I never would have given him the job on a permanent basis after the utter collapse from Mar-May 2019
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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I never would have given him the job on a permanent basis after the utter collapse from Mar-May 2019
That's not true though. We shithoused our way to 2nd place with our massive talented squad playing tumescent football. The stats all pointed to unsustainable points/goals and it showed.
Sure maybe he wasn't 'backed' with another couple hundred million but how does that explain the drop off the season after?
He never coached our team to play anything progressive that we could actually build on. If he couldn't even maintain the status quo of 2nd place or if we're being generous just being top 4 quality in the 3rd season, 'backing' him would have ended with likely more Lukaku/Sanchez type players and Young playing full back etc. There was no way he was going to be close to competing or maintaining the same 2nd place trajectory as the insane 18/19 season that City and Liverpool was showing.
Of course better players will help any manager but you've got to show you can manage, coach and extract the best out of your current crop of players before we can say 'being backed equals more chance of success'.
Jose has not demonstrated that at Utd/Spurs and whilst harsh but to a lesser extent neither has Ole.
Too soon what the hell
He’ll be given a new contract in the summer in my opinion.
Christ more years of pain ahead then
Think he would be better staying at Leipzig for one more season atleast. Also, as I said in my above post can't see him choosing us or Woodward convincing him to join us. I feel tuchel or poch was their preferred choices and now both are gone so unless we see some great collapse and us bottling top 4, board will not sack Ole and he will be given next season too.
Sadly I fear you are going to be right on this one
You don't need both Scott and Fred for West Brom.
That's 2 players that can't create.
Mata and or VDB should have started or even Diallo.
Missing out on top 4 in the covid Era could be catastrophic. Urgency is needed.
That's 2 players that can't create.
Mata and or VDB should have started or even Diallo.
Missing out on top 4 in the covid Era could be catastrophic. Urgency is needed.
Mata may not play for us again and Donny he clearly didn't want, unfortunately Amad was ill on Friday and didn't recover in time to make the squad for today which was a blow no doubt
Unless there is a breakdown of relationship between Ole and the board or Ole and the players, this board won't sack Ole. My worry is not him given another season, I can back that to an extent but my worry is the board giving him the new contract between now and end of the season. They did that with Jose, hope they don't repeat the mistake.
They have to give him a new deal quickly or one of our rivals in England or Europe might snap him up before we can do anything about that. We cannot risk that.
The absolute max we’ll ever be under him is nearly men. 2nd-3rd in the league, semi finalists in cup competitions. We won’t win anything under him. Quote me on it. I would love to be wrong. I don’t think I will be though. He doesn’t quite have what it takes.
Who he did or didn’t manage before shouldn’t be relevant anymore since we now have nearly 2.5 seasons of info and performances, so let’s stop throwing that around
Clueless manager. How many points is it now that we have dropped to relegation fodder? I believe any run of the mill manager would have us where we currently are in the league. A better one, with better coaching would have us top of the league with a healthy points margin.
63 years of watching the reds, my feelings are we will never win the PL or CL with OGS.
Without Bruno, we’d be in bottom half.
Without Bruno, we’d be in bottom half.
Alright I'll rephrase. How can he be convinced that there isn't a better manager out there other than manager who's only experience other than managing Molde is two years with us in which he has won nothing, has spent 130m on our defence and actually made it worse, has yet to match Mourinho points tally and position and won't this season either, gets tactically outclassed by teams that are going to get relegated, and keeps on playing the same system and tactics whether it's against City or West Brom.
And that's why mentioning Molde is relevant, if he had accomplished things at a top level before joining us one could say if he has managed to do so before then maybe he might with us, but he hasn't.
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Haha you would have to playing without a full deck to appoint Ole as your manager
He's not good enough, it's as simple as that. People can claim I hate the bloke etc. all they want. I love Ole, he's a legend here, but as a manager he simply isn't up to it. We will continue to go through these random spells of good form, that corresponds with our player's being in good form. We will then begin to struggle when our players' form drops as we have no sustainable system in place to improve the collective quality of the team. This is like what, our 5th time going through random great runs/performances, only to then go through barren runs too? It's becoming a pattern now.
