Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Roboc7 said:
We’re still only able to talk about the top four and it’s no different to any other time since SAF left. We’ve got 5 points out of 21 and scored once against the big six, that’s disappointing whoever is manager.

2017/18 we finished 19 points behind City in second place, gap is likely to be similar and best we can finish is 2nd. Ole is likely to have spent 2 and a half years taking us back to where we were less 6 months before he took over.
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the problem is that we lack the depth we need. We’re not able to rest bruno and marcus for instance. Pogba got injured, that didn’t help either. I am not saying we are the finished article, i’m saying we did progress.

he spent the last 2 years bringing back the football we want to see from united. Again, it’s not complete yet and i never said that, but the progress is there. Ole took after mourinho almost shattered the team. After finishing second, the team almost had a free fall under mourinho, ole is fixing this.
 
He'sRaldo said:
I agree with a lot of that, but one thing I can't agree with is that our expectations haven't lowered.

We're realistic because we know we have an inferior manager to at least 2 teams in the PL, and thus will need time to build a perfect squad in order to challenge under him.
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We had 2 “world class” managers after sir alex. What were our expectations then? We played boring football with LVG and parked the bus with jose. I almost lost interest in football during that time mate. It’s not lowering our standard, it’s setting proper expectations. We can have an expectation to win the league, the FA cup, the champions league this year. But would that be realistic? We want to go back to such expectations but meanwhile we need to see the progress and be realistic.
 
united for life said:
the problem is that we lack the depth we need. We’re not able to rest bruno and marcus for instance. Pogba got injured, that didn’t help either. I am not saying we are the finished article, i’m saying we did progress.

he spent the last 2 years bringing back the football we want to see from united. Again, it’s not complete yet and i never said that, but the progress is there. Ole took after mourinho almost shattered the team. After finishing second, the team almost had a free fall under mourinho, ole is fixing this.
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You can't be serious.. is this the brand of football you want to see United play? I cant believe that.
 
Think he should have maybe thrown Amad on for the last ten minutes because maybe he could have found a bit of magic from out of nowhere for us to snatch the points
 
Womp said:
I feel you really are missing the point if you think people are only disappointed because of the results.

It's quite often the performances that go alongside our results that is making people lose hope. Results wise we've done okay, the question is whether you can genuinely see him being able to progress us further from this point.
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performances are generally better than what I’ve seen over the last 8 years. We still feel inferior to some teams (probably we are), but the team still needs a proper transfer window to be in a shape to properly compete. I for one don’t buy into the world class manager theory. We tried this and it didn’t work. We won a couple of trophies but nothing was sustainable.
 
Dominos said:
We're on course for 73 points at our current PPG, up from 66 last season. We also got dumped out the champions league at the group stage.

This nothing more than a medicore season so far, let's not get things twisted. It's the sort of bare minimum improvement we expected at the start of the season. 73 points will get you top 4 but it's not getting anywhere near a title, and our current position is even flattering relative to actual performances given we're overperforming our xPTS by some margin.

This team is not even as good as Mourinho's 2nd place team that got significantly higher PPG and actually made it to the CL knockouts. And barely a positive word is said about that team. So why the fans on here are so excited about this team and this season I've no idea.
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You realise that the 'Mourinho 2nd place team' over achieved xPTS you refer to massively right? It had them finishing 6th.
 
We don't have a bus to park. I have always said I don't think he is the man but today this result I would accept. Why? Because if we had gone gung-ho and lost it, it would have been worse.
We need to be realistic. We are not going to catch City. We are missing Pogba and Cavani. It's a massive loss.
My issues with Ole are different. He is not going to get Fred and McTominay to play like Xavi and Iniesta. They can't control the ball and they can't pass. Fred, when we have possession doesn't know what to do. He is good when we don't have possession.
We need a CF who can control the ball and bring others into play. Neither Greenwood nor Rashford can do that.
Today I won't bash him. If he loses to Palace I will.
 
united for life said:
We had 2 “world class” managers after sir alex. What were our expectations then? We played boring football with LVG and parked the bus with jose. I almost lost interest in football during that time mate. It’s not lowering our standard, it’s setting proper expectations. We can have an expectation to win the league, the FA cup, the champions league this year. But would that be realistic? We want to go back to such expectations but meanwhile we need to see the progress and be realistic.
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We expected youth development from LVG which we kind of got, and we expected the league from Mourinho, and were disappointed with 2nd. The key for both though was that top 4 was the minimum expectation, not the standard. Trophies were also expected.

