Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Look how bringing in experienced managers has worked out. Of course it’s risky but he has improved us, surely no one cannot see that?

Just because prior experienced managers failed, doesn't mean we should forgo experienced managers in the future.

And yes I do think we've improved in 12 months because of our good 2nd half of the season and I like our young core.

Still I worry about our ability to challenge with Ole. I actually think our squad is somewhat comparable to Liverpool in terms of quality. I don't think we're that far off them and hopefully the gap next season isn't as big as it was this season.
 
Think we have to let Ole get on with culling this squad. He has got us into the CL, but there is still work to do. If he gets the players that fit the Manchester United profile, young and ambitious but then fails he will be gone. You would hope they are watching Nagelsmann.
 
If you think another manager can improve it even more, I don't think that's unusual at all.

Correct.

Think back to ‘unpopular’ appointment decisions over the years and how foolish that criticism was in hindsight: Adkins out, Pochettino in; Pearson out, Ranieri in etc.

A manager ‘doing well’ shouldn’t exempt them from being relieved of their duties if a better manager becomes available. It happens with players every season. It’s the harsh reality of football at the top level.

In saying all that, I’m still pro-Solskjaer and think he’s doing a good job, all things considered. I just wish we were more ruthless in games and he didn’t favour some of the first XI so blindly, e.g. Rashford starting and playing practically every minute no matter how poor he plays. Cut that shit out, please, and trust the squad.
 
Just because prior experienced managers failed, doesn't mean we should forgo experienced managers in the future.

And yes I do think we've improved in 12 months because of our good 2nd half of the season and I like our young core.

Still I worry about our ability to challenge with Ole. I actually think our squad is somewhat comparable to Liverpool in terms of quality. I don't think we're that far off them and hopefully the gap next season isn't as big as it was this season.
This is a far too positive and unrealistic view of our squad tbh.
 
This is a far too positive(And unrealistic imo)view of our squad tbh.

I mean our 'MMM' trio outscored Salah, Mane and Firmino. We also have a midfielder that's almost as productive as a forward in Bruno. Something they don't have.

Our midfield has more attacking quality, but their midfielders have a different role to ours, so it's apples and oranges I suppose.

They have better full-backs than ours and Van Dijk is better than any CB we have.

Alisson is probably better than De Gea now, but I don't think they're too far off.

They don't have that much quality on the bench(but neither do we).

Don't really think it's as ludicrous as people think.

Main difference is they have a much better manager.
 
I'm not part of the avid Ole Out brigade, but the defense of him is just ludicrous.

He's looked like he got it wrong a few times this season, but yesterday was a day he was quite exposed.

The lack of ambition and ruthlessness that this fanbase is beginning to show in favour of loyalty to a former player while ignoring his faults is just plain stupid. Nobody wants to criticize him as if he's perfect. Yet the same people will be sitting in any thread regarding Man City screaming Pep got it wrong, while doing the opposite for Ole.

His lack of presence on that touchline game after game and his in game management is also quite concerning.

He'll get this coming season to prove himself, but I'm becoming more unconvinced that he can perform to the standards of the role that Manchester United require.

But we will see.
 
Main difference is they have a much better manager.

They do have a better manager no doubt but Ole has done very well. 3rd in the league shows he can be and deserves to be at the right end of the table and even with another manager, does anyone on here actually think we could have beaten city or Liverpool? Of course not.
 
I think we were class for large parts of the game both yesterday and against FCK. He can't score the goals himself, but he sure set us up to put plenty of balls in the net. It's unfathomable that we couldn't score a single goal from open play in either game, and I'm sure he's raging about that as well. He was a clinical finisher himself, and I'm sure he's gonna put a lot of effort in trying to impose that on the you trio up front before and during next season.

He should probably have made some subs earlier in the game yesteday, but I have no clue about who he should've put on. Ighalo maybe? I don't know. And that really says a lot about the players available from the bench, not Ole.

He's done well this season. Very well, even.
Sure, he still has a lot to improve on, but so does the players and other key people (Woodie, for example).
I have no doubts they will all improve in 20/21 (the key players and Ole, that is), and that we'll get a few new faces in to help us even further.
 
I mean I did say somewhat comparable...
Problem is it's miles apart mate.