He would have been an incredible manager back in the day imo, he is very clearly a great man manager and motivator, back when the sport wasn't so advanced. Nowadays though, you're simply going to be shown up as a top coach if you can't coach a progressive system. We are probably the only 'top' team, that is happy to continue playing this pragmatic style. The teams winning the top leagues and the CL are all playing dominant, progressive football.
He needs to hire some coaches who can assist him, or he will inevitably fail here
He would have been an incredible manager back in the day imo, he is very clearly a great man manager and motivator, back when the sport wasn't so advanced. Nowadays though, you're simply going to be shown up as a top coach if you can't coach a progressive system. We are probably the only 'top' team, that is happy to continue playing this pragmatic style. The teams winning the top leagues and the CL are all playing dominant, progressive football.
He needs to hire some coaches who can assist him, or he will inevitably fail here
Actual thinking humans saying we should appoint Max Allegri.
Bang on and admire that candidness rather than having blind faith
Think that's the plan . Ed will let Ole do the job unless we miss top 4. Then wait for Nagelsmann to be available and go for him.
The risk with that is , both Ole and Nagelsmann has entirely different ideas about they want to play and it will be a transition period again. If he has any kind of plan, just hire a DoF and get some players what would fit him or can be groomed atleast.
I think we would do well under Nagelsmann tbf. We have a lot of high energy, quick players. If anything, I think we could do very well. Players like Bruno, Fred, Marcus, Scotty etc. would excel in a fast, pressing system. I do agree that we need a DOF though. Mainly cause this board is clueless.
The ability to win the ball back up high up the pitch and the faster passing movements would also get the best out of players like Martial, Marcus and Mason too. I don't think it's anything surprise that arguably Martial's best and sustainable form (albeit not the most productive, though) came under a proper system in LVG.
I think the lack of noise about a contract for Solskjaer is certainly a telling sign. It means the owners are seeing how things unwind. If this was a few years ago Woodward would have folded and offered him a lengthier deal already. If he gets top four supposedly he'll be offered a two year extension that's what's being written in the papers so might not be credible but it sounds authentic.
Starting to become a trend, isn't it? So far, under Ole, we've been absolute trash except for a couple of months each season where we manage to play well for 10-12 games or so, salvaging just enough points that the season isn't a complete and utter write-off. But only just, and no more than that. But before and after that one string of good results, we're horrendously awful. Nevertheless, that one string of results convinces people that Ole is actually doing great and bla, bla, bla. I have no reason to believe this will change. We've seen no signs that it would. Are we going to give him a third season where we once more start off hopeless, get a dozen or so decent results around the middle, and then collapse again? Again?
If, in my personal line of work, I'm completely inept 75% of the time but occasionally manage to do well for a couple of months, I'm not keeping my job. I'll be sacked after two years at the very most. If I spend the considerable majority of my time at any given place of work doing far, far worse than even the most reasonable expectations, I'm out the door as soon as that trend becomes clear. I don't get third and fourth and fifth chances. At the end of the day, you can't get by on doing well a small portion of the time. If your mean level isn't at least decent, you're out. So far, under Ole, we've spent far, far more time being absolute rubbish than we have being good. That's not acceptable. It just isn't.
Under Ole, we've been disastrously awful 75% of the time and pretty good (but not really great) 25% of the time. That's not even slightly close to good enough. A manager whose team is completely hopeless more often than they're okay is not a good manager, and that's just the fecking reality of it. It's just the self-evident truth. Sorry, but it is. Given this club's finances and the performances that we've seen with our very own eyes that these players are capable of, this is simply unacceptable in the long term. It's just not working. A two-month run of good form each season does not change that fact. We're never going anywhere with Ole. He simply doesn't have the experience, and that's abundantly clear by now.
If we hadn't had the blind luck to sign Bruno at the high point of his career, we'd have been fumbling around at 9th place or so. Now that he has hit a spot of bad form, the entire squad has imploded and we're dropping points to teams that a lineup of this financial caliber should never even come close to struggling against. There is no excuse. We briefly looked okay because one player was having the best half-season of his life. Without that, Ole would be the laughing stock of the football world from the start of this season, as he is now fast becoming.