With Ole I agree that we've had the most fun, but we've also had the lowest expectations. Some were expecting us to finish midtable last season, while others this season were expecting us to battle for 4th place; and that was considered normal.

At no point during Ole's tenure has it been generally accepted that he needs to deliver a big title, and that wasn't the case with our previous managers. It is definitely lowering expectations, but whether it pays off or not remains to be seen.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
You can't be serious.. is this the brand of football you want to see United play? I cant believe that.
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work in progress, yes. Better than what i’ve seen since sir alex retired.

what do you expect from this current squad? Maybe you can share your views rather than picking a sentence here and there to randomly comment on. That’s if you want of course.
 
He'sRaldo said:
We expected youth development from LVG which we kind of got, and we expected the league from Mourinho, and were disappointed with 2nd. The key for both though was that top 4 was the minimum expectation, not the standard.

With Ole I agree that we've had the most fun, but I think we've also had the lowest expectations. Some were expecting us to finish midtable last season, while others this season were expecting us to battle for 4th place; and that was considered normal.

At no point during Ole's tenure has it been generally accepted that he needs to deliver a big title. That wasn't the case with our previous managers. It is definitely lowering expectations, but whether it pays off or not remains to be seen.
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again mate, that’s my point. I agree with what you’re saying. But the way i see it is that expecting this squad to finish in the top 4 is fair. It’s not united’s standards i agree, but being realistic during a rebuild is important since it takes time. We still need to sign some players and strengthen some positions, we need our greenwoods and amads to mature. This takes time and patience
 
He'sRaldo said:
We expected youth development from LVG which we kind of got, and we expected the league from Mourinho, and were disappointed with 2nd. The key for both though was that top 4 was the minimum expectation, not the standard. Trophies were also expected.

With Ole I agree that we've had the most fun, but we've also had the lowest expectations. Some were expecting us to finish midtable last season, while others this season were expecting us to battle for 4th place; and that was considered normal.

At no point during Ole's tenure has it been generally accepted that he needs to deliver a big title, and that wasn't the case with our previous managers. It is definitely lowering expectations, but whether it pays off or not remains to be seen.
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Agree. We should have fighted much better for the title this season. We had a good position, but then dropped points vs Sheffield and Liverpool in games we really needed to go for the wins.

Now City is in top form and we needed to keep up with them and hope they dropped form or at least have some pressure. Now it feels fully over already before we even played them twice.

We can still win two titles, but not seeing it with Ole really.
 
united for life said:
the problem is that we lack the depth we need. We’re not able to rest bruno and marcus for instance. Pogba got injured, that didn’t help either. I am not saying we are the finished article, i’m saying we did progress.

he spent the last 2 years bringing back the football we want to see from united. Again, it’s not complete yet and i never said that, but the progress is there. Ole took after mourinho almost shattered the team. After finishing second, the team almost had a free fall under mourinho, ole is fixing this.
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He may be injured at the moment, but we have had countless opportunities to rest Bruno and play VDB or even Pogba. That's amazing depth right there in that position. 3 players that most teams in the world would have and 2 have sat on our bench most of the season.

Our depth might not be what you'd have on Football Manager, but it's better than practicality every other team bar City.
 
united for life said:
work in progress, yes. Better than what i’ve seen since sir alex retired.

what do you expect from this current squad? Maybe you can share your views rather than picking a sentence here and there to randomly comment on. That’s if you want of course.
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Work in progress, we have been playing the same brand of football for 2 and a half years now. The same way we played against PSG when Ole was still Interim, counter.
What do I expect? Well I certainly don't want us playing counter attack at home against Newcastle that's for sure.
In principle, Manchester United should be playing that way against 5 maybe 6 teams in the whole of Europe, against the best clubs. But I get it our squad isn't good enough yet.
But our squad is easily the 4th best squad in the league, so we should be taking the game to most if not all teams except City Liverpool and Chelsea specially at home. But we don't, Ole plays the same tactics in every game against all teams, he will play the same against Palace on Wednesday and the same against City on Sunday. 4231 sit back absorb attacks and counter. When teams play a high defence against it works when they don't it doesn't.
Next year Chelsea will be spending big again, this time with a proper manager, Liverpool won't play the whole season without defenders again, and city will be adding to their squad, the best we can hope for again with Ole is top 4 because he's still learning at this level, and that's not good enough for a club of our history.
 
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croadyman said:
Think he should have maybe thrown Amad on for the last ten minutes because maybe he could have found a bit of magic from out of nowhere for us to snatch the points
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He only got on the pitch when it was practically impossible to lose our 4-0 lead against Real Sociedad in the Europa League...like hell Ole had any intention of using him at all today.
 