I'm not a wump, a pessimist but they have a much better squad than ours. They have a squad that are on their prime and very consistent. Us a very young and inconsistent one. And consistency is what distinct good and class players.

Imo the only class player we currently have is Bruno. While they have basically a full XI of class players. Bar maybe 2-3 that are good only I think. The difference is huge mate. And I don't even want to look to the bench.
 
I thought not getting top 4 is a sackable offense. Oh well, anything goes I guess.
The season was a bit of an anamoly. We would have convincingly finished outside top 4(even top 6) with that point tally.

Fair point - doesn't matter , we still have CL and so he can stay. Just can't see how are we going to improve next year.
 
I mean our 'MMM' trio outscored Salah, Mane and Firmino. We also have a midfielder that's almost as productive as a forward in Bruno. Something they don't have.

Our midfield has more attacking quality, but their midfielders have a different role to ours, so it's apples and oranges I suppose.
Just firstly does Ole not get any credit for this ? Our forwards are out scoring the champions but this has nothing to do with the manager ? Greenwood has been perfectly managed by Ole and a ton of other managers would have never gave the kid a chance or would have ran him into the ground, also Martial best season has been under Ole.

Pool have a midfield that yes has a different objective but importantly can be replaced by similar style players from the bench which is something we don't have. We are one major injury away from having again a bang average midfield. This is down to many reasons but the biggest one imo is that Klopp has had multiple transfer windows which can only happen if you give a manager time.

They have better full-backs than ours and Van Dijk is better than any CB we have.

Alisson is probably better than De Gea now, but I don't think they're too far off.
Annoyingly their entire defence is better than ours at both attacking and defending(They have the best defense in the league). Which some of the blame should be leveled at Ole but again Klopp has took years to make his defense. With United back line there are two Ole players(Maguire and Wan Bissaka), the rest are products from former managers and their all made of glass(Something which can't be said of Liverpool team). The difference in class between the two isn't just the individual players but also time. just like the midfield Klopp over the last 5 years has hand picked and molded Liverpools defence.

There's a massive difference tbh.

As for the keepers Alisson is a better goalie the De Gea and by some distance. I'm pretty sure De Gea is second in the league in terms of goal keeping errors, he cost us the semi final against Chelsea and there's a more than decent argument that he is now on the decline.

Main difference is they have a much better manager.
I guess the biggest complement one can give Ole is comparing his team to the
champions after his first season. While of course Klopp is a better manager it's worth remembering his first 3 seasons with Liverpool - 8th, 4th and again 4th. (Not partially impressive given they finished 2nd two years earlier with Rodgers.).

Comparing current day Klopp who's had years of development with his team and multiple transfer windows to Ole first season isn't really useful imo.
 
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Just firstly does Ole not get any credit for this ? Our forwards are out scoring the champions but this has nothing to do with the manager ? Greenwood has been perfectly managed by Ole and a ton of other managers would have never gave the kid a chance or would have ran him into the ground, also Martial best season has been under Ole.

Pool have a midfield that yes has a different objective but importantly can be replaced by similar style players from the bench which is something we don't have. We are one major injury away from having again a bang average midfield. This is down to many reasons but the biggest one imo is that Klopp has had multiple transfer windows which can only happen if you give a manager time.


Annoyingly their entire defence is better than ours at both attacking and defending(They have the best defense in the league). Which some of the blame should be leveled at Ole but again Klopp has took years to make his defense. With United back line there are two Ole players(Maguire and Wan Bissaka), the rest are products from former managers and their all made of glass(Something which can't be said of Liverpool team). The difference in class between the two isn't just the individual players but also time. just like the midfield Klopp over the last 5 years has hand picked and molded Liverpools defence.

There's a massive difference tbh.

As for the keepers Alisson is a better goalie the De Gea and by some distance. I'm pretty sure De Gea is second in the league in terms of goal keeping errors, he cost us the semi final against Chelsea and there's a more than decent argument that he is now on the decline.


I guess the biggest complement one can give Ole is comparing his team to the
champions after his first season. While of course Klopp is a better manager it's worth remembering his first 3 seasons with Liverpool - 8th, 4th and again 4th. (Not partially impressive given they finished 2nd two years earlier with Rodgers.).