Can we stop with the crazy managerial appointments? Do we have to try cooky, unusual choices every fecking time? Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, Ole, all have been appointments with asterisks. Managers who had either never proven anything whatsoever or were known to be unpredictable and without recent success. When Ole inevitably gets the sack, can we please just appoint someone who has actually shown that they have what it takes within the last couple of goddamn years, instead of yet another experimental gamble? Jesus tittyfecking Christ. How many times in a row do we have to suffer through a manager whose credentials come with an undeniable "yes, but..."
If, in my personal line of work, I'm completely inept 75% of the time but occasionally manage to do well for a couple of months, I'm not keeping my job. I'll be sacked after two years at the very most. If I spend the considerable majority of my time at any given place of work doing far, far worse than even the most reasonable expectations, I'm out the door as soon as that trend becomes clear. I don't get third and fourth and fifth chances. At the end of the day, you can't get by on doing well a small portion of the time. If your mean level isn't at least decent, you're out. So far, under Ole, we've spent far, far more time being absolute rubbish than we have being good. That's not acceptable. It just isn't.
Under Ole, we've been disastrously awful 75% of the time and pretty good (but not really great) 25% of the time. That's not even slightly close to good enough. A manager whose team is completely hopeless more often than they're okay is not a good manager, and that's just the fecking reality of it. It's just the self-evident truth. Sorry, but it is. Given this club's finances and the performances that we've seen with our very own eyes that these players are capable of, this is simply unacceptable in the long term. It's just not working. A two-month run of good form each season does not change that fact. We're never going anywhere with Ole. He simply doesn't have the experience, and that's abundantly clear by now.
If we hadn't had the blind luck to sign Bruno at the high point of his career, we'd have been fumbling around at 9th place or so. Now that he has hit a spot of bad form, the entire squad has imploded and we're dropping points to teams that a lineup of this financial caliber should never even come close to struggling against. There is no excuse. We briefly looked okay because one player was having the best half-season of his life. Without that, Ole would be the laughing stock of the football world from the start of this season, as he is now fast becoming.
Can we stop with the crazy managerial appointments? Do we have to try cooky, unusual choices every fecking time? Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, Ole, all have been appointments with asterisks. Managers who had either never proven anything whatsoever or were known to be unpredictable and without recent success. When Ole inevitably gets the sack, can we please just appoint someone who has actually shown that they have what it takes within the last couple of goddamn years, instead of yet another experimental gamble? Jesus tittyfecking Christ. How many times in a row do we have to suffer through a manager whose credentials come with an undeniable "yes, but..."
Ole has done well considering his limitations as a manager. But the problem is that he isn't at the level to take us to the heights we need to reach. Scrapping for/getting top 4, sure. But in order to become a genuinely top class side, we need better.
Under him, I see us continuing to be this hard working and dangerous counter attacking team, but one which doesn't have the tactical excellence or understood of possession play, needed to win big trophies.
Under him, I see us continuing to be this hard working and dangerous counter attacking team, but one which doesn't have the tactical excellence or understood of possession play, needed to win big trophies.
Surely there are some super-nerdy (in a good way) tactics-genius coaches out there who can't man-manage to save their lives.
Find one of them and between that person and Ole, we'd be in decent shape.
Find one of them and between that person and Ole, we'd be in decent shape.
While I largely agree with your larger point, I do think you're being a bit harsh here. I would say it's generally been 50/50 under Ole. When he first joined we had a good couple of months, then followed it with a poor couple of months. Second season we had a poor first half of the season and a good second half. This season we started poorly (understandable and most teams in our position of having no preseason had the same), then proceeded to do enough to get up to 1st, but have now look to be in another poor period.
Some valid points but makes you wonder what Woody would have done had we not completed the comeback in Paris, if Ole was a proactive and not reactive manager he would have realised two years ago he needed proper coaching alongside him to succeed but too late now.
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Well the big picture is that we have improved since last year and have gained significant ground on the two top teams. In either case his position should be evaluated at the end of the season.