Mainoldo said:
So what is kicking on? Just want it in redcafe writing so I can comeback to you next season when other clubs kick on ahead of us being as Chelsea now have an actual manager and Liverpool will have fit players.
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Just like how you predicted Chelsea under Lampard would do much better than Ole. Small tip you should stop writing as all you have done here is change your goalpost in regards to Ole.
 
Pretty much a repeat of the 2017-2018 season.

We play well in moments and we are incapable of imposing our will on the big teams.

Difference to me is our squad is better now than then and the atmosphere around the club is much better(though this could backfire too).

Ole has steadied the ship. He deserves credit, but we need a new manager to take us to another level.
 
Unfortunately I think we have one style of football and that’s it. Today wasn’t the worst game to play the two deep central midfielders but with very little attacking output from our forwards we just look poor and just hope we can put a counter attack together or hope for a piece of Bruno magic. Very basic tactics.

In the games where we will dominant possession and be on the attack Ole continues with his same formation and caveman like tactics. Our patterns of play and attacking output are non existent.

He really needs to look at the points we drop against lower teams from the same god awful tactics. We’ve dropped points against Sheffield United, Everton and West Brom but in all realism we were lucky to take maximum points from the Aston Villa, Fulham and Burnley games too. These are games which we should be dominating but we just go through the motions.

I really hope Ole can turn it around because of course we all love him from his playing days but tactically he’s so poor. Away from home against top opposition his counter attacking system works well at times but he’s become a one trick pony.
 
AshRK said:
Maybe this time we kick on from that 2nd position which we didn't in 18-19 season. I don't think finishing 2nd will be something to celebrate but hands on heart many would have taken us finishing 2nd with 75 points at the start of the season. No one expected us to win or to be fair even challenge for it but we have made decent progress again. Now whether we kick it or not only time will tell.
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What we expected at the beginning of the season is irrelevant. Fact of the matter is we were there and we crumbled, and we can’t say we just came up against teams with more quality. Sheffield United, West Brom, Arsenal and Everton. That’s 9 points dropped in a matter of pure underachievement and any attempt to deny that is intellectually dishonest.
 
always_hoping said:
Not meaningless nor empty. The stats shows little has separated the two in the matches thus far.
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Oh good so we’re back in the CL and we get the points we dropped against West Brom, Sheffield United and Everton back right
 
If this was under Jose, the manner of these results would be considered deplorable.
Second place was deplorable.
Wins like these under Jose were treated with dismay.

Under Ole its an improvement. The result is now acceptable.

Double standards.

Give off.

We've drawn four consecutive games against the traditional top six 0-0, scored one from a penalty in a thrashing, and have not won a single big six game after that, nor have we scored against them in the league.

And there are people here actually saying that this trend is acceptable. That these are decent results.

Feck sake. The complete shifting of every single goalpost because of who the manager is is beginning to sicken me.
 
If we bought to improve our first team like Chelsea did I'd be expecting more but as it is, my aim for the season was to get Top 4 with 75+ points. We're still on course for that (though with a little bit of ground to make up) and if we do attain it, it's a good season all things considered.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
What we expected at the beginning of the season is irrelevant. Fact of the matter is we were there and we crumbled, and we can’t say we just came up against teams with more quality. Sheffield United, West Brom, Arsenal and Everton. That’s 9 points dropped in a matter of pure underachievement and any attempt to deny that is intellectually dishonest.
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Even with the poor performances (though the only ones that were poor in the games you mentioned were Sheffield United and West Brom. We did more than enough to win those other games and even with our poor performances in the two I highlighted refereeing decisions cost us getting all three points.
 
This season is the most frustrating post SAF. The league was open to attack and take, but we blew the chance.
The CL group was there to be won after a good start, but we blew it.

City started poorly, but Pep improved them and now they look like clear winners.

LVG seasons I guess was also very annoying since those leagues could have been won too with better signings and going for it much more with attacking tactics.
Although I lost hope pretty early those seasons due to our horrible style.
 
rotherham_red said:
Even with the poor performances (though the only ones that were poor in the games you mentioned were Sheffield United and West Brom. We did more than enough to win those other games and even with our poor performances in the two I highlighted refereeing decisions cost us getting all three points.
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And even Ferguson teams dropped points in games they were expected win.

Expectations before this season started are relevant as plenty feared a top 4 place was in danger, as you said United didn't improve their squad in the manner that Chelsea did and it remains to be seen will the required 3 or 4 starters be brought in this summer.
 
Paul_Scholes18 said:
This season is the most frustrating post SAF. The league was open to attack and take, but we blew the chance.
The CL group was there to be won after a good start, but we blew it.