Comparing current day Klopp who's had years of development with his team and multiple transfer windows to Ole first season isn't really useful imo.

Really good post this. Agree with literally every word.
 
The season was a bit of an anamoly. We would have convincingly finished outside top 4(even top 6) with that point tally.

Fair point - doesn't matter , we still have CL and so he can stay. Just can't see how are we going to improve next year.
We would have but we didnt, strange point really.

As for improvement I agree. He does deserve to stay imo.
 
How can it be his fault when he set up a team that got over 20 shots on target over two games?

The tactics obviously worked, it's just that he himself is not allowed to put the ball in the net.

I get it that you guys are disappointed and whatevs but focus on the real culprits, the attackers missing sitters, or praise the opposing GKs for having their games of their lives.
Team made shots, ergo manager good. He set up a team that got over 20 shots on target over two games, yes. And no, he can't literally throw the ball in the net for them, but there are other aspects that people just flat out ignore.

What happened after the initial 15 minutes of the second half last night, after that flurry of chances? Absolutely feck all. We barely created any opportunities after that and lost control of the game to Sevilla who brought on fresh players, which ended up winning them the game. Alright, so it's 1-1 at that point, fair enough. But what happened after we conceded? Did the players react in a good way? Did they go on the offensive and create new opportunities to equalise? No they didn't, they didn't create anything at all, so why did it take Ole a further ten minutes (until there were three minutes remaining of the 90 minutes) to make any sort of substitution to try and change things? It clearly wasn't happening for the ones on the pitch, and everyone could see that it wasn't happening for them after 65 minutes. So why wait 20 minutes to make a sub, with a goal for the opposition in there as well?

If everyone can see that it's not happening for the ones on the pitch, why wouldn't you change things up? Especially against a team that's brought on fresh legs already? Why would you persist with the same team that has had poor luck with their finishing? Why would you repeatedly smash your head against a brick wall and not bother to even try to change the approach?

I'm not expecting any sort of answer here, because if you're trying to bring any sort of nuance to the discussion beyond "team lost, Ole shit", "team won, Ole great" or "team lost, Ole great, players shit", but you can at least consider if there's more nuance to it than "Ole plays players, players shoot and miss, Ole not to blame"
 
Team made shots, ergo manager good. He set up a team that got over 20 shots on target over two games, yes. And no, he can't literally throw the ball in the net for them, but there are other aspects that people just flat out ignore.

What happened after the initial 15 minutes of the second half last night, after that flurry of chances? Absolutely feck all. We barely created any opportunities after that and lost control of the game to Sevilla who brought on fresh players, which ended up winning them the game. Alright, so it's 1-1 at that point, fair enough. But what happened after we conceded? Did the players react in a good way? Did they go on the offensive and create new opportunities to equalise? No they didn't, they didn't create anything at all, so why did it take Ole a further ten minutes (until there were three minutes remaining of the 90 minutes) to make any sort of substitution to try and change things? It clearly wasn't happening for the ones on the pitch, and everyone could see that it wasn't happening for them after 65 minutes. So why wait 20 minutes to make a sub, with a goal for the opposition in there as well?

If everyone can see that it's not happening for the ones on the pitch, why wouldn't you change things up? Especially against a team that's brought on fresh legs already? Why would you persist with the same team that has had poor luck with their finishing? Why would you repeatedly smash your head against a brick wall and not bother to even try to change the approach?

I'm not expecting any sort of answer here, because if you're trying to bring any sort of nuance to the discussion beyond "team lost, Ole shit", "team won, Ole great" or "team lost, Ole great, players shit", but you can at least consider if there's more nuance to it than "Ole plays players, players shoot and miss, Ole not to blame"
So the team created all those chances and Ole is to be credited because it's his team selection, "his team". Okay, then why the hell hasn't he sorted out a defence that has been utter rubbish from day one of the season and has even reduced a class keeper into a complete liability. It is so obvious we still require two if not three central defenders who can actually play football, head a ball without fouling the attacker, pass the ball forward quickly to a team mate instead of getting closed down and giving the ball away, and who have just a little bit of pace when needed. As I understand it Maguire was brought in as this great header of the ball, what has gone wrong? Are we playing with a different type of ball now? He has hardly put his forehead on a ball this season, top, side, back of the head, the ball can go any where and that's when he manages to get off the deck. And Lindelof well I won't even go there. Can't really judge the fullbacks when the two in the centre are so lacking.
Finally would someone explain why James is still a Utd player, why on earth did we ever sign this non-leaguer?
 