Also, i dont get why you are so keen on ripping up the book again and rolling the dice yet again. There is no guaratee that the names being thrown around are going to do well
And yes managers can of course influence games, but again its a silly thing to judge them on imo. Also if in game management is that important, Ole is one of the best since no one makes as many comebacks as we do.
I can see him wanting to move on if we dont win anything soon. Hes already stalling on a better contract according to media last week. He has stated he wants to win the big trophies. Thats not happening this season.
Sorry. There clearly is... but the fear is what do these managers bring. It’s a new project if that makes sense and as far as I’m concerned Pochettino fitted like a glove. A bit like how Allegri and Tuchel were made for Chelsea’s squad.
Which managers is out there now that’s going to come in play good football and identify that we only need a CDM, RW and either a CB or RB. I say 3 as we won’t sign more that three players.
We just need a director of football with some common sense.
It wasn’t hard to improve from last year when you sign VDB, Cavani and Telles added onto the fact we also brought in Bruno. The guy is not out here turning water into wine.
I mean then add into the pot Liverpool have broken down and Chelsea’s manager buckled like we all knew he would. Just didn’t know when.
He’s only outdoing himself nothing else.
I can see him moving soon too. Especially if we are going to give Ole a new contract. Barcelona would be a good move for him. But doubt they have the money.
Its a forum. If everybody did as you said there wouldnt be a forum or entertainment. Its just a bit of fun and it isnt going to change anything. Ole will still be here until the end of the season at least. Just enjoy it, or dont read it.
With regards to us hammering them, it was no different to Spurs hammering us. Man sent off, ship 6 goals with 10 men. Southampton then went to 9 men and they shipped 3 more quickly after.
So anybody that uses that hammering as a reason why Ole is better, would do well to remember the Spurs game. Except we have a much better team and squad than Spurs and especially Southampton. Our 6-1 loss was a total embarrassment.
Without Hasenhuttl that Southampton team would be nowhere. It's a poor team on paper.
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Unfortunately for us, I think one of my predictions might come to pass.
I said this when we were starting to win a few games, but my fear was that Ole would do enough to keep his job for now, whilst failing in the next few years to progress the team. Meanwhile the likes of Poch etc, genuine candidates, will be hoovered up by other clubs.
Two of the managers I would have given a chance here are now gone in Poch and Tuchel. Ole will get another year but I think we'll see the likes of Nagelsmann and perhaps Hasenhuttl signed up by other clubs before the shit hits the fan here.
We'll be left scraping the barrel.
I said this when we were starting to win a few games, but my fear was that Ole would do enough to keep his job for now, whilst failing in the next few years to progress the team. Meanwhile the likes of Poch etc, genuine candidates, will be hoovered up by other clubs.
Two of the managers I would have given a chance here are now gone in Poch and Tuchel. Ole will get another year but I think we'll see the likes of Nagelsmann and perhaps Hasenhuttl signed up by other clubs before the shit hits the fan here.
We'll be left scraping the barrel.
This. Well said.
Ole gets a free pass from a lot of people because he was a good player and won us the treble, which was great. He should be judged solely on his managerial skills. He got Cardiff relegated, then struggled in the championship. That was the only barometer he should have been judged at.
Saying that I also understood Deadwood Woodward for bringing him in as the interim manager when there was still half a season to play. He could have just brought Phelan back. The fact he couldnt leave it at that until the end of the season is what went wrong.
Im saying all this even though we are 2nd in the league as this is as good as it gets.
We got lucky with a fantastic buy, which we nearly fecked up. Bruno was available from the summer, but we wasnt interested. Luckily neither were Spurs. We are a one man team. When Bruno is at his best we fly. God help us if he got injured and missed a few games.
Imo we will never win the big prize with Ole as there is little evidence of a style of play, in game changes and tactics are mainly shit and we rely on one mans brilliance all the time. One week he says were not in a title race, then the next we wont let them run away with it. If he cant make up his mind how do the players react to that?
Him saying we weren't in a title race when we were first after 20 games said everything about the manager.
He could see a month into the future.
Best case scenario we win the fa cup or Europa and get top 4 then we amicably part ways.
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