City started poorly, but Pep improved them and now they look like clear winners.

LVG seasons I guess was also very annoying since those leagues could have been won too with better signings and going for it much more with attacking tactics.
Although I lost hope pretty early those seasons due to our horrible style.
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Why? Because we were top ahead of Man City who had played lesser games? It was always going to be tough in this covid year with the sheer number of matches we have to play. Everyone knew it, yet you are talking about this being most frustrating. It's because you suddenly hoped that we will have a Leicester type season. Not sure why you would think like that.

We are still hugely dependent on Bruno and Maguire both of whom have played almost every minute in the PL. We have games coming thick and fast and it is difficult in such circumstances. Ole has had to deal with his primary striker Martial just going to shite completely. He didn't get the man he wanted on the right side of the attack which has been an area of under investment since Ronaldo was sold. I think given the constraints he is working under, he is doing an awesome job. You only have to look as far as the current champions to see how difficult this is.

If we don't make top 4 spot this season, we will be hopelessly behind for the next 5-6 years or so given the hit on our revenues due to covid. I don't like the football we are playing and hate his late substitutions but he is doing a brilliant job at the moment keeping us where we are right now.
 
GioF said:
Unfortunately I think we have one style of football and that’s it. Today wasn’t the worst game to play the two deep central midfielders but with very little attacking output from our forwards we just look poor and just hope we can put a counter attack together or hope for a piece of Bruno magic. Very basic tactics.

In the games where we will dominant possession and be on the attack Ole continues with his same formation and caveman like tactics. Our patterns of play and attacking output are non existent.

He really needs to look at the points we drop against lower teams from the same god awful tactics. We’ve dropped points against Sheffield United, Everton and West Brom but in all realism we were lucky to take maximum points from the Aston Villa, Fulham and Burnley games too. These are games which we should be dominating but we just go through the motions.

I really hope Ole can turn it around because of course we all love him from his playing days but tactically he’s so poor. Away from home against top opposition his counter attacking system works well at times but he’s become a one trick pony.
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If you are going to mention those games, add up that we should have won against sheffield, ref wouldnt let that happen. Everton scored in the last sec. that’s football
 
I think Ole is putting his best foot forward. We're a disjoint team that can hurt you with quick transitions, but doesn't look it it's going to achieve anything special anytime soon. We're a solid enough team that can get enough points to secure top 4. I don't really see any signs of a genuinely top class team or manager here. The foundations in our football just aren't there. We should ensure we get champions League football and aim to get a better manager to try and make the step up.
 
Mindhunter said:
Why? Because we were top ahead of Man City who had played lesser games? It was always going to be tough in this covid year with the sheer number of matches we have to play. Everyone knew it, yet you are talking about this being most frustrating. It's because you suddenly hoped that we will have a Leicester type season. Not sure why you would think like that.

We are still hugely dependent on Bruno and Maguire both of whom have played almost every minute in the PL. We have games coming thick and fast and it is difficult in such circumstances. Ole has had to deal with his primary striker Martial just going to shite completely. He didn't get the man he wanted on the right side of the attack which has been an area of under investment since Ronaldo was sold. I think given the constraints he is working under, he is doing an awesome job. You only have to look as far as the current champions to see how difficult this is.

If we don't make top 4 spot this season, we will be hopelessly behind for the next 5-6 years or so given the hit on our revenues due to covid. I don't like the football we are playing and hate his late substitutions but he is doing a brilliant job at the moment keeping us where we are right now.
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Because we play negative crap in big games and do not even go for the title. We blew a great chance and part of it is due to our tactics. That is what frustrates me. When we blew it under LVG and Leicester won the league it did frustrate me less since at least I enjoyed Leicester winning it a bit and I had hopes that we would fight for it next season.

We have a top 3-4 squad and should fight for the title. That is what I expect from us at least under a decent manager. Under Ole I was not sure, but hoped he would improve too.
I predicted us third before the season, but had big hopes that we could improve and take a chance if Liverpool and City started slowly.

In the end if City have an insane run and win 15 games in a row you have to give them credit if we can't keep it up. Although our form has been horrible and it is due to us and not City we are out of it this early.
 
MattofManchester said:
If this was under Jose, the manner of these results would be considered deplorable.
Second place was deplorable.
Wins like these under Jose were treated with dismay.

Under Ole its an improvement. The result is now acceptable.

Double standards.

Give off.

We've drawn four consecutive games against the traditional top six 0-0, scored one from a penalty in a thrashing, and have not won a single big six game after that, nor have we scored against them in the league.