They do have a better manager no doubt but Ole has done very well. 3rd in the league shows he can be and deserves to be at the right end of the table and even with another manager, does anyone on here actually think we could have beaten city or Liverpool? Of course not.

Not this past season, but I don't think the gap should be as big as it was for the following season.
 
Can't really claim to be swayed to either the 'ole in' or 'ole out' brigade. I honestly believe we got away with one this season thanks to spurs,Chelsea and arsenal's ineptitude and somehow fell into 3rd place. I really hope ole suceeds here but can't help but feel we may well be having the same discussions about him and his ability this time next year. My main concern is his lack of in play change,the substitutions yesterday astounded me.Then to come out afterwards and comment on how tired the players were while not making a change till the 87th minute was baffling. Anyone can see rashford has been awful since the restart but somehow he plays almost every minute of every game,if he's not right then rest him. I'd like to think after being ran into the ground pre injury we may of managed him abit better. Just looks as though he has his favourites and they shall play no matter what.people may say we lack depth which is true but can anyone say rashford is worth his place on current form? These decisions could be oles undoing.
 
Team made shots, ergo manager good. He set up a team that got over 20 shots on target over two games, yes. And no, he can't literally throw the ball in the net for them, but there are other aspects that people just flat out ignore.

What happened after the initial 15 minutes of the second half last night, after that flurry of chances? Absolutely feck all. We barely created any opportunities after that and lost control of the game to Sevilla who brought on fresh players, which ended up winning them the game. Alright, so it's 1-1 at that point, fair enough. But what happened after we conceded? Did the players react in a good way? Did they go on the offensive and create new opportunities to equalise? No they didn't, they didn't create anything at all, so why did it take Ole a further ten minutes (until there were three minutes remaining of the 90 minutes) to make any sort of substitution to try and change things? It clearly wasn't happening for the ones on the pitch, and everyone could see that it wasn't happening for them after 65 minutes. So why wait 20 minutes to make a sub, with a goal for the opposition in there as well?

If everyone can see that it's not happening for the ones on the pitch, why wouldn't you change things up? Especially against a team that's brought on fresh legs already? Why would you persist with the same team that has had poor luck with their finishing? Why would you repeatedly smash your head against a brick wall and not bother to even try to change the approach?

I'm not expecting any sort of answer here, because if you're trying to bring any sort of nuance to the discussion beyond "team lost, Ole shit", "team won, Ole great" or "team lost, Ole great, players shit", but you can at least consider if there's more nuance to it than "Ole plays players, players shoot and miss, Ole not to blame"
My point is that it was a close game, as it is always going to be in a semi final, and the team and tactics that Ole set upp gave us plenty of opportunities to win the game. That's why I am generally happy with his performance. Could he have done things differently? Sure. But did he get the majority right? Absolutely.
 
My point is that it was a close game, as it is always going to be in a semi final, and the team and tactics that Ole set upp gave us plenty of opportunities to win the game. That's why I am generally happy with his performance. Could he have done things differently? Sure. But did he get the majority right? Absolutely.
It gave us opportunities but when those started going away he didn’t change a thing. For me, he got two thirds right. When the last third came and everything went wrong he just hoped that what he had done up until that point would start working differently than it had done before.

For me, getting two thirds of a game right isn’t good enough if the ambition is to challenge for titles.
 
As I said in the other thread, had we won (which we should have) then most of the nonsense like he was being exposed, he should be sacked etc. wouldn't be seen. He deserves another season whether people like it or not.
 
good season overall, the club were in free-fall when Ole came in and he's managed to arrest the slide and create a platform to build upon

deserves the fans backing but unfortunately he won't get it from some

I'm not 100% convinced by him yet either (in terms of winning big titles), but the signs are pretty damn positive
 
As I said in the other thread, had we won (which we should have) then most of the nonsense like he was being exposed, he should be sacked etc. wouldn't be seen. He deserves another season whether people like it or not.

Agreed.

However; he needs to be backed.
 


