can really ask of him is that he unlocks the full potential of this team and I genuinely believe that he can. I feel that he gives our players the platform to be the best that they can be, and I think he knows exactly what or who we need to bring in to make us better. Its up to the club to deliver that to him.
Inevitably there may come a time where we would look at the position of the team and feel that 'enough is enough', but I think we will all know when that time comes and I don't believe that we are anywhere close to that yet. He is the right man to lead us into next season and there's little point in looking any further ahead than that.
He's digging a difficult hole where we're overly dependent on Rashford and Bruno assisting or scoring, to the point where even if they are both utterly atrocious we can't sub them off.
I still maintain that he needs to change the strategy and/or formation, to make up for the rather massive issue which is the underperforming attacking players.
I still maintain that he needs to change the strategy and/or formation, to make up for the rather massive issue which is the underperforming attacking players.
How hed changed the style and brought his own philosophy and you can see how they play to it and going to succeed, after a handful of games
In my unbiased view (I'm a United ST holder, have gone for years and have zero affinity to Chelsea or Arsenal), I can see why this might be the case though. Tuchel hasn't had time yet and if he doesn't take them further than he has so far then he will fail. Arteta has an incredibly weak squad and is relying now on mostly youth players. I'd argue their squad now is worse than ours has been at any point since Fergie retired. It's hard to say exactly how well, or not, he is doing.
Like I said though, these are all the same points many made in Ole's defence at numerous times since he arrived here.
Fair enough, I don’t visit other teams forums. It’s just insufferable to see it so bad here.
I know I wum atleast a little back as I can’t believe what I’m seeing sometimes and that doesn’t help, that’s where my point comes form there only being an ‘in’ because it seems such an unjust vocal out going on, in my eyes atleast. Picking and digging at every little thing.
oh well, stay aboard and see where we end up, I’m enjoying where we are to be honest compared to previous years
edit: re my last post and question I asked what other teams have such in out fans and you replied wums.
I know theres wums but I wanted to know what other teams have these and what causes such a divide. Maybe you’ve kind of answered that now in your follow up post
Pogba is injured, Matic isn't really an improvement and VDB...Yeah, let's not go there..
Cheers dude, makes way more sense now and I agree with you. I also 100% agree that he's the right man to take us into next season. I would love for him to be a huge success but I'll remain somewhat sceptical for now.
Re the first paragraph, yeah the OTT's on both sides really do cause unnecessary tension and widen a divide that shouldn't even be there.
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Maybe not Fergie type dominance, but City are on course for winning 3 out of the last 4 PL's. Can Ole bring that to Untied?
Fair enough: Though another poster would say we were lucky to win and were smashed when they won. Such is the nature of this place under Ole
Hes not at all. In big games Ole has McTominay and Fred be far more defensive to cover the defenders. You look at aerial views during the game and there is a MASSIVE gap between the deeper mids and Bruno and the attackers. We don't push up as a whole team due to the lack of defensive pace, so our press is only our front 4 and then a massive gap to run into until McTominay and Fred appear. On the ball they also provide very little and stay pretty far back. It's due to both personnel and tactics as to why our midfielders play as they do. Stems from the CBs not being good enough to handle themselves, proceeds to the midfielders not being good enough going forward, and then Ole for being overly protective.
The problem is that it's just an endless loop of wumming at this point. I mean, did you see the thread yesterday about fans that don't support Ole having a low IQ? What is the purpose of this kind of shite? It clearly just creates more conflict. I've said it before too: I'm fairly sure a-lot of the OTT's on both sides are far more rational in their opinions away from here. It's just they're now caught up in personal wummy battles and it causes extreme opinions.
Yeah for sure, its clearly the best I've felt about us post-Fergie. He'll be here next season and deservedly so. Expectations will rightfully increase by that point.
I agree to be fair
City are basically doing Fergie style dominance though? They won in 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2021. Including this season they'll have won 5 of the last 10. Sir Alex won 13 of 21, so he's at 62%, but Peps dominance is at 60% so it's effectively the same. The best anyone can realistically hope for is a 1 in 3 sort of situation in the premier league IMO, unless you fall on a Pep/Klopp (and even there, you have to combine them with the finances to support that).
You can look at one. While we grinded out some amazing results last season against better opponents, we now have worse results to show for. But take a look at heat maps and stats! We now press much further up the field, and we have bigger numbers on possession. How anyone can say we “parked the bus” yesterday is beyond me! We pressed and retained really well. But our passing and movement was abysmal. We are so vulnerable when we miss a couple of players. These are positive steps and development in our play. But it also show the need for investment. We can’t continue to play with two central mids unable to pass! We loose the ball in bad positions and that is what make us stretched. Not us tactically trying to protect our back four. The moaning is just so logical flaw! Why press so high if parking the bus?
Not on mondays
Matic wouldn't be a bad option imo. He's a better passer and more assured in possession.
While I agree that teams are getting more cautious against us, and we have shifted to a better approach in these games - starting with a back 4 instead of back 5 + 2 DMs like underdogs, we need to start getting a few wins in these fixtures going forward, especially because of the effect on morale in our side as well as a rival.
A draw at SB and Anfield are good results, but against the Big 6 (Leicester instead of Arsenal), we have lost 1 and drew all other games, which as a collective is good. This tactic of drawing earlier might have worked 10 years ago, when it was a big 4 and hence the number of big games were 6 instead of 10, but we can't really afford to drop 20 points straight up here, especially if we want to win the title in next 2 years.
A draw at SB and Anfield are good results, but against the Big 6 (Leicester instead of Arsenal), we have lost 1 and drew all other games, which as a collective is good. This tactic of drawing earlier might have worked 10 years ago, when it was a big 4 and hence the number of big games were 6 instead of 10, but we can't really afford to drop 20 points straight up here, especially if we want to win the title in next 2 years.
Well put. But you are wrong mate! Look deeper into it, and you will find a different picture! We push, but we are also pushed.l, and that is creating the unbalance. This is not a tactical thing, but lack of abilities. While looking in to it. Keep an eye on Bruno! Clearly some are not following the plan, and the plan is high line retention and keeping the ball when we can’t exploit the other teams unbalance. Just watch why.
City have done almost everything right over a long period of time. They have probably the best coach in the history of football and unlimited funds to support him with. That CANNOT be the standard that we hold Ole or any other manager to otherwise we will continue on this cycle that so many fans are currently in, where nothing is ever good enough and fans are never satisfied.
This is why it is imperative that we are patient. All we can do as a club is keep making progress and keep building up this team because we can get closer to them. We have gotten closer to them and we can get closer still, and its also highly likely that once this team wins a big competition we will win more of them because overcoming that mental hurdle is a huge barrier the team at the moment. I see no reason why Ole cannot deliver that. People often remark on our semi-final losses as a negative, but for me its encouraging. If we keep going deep in competitions we will win one very soon and then the team will kick on from that and more will follow. Its unfortunate that our luck in the draws is forcing us to do it the hard way.
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