And there are people here actually saying that this trend is acceptable. That these are decent results.

Feck sake. The complete shifting of every single goalpost because of who the manager is is beginning to sicken me.
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For some reasons, our standards have become so low.

People are happy that we are second place but most importantly, we are the highest scoring team this season. But truly on the field, we’re not even close to Man City.

We play counter-attacking against bottom league teams, we have no style of play or identity. We are a mess of a team that hopes for a lucky bounce or an individual moment of brilliance, or a penalty every game.

Yet, we are happy of the improvement under Ole. Mind bottling if you ask me.
 
Paul_Scholes18 said:
Because we play negative crap in big games and do not even go for the title. We blew a great chance and part of it is due to our tactics. That is what frustrates me. When we blew it under LVG and Leicester won the league it did frustrate me less since at least I enjoyed Leicester winning it a bit and I had hopes that we would fight for it next season.

We have a top 3-4 squad and should fight for the title. That is what I expect from us at least under a decent manager. Under Ole I was not sure, but hoped he would improve too.
I predicted us third before the season, but had big hopes that we could improve and take a chance if Liverpool and City started slowly.

In the end if City have an insane run and win 15 games in a row you have to give them credit if we can't keep it up. Although our form has been horrible and it is due to us and not City we are out of it this early.
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I understand what you are saying. We aren't ambitious to really give City a run for their money and it is unfortunate that it is this way but believe me these 1 pointers picked from games like these will get us top four which is crucial for our long-term health as a club. I know if feels like succumbing to capitalism or running a football club like a business.

For the bolded part, I would have agreed with you if there was another club (even Liverpool) who would have been within touching distance of City. If last season's winners aren't able to keep up then what does it tell you about the difficulty level this year? I am pretty sure Solksjaer has been told about what his transfer budget will be in the scenario if he doesn't make top 4 and that's a future he is committed to avoid.

In the long-term though, this level isn't acceptable - you are right. But this year has created an existential crisis for football (and many other things).
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I think Ole is putting his best foot forward. We're a disjoint team that can hurt you with quick transitions, but doesn't look it it's going to achieve anything special anytime soon. We're a solid enough team that can get enough points to secure top 4. I don't really see any signs of a genuinely top class team or manager here. The foundations in our football just aren't there. We should ensure we get champions League football and aim to get a better manager to try and make the step up.
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I agree. He's done very well in some aspects but I just don't see the signs in his past or what he's instilled with us to consider he's on his way to building something special.

All feels a little bit like we have hit our ceiling with him, I really don't see much improvements in the team from a tactical standpoint and haven't for some time now.

We will make top 4 though and there's no chance they sack him if he does.
 
Paul Scholes pointed out yesterday that because our base triangle (Lindelof, DDG and Maguire) is weak and therefore not trusted, our holding midfielders have to sit right on top of them and there is no connection, sometimes 40 yards, between them and our forwards.

The only solution to solving that problem is strengthening that triangle. Ole fails to try other options to do that. An easy choice would be to rotate Henderson and Bailly in for some games and Tuanzebe when Bailly is not fit. What baffles me is that if Ole doesn’t trust Bailly to remain fit why doesn’t he play him when he actually is fit.

We missed Pogba and Cavani yesterday but surely VdB can get a game once in a while?

Ole is making the fundamental mistake of thinking that our earlier good run was due to DDG, Lindelof, Maguire and McFred. It was not - it was due to Pogba, Cavani and, yes, a great deal of luck.

Good managers test new hypotheses all the time, it keeps them and their players on their toes. Ole doesn’t. Yet.
 
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united for life said:
the problem is that we lack the depth we need. We’re not able to rest bruno and marcus for instance. Pogba got injured, that didn’t help either. I am not saying we are the finished article, i’m saying we did progress.

he spent the last 2 years bringing back the football we want to see from united. Again, it’s not complete yet and i never said that, but the progress is there. Ole took after mourinho almost shattered the team. After finishing second, the team almost had a free fall under mourinho, ole is fixing this.
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I dispute the Pogba being injured excuse. Ole has Donny Van De Beek which he could of used but hasn't. It's bloody awful management playing McTominay and Fred instead.
 
Leftback99 said:
You realise that the 'Mourinho 2nd place team' over achieved xPTS you refer to massively right? It had them finishing 6th.
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Exactly. The thing is under Mou and LVG, our xGD/xPts was never worthy of top 4. It was always 5th or 6th. Under Ole we were 4th last season, 3rd this one. How is this not progress! Progression in match performance measured by underlying stats is always more important atleast when we know we're some way away from title
 
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