And people here think we have a similar quality to Liverpool side . Looking at this what Ole has achieved is really good. No Pogba for almost more than half a season, no bruno in the first half of the season, Martial injured for 2 months, shaw also injured for good amount of period, Maticn injured in the first half of the season, Rashford injured at a cruicial point of time. Yet he has managed to finish 3rd ahead of the pack.
 
I absolutely love watching the current United team play, excited by it - two things I was never able to say about other post-Fergie teams.

That's all that needs to be said.
 
Agreed.

However; he needs to be backed.
Absolutely, he must be backed and this is where I hope he doesn't backtrack come October saying he trusts the squad he had especially after showing little trust in latter part of the season.
 


Looking at this what Ole has achieved is really good. No Pogba for almost more than half a season, no bruno in the first half of the season, Martial injured for 2 months, shaw also injured for good amount of period, Maticn injured in the first half of the season, Rashford injured at a cruicial point of time. Yet he has managed to finish 3rd ahead of the pack.


Yep. I’m no Ole Fanboy either and I’d agree with anyone saying he still has lots to learn but he has done a fantastic job in the circumstances. Any doubt that he fully deserves our support is ridiculous, he’s absolutely earned the right to be given the chance to take us into next season.
 
But how does anyone know they could improve it more? You don’t cancel an upward curve, that would be completely stupid.
Well, it depends on whether that upward curve is obvious. Technically, Van Gaal was on an upward curve in 2016: we did better in the second half of the Premier League than in the first and we won the FA Cup - but he still got fired.

Ole's been very streaky so far: brilliant start, good form for a couple of months, then a brutal collapse followed by a terrible first half of the new season. Then once again came a streak of good form that saved this season from being the worst of the post-Fergie campaigns and elevated it to being merely an average one.

The downturn in performances since the Southampton game has been put down to tiredness - but it could be the start of yet another terrible streak. We'll see next season. For now, the jury is very much out on whether a Solskjaer team can be consistent over a longer period.
 
For now, the jury is very much out on whether a Solskjaer team can be consistent over a longer period.

This is the next phase of this teams development. Under Ole, we always start well after a break.

Last season start of the campaign looked good 4 games in we looked tired and there was no press no rhythm to the play.
Post Winter break we looked sharp, played well won a few games and then came Covid.
Post lockdown we came back firing for the first 4 games and then the same old.

I want to see the team to perform at the same level for 10-15 games not 3/4.
 
This is the next phase of this teams development. Under Ole, we always start well after a break.

Last season start of the campaign looked good 4 games in we looked tired and there was no press no rhythm to the play.
Post Winter break we looked sharp, played well won a few games and then came Covid.
Post lockdown we came back firing for the first 4 games and then the same old.

I want to see the team to perform at the same level for 10-15 games not 3/4.

You might say it's his first big test...
 
So the team created all those chances and Ole is to be credited because it's his team selection, "his team". Okay, then why the hell hasn't he sorted out a defence that has been utter rubbish from day one of the season and has even reduced a class keeper into a complete liability. It is so obvious we still require two if not three central defenders who can actually play football, head a ball without fouling the attacker, pass the ball forward quickly to a team mate instead of getting closed down and giving the ball away, and who have just a little bit of pace when needed. As I understand it Maguire was brought in as this great header of the ball, what has gone wrong? Are we playing with a different type of ball now? He has hardly put his forehead on a ball this season, top, side, back of the head, the ball can go any where and that's when he manages to get off the deck. And Lindelof well I won't even go there. Can't really judge the fullbacks when the two in the centre are so lacking.
Finally would someone explain why James is still a Utd player, why on earth did we ever sign this non-leaguer?
Utter rubbish and yet it was statistically the third best in the league, and only conceded 3 more than the vaunted Liverpool defence? Compared to the positively mid-table defence he had before? Would a shit defence have kept out Pep's City twice? Or keep two clean sheets against Chelsea?

As for the rest of that sorry post, you need to actually look at the stats and you'll find that they disprove almost every single one of your inane ramblings. You don't go from conceding 50+ goals to 35 in the space of a single season if there hasn't been at least SOME improvement, if not a metric feck tonne of it - it's a more than 35% improvement, ffs!
 
It gave us opportunities but when those started going away he didn’t change a thing. For me, he got two thirds right. When the last third came and everything went wrong he just hoped that what he had done up until that point would start working differently than it had done before.

For me, getting two thirds of a game right isn’t good enough if the ambition is to challenge for titles.
I mean, considering he himself has said that the optimum time to bring on a substitute is at least 20 mins before the end should tell you that he knows that he should be doing as such. Let alone his own history of being in such situations.

Rightly, or wrongly, he does not feel he can trust the players he has available on the bench. And tbf, I can see his point considering that many of those exact same players had him close to the brink in the eyes of the internet and social media while we had to contend with injuries, etc.
 
So the team created all those chances and Ole is to be credited because it's his team selection, "his team". Okay, then why the hell hasn't he sorted out a defence that has been utter rubbish from day one of the season and has even reduced a class keeper into a complete liability. It is so obvious we still require two if not three central defenders who can actually play football, head a ball without fouling the attacker, pass the ball forward quickly to a team mate instead of getting closed down and giving the ball away, and who have just a little bit of pace when needed. As I understand it Maguire was brought in as this great header of the ball, what has gone wrong? Are we playing with a different type of ball now? He has hardly put his forehead on a ball this season, top, side, back of the head, the ball can go any where and that's when he manages to get off the deck. And Lindelof well I won't even go there. Can't really judge the fullbacks when the two in the centre are so lacking.
Finally would someone explain why James is still a Utd player, why on earth did we ever sign this non-leaguer?
Is your surname Castles by any chance?

Are you still angry that Ole replaced a client of your master Mendes? :))
 
So the team created all those chances and Ole is to be credited because it's his team selection, "his team". Okay, then why the hell hasn't he sorted out a defence that has been utter rubbish from day one of the season and has even reduced a class keeper into a complete liability. It is so obvious we still require two if not three central defenders who can actually play football, head a ball without fouling the attacker, pass the ball forward quickly to a team mate instead of getting closed down and giving the ball away, and who have just a little bit of pace when needed. As I understand it Maguire was brought in as this great header of the ball, what has gone wrong? Are we playing with a different type of ball now? He has hardly put his forehead on a ball this season, top, side, back of the head, the ball can go any where and that's when he manages to get off the deck. And Lindelof well I won't even go there. Can't really judge the fullbacks when the two in the centre are so lacking.
Finally would someone explain why James is still a Utd player, why on earth did we ever sign this non-leaguer?

What a pile of tripe.
 
I mean, considering he himself has said that the optimum time to bring on a substitute is at least 20 mins before the end should tell you that he knows that he should be doing as such. Let alone his own history of being in such situations.

Rightly, or wrongly, he does not feel he can trust the players he has available on the bench. And tbf, I can see his point considering that many of those exact same players had him close to the brink in the eyes of the internet and social media while we had to contend with injuries, etc.
Well, obviously I can only go by what I see during the games, but for me it was quite obvious that Rashford was having an incredibly poor game. Not only were things not coming off for him, he was ruining attacking opportunities by trying to be Ronaldo and force his way out of his slump instead of reverting to the basics. I'd have hooked him after 60 minutes and brought on Ighalo and pushed Martial to the wing, or brought Mata on to keep possession if I wanted to keep Martial up front.

Obviously, that wasn't something that Solskjaer saw as being feasible, despite Mata changing the game just a week before.

And contending with injuries isn't something that happens independently of the manager. It's obviously partly down to the injury proneness of the players but it's also an indication of what happens on the training pitch and how much rotation occurs during games. Have we used more than 14 players since the restart? He obviously didn't know (or ignored) the physical capabilities of his squad and was punished by going for all the trophies and only getting third while being eliminated in the semis of both the FA cup and the EL.

I'm all for Ole getting to continue his project as long as he gets us into the CL but I have doubts over him being successful in any meaningful way beyond getting top 4 and maybe a domestic cup here and there. I just don't think he has the tactical acumen and is way too reliant on individual quality. I've not seen evidence of him consistently being able to change games in his team's favour, and I definitely think there are many better managers out there who would get better results with the same players. I do think that he has the right idea as to what type of player benefits the squad even if I think AWB will prove to be a mistake long-term, and a manager succeeding him within five years would have a much more solid base to build from than he himself had.
 
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